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3/4thsIncorrect data (i.imgur.com)
fakeshits が 3時間前 投稿
[–]xAy3x 486ポイント487ポイント488ポイント 2時間前 (45子コメント)
Because boys rule and girls drool
[–]username1338 74ポイント75ポイント76ポイント 1時間前 (2子コメント)
woohoo
[–]Rumbo1 60ポイント61ポイント62ポイント 1時間前 (38子コメント)
Girls go to jupiter to get more dumber boys go to earth to get more smarter. Edit: forgot how it went
[–]LemonZips 45ポイント46ポイント47ポイント 1時間前 (14子コメント)
Girls go to Jupiter to get more dumber stupider. Boys go to earth college to get more smarter knowledge.
[–]japantz 42ポイント43ポイント44ポイント 17分前 (2子コメント)
your mom goes to college.
[–]A1cntrler 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 17分前 (5子コメント)
And we all know knowledge is more important than having a Lamborghini in the Hollywood Hills.
[–]delithug 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 12分前 (4子コメント)
I only have 47 Lamborghinis in my Lamborghini account
[–]BubblingMonkey 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 9分前 (0子コメント)
That's a lot of cigarettes you decided to stop smoking and save the money for.
[–]ElJefe10 33ポイント34ポイント35ポイント 1時間前 (16子コメント)
Girls go to Jupiter to get more stupider, boys go to mars to get candy bars.
[–]taint_stain 15ポイント16ポイント17ポイント 39分前 (12子コメント)
I thought girls went to Venus.
[–]kholl1day 29ポイント30ポイント31ポイント 32分前 (9子コメント)
Girls go to Venus, to chop off their penis.
[–]Hip_Hop_Orangutan 21ポイント22ポイント23ポイント 26分前 (8子コメント)
Only the ones named Bruce
[–]BisexualWarlizard 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 24分前 (7子コメント)
... Wayne ?
[–]bullet4mv92 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 21分前 (6子コメント)
.... Brady?
[–]moldy1 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 19分前 (4子コメント)
... Marsha?
[–]gregrawry 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 18分前 (3子コメント)
[–]conitation 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 36分前 (0子コメント)
Hey now, everyone likes to go to Venus once in a while.
[–]Skunz09 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 27分前 (0子コメント)
Girls go to Venus to get that penis
[–]rumpledstiltskins 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 22分前 (0子コメント)
If girls went to Uranus, you'd know it.
[–]XxDrummerChrisX 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 21分前 (0子コメント)
Man this sounded cooler as a kid
[–]thewife2 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 28分前 (0子コメント)
Boys go to Jupiter to get more stupider, girls go to college to get more knowledge
[–]archer66 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 17分前 (0子コメント)
Girls go to Venus to get a penis. Boys go to Regina to get a vagina.
[–]LandmanCA 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 24分前 (0子コメント)
Go team Penis!!
[–]8bhizzel8 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 20分前 (0子コメント)
Watch out for P.C. Principal. Woo Woo
[–]LaLongueCarabine 995ポイント996ポイント997ポイント 2時間前 (166子コメント)
They wouldn't. That's why this often cited figure is bullshit.
[–]BigNikiStyle 294ポイント295ポイント296ポイント 1時間前 (131子コメント)
Politifact agrees.
[–]Rinkydinky 92ポイント93ポイント94ポイント 1時間前 (111子コメント)
How'd that statistic even come about? Maybe less women are working full time because you know kids...
[–]smithsp86 230ポイント231ポイント232ポイント 59分前 (89子コメント)
If you split up all the full time workers by gender, add up their collective paychecks, and divide by the number of workers in each group the number you get for women is about 75% of what you get for men. The problem is that people use this fact that women earn less than men as evidence of discrimination when all it really shows is that men are more likely to seek employment in high paying fields.
[–]mastersword130 100ポイント101ポイント102ポイント 49分前 (54子コメント)
Or also work in jobs that a lot of women won't do like being a garbage collector, plumber, and or electrician.
[–]thiney49 98ポイント99ポイント100ポイント 39分前 (2子コメント)
Which is part of the higher paying jobs category.
[–]Konker101 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 7分前 (1子コメント)
seriously, its like $40/h for a garbageman, id do it if i didnt mind smelling like garbage for the rest of the day.
[–]duffmanhb 23ポイント24ポイント25ポイント 37分前 (0子コメント)
Or have the tendency to be further advanced into their careers, because men don't get pregnant and take off long periods from work. Also, men tend to push harder for career advancement once they have a child, while women slow it down, so they can pay more attention towards the child.
[–]Leandover 30ポイント31ポイント32ポイント 39分前 (32子コメント)
there are a lot of jobs that women do that men don't, nursing, early years teaching, psychologist, social workers, and others.
The point is that comparably skilled female-dominated jobs tend to get paid less than the male-dominated ones.
Maybe men are better at demanding more money.
[–]DracoGriffin 11ポイント12ポイント13ポイント 23分前 (0子コメント)
This is actually something that came up in one of my wife's nursing courses. Majority of men that had/were becoming nurses were trying to elevate the field/occupation for more money/recognition (as well as more involved/empowering nursing unions), while majority of women that had/were becoming nurses were going into the occupation for a good paying career to help people ("answer their calling").
Class had to research and write papers as to why the "phenomenon" was occurring, how it is both helping/hurting the nursing field, and how they (the class as nursing students) would solve the issue. I believe at the end the instructors explained they (the nursing students) should both be seeking to help people but also to be recognized/rewarded for their hard work. (Basically, the "male goals" & "female goals" for those going into nursing should be both; not one or the other, for a more gender neutral approach.)
