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Polling interpretation drama as /r/politics attempts to cope with a new CNN/ORC poll that shows a rise in Hillary Clinton's support (np.reddit.com)

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[–]PyreDruidI am the very model of a modern SJW 116ポイント117ポイント  (74子コメント)

I'm not voting for Clinton. If I have to throw my vote away to a republican I'm going full fucking republican.

What?

I'm really getting sick of this "Hillary agreed with the Republicans 3 times, she's just another Ted Cruz" people have going on.

[–]SuperTurtle 19ポイント20ポイント  (9子コメント)

You know, I'm nearly convinced that /r/politics cares very little about actual policies and more cares about voting for who looks the most friendly. It's pretty accepted that Bernie is farther left than Hilary, what kind of incredibly specific policies could these guys possibly support that would cause redditors to vote in this way?

[–]OmiC 25ポイント26ポイント  (8子コメント)

Reddit is a primarily Libertarian website. Libertarians, for the most, part, care about themselves more than anyone else (think Ayn Rand philosophy). Since the main demographic of Reddit is college-aged, Bernie Sanders' views on the minimum wage/college debt have temporarily caused them to ignore the fact that he is not even remotely Libertarian. If he loses, or the next race if he wins, they will go back to the next Rand Paul in a heartbeat.

Also doesn't help that a bunch of people I have tagged as former Coontown users/mods are in there pretending to be moderate. I tried calling one out for modding a whole host of hate subs once but /r/politics doesn't allow that, so they go largely unnoticed.

[–]chewy_pewp_barShitposts can't melt modteams / pbuf 28ポイント29ポイント  (2子コメント)

I love reading all the absolutely shocked comments in threads about Sanders and gun control. Or affirmative action. Or any truly leftist ideal.

[–]spacehoggPour me a glass of Rioja! 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

Did you see the Sanders believes in the wage gap one? That one was also awesome!

[–]JoseElEntrenador [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Do you have any examples? That sounds absolutely hilarious.

[–]OrangeAdventureSJW cabal bro hug ༼ つ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ༽つ 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

As a Bernie Sanders fan, his reddit fanbase annoys me a lot. /r/sandersforpresident is chill most of the time, I post on there, but /r/politics seems like it's full of kids who only see Bernie as the "free college guy". Which is of course pretty much missing the point and ignoring the main issues that Bernie is trying to fight for.

[–]ManicMarine 19ポイント20ポイント  (1子コメント)

Reddit is a primarily Libertarian website

I think this is the wrong way to think about it. Reddit's politics are populist, not libertarian. The common denominator between reddit's support for libertarianism and for Bernie is that they're both anti-establishment populist positions that are pro individual liberty.

[–]thebutlerofdoom [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This is the correct way to describe the situation. Thank you for that.

[–]houinatorshill for big popcorn [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Libertarians, for the most, part, care about themselves more than anyone else (think Ayn Rand philosophy).

That's Objectivism. Some libertarians are objectivists, and some objectivists are libertarians; but not all of them. Rand herself despised libertarians.

コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

    [–]andrew2209Sorry, I'm not from Swindon. 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

    With this attitude of "They're as bad as each other", I'm surprised that 3rd parties still only get 2% of the vote. I mean, if you think both sides are bad, and you don't care who wins, vote 3rd party. Sure, FPTP means they'll almost certainly never win, but if enough people did that the Democrats and Republicans would listen.

    [–]PyreDruidI am the very model of a modern SJW [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    American politics really seems to do the coalition building that parliaments do but we do it before the election.

    So the 3rd parties tend to be out of mainstream, the "mainstream" version get absorbed by the parties. So people are libertarian enough for the libertarian wing of the Republicans but not for the party itself, same with greens.

    That's been my theory at least.

    [–]White_WesleySnipes 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

    A lot of it can be written off as it being a primary election. You pretty much get a lot of candidates that have a bunch of similar positions so people exaggerate the differences and threaten to vote for the other party to basically try to extort their party into nominating their preferred candidate. Republicans in 2008 were threatening to vote for Hillary if McCain was nominated and the PUMAs said they would never vote for Obama if Clinton lost the nomination. Neither group ever made good on those threats.

    It's especially bad on Reddit because people here seem incredibly prone to apocalyptic over-the-top rhetoric against everyone that disagrees with them. Moving outside a narrow band of acceptable opinion makes you an idiot/evil/shill, etc.

    [–]PyreDruidI am the very model of a modern SJW 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Absolutely.

    I'm just tired of hearing it. Or worse, I'm dreading the race lost by the Democrat in the manner of 2000 and all of the people blaming the "you didn't want to vote because Bernie lost and now we have President Cruz?!"

    [–]OrangeAdventureSJW cabal bro hug ༼ つ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ༽つ 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I'm a Bernie supporter and if he doesn't get the nomination and there's no other viable Democratic candidates, I'm voting for Hillary. I'm certainly no fan of her, but she's better than anyone the GOP is going to nominate and I'd prefer Clinton's Supreme Court nominations to Carson's, Fiorina's or Trump's.

    [–]PyreDruidI am the very model of a modern SJW [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    I know a lot of you exist, I'm mostly talking about the real hardcore Bernie or nobody people.

    [–]ghotier 4ポイント5ポイント  (31子コメント)

    I'm of two minds. Do I think she's worse than any of the Republican front runners? No. Do I want our politics to basically become a series of dynasties? Also no.

    [–]strugleArl of Shredcliff 63ポイント64ポイント  (4子コメント)

    While I am not a huge fan of the idea of Bush Clinton Bush (interruption!) Clinton, there is a huge difference between the Bushes, a political family going back to the early days of the nation, and the Clintons, which is pretty much just Bill and Hillary.

    [–]ghotier 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Oh, I absolutely agree that there is a difference, exactly as you described, but once Hillary is elected it starts the pattern again.

    [–]Defengar 16ポイント17ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Yeah... and with two parent's being former presidents, that puts Chelsea Clinton in a ludicrously strong position to gain her own traction for higher office later in life.

    [–]HenkieVV 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Has she shown any interest in running for any sort of office what-so-ever?

    [–]Zorkamork 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

    "No see once you remove the stuff that doesn't make a pattern...THE PATTERN IS THERE"

    [–]PyreDruidI am the very model of a modern SJW 31ポイント32ポイント  (8子コメント)

    The no dynasty one also confuses me.

    I get where it's coming from, but it's not like it's new (we made it a whole SIX before our first son of a president was president).

    And that's just presidents, when you consider governors, senators, representatives, commissioners and cabinets. There's a lot of dynasties.

    Still, I get if you're voting "for Hillary because Bill was good" that's not a good reason. But if Hillary is the best option, and you're only not voting for her because "dynasties", well, that ship has sailed in the US. So it doesn't make sense.

    [–]dynaboyj 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

    The Taft family is still going incredibly strong as a political dynasty, for one. An unnecessarily huge amount of his descendants have held political positions.

    That said, I don't think that's, like, a good thing. I don't want Hillary to be president partially because she's been a huge overdog for the position since long before her 2008 run and a long-standing choice for first female president. I'd rather have someone come out of nowhere (reputation-wise) than someone who's had extreme amounts of both visibility and inside experience dealing with the White House.

