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Anti-gay poster made by transgender advocates. It‘s as crappy as it sounds. (i.imgur.com)

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[–]palmamod 403ポイント404ポイント  (64子コメント)

The guy on the left went to school with me in north-east Italy. He posed for some stock photos. Funny to see him here.

[–]happywaffle 194ポイント195ポイント  (57子コメント)

Probably not what he had in mind.

[–]FuckedByCrap 147ポイント148ポイント  (56子コメント)

How do you know? Maybe he hates gay people.

[–]palmamod 28ポイント29ポイント  (0子コメント)

For more context, he's a pretty decent theatre actor, he mostly does musicals. Pic from OP here, bottom middle.

[–]sillybandland 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

Your friend's a hunk

[–]moreexclamationmarks 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

Don't stock licenses, or some, actually go against this kind of usage?

Where you can't use the models in situations that insinuate sexual orientations, political allegiances, health conditions (eg STDs) without directly contacting and getting approval from the model?

For all we know the creator of that "poster" didn't pay for the images anyway, but in theory.

[–]Pays_in_snakes 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah something about this doesn't scream 'paid professional work' to me

[–]Agentzap 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nothing in this sub does

[–]accountnumberseven 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh, absolutely. Traditionally you have to do your own shoot with an actor who signs a very specific contract stating that you can call them gay, or a criminal, or the new face of genital herpes. There are stock sources that include the appropriate permissions, but even those may have prohibitions against using photos in this light.

[–]NotRenton 150ポイント151ポイント  (7子コメント)

Is this really a "poster" by a transgender group or just some shitty image some transgender person on the interwebs pulled together?

[–]Specktagon▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ 30ポイント31ポイント  (5子コメント)

Or OP pulled together for karma?

[–]shmalz[S] 34ポイント35ポイント  (1子コメント)

This.

EDIT: Thanks for the karma guys, it makes me feel better about myself.

[–]_From_The_Internet_ 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

We got 'em!

[–]fishsticks40 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Found them on Facebook - it's not clear that it's more than one person, and they're extremely defensive and combative. They are apparently a registered 501(c)3.

So it's a real organization but there's no reason to think it's one of any significance.

[–]Carcharodon_literati{"userFlair"} 734ポイント735ポイント  (65子コメント)

Gotta love the Oppression Olympics. Because clearly you can't advocate for same-sex marriage while also advocating for trans rights.

[–]WELL_GODDAMN_SON 237ポイント238ポイント  (29子コメント)

I would argue that they're not so much opposing same-sex marriage as voicing irritation with the lack of political representation that trans-people get (but they made the point awfully)

[–]doomsday1216 318ポイント319ポイント  (15子コメント)

They're trying to diminish the importance of same sex marriage by saying "this thing is also important! How can they coexist?"

It's like telling me the pain from my stubbed toe is irrelevant because children are starving in Africa. It is not a useful comparison and it doesn't mean anything. Multiple things are allowed to be simultaneously important.

[–]ShutYourFaceJabroni 107ポイント108ポイント  (12子コメント)

They're trying to diminish the importance of same sex marriage by saying "this thing is also important! How can they coexist?"

They're trying, very poorly, to draw attention to the fact that gay marriage is getting a ton of national press while trans issues go largely ignored. They're also, in a really ineffective manner, trying to show that the trans community faces discrimination that the gay community either does not face or faces on a much smaller scale. It's grown somewhat unacceptable to discriminate against homosexuals, but that's not the case with trans.

So your analogy would be better if your stubbed toe was getting national news coverage while people still didn't know that kids were starving in Africa. There's a finite amount of press coverage to go around, and the trans community feels that they aren't represented.

[–]saac22 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I feel like the trans community has had its "coming out" more recently, though. It took decades for the gay community to voice their opinions and be heard, and now the trans community is doing the same. Obviously there have been trans people the whole time, but I don't think their issues started coming to public light until more recently, so maybe the young community doesn't realize how long and hard the gay community fought.

And this is just speculation because I've seen young peoples' reactions to gay marriage and some seem to think it was our generation that made it happen, when my parents have been fighting for their rights for decades. To them it's more like "Well it's about time!" as opposed to my parents "I never thought I'd be able to get married in my lifetime," so I think they might just not realize just how long and hard this new fight is going to be.

