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As a woman in STEM, I've had to explain this many times. (imgur.com)

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[–]rawnuldee 477ポイント478ポイント  (146子コメント)

I find it amusing the people just mention engineering as an example of stem careers. I'm a plant biology major, and bio is majority women. Stem isn't limited to engineering, and mathematics, biology, and chemistry has a good chunk of us hanging around. There's hundreds of us!

But I understand the lack of women in engineering, and how (in general) there is a off putting ratio of men to women in stem majors.

[–]always_under_the_gun 185ポイント186ポイント  (6子コメント)

Sorry

[–]dedzone3k 49ポイント50ポイント  (42子コメント)

I'm just baffled by the expectation of parity amongst majors. Women favor biology, veterinary science, health care administration, etc over engineering. I think most women find that stuff unappealing, and I see nothing wrong with that. The majors they do find interesting they do just fine in.

[–]canteloupy 53ポイント54ポイント  (39子コメント)

Go one step further and ask "why?" And then we might be having the same conversation.

[–]xxvoovxx 78ポイント79ポイント  (24子コメント)

Well I can tell you the things that my sister finds unappealing as a civil engineer. When she's in the field she often experiences sexual harassment, the kind that if she reported would get played off as men being men on the job. When she's working in the field she continuously takes birth control to delay her period as she experiences harassment by men on the job if she disposes of sanitary products in an outhouse. Sometimes men on the job will talk over her as though she doesn't know what she is doing. More work is expected of her than her male counterparts for the same pay, currently doing quality control on 5 projects (all her peers have 2-3 projects). The hours and traveling are starting to get ridiculous (over 300km distance between her two farthest sites, and she's often required to visit both in the same day). She has a hard time imagining herself in the position if she wants to start a family, for many reasons. Those are just her most recent complaints, but they're enough to make her consider a career change. It's unfortunate that she's considering changing fields because she actually loves being an engineer and is really good at what she does.

[–]mugglesnuffin 43ポイント44ポイント  (10子コメント)

At every company I've worked for in the tech / financial sector people are tip-toeing around women in the workplace because even the slightest hint of sexism or inappropriate behaviour gets any male (irrespective of job title) in a world of trouble. I worked at a company with ~250 men and 2 women, the women would have 3 toilets (for the 2 of them) on every floor while the men would have to share the same amount of toilets for all of them.

[–]Fluffiebunnie 21ポイント22ポイント  (3子コメント)

I've worked both at a place like that too (finance). Having one of the women in our team was essentially just a nuisance because it's really tiring to tip-toe all the time. When it was just guys the atmosphere was much more relaxed.

In another company I arrived just after some of the high ups had been fired/reprimanded for extremely sexist unofficial policies towards women (such as distributing female interns/juniors across departments based on that department head's particular preference of female hair color).

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            [–]Jade196 530ポイント531ポイント  (217子コメント)

            When I studied physics as an undergrad and grad student, I didn't really face any negative sexism. I got a scholarship for being a minority in the sciences because I'm female, though.

            I dunno. Everyone was just really cool. My undergrad experience was the first time I was around other people who were into math and science like myself. It was great!

            Maybe I just got lucky and experienced a great group of people. :)

            EDIT: Although, the only other woman in my undergrad is now my sister-in-law. So, there weren't a whole lot of other ladies around...

            [–]Roywocket 335ポイント336ポイント  (123子コメント)

            Speaking as a guy.

            I am thinking one of the major problems of getting women into stem is the lack of women in stem (yeah self fulfilling prophecy. I know). The lack of big female rolemodel decrease the chances of girls being interested in the fields while at impressionable ages.

            I am not saying Bill Nye never inspired any girls to become scientists, but I think he inspired more boys than girls.

            And with the lower number of girls seeing themselves as scientists, less women will become scientists. And then the circle continues.

            Again this is just a thought of mine really. Not supported by anything solid.

            [–]izzieb78 140ポイント141ポイント  (60子コメント)

            I grew up wanting to be a scientist. I was encouraged to become a hairdresser. I now work in IT. Not what I wanted, but my future children will be encouraged to follow their dreams into any field they want. Maybe this next generation will be different.

            [–]dhobmech 47ポイント48ポイント  (5子コメント)

            I'm three semesters away from a mechanical engineering degree. I'll be 52 when I graduate. Screw what anyone else thinks. You want it, go get it.

            [–]Roywocket 70ポイント71ポイント  (11子コメント)

            I promise you one thing. The next generation will always be different.

            Maybe not as different as we hoped, but always a little better than we did it.

            [–]scrubzork 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

            Gonna come back to this comment in one generation to see if your promise holds up.

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              [–]OrangeredValkyrie 18ポイント19ポイント  (6子コメント)

              My parents were always pretty supportive, but I heard a lot of this stuff growing up.

              [–]thespiritofmusic 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

              Damn, my parents always told me I could do anything I set my mind to. Always thought that was the norm but apparently on reddit tons of people talking about how their parents would discourage certain careers.

              [–]halr9000 14ポイント15ポイント  (8子コメント)

              There's no reason you can't still be a scientist, you know. Go do it.

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                [–]perrythebari 21ポイント22ポイント  (7子コメント)

                This is why those female scientist Legos sold out in like zero seconds flat.

                [–]micro4004[🍰] 20ポイント21ポイント  (4子コメント)

                Related, going into a STEM career also usually means working with all/mostly men. The reality is that's not always easy. I work in a heavily male dominated lab and I like my work, but some older men (i.e. my bosses) still have a boys club mentality, I've had people call me sweetheart, no one knows anything about maternity leave, I had a colleague say to my face that he hoped the person hired for a position is male because the people in that group have a "problem working with women," I sometimes feel that people estimate my intelligence lower than male counterparts, etc etc. It feels cool to be a woman doing it, but day to day occasionally gets old.

                [–]Roywocket 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Want to hear something related and kinda funny?

                I had similar, but opposite experiences working making electronics.

                The job involving the montage and soldering of components is often a female dominated job here in Denmark (They call I "montrise jobs". It being a feminine version of the word "montør"). I am not quite sure why it is female dominated, but it is. So when i was taking my apprenticeship as part of my degree in electronics I put among the people who were the best at it.

