全 45 件のコメント

[–]asherdi 26ポイント27ポイント  (0子コメント)

There are good reasons given here as for why bestiality should be illegal. However, I suspect the reason why it's actually illegal is simply that it disgusts people.

[–]amozetryn 41ポイント42ポイント  (26子コメント)

Because animals can't give verbal consent. Humans also can't completely gauge whether or not the animal is in any discomfort, so they throw the entire thing under a blanket of illegality.

I can't personally condone or condemn the act, but I can't say I'm not curious.

[–]Stabbytehstabber 10ポイント11ポイント  (23子コメント)

Well, it's not exactly like they consent to be eaten?

[–]jaaykidd 13ポイント14ポイント  (12子コメント)

Animals don't suffer if slaughtered humanely though. Thats the difference.

[–]WYBJO 4ポイント5ポイント  (11子コメント)

Does humane apply to artificially maintaining a population of over 9 billion individuals, most of whom rarely see the light of day and live short lives plagued by disease and for whom half of their children are killed within days of their birth by mass grinding?

Cause I kind of feel like "humane slaughter" doesn't really cover the scope of the issue.

[–]Bigfrie192 4ポイント5ポイント  (10子コメント)

That's the difference though, /u/jaaykidd said animals don't suffer if they're slaughtered "humanely". What you described isn't humane, although it happens.

[–]WYBJO -4ポイント-3ポイント  (9子コメント)

Mass grinding is an industry standard practice for culling male chicks. Battery cages and warehouses are industry standards for egg and meat poultry housing. It doesn't just "happen". Its the majority of cases.

But even outside that the point is that a critters death being swift and relatively painless doesn't establish any sort of consistent framework for humane treatment. People face criminal animal neglect charges for cat hoarding where no slaughter is involved. Extrapolated to the billions strong populations of food animals the entire thing is pretty grim.

Which is fine if you don't think humans have any sort of moral obligation to spare animals from suffering, but then dog fighting and sheep fucking or whatever should be legal.

[–]dunceinator 4ポイント5ポイント  (8子コメント)

then dog fighting and sheep fucking or whatever should be legal.

No, No it fucking shouldn't you imbecilic cunt.

[–]Eat_The_Muffin 9ポイント10ポイント  (6子コメント)

Would you rather be stunned and killed right now without realising or raped every day for the rest of your life?

[–]amozetryn 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

No, but those who ARE eaten are usually bred specifically for it.

[–]bearjuani 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

So if we bred people solely for killing, that would be less morally wrong?

[–]amozetryn 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think it'd only be less moral because we don't give as much resources as other animals for the amount of time we're alive. Google says a 1-year old cow can be 700 pounds. That's significantly more mass.

[–]not_perfect_yet 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

While what you say is true, that is hardly the reason. I mean, we can pretend like it is, but really it's because the silent majority of the governing body of any country ever finds it disgusting and or wrong.

The counterexample would be that we're treating animals in all kinds of ways that are not in their interest or involve not "getting their consent".

Finding it wrong and making a law out of it is not wrong or a bad justification in my opinion.

Other justifications for laws like the golden rule don't exactly apply to other species or things even more removed from us. You can choose to feel empathy even for inanimate objects but most people will find it weird because they don't.

tl;dr: It's line drawing business. When you draw a line sometimes people will complain that you drew it where you did. It's not entirely logical and it doesn't have to be.

[–]Lectovai 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know for a fact that breeders shove a vial of sperm into mare vaginas shoulder deep to inseminate them.

[–]NBRPony 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's illegal because the majority of society views sexual relations with nonhuman animals to be gross, and unnatural. It's a morality crime more than anything else. The consent argument is a cop out considering all the fucked up things humans do to animals legally. Just the fact that animals are considered property highlights how hypocritical anti-bestiality laws are. Take halal meat for example. The animal must be conscious as its throat is cut and hung upside down to bleed out. This is a horrific death for any creature, but it's perfectly legal, and just one example of many acceptable abuses folks can do to their property. God forbid someone sticks their dick in an animal, or let's an animal penetrate them, all with the intent to provide the animal pleasure. Killing an animal in a horrible manner is perfectly fine, but loving/sharing intimacy with an animal is a major offense. IMO if the animal is free to makes its own choice as to whether or not it wants to participate, and there is no harm done to the animal, then there shouldn't be any crime committed.

[–]Puffymumpkins 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, but most animals have sex with their own species.

[–]SilverMars 5ポイント6ポイント  (16子コメント)

/u/amozetryn has got it. This'll sound morbid, but if we're being honest, there are ways for a dog or horse to let you know they're not into it. Both can fucking kill you.

I'm not an animal fucker, but I see no problem with someone doing it as long as the animal has a way to show discomfort.

[–]feioo 21ポイント22ポイント  (7子コメント)

I think you're underestimating the power of operant conditioning, which is basically what all people do to pets in order to cohabitate with them.

Think of it this way - a man legally adopts a baby girl. He is not related to her by blood in any way. For her entire childhood and adolescence, he does not touch her in anything approaching a sexual manner. However, he homeschools her, and when it comes time for her to learn sex ed, he just includes a little bit about it being common - even normal - for girls to have sex with father figures. He gives her a full education, but isolates her from anyone who might teach her that sex with a parent is abnormal or wrong. When she becomes interested in porn, he puts filters on the internet so father-daughter incest porn is basically dropped in her lap. However, he never lays a finger on her. If she shows interest in him, he explains that they absolutely can't have sex until she is legal age, but doesn't otherwise discourage it.

On the day she becomes legal age, they have sex - which she willingly initiates. But did she really choose to? Was she ever capable of deciding for herself? As far as she knows, she is completely consenting - but that count since he's been conditioning her her whole life?

That's what bestiality (and a whole bunch of other abusive practices) really looks like. Dogs and horses may be capable of hurting or even killing people who harm them, but most have been trained since they were babies to tolerate pretty much anything humans want. They don't really ever start out on an even playing field.

[–]SilverMars 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's actually an amazing point.

[–]ginger_beer_m 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

In your example above, can the father be put on court for anything?

[–]lizcoco 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would imagine so, yes. I'm not a legal expert so I don't wanna spew my stupidity on why because it may be incorrect, but I do believe that this is something that a man could be convicted for.

[–]Eat_The_Muffin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think they would be charged the same as any other parent grooming their child for sex

[–]fastenmaw 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Your logic says that police dogs, service animals, and sporting animals are abused. Some can be, but I believe a lot of them enjoy themselves. Simple minds, simple lives.

[–]feioo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, that's where you get down to the fine lines of the argument. My reply was specifically in response to the idea of "animals are capable of dissenting so if they don't, they're okay with it". If they're trained to tolerate all the weird things pet owners do to them as a matter of course (nail trimming, taking temperatures, etc.), then they're really not able to choose to dissent.

I'm not saying that all conditioning is bad. Far from it - most types of conditioning are absolutely beneficial and necessary for animals and humans to work together. But in my mind there's a very definite difference between an animal being conditioned for utilitarian purposes - whether it's trained for a specific task or simply taught to live by the rules of a human-dominated world - and animals conditioned to allow people to use them for sexual gratification. But that's me.

[–]amozetryn 10ポイント11ポイント  (3子コメント)

I've heard there are some people who drug their dogs to have sex with them. If you're willing to admit to YOURSELF that your dog will not consent and you do it anyway, you're a bit more fucked up than just wanting to have sex with a dog.

[–]SilverMars 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

Drugging it is absolutely not okay

[–]LoliLollies[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

How can they kill you?

[–]amozetryn 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

The infamous Mr. Hands had a horse fuck him in the ass and ruptured his colon.