[–]myrealnamewastakn 20ポイント21ポイント22ポイント 24分前 (6子コメント)
bingo. men are 4 times more likely to ask for a raise and the raise they ask for is higher than what women ask. testosterone leads to greater risk taking. It's biological.
http://www.npr.org/2011/02/14/133599768/ask-for-a-raise-most-women-hesitate
[–]rosalynleah 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 11分前 (0子コメント)
Women are less likely to ask for raises and negotiate job offers because of how they are treated when they do.
[–]virginiadentata 10ポイント11ポイント12ポイント 24分前 (1子コメント)
Yes. This is a major issue. Women are much less likely to negotiate their salaries than men are, and are less likely to ask for raises.
[–]chazirish 8ポイント9ポイント10ポイント 28分前 (8子コメント)
But are they paid less because they are female dominated, or because, for the most part, society doesn't value those jobs as much?
[–]Leandover 10ポイント11ポイント12ポイント 26分前 (2子コメント)
but does society not value the jobs BECAUSE they are female-dominated? 'Feminine' jobs, such as care, are very important.
[–]chazirish 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 14分前 (0子コメント)
Let me just be sure I understand what you are saying. Are you saying that the reason that the jobs aren't valued is because they are female dominated?
In general the financial value of a job is dependent on the amount of training required, the difficulty(physical or mental) of the job, and the supply of people willing to do the job versus how many people are needed to do the job.
[–]CrotalusHorridus 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 29分前 (0子コメント)
I've read somewhere that this is part of the problem. Men are much more likely to negotiate a salary. Also, women take more time out of the workforce for childbirth. Missing yearly COLAS and raises that their male counterparts receive.
[–]mastersword130 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 33分前 (4子コメント)
Well I can understand why males won't do early years of teaching. More likely to be called a pedo or a pervert if a parent doesn't like you or joked about from the kids.
Also I'm sure there are more men in those fields than women in the fields I mentioned.
[–]Crotch_Snorkel 24ポイント25ポイント26ポイント 39分前 (6子コメント)
Or even more professional jobs, women usually test high on scantrons but perform poorly in practicals... meaning it's quite possible some occupations men are better at, and are probably paid commission. For example. My sister and I are both Chiropractors. I am more successful than she is because I can adjust a lot more patients, and I am physically bigger and stronger than she is so she can't do all the same things that I can, but I can do everything she can. We earn the exact same as far as % of commission goes, but I earn a lot more each year because I do more work than she does.
[–]EnigmaXVII 28ポイント29ポイント30ポイント 33分前 (4子コメント)
I do more work than she does.
U WOT M8? U SEXIST?
[–]therhymerr 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 23分前 (3子コメント)
EZA FUKIN PIG TATS WHAT. MALSHOVANIST TO THE DEPTHS WITH YA
[–]EnigmaXVII 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 16分前 (2子コメント)
I like you.
[–]therhymerr 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 13分前 (1子コメント)
E tu brute
[–]wozowski 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 35分前 (3子コメント)
Actual feminism stolen from a post labelled as such, not my credit.
[–]mastersword130 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 29分前 (0子コメント)
Good for them, first time I've ever seen women garbage collectors even if it's only on the internet.
[–]Lowman22 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 6分前 (0子コメント)
They are the cleanest garbage collectors I've ever seen. Not one speck of grime on em'
[–]Toribor 33ポイント34ポイント35ポイント 37分前 (1子コメント)
You're exactly right. You see a lot more men in engineering positions for example, which is also related to the type of degree that is more common with men or women.
The pay difference is just a downstream effect. The potential issue is maybe women are discouraged from specific degrees and career paths. Either they don't feel welcome or they don't consider certain career choices that are currently dominated by men. I work in a building with about 2000 engineers in it, and there isn't more than a few women per floor. The building across from me has a bunch of HR positions and it only has a few men per floor. Typically speaking, we make a lot more money over here than the other building, but if you're only comparing genders the data looks really skewed.
[–]GimletOnTheRocks 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 13分前 (0子コメント)
Don't have link handy, but of:
1) 10 highest paying college majors, 9 are mostly male.
2) 10 lowest paying college majors, 9 are mostly female.
[–]observer_december 12ポイント13ポイント14ポイント 23分前 (2子コメント)
And antifeminists misunderstand that the majority of feminists don't think that the figure is due to willful discrimination. We're interested in how society pushes men and women into these different roles, and whether or not unintentional sexism in the workplace plays a significant role.
[–]P_V_ 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 12分前 (0子コメント)
Yeah, the actual evidence of discrimination comes about when you account for difference in hours worked, education, ethnicity, type of work, and just about every other conceivable factor and still discover that there's a discrepancy in what men and women are paid. That discrepancy isn't 77%, and it varies from job to job, but it's still there in most cases.
The notion that "men are more likely to seek employment in high paying fields" itself raises questions: What is it about these higher-paying fields that attracts men and discourages women? Why are women socialized into seeking roles that pay less money? In some cases the answers for these questions do amount to legitimate issues of choice, but that's not always the case.
[–]Helpful_guy 8ポイント9ポイント10ポイント 27分前 (2子コメント)
Additionally, it's worth mentioning that pay rates among similarly educated men and women who have not taken maternity leave are generally within 2% of each other, with women making more in some cases. The issue is not "women make less than men for doing the same job" it's that "women are generally less likely to pursue higher education in STEM fields" and "woman are much more likely to leave their job to raise a family" and when they come back to the job force they have been out of employment for years, and don't have nearly as much work experience as men in the same age bracket.
