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[–]BashfluffWonderful Pegasister [スコア非表示]  (70子コメント)

Bullshit.

Hokes actively tried to get me to apologize for not liking their moderation the moment I got there. There wasn't a day that went by that Hokes said Scarlet, I, and occasionally Unconfidence were part of an conspiracy to bring them down whenever we said that we disagreed with Hokes.

You want to throw out that Hokes did minor things? You want to say that the rest of the mods did the same things? Be prepared for me to tell everyone what actually happened then, because you're lying, and I expected better.

  • Hokes would deliver speeches about mod solidarity whenever they were questioned or someone said something that they didn't agree with on this forum, trying to shame and guilt and yell them into line. Do you know why we did that? Because Hokes would use greentext to deliver their own opinions under the guise of official moderator response. Frequently, Hokes would try to get us banned from voting on mod decisions, from daily business to top mod.

  • Hokes drove off RaineyJ this was, the most polite, unassuming, soft-spoken person on the team, left crying, resigning without a word, and leaving this sub, because they felt the atmosphere was so oppressive, that they couldn't express their own opinion without getting beaten down.

  • You want to know what the rest of the team did yesterday? They justified what happened to her, and Mudbunny said, "How was I supposed to know?" instead of taking responsibility. Yeah, because when you have a mod that is repeatedly allowed to go outside of the rules and calls conspiracy on anyone who disagrees with them or shames them for having opinions, who could feel unwelcome, eh?

  • Hokes went outside the rules. They claimed to have executive power and would remove posts that other moderators voted to approve, only saying that "I couldn't allow this thread to stand." or, "I can't trust you to enforce the rules, so I have to do it myself." They tried to enforce the moratorium before all votes were in, which is what the last removed post was about.

  • They repeatedly insulted other users personally in mod mail and were never punished, with only one incident yesterday being the real crackdown, and even then, it was just a stern comment. Yeah, moderator accountability my fucking ass. Oh, and Hokes got warned for personally insulting one person in a thread months ago. Progress!

  • As soon as Hokes figured out that I was close to a certain person (my boyfriend), he continually insulted him and insisted I was leaking things to him, on top of a variety of other people with zero evidence, along with anyone else he disagreed with, including Scarlet and Unconfidence. Yeah, an actual witchhunt against people Hokes didn't like from someone who constantly cried 'WITCH' when it came to people Hokes didn't like disagreeing with them.

  • Hokes pushed an effort to allow no one to comment on the rule change (6), and not post the rules to the sidebar, insisting on a list of banned topics to be updated. Did I mention that Hokes pushed for the moratorium to protect someone after we'd have CP discussions continually without anyone objecting? Because, hey, what's an open discussion forum for both sides without a list of banned topics banned for questionable reasons whenever it's convenient for one side?

  • After Mudbunny said that Scarlet and I could stay in the off-site mod talk board in the non-mod topics, Hokes banned Scarlet for hosting a tell-all AMA where he exposed Hokes' behavior. Mudbunny didn't see the problem. More than that, the justification Hokes used for banning Scarlet wasn't even something that he said, but another user, and was merely about Judge stepping down. Yeah, not even on the scale of what I've told you guys, but Mudbunny wouldn't DARE try to do any of that shit to me in my thread, because deep down, he knows it's wrong.

  • The best part? Mudbunny just didn't check who had said what had gotten Scarlet banned. Hokes was just allowed to ban one of his critics for no reason, and Mudbunny saw no reason to be suspicious and never apologized for doing it. None of the other remaining mods gave a shit either. Hey, why should I be surprised?

You're fucking kidding me, Mudbunny, if you want to say that any mod did ANY of what you're claiming they did. Take some damn responsibility. Because you seemed to eager to do so here:

http://imgur.com/a/mK1GD

Yeah. No one did what Hokes did, and no one cared because they had no interest in holding anyone to account. What they did was deplorable, and the only crackdown was on anyone speaking out. You said that you would take responsibility, and you're still covering up for Hokes.

It's despicable.

I should have stopped Hokes from accusing those who disagreed with them as being part of a witch hunt. Sometimes, disagreement was simply a disagreement.