                Like you say it did get old now and then.

                I think it is safe to assume that all work environments will invoke a bit of tribalism. It is in human nature.

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                  [–]ownedbyaddiction 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  there is a local group in my area for getting women into STEM and I asked about joining being a male in that field. I was told it was for women and men who identify as women only.

                  I just found it strange it wouldn't be open to men who actually want to help pull women into our awesome field.

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                    [–]AnalogousOne 67ポイント68ポイント  (17子コメント)

                    I feel like I should jump in with contrary anecdotes, just because I did have a few experiences of some rather shit professors, TAs, classmates, and coworkers.

                    I'd say 95% of the dudes in engineering are cool. They're smart, supportive, willing to work with you, and great in study groups. They help, or at least don't hinder. Then there is the 5%.

                    It's that 5% that tells you that it's too complex for you if you don't get it immediately. And explains that there was this girlfriend of his friend who had to change majors, because she just couldn't deal with the complexity of the subject.

                    It's that 5% of professors that tell you that this is not a subject for women. That clearly you must have copied from the guy sitting next to you. That you must have a boyfriend who is also an engineering student who is tutoring you. That you don't deserve to be there, and took a spot from a deserving man who would use the education to support his family.

                    It's that 5% that looks at your co-worker, when you say something in a meeting, and doesn't acknowledge what you say. That treats you like the secretary you aren't. That assumes that you won't be as dedicated as the guys because "women just come in, do a little work and then stop working because they're too busy having babies." That tells you that you can't be the lead on the project because the client is Japanese and they don't work with women. And the Chinese client that refuses to actually work with you. And the German client that assumes that you're the entertainment, not the engineering manager. The guy who schedules the socializing for your core group at the strip club. The customer who asks every question from your male subordinate, even if you are the lead on the project. (And in one memorable case, talks exclusively to your male secretary, who looks at him like a deer in headlights, because he doesn't understand more than one word in two.)

                    So yeah, it's not always peaches & candy.

                    This isn't meant to say that women shouldn't go into engineering. Just that they should go into engineering with their eyes wide open, and aware that they will face bullshit, from a small percentage of the people they work with.

                    [–]Schlagv 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    All of this was true in ALL fields. But women then came and dominated half of the fields despite adversity.

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                      [–]roleycoley 37ポイント38ポイント  (6子コメント)

                      I don't know. I took a single programming course as an elective, and it just was really unwelcoming. The professor always made these type of off-hand comments like how girls would always copy off the boys then fail tests, and it always felt like he was talking down to me. He said girls always had a harder time in the class; funny considering my girlfriend at the time had the highest scores in her programming courses, and was the tutor for our after-class sessions. Worse, when I ended up sucking at it I felt like I wasn't just letting myself down. I felt like I had let my entire gender down and proved the teacher right. It was awful.

                      [–]used_to_be_relevant 24ポイント25ポイント  (38子コメント)

                      Is there a way to get daughter interested in these things? Her brothers are in an after school program learning to program Lego robots, and she chose cooking. (Which is totally cool, I just wonder if there's a way to interest girls more)

                      [–]sporophyte 55ポイント56ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      Let her develop the interest on her own! Expose her to lots of different things (both traditionally masculine and traditionally feminine activities) and if she is into science she will pursue it.

                      [–]MuonManLaserJab 23ポイント24ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      Maybe try beating her while yelling "DOCTOR OR LAWYER! DOCTOR OR LAWYER!"

                      [–]6094339 21ポイント22ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      There is tons of science in cooking. Look up molecular gastronomy.

                      [–]HangTheDJHangTheDJ 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Cooking is so chemistry dense! Try going on YouTube and finding some food chemistry projects. Maybe get her into Alton Brown stuff. He does such a phenomenal job explaining the science of cooking. Maybe she will end up in chemistry. 😊 (I'm a female in neuroscience and I love cooking, so there is hope yet). You seem like a great parent.

                      [–]milesDSF 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Many of the best chefs in the world are men, and it's (believe it or not) only recently that the ratio of men to women in the field has equaled out. It's by no means a women's field

                      [–]alternat 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      It's not a field for everyone. Most men can't be engineers.

                      Expose your daughter to coding and electronics. If it clicks for her you won't be able to stop her. If not, let her be whatever she wants to be.

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                        [–]MyPacman 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        I had my niece totally into science, maths and engineering at 4 years of age, at 8 years of age she was letting the boys win because that is what her teachers praised her (sharing and caring), at 13 years I lost her completely, because she already had no other support structures in school and was getting flack for being the only girl. So tell me again, how do you get an 18 year old girl to sign up for STEM?

                        [–]mbibbles 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

                        People aren't being kept out of physics while in physics, it happens when they are 10 and discouraged from taking math seriously by their parents or teachers because math isn't girly. There is at least one study that I know of that demonstrates that this pressure telling young girls that math is not for them is in fact real and not some imaginary phenomena ("Teachers' Gender Stereotypes as Determinants of Teacher Perceptions in Elementary School Mathematics", if you want to check it out).

                        There is a reason you and your sister were the only undergrads in physics - your family did a good job of either letting you come to your own conclusions as to what you like or actively encouraged you to pursue mathematics.

                        [–]geodesic42 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        Nope. Physicist here. Very social department, extremely gender neutral attitudes, welcoming of all sorts of colorful people. Your experience is pretty on par. Maybe engineering is different?

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                          [–]Scootermatsi 90ポイント91ポイント  (32子コメント)

                          Women outnumber men in my biochemistry program. My mathematics proofs class is 2:1 female:male.

                          My engineering class, on the other hand...

                          [–]ParkingLotRanger 483ポイント484ポイント  (388子コメント)

                          There were no women in my electronics courses. It was a sausage fest of guys just fucking around with circuits and shit. This was over 20 years ago though, I bet there is more of a balance now.

                          [–]the_blue_arrow_ 140ポイント141ポイント  (75子コメント)

                          Just graduated: EEs were like 90/10, MEs 80/20, CivEs 55/45, ChemEs 60/40. Estimated.

                          [–]The_Iron_Kraken 154ポイント155ポイント  (19子コメント)

                          Was CivE the one where we go to space?