[–]BigNikiStyle 21ポイント22ポイント23ポイント 52分前 (5子コメント)
It's a comparison of median income, something like that. As a gender, men earn that much more. The statistic doesnt compare specific jobs. So say more women are GPs and more men are surgeons. Well, surgeons earn a lot more than GPs, but the data is presented as 'male doctors earn more than female doctors. Apparently, the gap is about 5-7%, and that gap can be largely attributed to differences between how men and women negotiate their wages.
[–]Zifnab25 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 30分前 (3子コメント)
The statistic doesnt compare specific jobs.
Even broken down by different jobs, women make less. Female doctors make less than male doctors. Female accountants make less than male accountants. Female lawyers make less than male lawyers. Etc, etc.
There are a lot of reasons for the split. One driving force is the expectation that women will leave the workforce if they get pregnant. So women are passed over for promotions and denied entrance into some of the more coveted jobs, because their bosses are worried they won't stay on the career track.
But this creates a vicious cycle. Male bosses won't promote women, because kids. Women who can't get promoted decide a career won't displace the cost of child care. Women leave the workforce and raise their kids, because it's more cost-efficient than staying in a dead-end job. Men see the current crop of women leave the workforce and conclude "Better not promote the next crop of female hires". Lather, rinse, repeat.
[–]chazirish 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 26分前 (0子コメント)
Apparently, the gap is about 5-7%
When all variables are accounted for the gap is actually like 2%.
[–]tocamix90 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 24分前* (0子コメント)
The 2006 census. It then raised in 2013 to .79 cents.
Legit News Story
2014 Census on Income and Poverty
Saying women have less degrees than men is also wrong
[–]GTA_Stuff 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 39分前 (0子コメント)
There's also a statistical discrepancy in the types of jobs included in the studies. For example, many high-paying high risk jobs (oil rig stuff or drilling or deep sea related things) are dominated by men. And professional sports figures who command enormous salaries also get factored in and there are no female equivalents.
But when compared job to job, there's usually a negligible salary difference.
[–]NakedAndBehindYou 10ポイント11ポイント12ポイント 48分前 (1子コメント)
How'd that statistic even come about?
Democrats pandering to uninformed women voters.
[–]RockFourFour 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 31分前 (0子コメント)
Someone downvoted you, but that is at least one part of it. The president isn't an idiot, and can presumably read an abstract, yet he's cited this wage gap as fact himself.
[–]Byte_the_hand 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 51分前 (0子コメント)
The statistic is total wages for women, divided by total women. The same for men. So the fact that men go into higher paying occupations at a higher rate, skews the numbers in their favor.
When looking at two workers at the same company, same job, same experience, the differences are very small.
[–]Zoesan 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
The statistic only looks at fulltime workers.
[–]RockFourFour 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 34分前 (0子コメント)
Because people (presumably intentionally) completely ignored the actual findings of the BLS survey they cite. The survey found that was the average without taking into account any of the variables.
[–]chemistry_teacher 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 20分前 (0子コメント)
There was once a time when it was true.
[–]TedTheGreek_Atheos 25ポイント26ポイント27ポイント 53分前 (11子コメント)
The article says that the "77 cents on the dollar" statement is false but it says that a pay gap definitely exists.
[–]BigNikiStyle 42ポイント43ポイント44ポイント 48分前 (7子コメント)
Sure, but it is probably better to call it a 'higher earning employment gap' than a 'wage gap.' The 77 cent figure makes it sound like a man and a woman get the same job in a factory and the woman is summarily paid 77% of what the man makes. This is false.
[–]SJHillman 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 43分前 (0子コメント)
It also gives a number of different reasons for why it exists. The reason it's such a big issue is because people claim women are paid less simply because they are women. However, the article points out a number of other (and more likely) explanations. In the end, it concludes that there is simply no way to make a good apples-to-apples comparison... so it's still largely unknown if there is a true pay gap between men and women in equal positions.
[–]mattbrunstetter -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 16分前 (1子コメント)
Bernie Sanders is one of those notable people.
[–]Angry_Apollo 49ポイント50ポイント51ポイント 1時間前 (18子コメント)
Women get paid less because they haven't been in the workforce as long, they take maternity leave, and many professions that pay higher are male-dominated such as science and engineering. A position has a defined salary upon hiring regardless of if a man or woman fills the job.
[–]StabbyDMcStabberson 28ポイント29ポイント30ポイント 37分前 (8子コメント)
many professions that pay higher are male-dominated such as science and engineering.
And on the less glamorous side of higher paying jobs, you have dangerous work and grueling manual labor where they have to pay more or no one would be willing to do the work.
[–]Emperor_of_Cats 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 24分前 (0子コメント)
I came from a mining community. Relative to other jobs, the mines pay wonderfully...but you have to work long hours, have to change shifts unexpectedly, and if you work in a deep mine, you don't get to see anything but rock faces and can't stand up straight for hours on end.
It was really the only non-minimum wage job in the area beyond a few other jobs (teaching was probably the other fairly common high-paying job.)
And you also go through washing machines and dryers like none other unless you wash your work clothes in a laundromat (highly recommended.)
[–]RockFourFour 19ポイント20ポイント21ポイント 30分前 (6子コメント)
This is called the "Glass Basement". You don't hear about people wanting to get women into more dirty/dangerous jobs.
[–]TEmpTom 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 22分前 (5子コメント)
Yes you do. There's a massive movement to get more women into trade professions like plumbing or auto-maintenance. There's also a movement to allow more women in the military into active combat duties, as well as join certain branches, previously male exclusive, like the USMC.
[–]RockFourFour 12ポイント13ポイント14ポイント 18分前* (3子コメント)
A massive movement? Eh, I don't think so.
And the 'getting women into combat roles' schitck is misleading. I was in Iraq in 2006, and we had women right there with us. Support MOSes have always been right there on the front lines, and have often done front line duties. See Jessica Lynch, 2003. It's a marketing ploy.
