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Concern Spreads to BMW (self.investing)

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[–]ChaosMotor 6ポイント7ポイント  (22子コメント)

Seems to me that prison is a far more effective resolution for corporate malfeasance than fines - fines are simply incorporated into the cost of doing business.

[–]GG_Henry -1ポイント0ポイント  (21子コメント)

Prison won't solve anything. It will only bring out scapegoats. What all these companies and their shareholders actually care about is the bottom line. Seriously do think sending some mid level engineer to jail will effect the board of directors in anyway? Do you think the board had knowledge of this? If they did they surely distanced themselves.

Prison and fines may be the best deterrent. Fines effect the bottom line, ie the company and prison may deter future mid level engineers from cheating.

[–]ChaosMotor 0ポイント1ポイント  (20子コメント)

What all these companies and their shareholders actually care about is the bottom line.

I can assure you that they care more about not going to prison than they care about how rich they are.

Seriously do think sending some mid level engineer to jail will effect the board of directors in anyway?

No. But I think sending a few C-levels to the hoosegow would have a big impact.

ie the company and prison may deter future mid level engineers from cheating.

It's wildly disingenuous to think a mid-level engineer would have the authority to enact something like this.

[–]GG_Henry -5ポイント-4ポイント  (19子コメント)

Wildly disingenuous? Shouldn't even dignify you with a response. If you had any idea how much engineering is done to cars nowadays you would know decisions are made by mid level engineers everyday. The c-levels, as you call them, just care about results.

[–]ChaosMotor 2ポイント3ポイント  (18子コメント)

If you had any idea how much engineering is done to cars nowadays you would know decisions are made by mid level engineers everyday.

I'm an engineer, so... And you're arguing a strawman point that is frankly, stupid. Nobody said engineers weren't making decisions. I'm saying engineers wouldn't be making THIS decision.

The c-levels, as you call them, just care about results.

Results like, meeting CAFE standards by any means possible. I can assure you that software to trick CAFE measurements was not an idea that an engineer thought up out of the blue. That is a decision made from on-high.

[–]GG_Henry -5ポイント-4ポイント  (17子コメント)

Love when "engineers" make shitty assumptions. You'd think you'd at least understand basic logic and reason.

Your saying there is no way a mid level engineer made this decision. However you simply do not know. Your making an argument from ignorance.

The proof will come out or it won't. I'm not interested in sitting around and pretending.

[–]ChaosMotor 0ポイント1ポイント  (16子コメント)

Love when "engineers" make shitty assumptions. You'd think you'd at least understand basic logic and reason.

Love when whatever the fuck you claim to be make shitty assumptions, then accuse everyone else of doing exactly what they're doing. You'd think you'd at least understand basic logic and reason.

I'm not interested in sitting around and pretending to know.

Except that's exactly what you're doing, dipshit.

[–]GG_Henry -1ポイント0ポイント  (11子コメント)

On second thought don't even bother responding. Your post history tells me enough. No need to sit around and discuss this with such a crude uneducated individual.

[–]ChaosMotor -3ポイント-2ポイント  (10子コメント)

Fuck you, I'll respond when and were I want, asshole. I guarantee you I have more education than you do, fucktard.

[–]GG_Henry -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Ha-ha. All I've said is we don't know what happened. Please tell me what assumptions I've made.

[–]ChaosMotor 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

You telling me that my assumption is shitty necessitates that you have assumptions about what happened, dumb ass.

you would know decisions are made by mid level engineers everyday

Embedded assumption: That engineers made the decision.

The c-levels, as you call them, just care about results.

Embedded assumption: The c-levels did not make the decision.

Prison won't solve anything. It will only bring out scapegoats.

Embedded assumption: Legal action would not be able to trace blame back to the actual parties.

Compare this to your other embedded assumption above that it was a "mid-level engineer" who did this. Welp... then why are you assuming that scape-goats would exist? Seems your assumptions are in conflict.

Seriously do think sending some mid level engineer to jail will effect the board of directors in anyway?

Embedded assumption: That a mid level engineer will be the scapegoat. Note the conflict with your other assumption that it was the decision of a mid level engineer. Whoops! That's twice that you've embedded assumptions about the responsibility lying above the engineer but that the engineer will be a scapegoat.

Do you think the board had knowledge of this?

And now you change position again to assume the board wouldn't have known.

prison may deter future mid level engineers from cheating.

Now you're pushing back to an assumption that it was mid level engineers, which is different from your prior statements that the mid level engineers would be scapegoats.

In conclusion, your arguments are:

  • Predicated on assumptions
  • Self-contradictory
  • Inconsistent

You're all over the goddamn map here, and you're accusing me of making arguments from ignorance, and not understanding basic logic and reason.

It's pretty clear that you have no fucking clue what you're talking about, champ.

[–]GG_Henry -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wasting your time. I stop reading at dumb ass.