                          [–]ratzratz 226ポイント227ポイント  (6子コメント)

                          Nope, the one where we build parking lots

                          [–]qweasd4 21ポイント22ポイント  (5子コメント)

                          CivE is where you get to run sewer pipes through parks!

                          [–]MakersOnTheRocks 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          It's not glamorous but someone has to do it!

                          [–]bralra 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          Sewer pipes with leech lines irrigating decorative flora isn't a bad idea.

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                            [–]qwertymodo 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            No, that's where you kill Ghandi because he's a jerk.

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                              [–]alle0441 32ポイント33ポイント  (24子コメント)

                              90/10?? Lucky! It was 95/5 for me.

                              [–]joewith 29ポイント30ポイント  (22子コメント)

                              There were 0 girls in my computer engineering class.

                              [–]droveby 18ポイント19ポイント  (16子コメント)

                              There were about 300 students in my graduating class for computer engineering, we also had 0 girls. (well we had two in the very beginning but they disappeared I don't know why)

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                                  [–]brilliantNumberOne 27ポイント28ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                  Biomed is where the women end up in engineering, at least based on my experience at Drexel. That EE split sounds about right.

                                  [–]Hypothesis_Null 17ポイント18ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                  Commonly about a 50:50 split.

                                  However, that's distorted a bit, as about 1/3 of biomedical students are using it for pre-med, and that tends to have a larger number of girls than guys. So while there are girls in the major, you're getting fewer than that in the field.

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                                    [–]SoapBoxOne 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    For whatever reason the vast majority of materials engineers I've met are women. More men in other disciplines but some have a good mix.

                                    [–]PM_ME_SweetNothings 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                    Can confirm, my ChemE class was 60/40 (materials science was 50/50)

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                                      [–]relkin43 1216ポイント1217ポイント  (105子コメント)

                                      Nope. Not even close.

                                      [–]davestone95 439ポイント440ポイント  (57子コメント)

                                      I mean, there's actually two girls in my electronics class

                                      [–]AbsoluteZeroK 212ポイント213ポイント  (40子コメント)

                                      My CS program has 5 female students enrolled above the first year level! Although... only like 1 out of every 20 female students make it out of first year (I graded assignments last year... that was what happened)... so you know...

                                      [–]slapnuttz 266ポイント267ポイント  (18子コメント)

                                      We had a black female. A unicorn.

                                      [–]AbsoluteZeroK 63ポイント64ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                      Hey! So do we!

                                      [–]shiny_gengar 27ポイント28ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                      Two middle eastern girls. Double unicorn!

                                      [–]ArgoNunya 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      I've actually known more middle-eastern girls in CS than black girls (2 vs 4).

                                      [–]LtWorf_ 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Try studying CS in Sweden. There are more Persian girls than anything else.

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                                          [–]Sarke1 84ポイント85ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                          So YOU'RE the problem!

                                          Get him, girls!

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                                            [–]RIPphonebattery 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            that's a 100000000000000000000000000000000000000% increase!

                                            [–]spizzat2 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            I don't think you're cut out for STEM.

                                            Well, maybe engineering. You were close enough for practical purposes.

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                                              [–]Elan-Morin-Tedronai 29ポイント30ポイント  (31子コメント)

                                              There were a few in my programming courses. It actually wasn't much worse than in my Economics major courses.

                                              [–]FlamingSnot93 38ポイント39ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                              I am at school in wisconsin and all my classes have at least 2 girls out of the 25 in my class. But also 2 of them are exchange students from China.

                                              [–]T34_B4991n5 45ポイント46ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                              I'm taking 3 programming classes at the moment. There's only 1 girl in each of them. It's the same girl.

                                              [–]Noteamini 28ポイント29ポイント  (17子コメント)

                                              programming have better female to male ratio than just pure electric. go look at courses like Microelectronics, and you see pretty much 100:2 male to female.

                                              [–]Kailvin 103ポイント104ポイント  (13子コメント)

                                              100:2

                                              REDUCE!

                                              50:1

                                              [–]ParkingLotRanger 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                              Story time. I did an E.E. job for awhile. No women. Then I quickly realized all of these bright E.E. guys could design awesome circuits and talk about Ohms and shit, but they couldn't work their computers at all. (or didn't want to) They could barely un-jam a printer or build a simple Access database. (I'm sure that is different now too, but this was the early 90's) So, I was good at that stuff and somehow found myself becoming the un-official "IT guy" for the whole group. I then just moved into IT because I was doing more of that than engineering anyway. Once I got into IT I saw more women in the group, then into programming and there were also more women in those groups (most of them from India/China).

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                                                  [–]hellsponge 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  Can confirm, my electronics courses had 0 women in them.

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                                                    [–]PowerfulPotato 30ポイント31ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                    Yeah I'm taking an engineering class currently and there's one girl in the class. The teacher calls her "Queen Jenna" super awkward...

                                                    [–]NamityName 36ポイント37ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                    Well, technically it is "more" balanced as there are some girls. But 5-10% is not a lot

                                                    [–]Emerly_Nickel 16ポイント17ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                    In every electrical engineering lab I've ever had, there were at most two women...including myself.
                                                    The lectures were better, but not that much. Maybe 5 to 8 out of 30. This was only just a few years ago.

                                                    For some reason bio engineering was much more balanced at my school. Mechanical had 0 women in my year.

                                                    [–]hercaptamerica 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                    Im in BioEng. About 1/3 of BioEng students are using it for med school -- which is part of the reason for the higher ratio of women in it. The amount going into the field is still pretty low overall.

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                                                      [–]kallan133 82ポイント83ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                                      In my Organic Chem lab, I was the only girl. The dumbass guy next to me told me he was glad there were no girls in the class because they were difficult to work with. Like seriously? Why would you go out of your way to tell the only girl in the class that?

                                                      [–]rhunex 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                      I don't know about now, but as an undergraduate in computer science in 2011 was 86:14 m:f. My graduating class had 3 women out of 17, which is pretty close to that.

                                                      In grad school now, and for the 70 or so men in the program, there's about 10 women. I don't have stats for recent years and that's only one data point, but it's pretty close to the 14% women stat too.

                                                      [–]BegoneBygon 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      There's one girl in my computer science. She's there for nursing credits.