    [–]PyreDruidI am the very model of a modern SJW [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Why is President the only job where we seem to want inexperienced candidates, and shun ones who might know what they're doing.

    [–]spacehoggPour me a glass of Rioja! 10ポイント11ポイント  (4子コメント)

    voting "for Hillary because Bill was good" that's not a good reason.

    Why not? I'm sure Hillary helped Bill during his presidency and that he'll do the same. Plus, she'll get up to speed as president faster than any other candidate since she's already lived at the White House. Granted, that wouldn't be my only reason, but I do consider it a plus.

    [–]PyreDruidI am the very model of a modern SJW [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    They also have some different views on issues. It could be a plus, but she isn't Bill 2.0 was all I mean.

    [–]spacehoggPour me a glass of Rioja! [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    It could be a plus

    Precisely. It's funny just how often a widow takes over her husband's elected office with a much lower (visible) skill set then what obviously Hillary has. I think that if she gets in office, she'll spend a great deal of her time trying to separate herself from her husbands past record because she wants to be her own person. And that will be hard to do!

    [–]TIPTOEINGINMYJORDANS [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    Yeah I'm voting clinton because she knows where's the bathrooms are.

    [–]spacehoggPour me a glass of Rioja! [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    When CEO's get hired, no one really expects much from them until they get a feel for the office and what's going with the business. So new (good) CEO"s spend their 6 months to a first year not doing much of anything until they have a clearer understanding of the business. New presidents have to do that plus move into a new house! So in some ways knowing where the bathrooms are is a good thing, but she'll also be better prepared to handle the secret service too.

    I don't like 4 year terms anyone. They should just be one-time 8 year terms. More would get done by the president and they would have to stop their job to campaign for re-election. This campaigning for re-election every four years is unproductive and frankly plain ol' dumb!

    [–]ghotier 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

    She isn't the only option, she's not the democratic candidate yet. If she's the democratic candidate and it looks close then I'll vote for her. If it's not close I'll vote third party. I'm not in a swing state, it really doesn't matter what I do unless something weird happens.

    I really don't understand why this is confusing to people. I'd rather not have someone be President just because their family member was President. It's no way for a democracy to behave.

    [–]Ozymandius383 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

    That's a pretty odd reason to not vote for someone you agree with on most issues though. If Chealsea runs in a while, then you might have a point.

    [–]ghotier 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I didn't say I agree with her on most issues. I agree with her on more issues than I agree with any of the front runner Republican candidates.

    [–]Zorkamork 18ポイント19ポイント  (12子コメント)

    Do I want our politics to basically become a series of dynasties? Also no.

    Do you think that a husband and wife being president with literal decades apart makes a dynasty

    [–]_watchingsub mod shillionaire 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Already had two Adams', didn't end the country then. And I mean, hell, the Kennedys! I get the reluctance but for real I think people are over-worried about this.

    [–]ghotier 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I never once suggested that Hillary as President would ruin the country.

    edit: also, John Quincy Adams's election is widely seen as corrupt.

    [–]Spacegod87 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

    At this point people are grasping at anything to pin on Hillary. They never go through this much trouble for the male politicians. Not to this extent...

    [–]browses_on_the_bus 47ポイント48ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I want to believe you but I need to see your birth certificate first.

    [–]Defengar 29ポイント30ポイント  (7子コメント)

    Are you kidding me? There have literally been entire movements born out of dislike for both Bush and Obama.

    [–]Spacegod87 -5ポイント-4ポイント  (6子コメント)

    When they were president. I also remember, while upset with Bush and Obama, people on reddit still managed to hold civilized discussions whether they agreed or not with these men, without resorting to pointless insults or flying off the handle (aside from the few, naturally).

    [–]Defengar 31ポイント32ポイント  (5子コメント)

    When they were president.

    The birther movement shit started well before Obama was sworn in for the first time. It was several months before election ended that it reached fever pitch (the certificate picture was released in mid June if I remember correctly).

    people on reddit still managed to hold civilized discussions whether they agreed or not with these men, without resorting to pointless insults or flying off the handle (aside from the few, naturally).

    Get real. The Bush hate, even though mostly justified, reached absolutely astonishing levels both on and off Reddit. People LOATHED that man at the end. Loathed him so much that a lot of stand up comics even missed him being president because ragging on him was such an easy way to win crowds over FFS.

    [–]Rawrpew 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Birther movement was initially started by a Hilliary supporter during the primaries. It was quickly picked up by the right after Obama became the nominee.

    コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

      [–]Science_and_Progress 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I think that Hillary Clinton has a reasonable republican platform for 2016. I also think that there's some validity to the sort of space that a conservatism occupies in a political spectrum. Their should be a sort of counterweight to the sometimes rash, impractical, and irresponsible, but well intentioned attempts by the left to fix the problems facing the nation. Really, un In my view, the modern republican party no longer occupies this space.

      During this election cycle, the rhetoric from the side that is supposed to be patient, stoic, and disciplined is more rash and unfeasable than the rhetoric from the left. Campaigning on deporting millions of illegal immigrants is not conservative. Standing against women's health care is not a conservative stance. And while being against healthcare reform is conservative, I'd argue that the conservative position here is unreasonable given how poorly our current and former systems perform compared to those used in other nations. Health Care reform isn't crazy or radical. It's tried and proven.

      So, I guess what I'm saying is that I can kind of see where that person is coming from. A vote for Hillary Clinton would probably be a vote for the status quo more so than a vote for anybody from either side of the isle. That makes her, in my mind, the very definition of a reasonable conservative candidate. I just happen to not be a conservative.

      [–]kennyminot[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

      I don't agree. Hillary is actually reasonably liberal on a host of issues - you do know, for example, that she was instrumental in pushing for SCHIP, which granted millions of children access to health care?

      Here's where liberals have a problem with Hillary - she's definitely hawkish, at least for the Democratic party, and I suspect that most people don't like her muscular approach to foreign policy. However, I don't think this makes her a "Republican." The Democratic party has a long history of "bleeding heart hawks" - to give you a simple example, FDR was always in favor of being involved in World War II. If she were to win the election, I would expect basically a continuation of Obama's policies, which I think have been successful in several respects. Not to say that he hasn't made mistakes, but he's muddied his way through a number of difficult issues - ISIS is basically contained in the Middle East, Russia has somewhat backed off their invasion of Ukraine, and the Iran deal looks to be promising over the long term. He's also made a number of tactical mistakes - the bombing of Libya being one of the more important ones - but I think that's far outweighed by his good decisions.

      [–]Science_and_Progress [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      I'd like to clarify that when I talk about conservatism I'm not talking about whatever the republican platform has to be. A more conservative stance address a problem, but in a more metered way than a liberal one.

      In this sense I don't see why somebody can't have a more liberal view on one issue and a conservative view on another. The idea isn't binary and some issues are more delicate than others. Somethings should be radically overhauled and others should be tweaked little by little until they're right. I said that she was an example of what would be a reasonable conservative candidate. To me, that means that she doesn't believe that the status quo is perfect, but she's not going around talking about overhauling absolutely everything overnight.

      A sort of example of what I mean is Mitt Romney's healthcare plan that president obama brought to the national level. It's a more conservative version of a single payer plan.