[–]IVIaskeradeWiTtY fLaIr 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

your analogy would be better if your stubbed toe was getting national news coverage while people still didn't know that kids were starving in Africa.

It still wouldn't.

The gay population is much larger than the trans population. Especially with how long it's been going on and how recent the trans visibility movements are, it's a no-brainer that the coverage of gay issues is more comprehensive.

[–]moreexclamationmarks 14ポイント15ポイント  (9子コメント)

But it's still subjective to determine that one problem is equivalent to a stubbed toe and another is starvation on a large scale in comparison. You can't have all problems appeal to all people equally regardless of their own situation, let alone when we're comparing demographics that, according to actual data (not estimates) comprise 4% and 0.3% of the US population. (The Kinsian estimate is the 10% figure for gay population, but data has the demo at close to 4%.)

The issue with healthcare coverage is more to do with the requirement to indicate a biological sex for healthcare providers and insurance companies and is not societal discrimination. Meanwhile, the issue with gay marriage is entirely based on arbitrary societal discrimination, where the only reason to not support gay marriage is based on your own subjective definition of marriage. Regardless of what a person identifies as mentally, you cannot change your biological sex, even with gender reassignment surgery. You cannot undo the genetic dispositions that a biological male or female will have simply by identifying as a different gender.

Since insurance is based on objective data, with odds-based risk analysis and if the issue is (presumably) someone refusing to give their biological sex or expects it not to matter, then that has nothing to do with discrimination, it's just not logical in the context of how insurance or health care works. An insurance company will not cover someone if that person refuses to cooperate by providing relevant data as to the nature of the coverage.

[–]PhilosopherPrincess 15ポイント16ポイント  (8子コメント)

This is manifestly not the only problem for trans health coverage. For an example (that might (I hope) phase out if certain Obama-administration-proposed regulatory changes go into effect) I have a friend who recently started HRT and his insurance will not cover testosterone for him, though they will cover testosterone for people born with penises. That's not just him wanting to check a different box in the sex part of a form. That's important treatment that he is denied because he wasn't born as a man.

[–]moreexclamationmarks 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

That begins to get into more grey areas involving the actual transition process itself. To go down that path you'd also have to get into the classification or diagnosis of gender dysphoria, varying consensus on treatments and the effectiveness of transition processes.

To keep things more linear for now, I was just focusing on the issue of when trans people are denied any health coverage because of an issue of principle in being "forced" into the "binary" of biological sex for the sake of health care and insurance requirements.

Regardless of anyone's gender identity, it's an issue of rational thought to acknowledge the difference between a gender and a biological sex, and how undergoing hormone therapy or gender reassignment does not change your DNA or genetic predispositions to certain medical conditions.

For example, while it's unfortunate your friend cannot get the treatment covered, that is something that would be addressed if, like you mentioned, aspects of the Affordable Care Act go through, but at the same time, if your friend were to refuse to acknowledge their biological sex of female for the sake of health care or insurance, that's not the same thing, where the biological sex is not viewed as a preexisting condition, it's a mandatory requirement in terms of analyzing the risk of the patient.

If anything it seems to simply be an emotional response as it's essentially a notion that no matter what you do, no matter how far you go, at that core genetic level one can never truly escape their biological sex, but it's just illogical to view such an objective fact as somehow malicious or discriminatory or even bigoted.

[–]PhilosopherPrincess 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Huh. I guess that thing you're focused on seems like something silly we can fix pretty simply: ask people what sex they were assigned at birth. Medical records should also probably record gender and anything that has happened since (sex conforming surgery for intersex, HRT, SRS, whatever). This is really a problem?

[–]crackerbarreljoe 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Does the insurance cover liposuction? That's a relevant question. How about liposuction where it's not medically necessary, like in the case of someone with body dysmorphia?

[–]PhilosopherPrincess 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

It covers T already, though. So I don't really see a good reason why you think this is a relevant question.