                                                      [–]TurskiTV 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                      Nope exactly the same I am an electrical student in college and there are 0 girls and 46 guys, huge sausage fest

                                                      [–]CrimsonandCoal 82ポイント83ポイント  (91子コメント)

                                                      You would be surprised. I think that what most people miss in the comic is the fact that there is a little man in the STEM booth. What studies of proximal variables show (i.e. variables actually related to the context of the situation instead of inferring a causal chain beyond reason) is that women enter STEM fields where they have observed thatwomen as a group have a chance in hell of success. Chemistry is such a field. Successful women in chemistry become models for future scientists. In fields like mine women are constantly forced into lower positions (you do not have to take my word for this...salary and rank are publically available online for public Universities). All you have to do is compare the numbers of full profs in any department men vs women, and then the number of women shunted into temporary teaching or research positions.

                                                      Any girl with ahead for stem can deduce her chances in academia and perhaps the greater job market.

                                                      [–]Roywocket 123ポイント124ポイント  (83子コメント)

                                                      In fields like mine women are constantly forced into lower positions (you do not have to take my word for this...salary and rank are publically available online for public Universities).

                                                      You see the problem with claiming a glass ceiling exist is that it is an extensive and very damming claim.

                                                      Thus it needs extensive evidence.

                                                      And looking that the Salaries and Rank doesn't actually prove that women were forced into these positions.

                                                      It only proves the salary and rank. Not the circumstance surrounding those ranks.

                                                      Edit: Wow before I get buried in downvotes at least let me know what the objection with my comment is.

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                                                          [–]Miss_Sangwitch 103ポイント104ポイント  (40子コメント)

                                                          Or there are people like me who would have liked to major in something STEM related but can barely do 2nd grade math.

                                                          [–]Drawtaru 40ポイント41ポイント  (14子コメント)

                                                          Same here. I've been doing early math stuff on https://www.khanacademy.org/ and I haven't done very well so far. =\ But practice makes perfect, right?

                                                          [–]Elonth 44ポイント45ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                          that is the spirit! don't give up! make sure to work on an organized foundation. those little nitpicks about carrying your numbers and lining up your digits is important! math is a field that you have to build up from. if you lay a shitty foundation it makes the whole building harder/unsafe!

                                                          [–]Subhazard 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                          My foundation keeps eroding.

                                                          Shitty brain, hold on to some information ffs

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                                                              [–]CaptAngusMacHaggis 13ポイント14ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                              Mathematics is often taught in a very boring, repetive way. I hated math in school and now I use statistics, algebra, logic, geometry and trigonometry daily. Some days I'm tempted to go back to college and get a degree in mathematics.

                                                              Mathematics can be fascinating if taught in an applied way.

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                                                                [–]taxalmond 90ポイント91ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                Cool hair trick.

                                                                [–]andre_macassi 26ポイント27ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                There are plenty of women in scientific disciplines in my experience, in fields like biology or chemistry. I think it's mostly engineering and computer science that women are not participating in.

                                                                [–]SpaghettiChong 81ポイント82ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                                                They did vines about STEM on top model yesterday, they were terrible, this show gets worse every season.

                                                                [–]aztec_prime 86ポイント87ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                                To be fair, they're fucking models. Not champions of science.

                                                                [–]Supercoolguy7 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                Yeah, if I were supposed to do vines on science I'd be doing stuff we did in like 7th grade

                                                                [–]SpaghettiChong 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                They were supposed to be PSA's about how there aren't enough women in STEM but they only had six seconds so they basically talked as fast as they could. I learned nothing lol

                                                                [–]aztec_prime 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                Exactly something important like job diversity in 6 sec from models makes zero sense lol

                                                                [–]SpaghettiChong 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                In one of the vines, a guy was just screaming unintelligible things at the model and throwing paper at her, then it panned over to her with a briefcase that said STEM on it and she was like "stemlookwhohasthepowernow" and I was like "wut." It didn't even make sense lol

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                                                                    [–]kittenlover27 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                    I did not understand that sentence

                                                                    [–]LakeBodom 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                    Why is STEM the only example ever used? In all my upper level finance classes there are very few women, but the business school is probably close to 50:50 male to female

                                                                    [–]965497654765487654 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                    It's heavily pushed by google, facebook etc and a big part of the silicon valley culture.

                                                                    [–]Aldheim 1078ポイント1079ポイント  (119子コメント)

                                                                    "AntiFemComics"

                                                                    Well, doesn't that just sound like a lovely place...

                                                                    [–]seantorious 99ポイント100ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                    Out of the frying pan into the fire

                                                                    [–]coalminnow 88ポイント89ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                                    I absolutely garuntee, 100% that OP is not a woman

                                                                    [–]phalanx2 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                    /r/asablackman

                                                                    [–]boredinwisc 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                    If that's true, it took months of dedication, since OP's entire over 1 year history (I know, but it's 4am and I'm not feeling well, so why not slog through) contain references to being a woman and to being an engineer.

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                                                                        [–]truthnineseven 52ポイント53ポイント  (16子コメント)

                                                                        What's stem

                                                                        [–]ancisfranderson 1879ポイント1880ポイント  (625子コメント)

                                                                        Some social issues are just too complex for three panel comics.

                                                                        [–]MisterSaltine 161ポイント162ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                        Yeah, you need at least four. Five, at most.

                                                                        [–]ayyy_1mao 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                        Six is right out!

                                                                        [–]theycallmeponcho 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                        Four with an extra DLC.

                                                                        [–]devolov 738ポイント739ポイント  (584子コメント)

                                                                        I think the main point is that for there to be more women in STEM, more women need to go into STEM rather than advocate it. There are social issues that go with that thought, such as sexism towards women from the peers in the class, no doubt. But those social issues are a topic that you are supposed to open from this comic, not interpolate.

                                                                        [–]dogsdogssheep 314ポイント315ポイント  (154子コメント)

                                                                        I talked about this in another comment somewhere in this thread. I'm gonna be lazy and just copy and paste the bits that relates to what you're talking about.

                                                                        The problem is not that women get turned away at the door. That hardly ever happens (there are a few people living in the past who consciously believe that women aren't capable of contributing to science, but they are a minority).