Yes, only sometimes, and Hokes only accused those who disagreed with them as being part of a witch hunt, not him creating an environment of constant baseless accusations of conspiracies, including continued efforts to name his critics as people leaking modmail content or doing the work of other users to the point where RaineyJ felt so beaten down and afraid to speak that she left silently, crying and feeling like no one ever cared about her contribution to the team. Oh, and only sometimes a disagreement was a disagreement.

You'll say to my face that I tried so hard to work with Hokes and that you failed as a top mod to let things happen this way, that you didn't step in and solve the problem, but around here, you're content to shove it under the rug, downplay it, and blatantly lie about what happened.

Fuck you.

. I should have stopped people trying to get Hokes disciplined for every minor thing that they do a lot sooner.

Oh yes, all of those things I listed? Minor things that everyone did, apparently. Not even remotely true, but hey, feel free to parrot what Hokes said in Slack yesterday and say it's your own opinion, despite it being entirely false.

[–]baaliscoming [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

The best part? Mudbunny just didn't check who had said what had gotten Scarlet banned. Hokes was just allowed to ban one of his critics for no reason, and Mudbunny saw no reason to be suspicious and never apologized for doing it. None of the other remaining mods gave a shit either. Hey, why should I be surprised?

is scarlet banned?

[–]SpawnzerReSpekt my authoritah! [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

From our mod chat on slack, not from here

[–]judgeholden72 [スコア非表示]  (28子コメント)

You want to know what the rest of the team did yesterday? They justified what happened to her,

Honestly, I still don't even know what happens, and I do consider that a problem.

[–]BashfluffWonderful Pegasister [スコア非表示]  (27子コメント)

Judge, you were there when it happened. I saw you talk. Why didn't you say anything? I know you, and I know this is a problem for you, but why not solve it?

[–]judgeholden72 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I literally have no clue what you're talking about.

Here's the thing with me and slack - it doesn't work on my work PC. Nearly all of my posting is done at work, which is why I make maybe 5 or 6 posts most weekends.

So I have to slack on my phone. A Windows Phone, which means the Slack apps don't work much. And it's obvious when I'm not doing work, since my phone is in my hand.

As a result, I miss a lot of stuff in slack. Sometimes I pop open the app and there are 200-300 unread messages in General. And the app starts me at the bottom without telling me how far up to scroll.

On top of this, during redundant drama unlikely to get resolved my eyes would glaze over.

So, honestly, no clue what happened. None. I thought Rainey was just a quiet mod, like so many others we've had. Or uninterested.

This isn't an excuse, just an explanation. I reached out apologizing. Even not knowing what happened is awful and inexcusable enough.

[–]judgeholden72 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I like that when I say "I was wrong," someone comes in and calls me disingenuous.

[–]SHOW_ME_YOUR_GOATSMakes Your Games [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This has turned into just the latest witch hunt. Its bull shit drama.

[–]StolenHodor2 [スコア非表示]  (22子コメント)

And you did something? You talk a HUGE GAME for someone that did fuck all to stop the toxic cesspit when you had a chance. Just flounce the fuck off already.

[–]BashfluffWonderful Pegasister [スコア非表示]  (21子コメント)

Yeah, I did. I tried every day. That's what people complained about, that Scarlet, unconf, and I did what we could constantly to solve this, but we never could.

[–]StolenHodor2 [スコア非表示]  (20子コメント)

Right, you tried so hard that you will be unable to point to a single public statement you made trying before you flounced the fuck off.

Go ahead, show me.

[–]BashfluffWonderful Pegasister [スコア非表示]  (19子コメント)

Why would it be in public?

[–]StolenHodor2 [スコア非表示]  (18子コメント)

So your "try[ing] so hard" was limited to whining in private?

Why the fuck would anyone out here in the actual sub give a shit what was going on in your private toxic cesspool if it had no impact on this sub at all?

[–]BashfluffWonderful Pegasister [スコア非表示]  (17子コメント)

I'm not saying that it didn't. It certainly did have an impact on this subreddit, but public statements aren't the way for mods to resolve private issues. I'm not a mod anymore, so I don't care. Hell, I just want people to know what's going on, is all, so they're all on the up and up, because I VERY much think that this subreddit is about to go downhill fast.