EDIT: to those who are downvoting me because you disagree, show me where I'm wrong. Did I imagine our female medic? Did I imagine our female mechanics? Did I imagine when they would go on route clearance missions and be our gunners?
[–]BladeLiger 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 12分前 (0子コメント)
You've got my upvote man.
[–]Cartesian_Duelist 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 18分前 (0子コメント)
There's a massive movement to get more women into trade professions like plumbing or auto-maintenance.
Yeah, the highest paid, easiest-in-terms-of-strain blue collar work is indeed alluring, but I wouldn't call it massive especially.
[–]Koooooj 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 19分前 (0子コメント)
The figure is true only insofar as it is used with all of the appropriate caveats. It's a figure about the total earnings of full time workers, not about equal pay for equal work. The figure is important when looking at society as a whole—"why are women being pushed towards lower paying fields?" and the like—but isn't applicable on the individual employer level.
When you do look at equal pay for equal work women still come out behind. It's a much harder topic to research since quantifying "equal work" is difficult, and it's a much smaller gap since this is only one of the things that leads to an overall pay gap. However, it is widely believed among experts that a gap still exists.
This leaves us with OP's brilliant argument for why no gap should exist, juxtaposed with the observation that one does. Where's the resolution? Are the experts secret SJW agents? Is there some conspiracy to try to get women overcompensated for jobs? No. The problem is OP's argument is complete and total bullshit.
The whole premise of discrimination is that it's letting one's prejudices and emotions get in the way of logical thinking. If someone thinks that women are bad at math then they'll require a little extra push to hire a woman for a math-heavy role than hiring a man. Whether this is the woman accepting a lower offer or needing better qualifications, the idea of equal pay for equal work has been broken.
This isn't something where every hiring manager has a vendetta against women. It's likely not overt at all, since most people would be quick to say that they'd never make a decision like this and if it could ever be proven on the individual level then that's a lawsuit waiting to happen. Even good people still have their biases, though, and these biases can cause effects like the pay gap on a societal level.
[–]Spreadsheeticus 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 23分前 (0子コメント)
Survey says you play a risky game /u/LaLongueCarabine :)
[–]moeburn 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 16分前 (0子コメント)
Which isn't to say that there aren't any industries or businesses that discriminate against and pay less to women. It's just not 77 cents on the dollar for the whole country.
[–]Yossi25 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 15分前 (0子コメント)
Bernie Sanders doesn't think so.
[–]TravisCan 241ポイント242ポイント243ポイント 3時間前 (91子コメント)
Because how many women do you see digging trenches, breaking up rocks, pouring concrete, or climbing power poles?
Let's also take the computer / engineering field ratio and see how it compares.
[–]theraf8100 295ポイント296ポイント297ポイント 1時間前 (23子コメント)
I know plenty of women who climb poles.
[–]eof 116ポイント117ポイント118ポイント 57分前 (18子コメント)
Yeah and those girls are paid quite well.
[–]kevincredible22 80ポイント81ポイント82ポイント 49分前 (4子コメント)
I'd say about 1/4 of my income goes there so....let's call it even?
[–]DrobUWP 13ポイント14ポイント15ポイント 17分前 (2子コメント)
"for every dollar a man makes, a woman makes 75 cents. That's not fair. The man is only left with 25."
[–]whoreallycares- 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 47分前 (12子コメント)
Yeah where are the numbers for male strippers vs. female strippers or waiters vs waitress' or male prostitutes vs female prostitutes. I bet women make more money in those fields.
[–]taint_stain 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 37分前 (4子コメント)
I imagine the prostitute figure would favor men.
[–]silverpixiefly 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 43分前 (6子コメント)
What if they didn't? Would you be surprised? Have they even bothered to do studies on those industries?
[–]JazzinZerg 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 33分前 (2子コメント)
If they didn't, I wouldn't be suprised. Male strippers are, I'd guess, harder in general to come by, as such their price is going to be higher.
[–]ArabIDF 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 25分前 (1子コメント)
They're harder to come by because there's less demand for male strippers. That doesn't mean they get paid better.
Male porn stars for example get paid much lower on average than female ones.
[–]Styrak 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 30分前 (0子コメント)
I think a lot of men have done studies on those industries.
[–]anothercarguy 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 22分前 (0子コメント)
I read one once but the way they control it is by changing how long the person is employed. Like those truck driver school commercials. They say average salary of 60k, but that doesn't happen till after the washout rate. Same with strippers. I will bet women will make way more but will not stay in the industry more than 2 years on the most part. SO if your cohort is strippers pay after 3 years, it is all the same, guys got better and women look like what you would expect. wages become equal.
[–]Dominigo 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 17分前 (0子コメント)
It's probably pretty tough getting a good study on the earnings of people working tip based jobs since a lot of people dont declare all their tips. Personally, though, I would be a little surprised if women weren't making more on average in those fields, though. Back when I was waiting tables, I worked my ass off and did a great job. Got regular compliments by guests and everything, but most of the women I worked with made at least as much as I did each night if not more. The ones who were actually good blew me out of the water on tips every time. When I was finally leaving, one of my managers was wanting to know why and everything like you expect. She asked me if it was money and how much I was making. She was visibly shocked when I told her. According to her, someone working at my level she would expect to be making about twice what I was in an hour. This is all anecdotal of course and may not hold true to the bigger picture, but my experience was that being a woman helped bring in the tips.
[–]TravisCan 11ポイント12ポイント13ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
I uh...
Ok. Take my upvote.
[–]Jabawocky 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 37分前 (0子コメント)
Yeah you know, Crystal, Cherry, Violet, OP's mom, Mercedes. All the ladies down at the watering hole.