                                                                        The problem is that growing up girls are encouraged to develop interests in girly things and not so much encouraged to develop interests in STEM things. This is obviously starting to change with all of the "Girls in STEM" stuff going on, but the intrinsic way adults have learned to treat children is such that they unintentionally treat boy and girls differently. Here is one example of the different ways parents treat boys and girls. The different ways we treat them create women who never learned to enjoy science and who don't trust themselves to be able to do science well.

                                                                        While girls are often welcomed into the nerdy professions, the general public is still training their daughters that STEM isn't for them. So girls don't approach the nerdy professions, thus they never find out how welcoming the people in that community can be.

                                                                        Or sometimes when they do approach, they are really hard on themselves, thinking things like "I can't possibly be right about this" and "I'm not capable of doing this as well as they are." Oddly enough those are normal thoughts people have when they begin a new thing, but women end up attributing those beliefs about their abilities to the fact that they are women. This is related to why women have such high incidence of Impostor Syndrome. It is also related to the problem of "being the only one in the room" (This article may be kind long, but I think it reflects what it feels like to be the minority in a room very well. Please read it. It also might change your opinion of John Stewart a little)

                                                                        Edit: /u/Vanabrus mentioned this: https://xkcd.com/385/ It's not that people actually say that, but that is exactly how it feels to be "the only one" in the room. It is as if everything you do represents your entire group. It is known as Stereotype Threat

                                                                        [–]French_Mustache 98ポイント99ポイント  (21子コメント)

                                                                        Imposter Syndrome

                                                                        Oh wow. This is exactly what I feel. Thank you for helping me put a name to it, and feeling a little more normal.

                                                                        I work, and have always worked, in male-dominated industries. At my current job, I am the first woman in a decade to work this position, in this particular train yard. I'm the only woman in the car department, out of 100+ employees.

                                                                        It is extremely competitive to get your foot in the door, and other equally-qualified men have to try multiple tries to get hired. While I was the most qualified at the hiring event, I still attribute my hiring to my gender. And I know it influenced their decision.

                                                                        But I find myself working twice as hard, learning twice as much, trying twice as hard to please my coworkers and superiors. Because I have this suspicion that they think the only reason I got this job was becaus I'm a woman, never mind my training and experience. I constantly feel like I have to prove myself, and even then I feel like it's never enough. I'll trip up, or I'll Fuck up, and they'll all throw their hands up and say "I knew it, it's because she's a woman!"

                                                                        On top of that, I have to constantly self-validate my feeling, and carefully craft my reactions to negative news at work. Too emotional, I'm just an emotional woman with feelings, thus my opinion is invalid. Or, if I react with too much anger, I'm just a stuck up bitch on the rag.

                                                                        I don't know. It's something I need to work through. And I paint my coworkers in a bad light. They've been very welcoming and accomodating. I just keep wondering what I need to do to really prove myself.

                                                                        [–]zspencer 47ポイント48ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                        But I find myself working twice as hard, learning twice as much, trying twice as hard to please my coworkers and superiors. Because I have this suspicion that they think the only reason I got this job was becaus I'm a woman, never mind my training and experience. I constantly feel like I have to prove myself, and even then I feel like it's never enough. I'll trip up, or I'll Fuck up, and they'll all throw their hands up and say "I knew it, it's because she's a woman!"

                                                                        You're also likely feeling the effects of 'stereotype threat' where you feel any mistake you do make will reflect negatively on the 'out group' that you're part of.

                                                                        That said, the old adage "Work twice as hard to get half as far" is very very true for minorities; and this holds true especially in STEM; where we rely on 'competence proxies' (speaking at conferences, contributing to open source, etc) to a very high degree in our initial filtering/hiring process.

                                                                        [–]iamyo 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                        Also look up 'stereotype threat' and 'solo status.'

                                                                        If you are the only one and the task is subtly linked to identity, your performance will suffer. It's weird. Like the one white guy playing basketball can get psyched out the same way.

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                                                                          [–]Sonrise 110ポイント111ポイント  (66子コメント)

                                                                          While that's a major issue, there's also the issue of how women are treated once they're in STEM. They're seen as the odd ones out; the black sheep. I'm currently a CS student at a leading University and our ethics course fortunately had us examine the issue, and think critically about where it comes from. Because originally, almost all programmers were women! (That's because it was seen as a 'secretarial' job, not an engineering job)

                                                                          Look at this reddit thread. Sort by controversial and you'll see what I mean. We complain about needing girls in STEM, and then as soon as someone says "I'm a girl in STEM!" everyone complains that they're attention seeking. Despite being a male, I'm proud to be at a University that has an active Women in CS program. So too, despite leaning right politically (and thus not being a fan of affirmative action), I know there is a need to encourage women to enter the STEM fields, and commend them for doing well and sticking with it. Unfortunately, we're at a time where we get bigger and bigger classes entering into STEM, but fewer and fewer end up graduating with a STEM degree due to the pressure they feel to transfer out.

                                                                          Edit: This article, while not explaining the why very well (or at all), has a good visual of part of the issue at hand.

                                                                          [–]rockhoun 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                          I think I have some perspective on this, as I am: a woman with science and a math degree -a teacher of science and math -a teacher in an all girl's school -a mother of two children (one girl, one boy) who both went into engineering.

                                                                          In the 70s-early 80s there were almost no women in STEM, so the ones who were there were kick-ass, break the stereotype exceptions. You knew that if you went into those fields you would be fighting all the time, but you had the payback of being unique, held up as a role model, and if you were into guys, you certainly had your pick! Numbers of women in STEM programs increased every year.

                                                                          Now, numbers are lower again. I think a couple of reasons:

                                                                          Girls were told they could be whatever they wanted to be and encouraged to go into STEM. But as they progressed, they found it, if not overtly sexist, at least less female friendly. And most of them not being those stubborn, ass-kicking pioneers, they bled off into other fields.

                                                                          Women with strong STEM capabilities often also have stronger communication/ language whatever you call it capabilities than their male counterparts. So they end up in STEM-related but not pure STEM fields, like education, publishing, public relations, etc.

                                                                          Many girls still don't consider STEM careers because they are presented in a (traditionally male) way that they find unappealing. It's all circuits and technology, without the why- eg, grandpa has Alzheimer's and wanders at night, how can we use technology to keep him safe? Design a pressure sensor for his sock, connect it by bluetooth to a smartphone app that alerts his caregiver, if you want to know

                                                                          The solution? No idea. Almost 30 years into it, I'm discouraged.