[–]StolenHodor2 [スコア非表示]  (16子コメント)

What impact? Be specific, by pointing to any example. Any example at all. Go ahead.

[–]Mnhjk1 [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

I thought you'd left? If you're gonna flounce, flounce - if you want to stay and air your grievances, don't get our hopes up by telling us you're leaving. Your drama mongering has been far worse for this sub than 1000 Hokes'.

[–]macinnebAnti-GG [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Your drama mongering has been far worse for this sub than 1000 Hokes'.

To be fair I don't think Hokes gives a fuck, as where Bashluff very clearly cares very much.

[–]None-Of-You-Are-Real [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Hokes mods twenty-five different subs that are indistinguishable from SRS, it's very clear that this person gives a lot of fucks. This person is obsessed.

[–]Janvsanti-pickle [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

And not giving a fuck is the worst sin of all, apparently.

[–]ashye [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

"Why don't you care and understand!?!? He wrote FIVE words about her while they were sleeping together!!"

[–]BashfluffWonderful Pegasister [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Mudbunny got my collaboration on this post because he asked and said that he was sorry and would be taking responsibility for all of the awfulness, as you've seen. I feel like it's worth weighing in, given that. I'm not participating in any other threads and am in this meta stuff only because I'm telling you it's all bullshit.

[–]woxxon [スコア非表示]  (17子コメント)

For real, do you guys not realize how pathetic this vendetta looks? Jesus, you're leaking PM's and all, fucking deplorable. Like, consider the stakes, and the scope of what you're talking about, for one second.

[–]cha0sPro-GG [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

So what you're saying is you're making a big deal over nothing. Oh wait, double standards, right? Double standards.

[–]woxxon [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm making a big deal over nothing? I don't really follow..

[–]BashfluffWonderful Pegasister [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

I don't give a damn. When someone gets hurt and people JUSTIFY the hurt, defend the people who hurt them, those people deserve what's coming, and I'm going to do whatever I can to make sure everyone knows it.

[–]baaliscoming [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I'd argue you're hurting your argument by straying from the more reserved but still very forceful initial resigning statement and diving headlong into a full bitter war over this.

that's been my reaction at least.

point where RaineyJ

this isn't the type of information i'd be comfortable sharing without their explicit agreement

[–]BashfluffWonderful Pegasister [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

They posted about it on my thread, and honestly, I'm caring less about being nice or polite or reserved when people get hurt and other people make excuses for it, cover it up, and refuse to take responsibility for it.

I know what you're saying, and I'm really not holding back anymore only because I've lost all respect for the staff and where the sub is going--censorship city--and the only reason I'm here, really, is to make sure that everyone knows what really went on. Because Mudbunny talked about how they would do that and take responsibility and all of this, and then blatantly DIDN'T.

Because you know what? I trusted Mudbunny to say shitty things about me that were true, admit the massive problems that went on, assign blame to where it belonged, and lay it all out there. I was going to come in here to say that yeah, I'm not blameless for fighting so hard or being so loose with my thoughts the other day, and that I'm happy that he decided to make an effort to be more open and honest.

But here I am, with that not happening, and with another person that I thought would be a good person turning out to just do this, and so why should I care?

[–]baaliscoming [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I'm caring less about being nice or polite or reserved when

I didn't actually say "I want you to be nice and polite and all that good stuff." I said "you're hurting your argument" at least in my eyes. That's important as i take your goal to be to convey information effectively (cue generic citation of yale professor kahan at culturalcognition) not simply vent. This additional stuff gives it more of a venting vibe which makes me more likely to discount it. my honest opinion.

obviously we can counter with concern troll allegations.

[–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

[removed]

    [–]theonewhowillbeAmbassador for the Neutral Planet[M] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

    Rule 2.

    [–]TusconOfMagebathtub with novelty skull shaped faucets [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    Fine. Edited.

    [–]theonewhowillbeAmbassador for the Neutral Planet[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    It's still just snark. Try starting over and making a real discussion point.

    [–]EwindalNewest Cool Kid [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Hey, some people care about right being right. Nothing wrong with that. The deal is only as big as it is to those of us that fit that bill.

    If someone says something that's demonstrably false, I'm going to go out of my way, within reason, of course, to demonstrate why it's false no matter the subject. That's just how I am.