[–]mcopper89 10ポイント11ポイント12ポイント 1時間前 (4子コメント)
In Alaska, for some reason most road crews are equal parts men and women. Even machine operators. Some of them are fairly young and dainty looking too. A lot of the groundskeepers at my university are also women <30. Alaska is definitely a bit different like that. I wonder how are wage gap looks.
[–]TravisCan 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 1時間前 (3子コメント)
Yeah, I have a friend in Juneau and she's told me that there just aren't a lot of Job's in Alaska.
You don't see a lot of offices moving to Alaska.
[–]mcopper89 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 57分前 (1子コメント)
That makes some sense. Here in Fairbanks, the service industry can never seem to keep positions filled. I have been here for three years and many of the retailers have had the same Help Wanted signs out since I got here. I think that is pretty normal for some employers, but walmart literally has a sign at each entrance with a laundry list of positions they need filled. They are clearly desperate for workers.
[–]Ancel3 34ポイント35ポイント36ポイント 54分前 (6子コメント)
The amount of male doctors and CEOs is WAY too high... But the amount of male construction workers, coal miners, garbagemen, and ditch diggers are perfectly fine.
[–]virginiadentata 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 18分前 (3子コメント)
There are demanding, low paying jobs dominated by women too: waitresses, nursing home workers, child care workers, etc.
[–]SnarfMcSnarfSnarf 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 45分前 (1子コメント)
One in my 17 year career in construction that was not holding a clipboard in a skirt.
[–]TravisCan 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 44分前 (0子コメント)
This is my point. Grew up doing construction and women always worked in the office. PM's or Supes.
I never once moved rocks with a woman unless she was the one telling me to do it.
[–]phishin4dogfacedboy 37ポイント38ポイント39ポイント 2時間前 (11子コメント)
None... they're all mexicans.
[–]AngriestCosmonaut 127ポイント128ポイント129ポイント 1時間前 (7子コメント)
TIL women can't be mexican
[–]gumpythegreat 34ポイント35ポイント36ポイント 1時間前 (3子コメント)
We need more lemon pledge
[–]StealthRR 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
No nooo... Noooo
[–]kiltedkiller 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 1時間前 (1子コメント)
Mexicans don't use pledge besides on TV. They use FABULOSO!
[–]Rhetor_Rex 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 26分前 (0子コメント)
It's a cleaner! It's a refreshing soft drink!
[–]madogvelkor 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
Right, they're Mejicana
[–]AsthmaticMechanic 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 52分前 (0子コメント)
No, no, you've got it all wrong. Mexicans can't be women.
[–]willard_saf 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 15分前 (0子コメント)
Til I'm Mexican
[–]5_sec_rule 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 27分前 (0子コメント)
I would like to see more of them doing these types of jobs and sharing some of the load around here.
[–]afambelafonte 19ポイント20ポイント21ポイント 2時間前 (29子コメント)
Well, actually, my wife works as a HR manager at a road construction company, and she hires women as laborers. The bigger problem is that women get passed over for jobs as operators and usually get stuck in roles like traffic management, even though your body mass doesn't affect how well you can operate an excavator, and machine operators and foremen make more money than flaggers.
[–]TravisCan 30ポイント31ポイント32ポイント 2時間前* (4子コメント)
I'd like to see some numbers comparing how many women apply for a laborer position, and how many men.
I too, worked for a construction company. In 2011 we had over 3500 male applications and only 7 female applications for entry level construction work.
Let's hire those 7 and run our company because it's a quarter less.
[–]zebranitro 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 25分前 (0子コメント)
I'm such a nerd that I heard power pole and immediately thought Goku
[–]OG_Willikers 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 25分前 (0子コメント)
Check out the Wikipedia article.
[–]JustTurrble 75ポイント76ポイント77ポイント 57分前 (16子コメント)
The jobs that get taken by women most often tend to pay less than the jobs taken by men most often. A secretary gets paid the same no matter what body parts they have, but most secretaries are women. Similarly, a tech job gets the same pay, but most tech jobs are taken by men.
This statistic isn't about equal pay within a specific job: it's about diversity in the workforce. Women need better access and encouragement to enter STEM and other high-pay fields, instead of being pressured (however slight) by society to be teachers, nurses, and stay-at-home moms. Conversely, men need to suck it up and take on these typically female-led jobs if they have the skills and the bills to need one.
[–]brontide 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 12分前 (0子コメント)
Teaching is one of the most egregious examples where women kindergarten teachers make up 98% of the workforce. Calls for equality have gone unanswered due to a constant atmosphere of suspicion for males entering the elementary teaching profession. They face hurdles that most women do not. Women claim that any attempt to artificially rebalance the workforce would be discrimination.
OB nursing where some states still prohibit, by law, males in some settings because it might disturb the patient. Get over it already.
People should stop referring for the need of maternity leave since it's just reinforcing the stereotypes, we need paternity leave plain and simple. The father also needs the opportunity to stay at home either to care for the mother, child, or to allow the mother to return to work.
[–]ns156 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 30分前* (0子コメント)
The other major change that needs to happen is for the USA to get on board with the rest of the world and offer paid, mandatory maternity leave in all occupations so women don't have to choose between having children (which as it turns out, is a necessary function for our society to keep existing) and having a career. A big reason they have less work experience, more employment gaps, etc. and then therefore lower salaries is because they have to leave the workforce for babies. Paid paternity leave wouldn't hurt either, as it would allow men to stay home with the infant some so the woman could return to work earlier if she wanted to.
An interesting study would be to compare the gender pay gap in multiple countries, those with better mandated maternity benefits to those without.