                                                                          [–]KickItNext 25ポイント26ポイント  (25子コメント)

                                                                          I think it varies from school to school. The girls in my engineering program are absolutely not seen as black sheep. They're just one of the engineering majors, just like the guys. Nobody treats them any differently for being girls.

                                                                          [–]xxvoovxx 20ポイント21ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                          I think it does depend on the school, and the individuals in the program. My sister was one of the top in her class in civil engineering and was sexually harassed by a group of male students (who were just scraping by in the program). They seemed to have the attitude that she deserved the harassment for making them look bad, or something along those lines. The issue was brought up with the dean of engineering as well as the police. Unfortunately my sister was too afraid to press charges and get the said students expelled. This happened 5 years ago.

                                                                          [–]turanga_leela15 17ポイント18ポイント  (18子コメント)

                                                                          That's important, and it makes a big difference, but it's not everything. I was the only girl on my team at a tech company this summer, and even though everyone was kind to me and treated me like an equal it was still a challenge to feel at home in a setting where so few people were female. I still think it's important to stick it out in tech, but after that summer I decided I couldn't judge someone for moving into a field that's no so lonely.

                                                                          [–]realmei 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                          I was the only girl in a science competition when I was 13 after we got whittled down to around 30-50 people. There were different categories so I don't remember the exact numbers but I was the only girl in the entire competition.

                                                                          It's not that people were mean to me but it really felt weird, you know? People were making comments like "at least this year we have one girl!" It seems on other years they had 0 females.

                                                                          Actually as I was typing that out, I just remembered one incident - one of the other contestants put his hand on my thigh and said "your skin is so soft." I forgot about that...

                                                                          [–]turanga_leela15 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                          It feels so weird! I went from working in an office that was 75% female to being one of just a handful (there were others around, but since I wasn't working with them running into one was like sighting a rare bird in a jungle) and I felt like I was walking around with a beacon on my head. And I'm really sorry about the creep. That sucks.

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                                                                                  [–]mullerjones 634ポイント635ポイント  (355子コメント)

                                                                                  The problem is that saying "for there to be more women in STEM more women have to go into STEM" doesn't help. That's kinda obvious, really. The whole point of the debate isn't that women don't go into STEM, it's the why. Why aren't women usually as interested as men in those fields? What causes them to chose not to go that way even though they might have some interest in it?

                                                                                  This is a deep subject that extends very far, all the way back to a how a child is treated and what is told is their job or responsibility by everyone.

                                                                                  It's like if there was a treehouse full of boys that looked weirdly at and/or made fun of any girl who enters, to which some girls say "hey, there should be more girls up there" and the boys reply "just come in then, no ones stopping you". It just isn't that simple.

                                                                                  EDIT: let me clear something up: I don't believe it is exclusively men's fault that women don't go into STEM. The point I was trying to make with that analogy is that physically preventing you from doing something is not the only way to curb you from doing it. Pressuring you into thinking you shouldn't or mocking you for doing so also does that. So no, it isn't exclusively men's fault women don't go into STEM, I apologize if it seemed like I meant that.

                                                                                  [–]Mikey_desu 496ポイント497ポイント  (207子コメント)

                                                                                  Who isn't encouraging girls to go into STEM these days? Have you seen the scholarships just for being a woman? I don't see the gender studies scholarships for being a man...

                                                                                  People need to drop the X vs. Y mentality. Identity politics puts you into groups, and discourages interaction between said groups.

                                                                                  "College is full of white people, I shouldn't go there"

                                                                                  "STEM is full of men, that must mean it's unsafe for women. Better not even bother"

                                                                                  "There aren't enough Latinos in that club. I'd probably just feel like an outcast"

                                                                                  See what I mean?

                                                                                  Nobody is trying to "erase your culture". Trust me when I tell you, nobody gives a fuck.

                                                                                  Harmony starts with not seeing disparities in others because of they look. Would you not join a club because everyone was short and you aren't? No? Then don't do it with race/gender.

                                                                                  This shit starts with the man in the mirror people.

                                                                                  Edit: grammar

                                                                                  [–]Introvertsaremyth 88ポイント89ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                                                  I had a son then a daughter and the difference in how people treat them is unbelievable. Even though I try to be very gender equal in my parenting I can't stop the Drs office from offering my daughter a princess sticker and my son a lego one. I think these millions of little biased interactions every day that shape girls (and boys) telling them what's acceptable for their gender. I've always told my kids "all colors are for all kids" but every time balloons are being handed out my daughter is not asked "what color do you want?" She's asked "do you want a pink balloon?" By age two she "got it" girls are supposed to like pink. Now she's being taught by society that real girls are supposed to like princesses and fashion, and that her value comes from her looks, not that girls can build cool things. I do as much as I can to counter these messages at home but the moral is please be careful how you interact with little girls.

                                                                                  [–]iamyo 135ポイント136ポイント  (59子コメント)

                                                                                  I think the main strategy is to show girls and young women that this is a career possibility for them. They are subtly or actively discouraged at the ages where it's going to matter for them to be part of it.

                                                                                  If you are doing it at the college level you're probably too late.

                                                                                  The dumbness of the comic is that women aren't protesting this issue--there's a huge push for EVERYONE to do STEM right now. But there's also some stuff happening at the early grades that are making girls less likely than boys to do STEM. So they are trying to get girls to see themselves as engineers and whatnot.

                                                                                  It's not an issue that involves social protest primarily.

                                                                                  [–]industrialwaste 36ポイント37ポイント  (21子コメント)

                                                                                  there's also some stuff happening at the early grades that are making girls less likely than boys to do STEM

                                                                                  I've heard people say this before, but what discourages girls from STEM?

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                                                                                          [–]dichloroethane 22ポイント23ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                          Yeah we just need one more panel where her parents aren't pushing a career in STEM since she was 5.

                                                                                          Experimental physicist whose bedtime stories were math problems starting in kindergarten

                                                                                          [–]MisterBovineJoni 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          The director of my Computer Science program wishes there were more females in the program. He said in India it's about 60-40 male/female and in the U.S. it's 90-10. He also said about 10-15 years ago there were more women in the field.