    [–]Teuthex [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Did I mention that Hokes pushed for the moratorium to protect someone after we'd have CP discussions continually without anyone objecting? Because, hey, what's an open discussion forum for both sides without a list of banned topics banned for questionable reasons whenever it's convenient for one side?

    So much this.

    [–]peanutcrackers [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

    I think someone like Meow should return as head mod, if this sub is going to retain any neutral or pro-GG mods.

    Clearly this sub cannot not function as intended without different leadership.

    [–]BashfluffWonderful Pegasister [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    I'm not so sure I agree with the first part, but I'm warming up to the second.

    [–]peanutcrackers [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    There have been several waves mod quits and drama, and I feel that after a while, if everywhere the mod leadership goes smells like dog sh*t, they should check finally check under their own shoe?

    This sticky post is headed by the mod taking all the responsibility, but in its content its really trying to blame everyone else...well, except for mostly Hokes that is.

    [–]razorbeamz [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

    /u/Mudbunny, you're clearly being manipulated, if what Bash said is right. You should probably take some time to think about that.

    [–]apinkgayelephantThe Worst Former Mod [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

    OR you got no fucking clue what's going on and should stop backseat moderating. You should probably take some time to think about that.

    [–]razorbeamz [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    should stop backseat moderating

    Oh the irony of you saying that.

    [–]apinkgayelephantThe Worst Former Mod [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    You want me to go into the armchair psychology of your comment too?

    [–]BashfluffWonderful Pegasister [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Razorbeamz, stop. No one is being manipulated. Mudbunny...I'm not pleased with Mudbunny right now, but Mudbunny's only fault is that he was too busy to do what he should have done, and hoped that people could resolve it themselves.

    [–]mudbunnyGrumpy Grandpa[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

    Hokes would deliver speeches about mod solidarity whenever they were questioned or someone said something that they didn't agree with on this forum, trying to shame and guilt and yell them into line. Do you know why we did that? Because Hokes would use greentext to deliver their own opinions under the guise of official moderator response. Frequently, Hokes would try to get us banned from voting on mod decisions, from daily business to top mod.

    And the rest of the mod team told hokes that this was not the way that it worked. That just because you were new, or did not like hokes was not a reason for removal of your right to vote in decisions. Every single time Hokes tried this, they were told by someone else that they couldn't do that. I told them, saint told them, judge told them. Everyone told them.

    Hokes drove off RaineyJ this was, the most polite, unassuming, soft-spoken person on the team, left crying, resigning without a word, and leaving this sub, because they felt the atmosphere was so oppressive, that they couldn't express their own opinion without getting beaten down.

    I went back through slack as far back as I could. And I saw nothing that would give me any sort of clue as to what you are talking about. Raineyj was very quiet in Slack. But you know what, a lot of people are. That is compounded by the fact that there were/are a lot of people who took up a lot of room. I know I sure as hell did with my walls of text. So did you, scarlet, hokes. I (and I assume everyone else) assumed that they were just quiet. They gave no indication (except for the 30 or so minutes before she left) that she did not feel comfortable. I am not a not mind reader. If no-one says something is wrong, I have no idea that it is wrong. We are all mature adults, I expected people to, if there was a problem, come to me and let me know so I could try and do something.

    Hokes went outside the rules. They claimed to have executive power and would remove posts that other moderators voted to approve, only saying that "I couldn't allow this thread to stand." or, "I can't trust you to enforce the rules, so I have to do it myself." They tried to enforce the moratorium before all votes were in, which is what the last removed post was about.

    And they were told that was unacceptable by the rest of the mods, unanimously, and that if it continued, they would be brought up, again, to mod discipline. But I do find it interesting that you are not pointing any fingers at Scarlet. Heck, if we are pointing fingers about Hokes enforcing the moratorium before it was fully voted on, do we also get to point fingers at people who, after the moratorium, were allowing posts that clearly had topics that fell under the moratorium?

    They repeatedly insulted other users personally in mod mail and were never punished, with only one incident yesterday being the real crackdown, and even then, it was just a stern comment. Yeah, moderator accountability my fucking ass. Oh, and Hokes got warned for personally insulting one person in a thread months ago. Progress!