[–]HydrogenxPi 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 22分前 (3子コメント)
Women need better access and encouragement to enter STEM and other high-pay fields
No they don't. Women have the exact same access to stem as men and tons of gender exclusive incentives
[–]moeburn 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 13分前 (0子コメント)
I'm not really sure what he means by "better access". I don't think there's any systemic discrimination or "boys club" attitude in most STEM fields, but there's also not enough women either. And that's weird. There's nothing that makes men inherently more suited to STEM fields physically, so why is it mostly men? Is it just a leftover remnant of the 20th century when STEM fields really were discriminatory?
[–]mackay92 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 17分前 (0子コメント)
Seriously, you know how many scholarships I had to sift through because I'm not a woman? If you are a woman who is entering the STEM field, you can essentially go for free if you find the right place.
[–]gold_locket 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 22分前 (0子コメント)
This should be higher up. That statistic isn't something to stand on without diving into the research. Stereotypes and stigmas still exist that are preventing women from getting into those higher paying jobs. This includes the lack of work-life balance, the lack of women in the C-suite, and the lack of giving women the opportunity or teaching them to pursue those opportunities. This is why the wage exists.
[–]Areostationary 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 29分前 (1子コメント)
Conversely, men need to suck it up and take on these typically female-led jobs if they have the skills and the bills to need one.
You're right, I'm gonna try for a career in Gender Studies!
[–]SmurfSawce 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 15分前 (0子コメント)
But your not a woman. I bet your a cis white male with a ton of privilege.
[–]LoveToHateMe666 128ポイント129ポイント130ポイント 1時間前 (17子コメント)
This has been proven untrue. Stop this myth. Men and woman are not paid differently by a significant amount for the same job. The myth started because woman make less because they work less. http://www.truthrevolt.org/commentary/feminist-equal-pay-myth-gets-debunked-thoroughly
[–]Electric_Soul 84ポイント85ポイント86ポイント 1時間前 (10子コメント)
The author of that piece featured all opinion and no facts. Just saying for credibility's sake, linking to a reputable source would be in your favor. Using words like "shrill" isn't really a very compelling use of his platform.
[–]OG_Willikers 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 24分前 (2子コメント)
Look at the Wikipedia article.
[–]scumbag-reddit 38ポイント39ポイント40ポイント 2時間前 (1子コメント)
Because that statistic is bullshit
[–]NOT_ah_BOT 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 58分前 (1子コメント)
Great OC
http://imgur.com/27tAncO
[–]NothingCrazy 28ポイント29ポイント30ポイント 58分前 (5子コメント)
The problem with "control for the job type" is that women are less likely to be promoted than men, so the gender discrimination baked into the cake is being ignored when you do this.
I know, Reddit loves to pretend discrimination isn't really a thing. But it is. The glass ceiling really is a thing. (As is the glass cliff.) Gender bias for distribution of responsibilities (and therefore, distribution of rewards) is a thing, as is the tendency of males to attribute a mixed group's success to males within the group. Males still greatly outnumber females in positions of authority in corporations, so this is a big problem that's very difficult to correct for.
A very small part of it is that females don't "negotiate as hard," but many who do find themselves stereotyped as "bitchy", and treated accordingly, whereas a male making the same arguments would just be "assertive" or even "leadership material."
The issue here, as always, is that when privilege is pointed out to those that possess it, the denial reflex is automatic. Rationalizations are automatic. Blaming the victim is automatic. Reddit, being the sausage-fest that it is, is of course going to come up with 100 reasons the pay gap is a myth, while ignoring the 1000 reasons it's not.
[–]tempforfather 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 26分前 (0子コメント)
The sad thing is most of the comments aren't even rationalizations as much as jokes about having do women's work twice, crying in the work place etc.
[–]andrewflux 29ポイント30ポイント31ポイント 3時間前 (3子コメント)
This will not get you laid. True as shit though.
[–]brobafett1980 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 1時間前 (2子コメント)
https://youtu.be/BDj_bN0L8XM
[–]ROTMGLilwern 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
Because they aren't.
[–]flee_market 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 49分前 (0子コメント)
Back in the early 1900s this was literally true - women and children were heavily employed instead of men precisely because they were paid less.
[–]Szzntnss 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 13分前 (0子コメント)
Because you get what you pay for... Sorry I'll see myself out.
[–]sophus00 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 11分前 (0子コメント)
I looked into this and it turns out women don't LITERALLY make 70/77 cents per dollar a man makes. That difference is more of an average, I think, across all full-time employees. IIRC a more common discrepancy is 90/95 cents per dollar, which, while still unfair, is less glaring. I can only speak from experience, where I had a job that paid 12.52 an hour to everyone, not just men. I don't know where the difference comes from, but we can't possibly live in a society where women automatically and definitively make a fraction of whatever their pay would be otherwise, like a 'lady tax.' Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
[–]Triggerer 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 11分前 (0子コメント)
Because this isn't true. The 3/4 statistic come from an average of all jobs. Historically more women than men have worked lower paying jobs like retail, food service etc. this drags down the average pay for women vs men. When you look at specific fields men and women with the same job skills, seniority and education make the same.
[–]2_Sheds_Jackson 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 7分前 (0子コメント)
Cost-Cutting Measures Force Company To Start Hiring More Female Employees
[–]nAmAri3 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 7分前 (1子コメント)
Someone watched Maddox
[–]CuzImAtWork 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 5分前 (0子コメント)
I work with a lot of engineers, and I only have 1 female colleague.
I'm 99% positive she makes more than me even though I have seniority (I never asked), and that's mainly due to the fact that she's the only one of us that has a PhD. She certainly doesn't make any less than the rest of us.
She's also awesome.