      Certainly any reasonable politician sees problems in the country and has solutions that they believe will strike a balance between solving the problem and not causing more damage. Hillary Clinton is a reasonable conservative option then because yes, she's essentially a vote for more of the same. A vote for Sanders or O'Malley is in general a vote for much faster and more radical change, which I believe is what we need right now.

      コメントをもっと表示する (13 返事)

        [–]PoogansAdvocate for the repeal of Unfair Flavor Laws 146ポイント147ポイント  (144子コメント)

        I'd pick Sanders over Clinton in a second, but god damn. She isn't a fucking evil monster.

        [–]larrylemur[̲̅$̲̅(̲̅ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°̲̅)̲̅$̲̅] SHILLIONAIRE [̲̅$̲̅(̲̅ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°̲̅)̲̅ 72ポイント73ポイント  (22子コメント)

        There's a /r/SandersForPresident post on the front page of /r/all and reading the comments you'd think Clinton personally skinned all of the commenters' dogs

        [–]tremuloBernie "#420BernIt" Sanders 71ポイント72ポイント  (21子コメント)

        I'll probably vote for Sanders. I like a lot of what I've heard him say, I like his voting record, and I like the feeling of actual authenticity he brings to his campaign.

        But god damn, the Berniejerk on reddit is fucking intense. And I only ever see positive Sanders news upvoted. The stickied CNN poll megathread on /r/SandersForPresident currently sits at 108, while a post claiming "Sanders Polling 11% ahead of Clinton and 6% ahead of Biden in Utah" from utahpolicy.com has 5328 upvotes and was #1 on /r/all. If reddit was your only source for Bernie-related updates, you'd think his nomination was all but certain.

        Even the megathread about the CNN poll is full of comments about why that poll doesn't matter, yet there are five posts a day claiming a new poll shows Bernie gaining on such-and-such candidate in such-and-such state among such-and-such demographic.

        Again, I like Sanders, but If he doesn't get the nomination I think some of his more rabid supporters' heads might actually explode.

        [–]invaderpixel 55ポイント56ポイント  (9子コメント)

        Did you see Sanders rode on a commercial airline? Did you see Sanders got sweaty the other week? Did you hear Sanders is going to singlehandedly topple the 1% and solve economic inequality forever? Don't get me wrong, he's a good candidate and I understand the appeal but sometimes his support on reddit feels kind of cultlike.

        [–]Awesometom100YOUR FLAIR TEXT HERE 24ポイント25ポイント  (6子コメント)

        Did you see Sanders got sweaty the other week?

        Rubio has him beat on the sweatiness monopoly.

        [–]rainbowdraculaShilling in the Name 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

        Does anyone else kind of think of Rubio as being way younger than he actually is? Like one of those awkwardly old looking teenagers.

        [–]DacryphileThere is no such thing as an infinite supply of threes. 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

        Rubio in gif form

        [–]andrew2209Sorry, I'm not from Swindon. 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

        To be honest, Rubio might actually get the Republican Nomination, taking out the 3-non politicians, it seems like Rubio has the least going against him, and comes from a swing state.

        EDIT-Then again I'm not American, so this is an outsider's perspective.

        [–]RoboticParadoxGen. Top Lellington, OBE [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

        He has like next to no traction though...just a dreadfully boring man.

        [–]andrew2209Sorry, I'm not from Swindon. [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

        The way the Republicans are going, someone boring might be the most sensible option.

        [–]984519685419685321 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        Did you see Sanders rode on a commercial airline?

        In case anyone thought you were joking here is a picture of the back of God/King Sanders' head that was upvoted to the front page of r/all.

        https://np.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/3fcr97/bernie_waiting_to_catch_a_flight_in_florida_after/

        [–]ghostofpennwastAllstar 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Picture with me and bernie! I donated 3 dollars for bernie! (3k upvotes)

        [–]ArmandTanzarianMusic大爆米花饥荒幸存者 21ポイント22ポイント  (2子コメント)

        Again, I like Sanders, but If he doesn't get the nomination I think some of his more rabid supporters' heads might actually explode.

        That's the drama I'm most looking forward to. I remember Paul supporters flipping shit all the way to the RNC. If Sanders' loses, I expect no less of a tantrum, right down to potential doxxing of delegates and superdelegates 'requesting' them to change their vote.

        [–]one-one_is_zero 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Oh, god, if that wouldn't make Sanders(and thus the left) look bad it would be absolutely hilarious(for everyone not being doxxed by crazy people)

        [–]ArmandTanzarianMusic大爆米花饥荒幸存者 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

        To be fair, what encouraged Ron Paul's supporters was that he never made a concession speech and transferred his delegates to Romney, as is customary. While I think Sanders would never be so petty, I won't put it past his supporters to continue to prop him up long after it means something, especially considering the incredibly negative perception of Clinton.

        [–]PoogansAdvocate for the repeal of Unfair Flavor Laws 16ポイント17ポイント  (1子コメント)

        If reddit was your only source for Bernie-related updates, you'd think his nomination was all but certain.

        Which is especially bothersome because it makes people think that they don't need to help his campaign because it's a sure thing. Reality is that he still has a very low chance despite his surge and still needs lots of campaigning.

        [–]OrangeAdventureSJW cabal bro hug ༼ つ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ༽つ 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

        That's why I've personally donated to his campaign, bought a shirt, tried to get other people involved and I'm looking at volunteer opportunities. It's awesome that Sanders has had such a surge, but we're still fighting an uphill battle.

        [–]Illum503 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

        If reddit was your only source for Bernie-related updates, you'd think his nomination was all but certain.

        Which is going to make the popcorn all the sweeter when their internet bubble pops and they realise the real world does not work like they want it to.

        [–]cupcake310 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        It's so entertaining how they operate in some unrealistic fan-fiction world.

        コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

          [–]DacryphileThere is no such thing as an infinite supply of threes. 72ポイント73ポイント  (23子コメント)

          I can only imagine if the race in 2016 was between Fiorina and Clinton. That would be a shitshow to end all shitshows.

          [–]eongeTHE BUTTER MUST FLOW. 35ポイント36ポイント  (0子コメント)

          invest in popcorn stocks today

          [–]z1967Cabal Intern 24ポイント25ポイント  (20子コメント)

          In Gov class we were talking about the Republican candidates and while my (figurative) money is currently on Bush, I would pay (literal) money to see a showdown between Clinton and Fiorina.

          The only people who benefit would be the people watching the show go down.

          [–]Yomammas_Lemma 40ポイント41ポイント  (17子コメント)

          I'm amazed Fiorina's doing this well, I had kind of thought her political career was an even bigger embarrassment than how she ran HP.

          [–]PoogansAdvocate for the repeal of Unfair Flavor Laws 40ポイント41ポイント  (4子コメント)

          Her pandering game is on point

          [–]ZigglesRulesKISS KISS START DRAMA! 18ポイント19ポイント  (2子コメント)

          She went after Planned Parenthood the most and that helps alot.

          [–]OrangeAdventureSJW cabal bro hug ༼ つ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ༽つ 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Must be why Carson is doing so well too.