    Modmail has always been a bit freer with language than the forums. ALWAYS. And when Hokes would cross the line, they would be regularly told that it was not acceptable. That was why Hokes very rarely commented in modmail, because inevitably, they would cross the line. When they did, they would be told to cool it. But you know what is interesting, I crossed the line a couple of times. Not a peep by anyone else. I am pretty sure others have done so as well, and not a peep. But as soon as Hokes does it, it was the end of the world.

    (Note, The rest of the points will be responded to after evening stuff with my family. RL is more important than the internet, dontchaknow)

    [–]BashfluffWonderful Pegasister [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    And the rest of the mod team told hokes that this was not the way that it worked.

    No, Saint did that once after he said he was stepping down. That you didn't move forward or encourage Hokes does not mean you did that. It happened again and again and again without any attempt to stop it. Do you know how I know that? Because of what happened to Rainey. Rainey left because Hokes would do it endlessly without anyone saying a word, so anyone who reads this obviously knows that you're not telling the truth here. Because that never would have happened if you were telling the truth!

    They gave no indication (except for the 30 or so minutes before she left) that she did not feel comfortable. I am not a not mind reader. If no-one says something is wrong, I have no idea that it is wrong.

    I'll say now what I said to you then. It's your job to know. When you allow for someone to cry 'witch' whenever someone expresses an opinion they disagree with, to constantly slander them with false accusations for it, to go outside the rules without punishment, and to ignore wrongdoing, you don't have to wonder why people didn't feel comfortable. You're the leader. Act like it.

    And they were told that was unacceptable by the rest of the mods, unanimously, and that if it continued, they would be brought up, again, to mod discipline.

    One time, they were warned, and that was for calling someone transphobic. When we brought their continued activities to mod trangressions, people would continue to distract from the subject and refused to vote. But yes, total accountability and discipline, right. No, what happened was that it was ignored, Hokes got worse, and three of your mods left, one in tears. Tell me all about your mod discipline, Mudbunny. Tell me some more. You're lying transparently now.

    But I do find it interesting that you are not pointing any fingers at Scarlet.

    When did I say I didn't? Because I did in this forum call out Scarlet for what they did wrong, and I'll do it again for what Scarlet did wrong, what I did wrong--which I've taken responsibility for, too. There's only one real person for who hasn't owned up to what they should be responsible for, and that's you! For explaining away and outright lying about this stuff. Well, and Hokes, but I can't expect a miracle.

    Heck, if we are pointing fingers about Hokes enforcing the moratorium before it was fully voted on

    Don't forget deleting your post without saying a word, again, violating the rules, before it was voted on, with the only justification being, "I can't trust you not the violate the rules, so I'm going to act on my own to do it."

    do we also get to point fingers at people who, after the moratorium, were allowing posts that clearly had topics that fell under the moratorium?

    I never saw that, but if that happened, then yes! He was never brought into mod transgressions, so it's nothing I've seen. It's your job to take him there if he violates the rules! Did you? Then don't complain that I didn't say anything about it, because you never took him to mod transgressions so I could see it.

    Modmail has always been a bit freer with language than the forums. ALWAYS. And when Hokes would cross the line, they would be regularly told that it was not acceptable.

    Not at all true.

    That was why Hokes very rarely commented in modmail

    Also, not true. He was called out for his behavior, for once, just yesterday. Are you even trying anymore...?

    But you know what is interesting, I crossed the line a couple of times. Not a peep by anyone else.

    You asked me if you violated the rules, and I said no. Other people came forward and said that you did not. What do you want from me, to lie? Did you want me to say you violated the rules when I thought you didn't? Why don't you paste whatever comment you think did that you asked me to rule on that I said no to, and we'll see what these people think.

    I am pretty sure others have done so as well, and not a peep. But as soon as Hokes does it, it was the end of the world.

    Show me the evidence of that. I've yet to see it. Because you have never, like yesterday, responded to a genuine question about the rules in modmail to, "Stop trying to rules lawyer and get a life or take it back to KiA." like Hokes did. Yesterday. Are you going to say you did that? That happened yesterday, for Christ's sake. No, you didn't, and you know it!

    [–]baaliscoming [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    RL is more important than the internet, dontchaknow)

    burn the heathen