[–]rinabean 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You could compare it to getting breast implants as reconstructive surgery after a mastectomy or whatever or purely cosmetic for normal whole breasts. That other people can have the treatment for a different reason isn't automatically a reason everyone can have it

[–]crackerbarreljoe -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's relevant because it's essentially an elective cosmetic operation. Do they prescribe testosterone because it's deemed that the patient has a low testosterone level or do they just hand it out to anyone who asks for it because they feel like taking it?

If they're just handing it out like candy, then you're friend is getting gipped. If not, then at what point does the way you feel one day constitute medical necessity? Surely a psychiatrist could prescribe it if were needed to treat an actual problem.

[–]Tynach 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Surely a psychiatrist could prescribe it if were needed to treat an actual problem.

Setting aside whether or not you can be born with a body of the wrong gender to who you 'truly are', there are legitimate psychiatric reasons for undergoing gender reassignment. This includes things like taking hormones and so forth. In short, yes, that's how it works anyway.

You see a psychologist, and you have multiple sessions. They might ask various questions and gauge your responses, as well as other forms of psychological testing. If after several sessions they have diagnosed you with gender dysphoria, you are sent to a psychiatrist.

The psychiatrist uses your psychologist's diagnosis and notes, and does more testing with you (and might send you to get blood tests or other biological tests done) to help determine what sort of treatment path is appropriate for your specific case, and then prescribes any necessary medicine, hormones, or gender reassignment surgeries.

And you know what? Take out things like 'gender dysphoria' and so on, and it's the same way for pretty much every single psychological disorder you can imagine - because in the end, that's what it is.

And sometimes it might be more appropriate to overcome one's past issues and traumas, other times it might be best to take various meds and hormones (but not undergo any surgery), and sometimes it's best to legally and physically change your biological sex (to the extent that is appropriate, depending on the case and the available technology/funds).

Me? I'm bisexual and male. Born male, and I don't feel like I'm anything else. Though I do like crossdressing.

[–]sethboy66 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_relative_privation

[–]doomsday1216 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah, I recall seeing this on til but couldn't call it's name to memory. Thank you!

[–]wellitsbouttime 10ポイント11ポイント  (4子コメント)

and they're free to make that point without shitting on their closest allies.

[–]clearliquidclearjar 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Trans people have traditionally supported gay issues, only to be thrown under the bus by gay groups like the Human Rights Campaign. That's the issue.

[–]djqvoteme 54ポイント55ポイント  (23子コメント)

A lot of times, transgender interests are snubbed in favour of talking about gay ones

It's not that hard to feel isolated in the LGBT sphere when the hot topic right now is "gay people this and gay people that".

We don't really talk about trans issues a lot.

[–]dork_souls 36ポイント37ポイント  (14子コメント)

While I agree that trans issues are largely ignored, I don't think using that as a platform to complain about trans issues being ignored is the right way to go about it.

As far as the LGBT community goes, the LGBT movement was started as a gay and bisexual rights movement. This movement has came to include the trans community, but transgender has nothing to do with homosexuality.

For some reason, an Us vs Them attitude is arising in the LGBT(QA+) community and it's only going to hold back progression.

[–]djqvoteme 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

You don't and I don't, but guess who does. This person.

I feel so bad that this dumb poster got such a response such as "Oppression Olympics". That's such an easy way to throw the baby out with the bath water; to simply throw away legitimate issues. Maybe that's not what /u/Carcharodon_literati meant, but that's just really disheartening to see.

This is a child. A whiny child. We are so good at ignoring children in real life, but we can't do it over the Internet for some reason.

Obviously it's not the right platform. It's clear as day!

You can't keep using "us" and "them" and treating this person like their opinion is even worthy enough for them to be a part of "them". I hate that the most. This "us" and "them" nonsense. "We" are all people and together we need to learn empathize with one another.

We can't keep expecting minorities to always give their individual 100%'s and say "oh, it would be better if they just..."! NO! A grown adult knows. A whiny, petulant child doesn't. They don't have the cognitive ability to even conceptualize the world outside of their own emotions.

Get a group of 10 people in a room and ask them to perform a single task...someone's going to fuck up. Here's our fuck up. That's just human nature.

[–]fondots 7ポイント8ポイント  (8子コメント)

Because I had to look up the abbreviation since they've apparently added some more things onto it.