          [–]thenewiBall11/22+9/11=29/22, Think about it [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          He's doing great because he let trump explain how big government was giving kids autism, fucking ridiculous

          コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

            [–]seshfan 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Most people who haven't done in-depth candidate research probably just assume "Hey, she was a CEO, she must be pretty business-savvy, right?"

            If she ever actually got a frontrunner, the attack ads about how she was a horrible CEO would start coming out.

            [–]CANOODLING_SOCIOPATHSRS SHILL 13ポイント14ポイント  (9子コメント)

            I think a lot of the donors have decided that this is an anti establishment year and so they think they can only choose between Trump, Carson or Fiorina. Trump is an idiot, Carson is so religious that he's unpredictable and Fiorina probably won't do anything to crazy.

            [–]one-one_is_zero 16ポイント17ポイント  (7子コメント)

            Fiorina probably won't do anything to crazy.

            It sure sounds like she wants to go to war with Russia.

            [–]PoogansAdvocate for the repeal of Unfair Flavor Laws 22ポイント23ポイント  (2子コメント)

            Fiorina is a fucking nutcase and I feel like people don't realize that enough. i'm honestly more afraid of a Fiorina presidency than a trump one.

            [–]I-See-A-Darkness [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

            HP, while she was CEO, sold materials to Iran which was/is(?) the enemy of the US and is financing terrorists. I may not like Hillary since she's bought and paid for by corporate interests but I'd prefer her of Fiorina.

            [–]984519685419685321 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            materials

            Printers* And it was an European subsidiary selling printers to a third party that then sold them to Iran. Which wasn't illegal, and when they(HP) found out(after Fiorina left) about it they stopped.

            At this point I think that whole story is a Fiorina plant to show how outrageously unfair the media can be in swaying public opinion. What more do you need than her Russia warmongering or PP fever dreams?

            [–]andrew2209Sorry, I'm not from Swindon. 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

            At that rate she might as well go the whole nine yards and announced construction of a Death Star.

            [–]ghostofpennwastAllstar 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

            When she was talking about russia it sounded like she was about to endorse the star wars missile defence system that reagan joked about

            [–]DoctorFahrenheitMods, Give Me Flair 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Plus, didn't her kid OD? Better believe the DEA is going to be fucking people up double-time.

            [–]CANOODLING_SOCIOPATHSRS SHILL 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Not to crazy compared to Carson or Trump.

            I don't like her at all. But I am simply trying to explain her success.

            [–]613codyrex 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Also Carson and trump just Continues to alienate groups of people.

            Trump was successful in scarring away almost everyone except the white male voters.

            Carson, because of his race will cause him to either loose support in the GOP or in the undecided/independents.

            Fiona out of all of them are probably their best bet with Scott walker getting out and more to follow.

            [–]Ozymandius383 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

            A lot of the republican base has convinced themselves that Obama could only have won because of his minority status, I think that's driving a lot of her and Carson, coupled with the lack of being politicians.

            [–]canti28 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Trump vs Sanders would be so much more entertaining.

            But I don't hate this country enough to hope for a Trump nomination.

            [–]freet0au contrail [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            I'm still praying for Sanders v Trump. Can you imagine that? What a time to be alive.

            [–]Illum503 15ポイント16ポイント  (8子コメント)

            I don't understand how the smear campaigns against her have been so effective. She already ran in 2008 and everyone accepted she was a great candidate but just a little too hawkish for the time (although she did actually win the popular vote). 8 years have passed in which the worst thing anyone can find her doing is using her own email (dear god!) and now suddenly she's the worst politician on earth? What the hell is this? Is it just because people who don't like have had 8 years to prepare their attacks? This is ridiculous.

            [–]_watchingsub mod shillionaire 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Didn't have Sanders last time as a lightning rod for all the more left wing voters, esp the populist and less... Strategic-thinking ones. Sure Obama was more lefty and a unifying force, but in terms of people who condemn any single tie to corporations or the political establishment, he's not the darling Sanders is.

            [–]Mister-Manager 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

            I don't like that Hillary Clinton is being smeared, but to Sanders' credit, he hasn't and will not run any negative ads, and he won't make a Super PAC. Can't say the same for Clinton, though.

            [–]Lilusa 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

            Technically speaking, politicians can't be involved with their own super PAC.

            [–]Mister-Manager [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

            Technically they can't, but there are many loopholes around that. I don't think that's a valid reason not to hold Clinton responsible for the ads her Super PAC makes.

            [–]bruciusreturns [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            We have had 2 republican candidates drop out now, because although their super pacs were flush with money, their campaigns were broke.

            [–]Lilusa [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

            My point was that saying Bernie won't make a Super PAC is a bit silly because technically no one makes their own Super PACs. Though anyone can make a super pac, so if someone did make a bernie pac, he wouldn't be able to stop it.

            [–]Mister-Manager [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

            Hillary Rodham Clinton will begin personally courting donors for a “super PAC” supporting her candidacy, the first time a Democratic presidential candidate has fully embraced these independent groups that can accept unlimited checks from big donors and are already playing a major role in the 2016 race.

            http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/07/us/politics/hillary-clinton-to-court-donors-for-super-pac.html

            On April 12, 2015, Hillary Clinton announced her candidacy for president. In turn, Ready for Hillary began winding down operations and, in compliance with federal election law, altered its name from 'Ready for Hillary' to simply 'Ready PAC'. The PAC closed entirely shortly thereafter and some staff members were later hired by the Hillary Clinton campaign.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ready_PAC

            You're right, she didn't personally create a Super PAC. That doesn't mean she isn't involved with them. And if you agree that she is, then I really don't see what you're doing other than splitting hairs and playing semantics.

            [–]Lilusa [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            I was just making a joke about the thought that bernie sanders not creating his own super pac is a "good thing." It's like saying "i like bernie because he breathes air".

            IDGAF about either of these people.

            [–]CANOODLING_SOCIOPATHSRS SHILL 18ポイント19ポイント  (43子コメント)

            Why would you pick Sanders?

            I just haven't understood why anyone who has actually compared Hillary and Sanders policies would want Sanders.

            Their main difference is that Sanders is against free trade and has said he would want to repeal many of the immigration parts of free trade deals. This is a terrible stance as it is nonacademic and is simple fear mongering that is similar to Trump.

            Other than that they are relatively similar. Sanders has been similarly hawkish. Clinton has stated that she would support a minimum wage hike and wants to increase economic activity among the lower middle class through increased government welfare and subsidies.

            Hillary and Sanders have supported getting big money out of politics. Of course Hillary still accepts money but that would be foolish to not. Her proposed plan would hurt her significantly and help candidates like Sanders a huge amount. Sanders would take the money as well if it was offered.

            On social issues they are nearly identical. Sanders really isn't that liberal. In fact his anti trade policies make him relatively conservative by many standards. And his solution to almost every economic woe seems to be to end trade, which has been proven over and over again to be a backwards idea.

            [–]textrovert 48ポイント49ポイント  (15子コメント)

            I like them both and am very irritated by people who support Sanders and demonize Clinton, but Sanders has been decidedly more dovish than Clinton - unlike her, for example, he voted against the Iraq War. Sanders wants to raise the minimum wage to $15, Clinton to $12. Sanders opposes Keystone XL, while Clinton supports it. Sanders is strongly against for-profit prisons, while Clinton hasn't even mentioned the issue. She's much less inclined to prioritize Wall Street reform and accountability, in contrast to Sanders' vocal support for measures like Glass-Steagall.