                                                                                          [–]TheFlashFrame 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          I may get downvoted for this. But this is a serious question. Why is it a social issue? The fact that there are more female nurses than male nurses and male engineers than female engineers doesn't really matter to me... I don't get why that's an issue. I just don't get it.

                                                                                          [–]toothbucket 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          probably, but not this one

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                                                                                            [–]LaxCrosse007 12ポイント13ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                                                            I work as a software developer with 30 other devs and we FINALLY just hired our first woman. She was the only woman who has applied to our many job postings. Dozens of dudes apply

                                                                                            [–]Wild_Hyena 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                            I am currently finishing my associates in biotechnology and after reading about gender inequality in stem for so long I thought I'd walk into analytical chemistry or advanced molecular techniques and be the only girl.

                                                                                            However the opposite has been true... There is a group of us all working ln our degree together and its absolutely female dominated... easily three girls for every one guy.

                                                                                            [–]stephbunny 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                                            The graduate student ratio in my biology department is 35/39 male/females. If my memory serves me correctly, my undergrad ratio was more 60/40, but it really depended on the class. I took an upper division course and remember there were only 4 males in a class of 15 or 16.

                                                                                            [–]TemperateGreen 13ポイント14ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                            Yeah, Biology fields tend to attract more women than men. Engineering fields tend to attract more men. Very few fields actually have a 50/50 gender balance.

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                                                                                              [–]Lazysleeper 14ポイント15ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                                                              This is the opposite for nursing.

                                                                                              [–]InternetSafety101 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                              Have male friends who are nurses. They HATE it. They get asked to do all the heavy lifting because all the women "can't". They end up doing all the heavy lifting plus all their regular duties. They complain that they have to work much harder only to get paid the same as the women who "Don't do shit"

                                                                                              Have only heard this from 3 or 4 guys, but they all had the same story and complaints.

                                                                                              [–]AtomicSteve21 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                              Teaching too.

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                                                                                                [–]attazach 20ポイント21ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                                                Honestly in the STEM field men don't really treat women differently, the outside community however does, and tries to make it seem like men in STEM do as well. I'm currently at a STEM college, and there are drastically more men than women however we all treat each other like equals (for the most part). No one I know I'm college thinks that women are less suited for STEM fields than men. In fact we embrace everyone who is interested in sciences.

                                                                                                [–]mercedene1 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                                It may also be a generational thing. I'd assume the older the cohort, the greater the gender disparity (not sure whether this would also correlate to attitudes about gender, but it wouldn't surprise me if it did). But as you said, the biggest problem is not the STEM community but society at large. Our culture does encourage certain gender-based behaviors and expectations, and kids do pick up on these things. By the time college rolls around, it's too late. Fixing the gender disparity in STEM really needs to start in grade school.

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                                                                                                  [–]ianban 5ポイント6ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                                                                  There is a great video documentary which explores many theories behind gender disparities in the work force - a great watch if you can spare 40 minutes.

                                                                                                  [–]saintstryfe 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                  It works in reverse too. As a guy who started out in teaching, then went into Library Science, I found myself pushed toward STEM without much recoginition it was not my skillset.

                                                                                                  "You're good with computers!" Well, no. I'm good at using computers. I'm good at EXPLAINING computers... you know, using words? I'm great at that. Programming? Networking? I'm terrible at them. it's not where my skills lie.

                                                                                                  Meanwhile, my female friend who is a total code monkey, she was pushed into teaching as well (where we met), and then by advisors into teaching reading. She's a lovely person, but reading to kids was not her strong suit. She was uncomfortable and wrong at it. And yes, they did make her feel like she was less of a woman for not connecting with children. Meanwhile, I was made to feel uncomfortable working with kids.

                                                                                                  I found my niche in Archival Work, which plays off my best skills. She eventually found a much happier job coding for websites. But she never got her degree due to how frustrated she was.

                                                                                                  Life is never simple, but for a STEM inclined female, or a non-STEM inclined guy, it's more so.

                                                                                                  [–]Got5BeesForAQuarter 14ポイント15ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                                                  If the lack of men in primary teaching or nursing is not a huge issue then why is women not taking engineering or computer science positions an issue?

                                                                                                  [–]langleyi 107ポイント108ポイント  (13子コメント)

                                                                                                  /r/asablackman

                                                                                                  [–]ButtsexEurope 122ポイント123ポイント  (35子コメント)

                                                                                                  Fellow woman in STEM. If you want more representation, lead by example and join a STEM field.

                                                                                                  [–]xxviktoriad 33ポイント34ポイント  (22子コメント)

                                                                                                  Was a woman in STEM for 10 years, left 5 years ago for medicine. I'm glad to see my fellow females taking an interest in the fields. I was the only female for 10+ years.

                                                                                                  [–]ButtsexEurope 74ポイント75ポイント  (20子コメント)

                                                                                                  I'd say medicine counts as STEM. Pretty sure most people do.

                                                                                                  [–]Sventertainer 24ポイント25ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                                                                  She grows medicinal marijuana, so more of a gardener.

                                                                                                  [–]bergamaut 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                                  I'd say medicine counts as STEM. Pretty sure most people do.

                                                                                                  Why does this sound like a game of "degrees I respect"?

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                                                                                                      [–]Vilokthoria 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                      Not everyone is cut out for it. Science is fascinating but I suck at math. No amount of studying could make me pass in a science field. But I still think that the old cliche of male/female study subjects needs to be done away with. I personally didn't go into STEM but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't stand up immediately for getting interested women into it.

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                                                                                                        [–]Claughy 29ポイント30ポイント  (17子コメント)

                                                                                                        In my Graduate program there were 13 or fourteen people who entered at the same time as me. There are literally three males. It really depends on the STEM field.

                                                                                                        [–]plural1 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                        The gender studies major is pretty small and at many universities it is only offered as a minor. Women are in large numbers in majors such as education, public administration, and health services.