[–]DreWevans 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 4分前 (0子コメント)
The same reason why they might not hire a Jew or a black person--prejudice.
To give you some economics here... in a perfectly competitive markets (lots of sellers, all products are the same, etc.), you can't discriminate based on race, your company will fail. However, if your company has any "market power" where it sells a unique good (like Cocacola), it could theoretically discriminate and still make a profit. Discrimination can be an issuse in some markets, without question, even if it is a poor financial decision for the firm. How often does it happen? Research suggests that it is fairly unusual most of the time.
[–]kkehoe5 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 1時間前 (4子コメント)
Well someone has to replace the heavy water cooler bottle.
[–]ItPutsLotionOnItSkin 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 1時間前 (1子コメント)
And kill spiders.
[–]sithrebel15 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 42分前 (0子コメント)
I hate those. I'm always afraid I'm going to spill it when I flip it down.
[–]madogvelkor 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
The elderly janitor does in the office before I come in, every time. I'm like 20+ years younger than home and 10 inches taller... makes me feel like a wuss. I should just dump out the nearly empty bottle and replace it before he can...
[–]3ryanisland 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 17分前 (1子コメント)
I'm sure the comments on here are going to be well reasoned and very well articulated. I'm sure a lot of minds are going to be changed at the end of the day and that not a single person will lash out with anger at anybody else. I'm just going to sit back now and enjoy what I'm sure won't be a waste of everybody's time reading.
[–]adarkfable 16ポイント17ポイント18ポイント 3時間前 (20子コメント)
it evens out. that 1/4th pay increase is worth it. have you ever worked with all women? it's just pillow fights, ice cream, gossip sessions and quoting Gilmore Girls. That or a bunch of pregnant women having their periods at the same time complaining about the patriarchy. or breastfeeding their kids on the clock. it's just not worth it bro. hire men.
[–]waterbuffalo750 78ポイント79ポイント80ポイント 2時間前 (1子コメント)
Pregnant women on their periods? They should get that checked out.
[–]ItPutsLotionOnItSkin 20ポイント21ポイント22ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
That attracts bears.
[–]I_suck_at_naming 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 1時間前 (3子コメント)
I'd like to meet these gilmrore girls quoting women.. I'd pretty much deal with everything else.
I've worked with all women before, it actually wasn't too bad, but then again it was a diverse group, a 30-ish Polish girl, a 40 something black woman and a 60 something white woman.. and me a 20 something Mexican.
[–]adarkfable 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 1時間前 (2子コメント)
this is the beauty of generalizations. my experience working as the only male in a small law office (receptionist for about 5 or 6 ladies.) was drastically different than my experience working as the only male server at a steak house chain.
[–]I_suck_at_naming 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間前 (1子コメント)
so which one did you like better? I actually liked working with all women, now we have a dude and its just not the same, he's fun but now I can't talk junk about other women as before.
[–]adarkfable 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
the law office. BY FAR. the servers were all young, catty and ultra-competitive. it was tense. the lawyers were super chill. they all had their own personal space, and their practices never really interfered or mixed too much.
they were relaxed, cordial and very low-key. they ALWAYS remembered my birthday. it was a sweet gig.
[–]GroggyOtter 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
Because a company can't survive on only 1/2 the work getting done. ^ _ ^
[–]barto5 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 59分前 (4子コメント)
Quick question: If the premise is "Equal pay for equal work" why is the prize money for women tennis players the same as it is for men when women play best of 3 sets but men play best of 5? (At the majors).
Shouldn't the prize money for women be 3/5th's of what it is for men?
[–]Kadour_Z 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 41分前 (1子コメント)
You could make the argument that most of the work is while training, wich probably makes a few extra hours of some games seem negligible.
[–]lordxuqra 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 28分前 (0子コメント)
Alternatively you could look at the NBA vs WNBA. Sports are bad use cases in this talk because payment and winnings are based on popularity of the sport.
[–]Rhetor_Rex 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 23分前 (0子コメント)
Are you suggesting a 3/5ths compromise for Serena Williams?
[–]CuntyMcFagNuts69 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 2時間前 (10子コメント)
Men do jobs women won't. The pay gap is a fucking myth.
[–]ismellurpoo 20ポイント21ポイント22ポイント 2時間前 (4子コメント)
The pay gap is real! Male porn stars are only make about 1/4 of a female star's pay.
[–]CuntyMcFagNuts69 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
All men should do a strike from porn leaving only women
That'll show em
[–]dopestep 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 57分前* (1子コメント)
Unless they do gay porn. That's where the money is.
[–]AlterBridgeFan 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 25分前 (0子コメント)
And it's only gay, if the balls touch each other. If they aren't then it's just a bro helping another bro.
[–]PokemasterTT 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 28分前 (0子コメント)
http://www.kink.com/page/become-a-model not that bad if you bottom and even better for me as TS.
[–]cqm 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 2時間前* (0子コメント)
Because it isn't true across in-demand professions.
[–]Geroots 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 30分前 (0子コメント)
The scumbags who pay women less than men are the same ones who hire men over women. Many of them choose to pay women less because they see them as inferior workers.
[–]bobusdoleus 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 1時間前 (1子コメント)
The implication behind this statistic is that men don't see women as competent; It takes an entire 1/4 pay cut to justify hiring such a significantly less capable employee. That's what quoting the figure always meant; It was to indicate that employers are sexist, not that women are magically more efficient.
Whether the statistic is true in the first place, and whether the reasoning behind quoting it holds water, is a topic of much discussion recently.
[–]SirTyronne 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
Because having to do the job again would result in a 50% increase in pay.
boosh
[–]Count_Schlick 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 24分前 (0子コメント)
Recipe for paying your employees as little as you would like:
Step one: Slowly replace workplace with women at 3/4 the going rate for men.