            I also think you're being ungenerous to Sanders on trade - he opposes the Trans Pacific Partnership (which Clinton supports) because of the concern that it allows corporations to more easily outsource jobs for cheap labor and undermines labor and environmental protections. His wariness is based on the notion that unmitigated "free trade" often hurts workers in both the U.S. and in Central America, not xenophobia - his immigration proposal would provide some of the strongest protections possible of undocumented workers, and unlike Clinton he has opposed ridiculous proposals like building a wall on the border. While you may disagree with his approach or diagnosis, you should not confuse his motivation, which comes down to his intense concern with workers' rights. Neoliberalism and untrammeled free trade is right-wing, not leftist.

            [–]prillin101 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

            based on the motion that free trade hates workers

            Which has been empirically proven false. It hurts some workers in the extremely short run, but positively affects many more in the long run.

            [–]984519685419685321 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

            Which is why the government should provide job training to people who's jobs are outsourced.

            If only there were some sort of Trade Adjustment Assistance program that could be passed in advance of deals like the TPP that would provide just that kind of training and out reach.

            http://www.doleta.gov/tradeact/2015_amend_benfits.cfm

            [–]CANOODLING_SOCIOPATHSRS SHILL [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            Absolutely! But that isn't Sanders stance. He views trade as inherently bad.

            Job retraining programs would help smooth the transition significantly and be good for everyone, but Sanders just wants to stop trade altogether.

            コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

              [–]CANOODLING_SOCIOPATHSRS SHILL 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

              Bernie Sanders is not just against the TPP but against free trade in general. He has made this very clear on his site and in his opposition to all free trade deals.

              Also the economists all disagree with him. http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-economic-experts-panel/poll-results?SurveyID=SV_0dfr9yjnDcLh17m

              IGM is a great panel that polls from leaders from economic schools of thought, but there isn't any respected economist that is against free trade.

              Bernie Sander is also for allowing the illegal immigrants who flee extreme poverty and oppressive regimes, but he is against legal immigration of people who just want to come here, which is undoubtedly good for the economy.

              Raising the minimum wage to 15 is not going to happen, we all know this. At least Clinton is throwing out a number that might happen.

              The keystone pipeline was an over-politicized issue that has almost no affect on the environment. It was purely symbolic. I personally care about real environmental issues not just things that waste time.

              Sanders is not running on for profit prisons, and that is largely a state issue. It's not mentioned in his issues page and if Clinton was asked about it I'm sure she'd say she is against them.

              [–]textrovert [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

              Yes, Sanders is very leftist on trade. His positions are because he sides with unions and thinks some of these agreements are too friendly to corporations and not strong enough on environmental, labor, and human rights protections. You may disagree, but the idea that his stance is based on anything like Trump-style xenophobia is just wrong. Sanders and Clinton do not differ much at all on immigration.

              Keystone is not a symbolic issue. There is no reason to build it - it will impact climate like eight new coal plants and endanger the water supply of people living along it, all for just 35 new permanent jobs. Beyond Keystone XL, though, Sanders has been the top leader on climate in the Senate. If you "care about real climate issues," Clinton's rather anemic environmental proposal is not impressive.

              As for minimum wage, when you propose policy, you should ask for what you want and then be willing to compromise, not start at the lowest you can possibly go. If wages had kept up with productivity, it would be way higher than $15.

              Sanders indeed is running on opposition to for-profit prisons - he is introducing legislation about it, it's in his racial justice platform, and he frequently speaks about it on the campaign trail. And you should be less sure that Clinton would take a stand against them - two of her big donors are for-profit prison companies, and when she talks about prison reform she does not mention the issue.

              And again, Sanders is much tougher on Wall Street than Clinton, and on wealth inequality in general. That is probably the biggest reason people support him over her.

              The idea that Sanders "is not that liberal" is absurd. Analysis of his voting record shows he has consistently been the number one most liberal senator. By any U.S. standard, he is very liberal. Where he differs from Clinton is almost wholly that he is further to the left - you may keep trying to explain away why you don't care about his more leftist positions, but others do and that is the answer to your question.

              [–]sicarim [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              The keystone pipeline was an over-politicized issue that has almost no affect on the environment

              Are you fucking kidding me with this shit? At least do one iota of research before spewing this crap.

              コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                [–]cdstephensMore than you'd think, but less than you'd hope 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Main points that differ after looking it up:

                Clinton disagrees with absolute right to gun ownership, Sanders is neutral.

                Clinton wants to expand free trade, Sanders does not.

                Sanders wants to avoid foreign entanglements, Clinton disagrees.

                So yeah, it seems they mainly differ on foreign policy and international trade.

                [–]Defengar 7ポイント8ポイント  (11子コメント)

                And his solution to almost every economic woe seems to be to end trade, which has been proven over and over again to be a backwards idea.

                Yet at the opposite end of that increasing free trade is an even worse idea.

                We were promised all sorts of economic benefits before NAFTA went through. Where's it all at? In the end it just made moving to Mexico even more attractive to companies, then after sucking Mexico dry they moved to China. When you open the floodgates of free trade, the only thing that keeps your average production job in high labor cost countries is greater transportation costs. I didn't like Ross Perot as a candidate, but I will say that he was 100% right about the future effects of free trade and related policies on the American economy.

                The way I look at it, saying workers should lower their demands and expectations is an extremely conservative stance.

                [–]prillin101 5ポイント6ポイント  (8子コメント)

                I love it when people think they know better than 95% of economists.

                NAFTA, in aggregate, didn't destroy jobs:

                http://www.brookings.edu/research/papers/1997/06/useconomics-lustig

                NAFTA increased wages:

                http://www.brookings.edu/%7E/media/projects/bpea/spring-2008/2008a_bpea_krugman.pdf

                Free trade isn't negative in the long run:

                http://www.nber.org/papers/w6095

                Complaints about free trade simply aren't valid:

                http://www.nber.org/papers/w4478

                The only evidence you have for your claims is your incoherent ramblings.

                [–]CANOODLING_SOCIOPATHSRS SHILL 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                The IGM panel is the best source to show people the economist perspective

                http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-economic-experts-panel/poll-results?SurveyID=SV_0dfr9yjnDcLh17m

                [–]Defengar 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

                I love it when people think they know better than 95% of economists.

                LOL please.

                Also oh my god. All of your evidence except for one link is from the 90's.

                The one paper that isn't can also literally be boiled down to these three sentences in the conclusion:

                ... it is probably true that this increase [in manufactured imports] has been a force for greater inequality in the United States and other developed countries.

                How can the actual effects of rising trade on wages be quantified? The answer, given the current state of the data, is that it can't.

                Good fucking job on those sources mate. The most relevant one actually disagrees with what you are saying or is apathetic.

                Perot didn't say we would start feeling the negative effects instantly. He said it would happen in the future. That future is now.