                                                                                                        [–]purepoenage 573ポイント574ポイント  (124子コメント)

                                                                                                        http://i.imgur.com/syxjt2Z.gif

                                                                                                        [–]Pixie-dust 19ポイント20ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                                                                        When I first started college I entered as an engineering major focus on electrical. With my dad I ha been tinkering since I was little and thought it was something I would be good at. Wrong. I breezed through my courses at the beginning but as I progressed further along I noticed I was falling behind and then further and further until I changed majors 3 semesters later when I finally I realized that it wasn't for me. I was in my "women studies" class and shared what happened with some classmates on why I was behind in my business courses and instead of listening to me about how I wasn't up to par with everyone else they began to blame my profs and male students for making things too hard for me. I was so offended at that and they just couldn't fathom why. It's really frustrating. That class was the worst mistake i ever made in college.

                                                                                                        [–]msanthropologist 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                        In which we reduce multi-faceted and complex social issues down to meaningless drivel.

                                                                                                        [–]Vespasians 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                        So my Dad runs a fairly large technology company in the UK that regularly gets blasted by Feminists for employing very few women and not a single female director (there are 14 male directors). Anyway there was an opening for a new CFO they received over 400 applications... Not one of them was from a woman... They then got blasted in the feminist press for being a bunch of sexist bastards. You just can't win with these people.

                                                                                                        [–]sometimescash 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                                        No one's stopping these women from going or finishing with STEM degrees just like nobody is stopping men from getting a nurses degree. Some fields just attract certain genders, doesn't mean there's some goddamn grand scheme behind it.

                                                                                                        [–]reddit_human 34ポイント35ポイント  (26子コメント)

                                                                                                        There seems to be alot of debate as for the reasons for gender disparity for jobs in different fields. Let me help clear up some of the confusion.

                                                                                                        I'd like to first point to a study which shows that girls that have a condition which causes them to have excess testosterone during fetal development display more male-like behavior and choose to play with male-typical toys when compared with their sisters who have normal hormone levels (this accounts for social influences). Even when encouraged by their parents to play with female-typical toys they still chose the male toys. This shows that testosterone can be attributed to different male and female behavior.

                                                                                                        This article is also about studies done with women who were born with an excess of testosterone. It found that these women were more likely to chose male dominated careers. The trend they found was that women with higher levels testosterone were more interested in jobs involving working with inanimate things vs jobs involving working with people.

                                                                                                        What science has shown is that the chromosomes you are born with affect the hormone levels in a fetus. Those hormones affect brain development which in turn affects the behaviors and preferences people display. It also influences the career choices of men and women. The link between hormones and gender specific behavior has also been well established from tons of animal studies

                                                                                                        tl;dr: studies show different hormones affects brain development in fetus differently and causes noticeable differences in behavior and preferences later in life

                                                                                                        [–]dogsdogssheep 6ポイント7ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                                                                        I'd be interested in reading the full article. Do you know how I could get it?

                                                                                                        While I'm not saying the studies are wrong, I wonder how encouragement (inside the trials, but also and more importantly prior to the trials) differed since the parents knew their daughters had CAH.

                                                                                                        [–]rupertbayern 18ポイント19ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5LRdW8xw70

                                                                                                        Pretty long documentary why there is such a big difference in Norway, one of the "most equal" countries. Summary: Females tend to like social stuff more than STEM. You can even see it in one day old babys and show them a picture of a face: The female baby will react more.

                                                                                                        [–]jeffp12 24ポイント25ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                                        The best part of this documentary is how he records the reaction of people seeing other interviews. So there's the gender studies people, they are shown footage from scientists discussing results that show gender differences are biological, and you can see in real time the gender studies people immediately dismiss them and insist that the study is probably flawed, even though you can see that they literally don't know anything more about the study than the clip they just go to watch. You can see them applying their bias in real time, it's fantastic, and really telling because at the beginning they make a fairly strong sounding case that's very dismissive of evidence of biological differences, and then you realize that they just refuse to listen to evidence and that's why they are dismissive of it.

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                                                                                                          [–]dancingmanatee 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                                          I am a woman, and for the sake of argument, let's say as a young kid (~5 years old), I more often chose to spend time with boys over girls. Perhaps there was a biological reason driving these preferences. Therefore, over time, I was secondhand exposed to the types of toys, pastimes, and messages typically socialized to boys.

                                                                                                          I'm not arguing that hormones or biology don't play a part, but saying testosterone = good at math seems like a way oversimplification. I remember reading about a study that showed when women were given a test labeled "problem solving" instead of "math", they score just as well as men.

                                                                                                          I would wager that it's much more accurate to say hormones determine who we play with. And who we play with determines what we play with. If toys and activities are gendered, it's easy to mislabel the skills and interests reinforced by those toys and activities as also being gendered.

                                                                                                          [–]reddit_human 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                          The studies do not say that hormones cause a difference in abilities or capabilities. Men and women are equally capable at math and science. It's their preferences on what they choose to do that's different.

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                                                                                                            [–]Toux 25ポイント26ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                                                                            Health science, anything bio related, at least 70% girls. There are now a 68/32% ratio of girls to boys accepted in med school.

                                                                                                            [–]SpareLiver 62ポイント63ポイント  (81子コメント)

                                                                                                            As a man in STEM, most of my classes were pretty close to a 50/50 split genderwise.
                                                                                                            Since multiple people are asking: I majored in computer science. I don't know if the ration continued into grad school, but throughout most of my schooling, both lower and upper div classes, the ration was pretty close to 50/50. Maybe 60/40.

                                                                                                            [–]spaghetti_taco 74ポイント75ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                                                                            http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Ron-Burgundy-Saying-I-Dont-Believe-You.gif

                                                                                                            [–]RelaxPrime 55ポイント56ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                                            I appreciate the link completely explaining the gif so I don't have to click it.

                                                                                                            [–]Dann01 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                            Didn't even need to click it

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                                                                                                              [–]engremma[S] 122ポイント123ポイント  (13子コメント)

                                                                                                              The Hell classes were you taking? I was one of maybe 3 or 4 in most

                                                                                                              [–]BurgerSupreme 68ポイント69ポイント  (33子コメント)

                                                                                                              As a male graduate student in STEM I have to ask "what are you smoking?" Maybe some of the entry classes in STEM have 50/50 but upper division classes and graduate school? Nope. one of my classes had maybe fifteen students and not one was a women and another class had like ten students again not a single female :( it sucks because I feel we are letting down a whole generation of potential scientist and engineers.

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