Step two: New 3/4 rate becomes the norm when no men are left.
Step three: Start replacing your female workforce with men with equal pay for all. (3/4 the original rate)
Step four: Once your workforce is entirely male, start again at step one, paying women 3/4 of what the men earn, or (3/4)2 = 9/16 ~ 56% the original rate.
Repeat this process n times where (3/4)n+1 is less than the fraction of the original rate you would like to pay your employees to maximize profits.
[–]mundaneclipclop 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 18分前 (0子コメント)
From what I can gather that stat is a myth. It takes into account all the jobs men do and all the jobs women do, then comes up with an average wage which is skewed as there are more men in science and engineering based positions. Not to mention men work longer hours on average and are less likely to take time off. If we were to be fair we'd only look at men and women who are in similar roles and compare and contrast, if there was a clear disparity there then we could have a reasonable conversation but until then I imagine this myth will permeate.
[–]malkil 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 17分前 (0子コメント)
How every company in America can save 23% on wages
[–]AlabasterBear -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 2時間前 (0子コメント)
Because a majority of men do the tasks that the majority of women won't.
[–]Ranoik 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
The short of it is, how many women senators, representatives, CEO and other business executives, all the way down to the lowly general and store managers do we see who exist as women. 1/4 is a misleading thing to be sure, we don't actually pay women in power less than men (for the most part, some businesses do) but there are a LOT more men in a position of power than women, and those positions get paid more. So if you look at men and women as an aggregate of workers, men end up being paid 1/4 more per capita than women, because they have better jobs. And the reason they have better jobs is because we value the judgement of men more than women as a society and so we think men make better leaders and deserve to be paid more as a result.
That's the wage gap.
[–]MeerkatAttack 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
The 3/4's thing has been disproved.
[–]Blahbl4hblah 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 19分前 (0子コメント)
I see that the mens rights types have made a meme. Idiots.
[–]Aneides -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 2時間前* (3子コメント)
One of the arguments I've heard relates to child-bearing. Women that are of child-bearing age typically require more money for benefits such as health insurance. Also, many companies view having a women that may get pregnant as a liability since they will have to work with her during and after her pregnancy as well as the time off for maternity leave.
*Edit - I love being downvoted for pointing out something that is a fairly common business practice. I never said I agree with it, I just know it exists.
[–]top2percent -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 41分前 (0子コメント)
So... Fifty percent unemployment?
[–]onetrickwolf 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 35分前 (0子コメント)
I don't know much about this stat, but this logic is kind of flawed.
In some fields there is virtually no unemployment rate. If you don't have enough people to hire in the first place then you have no way to replace all of your male workers with female workers. And then in a lot of these same fields women make up a small percentage of the workforce which is why you don't see female dominated offices.
The second thing is that people don't bid on jobs. There's a salary and a worker in mind. If women are willing to accept less for that position, there's nothing telling the employer that. The job market is not a stock market.
I'm assuming the way this stat is derived is mostly from women being promoted but getting less of a raise, not taking less for the initial job.
Again, I'm no expert on this stat, but from what I understand it mostly comes down to women, for whatever reason, being worse at negotiating salary increases.
Also this is a practice. Companies do hire women because they know they can pay them less. You will find many offices entirely comprised of women where there are enough of them in that field.
[–]RedACE7500 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 35分前 (0子コメント)
OP's name is appropriate here.
[–]MikoTron 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 33分前 (0子コメント)
Because that statistic is not accurate when you compare correct figures. That percentage shrinks down to about 5% when you compare things fairly
[–]phome83 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 31分前 (0子コメント)
Cause bros before hoes applies to the hiring process, obviously.
[–]mmule11 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 28分前 (0子コメント)
Did anyone else read this as 3 quarterths? Now im just thinking of Mike Tyson
[–]Avant-Gardener 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 23分前 (0子コメント)
That figure is complete bullshit.
[–]FacingFears 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 21分前 (0子コメント)
Actually sort of a good point
[–]snarkhunter 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 21分前 (0子コメント)
Because there are jobs that women haven't traditionally been allowed to do. You didn't see women in most professional careers 50 years ago. Things like doctors and lawyers. They're catching up, but the whole point is that employers in a lot of those fields unfairly value man's work over woman's work because of their biases.
[–]jeanduluoz 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 19分前 (0子コメント)
This is the classic question in labor econ theory.
[–]PixelLight 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 19分前 (0子コメント)
Yawn, this has been posted time and time again. The only potential discrimination which may hold truth is that women are more qualified than their male counterparts, for the same job. This is less well discussed/researched afaik but I have read it somewhere.
[–]Miotoss 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 18分前 (0子コメント)
Because we work overtime and vacations.
[–]mattypong 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 17分前 (0子コメント)
I believe it's actually because in the same job setting a man is more likely to be more ambitious and try to discuss their salary with their employer and a woman is more likely to accept their given salary and not try to discuss changing it with their employer. Obviously I'm not trying to say men are better than women, but this idea is where the statistic comes from.
[–]Uncle_Magic 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 16分前 (1子コメント)
Wait, so for every dollar a man makes a woman makes 75 cents?
[–]ddzado 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 16分前 (0子コメント)
For the sake of the straw man argument... yes... but it's not actually true when you factor in everything.
[–]TheBeastIsComming 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 16分前 (0子コメント)
http://thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=hire_women
[–]slace 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 15分前 (0子コメント)
Because the same prejudices that affect how raises are distributed also affect hiring decisions
π Rendered by PID 14332 on app-266 at 2015-09-22 20:40:44.751052+00:00 running 494a66f country code: JP.
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