                It's not just trade either. Free trade and trade deficits are just a lead in for the real shit hitting the fan event that automation is going to cause in the next half century. We weathered the storm of transitioning from a manufacturing economy to a service one, and now we're heading back to the beach despite the economic tsunami that is rapidly heading towards shore.

                None of these candidates, not even Sanders have the balls to talk about it, to say what needs to be said, and promise to start laying down concrete plans for how to lessen the impact. This isn't going to be like the industrial revolution where people all just moved on to new types of jobs. This is going to be like when Rome became an empire and started importing slaves to Italy to do all of the agricultural and service jobs as automatons; an action that created a titanic permanent underclass of free people in Italy which was still there when the empire fell over 500 years later. An underclass that became such a burden that it forced the creation of the first modern style welfare system, and was so volatile and easily manipulated that political strongmen in Rome constantly used it as a hammer to gain power for the entirety of it's existence.

                I want Sanders in large part because if he gets elected, that potentially opens the door for even more leftist people to become president who will talk about this issue and do something about it. If we don't have someone who can push through New Deal 2.0 within the next 30 years, we are fucked.

                I guarantee when unemployment hit's 20% and the prospects for it falling under that again are slim, shit will hit the fan if the safety nets are not in place and our government hasn't taken steps to prepare. God knows what the fuck will happen after that. Probably a takeover by fascists who's economic "fixes" will involve heavy military activity.

                [–]CANOODLING_SOCIOPATHSRS SHILL 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

                http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-economic-experts-panel/poll-results?SurveyID=SV_0dfr9yjnDcLh17m

                Almost all economist agree that free trade is good. IGM is a great panel that polls from all economic schools of thought. But there isn't an economic school of thought against free trade.

                [–]Defengar [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                There's a survey showing a consensus on NAFTA, but the first question is leading as hell. There's a big difference between someone believing that some free trade is good, and any/all free trade being good. That question doesn't make a distinction. I'm of the opinion that free trade with comparably developed economies isn't an issue.

                [–]CANOODLING_SOCIOPATHSRS SHILL [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                I don't know what you are talking about.

                There is survey shows a consensus on Nafta

                ? Are you saying there is another one?

                But Sanders specifically opposes NAFTA and all trade agreements like it. That is the type of free trade agreements that he opposes. I'm not sure what the "good" free trade that he supports because he has been against free trade bills like NAFTA which these economists labeled as "good".

                [–]sydtrontoynbee idea resurrect popcorn on planet SRD 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Brookings has an agenda, however, to promote free trade.

                While the research from the former is interesting, the ink had barely dried and capital had no chance to permanently move jobs out of country quite yet.

                I wouldn't blanket call NAFTA good or bad, because like all economic policy it depends on what investments you have made and to a lesser extent your income level.

                [–]prillin101 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Brookings has an agenda, however, to promote free trade.

                How so? It's one of the most respected institutions in economics, I wouldn't be able to find an accomplished economist trashing brookings.

                While the research from the former is interesting, the ink had barely dried and capital had no chance to permanently move jobs out of country quite yet.

                It's the other way around. Capital is extremely mobile, not labour. Capital can move overseas to places like Mexico with cheap labour while American labour cannot go to Mexico for the favourable job market. The short run negative affects of free trade usually come from capital and jobs moving abroad, then over time the positive effects of free trade take over.

                I wouldn't blanket call NAFTA good or bad, because like all economic policy it depends on what investments you have made and to a lesser extent your income level.

                Usually, blue collar workers take the brunt of the hit in the short run and then slowly go into service jobs or other areas where the country has a comparative advantage.

                [–]siempreloco31http://i.imgur.com/wIwhjsk.png [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                Yet at the opposite end of that increasing free trade is an even worse idea

                Top 10 ways to tell you don't know anything about economics.

                [–]Defengar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                I have my opinion, and it's an opinion based on what I have seen happen over the last 25 years with my own eyes working on the ground across the country. Not numbers on paper. Economists even in large groups can miss the forest for the trees in a big way. Even the great Keynes and his contemporaries thought that Worrld War I could only last a few weeks at most "because no country involved can afford it".

                Sure I might be wrong, I will admit that right here. But as I watch the level of income inequality in the US growth and the real wage for the average worker here tumble, I grow more secure in my opinion every year.

                [–]Mister-Manager 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Sanders would take the money as well if it was offered.

                That's absolutely incorrect. Sanders didn't make a Super PAC. Hillary Clinton has made a Super PAC while saying she's for reform in election fundraising. Super PACS are where dark money and outrageously huge contributions come from, since you can only donate a maximum of $2,200 to the candidates themselves.

                [–]ghostofpennwastAllstar -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Your daily reminder that Sanders voted for the our genocide on yugoslavia

                コメントをもっと表示する (44 返事)

                  [–]MrMond4yCabal Shadow Priest 55ポイント56ポイント  (20子コメント)

                  They're all a part of the big business party. It's fascism and I'm not electing a fascist.

                  For some reason I don't think he knows what fascism means.

                  [–]heres_the_lamb_sauce 25ポイント26ポイント  (5子コメント)

                  Didn't you know? Fascism is anything minutely right of me!

                  [–]JDL114477 24ポイント25ポイント  (4子コメント)

                  Fascism is anything to the right of my own personal views, and totalitarian communism is anything to the left.

                  [–]PoogansAdvocate for the repeal of Unfair Flavor Laws 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

                  Everything would be so much better if everyone agreed with everything I think. Or it would all go to shit but at least we could all circlejerk while the world burns.

                  [–]Kazitron 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  we could all circlejerk while the world burns.

                  The world is burning! Let's masturbate.

                  [–]PoogansAdvocate for the repeal of Unfair Flavor Laws 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Yes, this is essentially how I imagined my world would be.

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                      [–]moethebartender 22ポイント23ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      I know exactly how polls work. When my candidate's ahead, they're the absolute truth. When my candidate's behind, they're rigged.

                      [–]one-one_is_zero 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      no no no, when your candidate is behind, the polls are skewed, not rigged. just gotta unskew them polls!

                      [–]Urdnot_Vex 60ポイント61ポイント  (42子コメント)

                      You mean there is a possibility that reddit might be wrong and Sanders isn't the chosen one?

                      Damn, and they've had such a great track record with the Pauls.

                      [–]PoogansAdvocate for the repeal of Unfair Flavor Laws 61ポイント62ポイント  (26子コメント)

                      I mean, any rational Sanders supporter realizes that it's a hugely uphill battle. Anyone acting otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about.

                      [–]Urdnot_Vex 37ポイント38ポイント  (23子コメント)

                      Yeah, don't get me wrong, I like the guy, but he's getting a bit of a cult of personality that is off-putting.

                      [–]PoogansAdvocate for the repeal of Unfair Flavor Laws 59ポイント60ポイント  (13子コメント)

                      To be fair to him, I think that's more reddit's MO rather than anything he's doing. You mentioned the Pauls. Paulbots weren't really the doing of Ron, as much as I think the dude was nuts in a lot of ways.

                      Reddit Bernie supporters tend to be so god damn annoying and it just bothers me that they seem to actively push some people away from a candidate that I think is genuinely alright.

                      [–]larrylemur[̲̅$̲̅(̲̅ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°̲̅)̲̅$̲̅] SHILLIONAIRE [̲̅$̲̅(̲̅ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°̲̅)̲̅ 20ポイント21ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      I think it's because a lot of them are young new voters who have Bernie as their first candidate they're excited about. Hillary is the big meanie standing in Bernie's way and they're MAD about it.

                      [–]Defengar 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Also I think most of the candidates probably have their own organically grown cults of personality, they just don't congregate on reddit like Sanders' does. That basically comes with the territory of high office or being extremely famous period. You can try to tamp it down, but it's always going to be there. That core group of followers who take everything to seriously and have near religious devotion. Hell, there's even YouTube celebrities that have them.

                      [–]_watchingsub mod shillionaire 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      That said the Pauls legit suck. Too bad that it happened to a good guy this time around :p

                      [–]heres_the_lamb_sauce 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      I don't agree that this is a reddit only thing. There are always butthurt sanders fanboys in PBS's and NPR's Facebook comments whenever a political story doesn't mention their one true god or even worse, criticizes him.

                      [–]doubleheresyThis is good for Reddit points -5ポイント-4ポイント  (6子コメント)

                      I went from, "Oh, Bernie is neat, shame he won't win," to, "Thank fuck he has no chance, let's hope he doesn't fuck it up by running as an independent," thanks to Redditors and Facebook friends.

                      [–]quinnipiacker 22ポイント23ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Well that's pretty stupid.

                      [–]PoogansAdvocate for the repeal of Unfair Flavor Laws 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      I don't really think changing views on a candidate based on what completely unrelated people do is wise. Obviously if you disagree with him that's a different story.

                      Also he will 100% not run as an independent. He's said as much.

                      [–]GaboKopiBrown 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      So you support someone based on what other people think rather than who they are and what they stand for?

                      [–]OrangeAdventureSJW cabal bro hug ༼ つ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ༽つ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      He's repeatedly said like ten times that he isn't going to run as an independent.

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                        [–]JDL114477 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        I have been on board to vote for him since he declared his candidacy but I am super annoyed with how much people around my age talk about him as if he is the second coming. I work in a lab, and one guy literally came into the lab uninvited, without asking if it was safe for him to come in, and started preaching at my boss and I about him.

                        [–]Ikkinn 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        It's still nothing compared to the hype around Obama's first campaign.

                        [–]Doldenberg 19ポイント20ポイント  (6子コメント)

                        I think Sanders supporters are annoying due to being enthusiastic. I mean, seriously, he's just a great candidate. He'd be the first candidate for presidency even remotely resembling European Social Democracy. People just think "Well it's fucking time" because many people voting Democrat are already way, way past this point in their political opinions.
                        It's different from Reddits obsession with Paul, I think that was an entirely different demographic. All the anarcho capitalist and "muh freeze peaches" libertarians haven't suddenly become Sanders supporters.
                        As I said: Even the people who are already way past his rather moderate views get drawn into it because they see that he is the best option to move Americas politics to a point where the question isn't "Do you want ruthless capitalism or do you want ruthless capitalism BUT with bans on abortion and gay marriage?" anymore.

                        But that's sort of the point. Because that's always been the question so far because the general political mainstream simply hasn't moved past that. It's the dilemma faced by leftists all across the world: How can we be so far while mainstream politics still discuss "are facts real"?

                        [–]xSepulcherxYeezy militia spec-ops agent 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

                        I agree, but the cult of personality and social media is about all Sanders has going for him. It's an easy way to get your message across, but in reality, he has no major backers, no real support from his party, his supporters spamming your facebook, twitter, and reddit is the major driving force behind him. I don't know exactly what his campaign plan his, but it has to rely heavily on memeing into something substantial at this point.

                        [–]OrangeAdventureSJW cabal bro hug ༼ つ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ༽つ 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        From what I've gathered based on the absolute shitshow that was the Republican debates, Sanders' plan is to sit back and let all the other candidates make total fools of themselves so everyone will come to him as an alternative. It seems decently effective, considering he gained thousands of new Twitter followers during and immediately after the debates despite not being in them.

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                            [–]Zeeker12skelly, do you even lift? 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            I mean, I am glad to hear people say that... Cause you wouldn't know it reading their subreddit.

                            [–]sollipse 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            I'm really tired. I'm really tired of voting for the person everyone says is gonna win.

                            I feel like a lot of people are tired too. They want to express, in some small way, their utter dissatisfaction with the current shit state of affairs.

                            Sanders is consistent on populist stances on popular issues. He's making promises that no other candidate is currently willing to make. So, even if he's doomed, I still think I'll feel pretty good throwing my meagre vote his way.

                            [–]eifersucht12aThe Beginning of the End of Reddit Again 23ポイント24ポイント  (13子コメント)

                            Issue for issue, Sanders just appeals to me most out of everything I've seen. I've never really taken a good look at Reddit's brand of rabid support for him, but I'm guessing a lot of it hinges on little more than "He's not Hillary Clinton."

                            [–]PoogansAdvocate for the repeal of Unfair Flavor Laws 24ポイント25ポイント  (12子コメント)

                            It seems like in general people on Reddit tend to like political outsiders who agree on several token issues. Bernie Sanders and Ron Paul are radically different in a lot of ways, but they converge on said token issues and then a lot of the people take it too far and get super annoying with it.

                            [–]eifersucht12aThe Beginning of the End of Reddit Again 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            To an extent it seems like the "annoying" degree of support just comes from compensating for the way elections in the US are presented where you have to either be part of the circus or a media favorite further down the line to have a chance. It's frustrating to think that more often than not if you want a president who truly represents your ideals it's like throwing your vote in the trash. So I get the idea of really throwing your support behind and underdog and trying to make a statement but it gets almost cult-like as a result.

                            What frustrates me is how he's now lumped with the likes of Ron and Rand Paul because of this following.

                            [–]OrangeAdventureSJW cabal bro hug ༼ つ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° ༽つ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Plus reddit seems to be the only place that Sanders really has this rabid obsession around him. I'm on a lot of websites that generally support Bernie like Reddit does, but none of them have the kind of obsessive fanboys that /r/politics has.

                            It's really pretty unfortunate that the reddit fanbase is like this, because I'm a little afraid that it'll put too many people who are on the fence off of Bernie. Hopefully not.

                            [–]DoshmanV2 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

                            They're also both white and male, and while plenty of people do dislike Clinton for valid reasons, I mean, it's Reddit. It doesn't hurt

                            [–]Yomammas_Lemma 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

                            The Bushes have soured me on a single family having multiple heads of state. It's partly why I'm voting NDP rather than Liberal.

                            [–]PoogansAdvocate for the repeal of Unfair Flavor Laws 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                            The Roosevelts were pretty good.

                            [–]Yomammas_Lemma 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            They were pretty distant cousins if you look at their family tree.

                            [–]Defengar 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Yeah, they were fifth cousins. They were more linked through Eleanor (TR's niece) than actual blood.

                            [–]Ikkinn -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

                            In another thread you were talking about your support for protesters blocking an interstate highway but you think people who lost on the internet to counter a disparity in press coverage take it too far? How does that work?

                            [–]PoogansAdvocate for the repeal of Unfair Flavor Laws 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

                            Well they aren't really similar situations. By "take it too far" in this case, I mean "are annoying". I don't mean that they should be stopped, or like that thread talked about, murdered. I also think that supporting a political candidate on a message board, no matter who it is (and I support him too), is fundamentally different than protesting what is perceived to be systemic oppression and violence against your community.

                            [–]Pocahontas_SpacemanThe lovechild of Ann Coulter and Lew Rockwell -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Damn, and they've had such a great track record with the Pauls.

                            The paultards and berniebots get soooo mad when you point this out.

                            [–]WearyTunes 22ポイント23ポイント  (11子コメント)

                            Not exactly a game changer.

                            [–]PeaceUntoAll 38ポイント39ポイント  (10子コメント)

                            It's a big deal for them because Sanders supporters have been spamming the sub with any article that casts their current messiah in a positive light. They've been especially giddy about his rising poll numbers in Iowa and New Hampshire recently.

                            A post showing Hillary leading, even if it's a single poll, will not be well-received as a result.

                            I like the guy, but his supporters can be a bit... aggressive.

                            [–]WearyTunes 17ポイント18ポイント  (4子コメント)

                            Yea but the poll is not a deviation from the norm, it's not even a gain for Hillary relative to other recent polls.

                            Sanders fans are annoying but there's no point in saying "lol, this'll piss them off" since they are aware of how Bernie is doing relative to Hillary nationally.

                            [–]_watchingsub mod shillionaire 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            I mean, that's the thing, isn't it? If you pay attention to the polls and intelligent analysts, and draw a conclusion from that, and then look at the some of the members of the reddit Sanders camp's conclusions, it seems they're completely unaware of his chances.

                            [–]kennyminot[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            LOL! My first post to Subreddit Drama generated a billion comments!

                            You're missing the point - polling averages aren't that important this far out from the primary. We're looking at trends, and she's gained support relative to the previous CNN/ORC poll. Plus, once you eliminate Biden from the equation, her lead becomes even more staggering, to the extent that she's taking over 50% in some polls. It's extremely hard to see path to the nomination for Bernie without something changing in the next couple months.

                            The bottom line is that Bernie needs to make some progress in earning minority support. As people have pointed out, their opposition to him isn't strange - minority voters are, by and large, more conservative than the general Democratic electorate (PEW calls them "the faith and family left.") If you compare Obama and Clinton's coalitions, the only reason Obama won was because he was able to solidify white liberal support while also attracting black voters. At the moment, Bernie hasn't proven his ability to do the latter, although he's certainly been employing the right messaging over the last few weeks. I can see him being successful if he keeps emphasizing racial injustice rather than just income inequality.

                            [–]ghostofpennwastAllstar -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            When I posted what you submitted to /r/sandersforpresident , it got like 0 upvotes in total I think.

                            Total denialism

                            [–]Velvet_Llama 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

                            Are none of these people aware of the fact that "outsiders" typically poll very well leading up to primaries, but almost always fail to secure nomination?

                            [–]pe3brain 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            That's interesting do you have a source for that?

                            [–]_watchingsub mod shillionaire 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            History. I mean its legit the common strategy that the successful candidate plays up their hardliner cred in the primary and then shift to the center for the main event. Candidates on the "fringe", with outsider/populist cred, or appeal to some faction, can do alright in the primary and fail completely. I mean, look at the last few republican primaries.

                            [–]PsychoWorld 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Ron Paul

                            [–]Valid_concept 19ポイント20ポイント  (6子コメント)

                            She's a republican. It isn't that they're any more liberal, it's that she isn't either. She's one of them. Just another Neocon.

                            Great point from itsaCONSPIRACYlol.

                            I mean, I'm not stoked about Hillary but I'd take her in a heartbeat over any of the GOP candidates (except maybe Kasich but he's never getting the nomination).

                            [–]strugleArl of Shredcliff 22ポイント23ポイント  (3子コメント)

                            Clinton has an impeccably liberal voting record and political career.

                            [–]grandhighwonko 18ポイント19ポイント  (2子コメント)

                            Outside of voting for the Iraq Resolution, but then again she's apologized for that again and again for more than a decade now, and she war hardly alone.

                            [–]ghostofpennwastAllstar -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            Apart from Iraq?

                            You canct just sweep strongly endorsing the largest foreign policy mistake of the last century as a one off

                            [–]grandhighwonko [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                            I can after more than a decade of public regret and action. People make mistakes, I'm far more interested in how they try to fix their mistakes than in trying to find infallibility.

                            [–]PoogansAdvocate for the repeal of Unfair Flavor Laws 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Besides what you said, not even all of the GOP candidates are neocons.

                            [–]freet0au contrail [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                            "Anyone right of my is a republican. I don't care that she isn't in their party and differs from them on many issues, she's a republican because I say so."

                            [–]jsmooth7Billionaires' Rights Activist 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            At this rate, this is going to be a very long election

                            [–]Spacegod87 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

                            Why is it that whenever a male politician does something wrong and abhorrent, people say shit like, "Oh yeah that's bad, hahaha INSERT PUN HERE." but if it's a woman..."THIS CUNTING WHORE NEEDS TO DIE! FUCK THIS BITCH!"

                            I mean fucking hell, all politicians are shitty but the reactions to men and women politicians is astoundingly different. It's scary that people need to take any little flaw a woman has and blow it up to make it seem worse than it actually is. I can understand not liking her but people are taking this too far.

                            [–]PissingBearsbitcoin gambling apocalypse kaiji 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

                            I don't think people are being sexist towards Hillary tbh

                            I mean on paper it'd make sense but most people have enough reasons to hate her before her being a woman

                            [–]Spacegod87 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

                            My point was that people are reacting far more aggressively towards her alone. I just haven't seen so many people froth at the mouth like this.

                            [–]fuckthepolis2electric boogaloo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                            You sound like a Nader voter in 2000.

                            It's absolutely savage in there.

                            [–]PugSwagMaster 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

                            Question, has any bill that Bernie has brought in actually Been passed?

                            [–]Deerscicle 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

                            3 bills out of over 300 introduced. And 2 of them were to re-name post offices.

                            [–]nichtschleppend 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

                            Aren't we all supposed to be skeptical data-crunching STEMlords here? What are these fools doing all worked up over a single poll?

                            [–]613codyrex 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Because they don't understand that polls are affected by millions of variables. Even the smallest ones can cause major spikes in polling.

                            For example the Israelis election poll where it showed that the left leaning zioninist Union wining over the right wing lukid party effectively getting rid of Netanyahu. But netanyahu's last minute push and the voting patterns of the right wing voters (IE: people who came from repressive parts of the world where their could get in trouble over stating their opinions) survey, threw a ginormous wench into the survey polls.

                            [–]WearyTunes 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            That's what had me confused. It's not exactly a game changer.

                            [–]ttumblrbots 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            doooooogs: 1, 2 (seizure warning); 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8; if i miss a post please PM me

                            [–]Fountainheadupper lower middle mind 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            The number of people that don't understand how political contributions work is too damn high.

                            [–]government_shilljij did nothing wrong -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            62%. Looks like a lot of them coped with it by downvoting the thread.

                            That makes it not true, right?

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