From Urban Dictionary:

LGBTQA+

Initialism that stands for Lesbian, Gay,Bisexual, Transgender, Queer, Asexual, the + alludes to other sexual orientations like Pansexual.

I've also heard the Q stand for questioning recently, so I'm not sure which is the more currently accepted version.

I think it's great that more orientations/identities/etc. are starting to get more recognition so that I have to look up the latest iteration of this acronym every couple months, and I try my damnedest to understand and support them all. But I gotta say as a straight, cisgender guy who's not really personally affected by most of these issues directly and has his own issues and concerns to deal with, its damn hard to keep up with all the new shit I should be privy to, let alone trying to separate the actual LGBTQA+ issues from the 12 year old tumblrinas who identify as an interdimensional, gender-random, pony-sexual loofah sponge or some shit. I can't wait until the rest of the world gets on board with just not giving a shit and letting people do their own thing.

[–]woeskies 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

I just use gsrn (gender seuxal and romantic minorities) now since that is much safer. but they are even starting to add letters to that

[–]rinabean 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's not really "safe" seeing as it was invented by a paedophile to squeeze child rape under the umbrella of oppressed sexualities (not the first people to try). Why not stick to what we actually mean which and use whole words if we think existing acronyms don't cut it

[–]woeskies 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Can you please cite some evidence for this? Because I'm 90% sure it's bullshit. Especially since I used to see GSM but then romantic was later added on. And either way the term could be useful regardless.

[–]fordy_five 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

neither of these intialisms/arrangements of letters are "unsafe". come on with the buzzwords

[–]dork_souls 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ive also seen the A stand for Ally, so it's a bit washy. Your outlook is effectively the same as mine. I'm straight and cis so it doesn't affect me personally, so I don't give a shit what other people want to do with it as long as it's helping people

interdimensional, gender-random, pony-sexual loofah sponge

This is TiA in a nutshell

[–]Double_R55 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

As an asexual, I actually feel pretty strongly about A for asexual. We face very similar experience to bisexuals in being discriminated against by others in these communities, but with the added challenge of being wayyy less well known than other sexual orientations.

Allies on the other hand are not us, they do not face widespread discrimination by society, they do not face the same challenges we do. Giving allies a place in that is the same as including white people who support equality and destruction of institutional racism as People of Color. They just aren't, and having to compete with them to get recognition from the A is just stupid.

EDIT: To be clear, this was a western focused response, not meant to apply literally everywhere on Earth.

[–]DariaRPG -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Forget the poster, this is some crappy design right here. The more letters they add in the attempt to be inclusive the more it looks like they're purposefully excluding someone.

コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

    [–]your_mom_naked 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

    No. The gay rights movement was started by transgender people, especially trans women, with the Stonewall Riots.

    [–]Bearence 21ポイント22ポイント  (0子コメント)

    No. The current gay rights movement in the US was started by different kinds of people in groups with differing focuses, such as The Mattachine Society and The Sisters of Bilitis. That occurred in the 50s. The first riot was the Compton's Cafeteria Riot in 1966, three years before Stonewall in 1969, and involved transgender people. The rioters at Stonewall were a mix of gay men, lesbians and trans people.

    People have this idea that Stonewall happened and everything just flowed from it. It isn't true. Our history is deeper and more interesting than that, and we should embrace all of it.

    [–]howdlyhowdly 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Where in the world did you get the idea that LGBT was started exclusively for gays and bisexuals? Trans people have been a part of the movement since Stonewall, and the fact that you seem to be completely unaware of that just provides further evidence that transgender issues are too often overlooked.

    [–]dork_souls 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Because it started out as LGB, or even gay rights at one point. I never said it was exclusive to gay and bisexuals, I said it was a gay rights movement. Once momentum was gained, bringing awareness to trans issues were a priority, but so are gay rights and gay is not trans.

    I'm not overlooking anyone, just saying that the LGBT community can still push for gay rights as well as trans rights without it taking away from trans people

    [–]travio 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I think that is because trans folks don't really fit in with the other letters in the LGBQ block. Trans is not a sexual orientation. It has nothing to do with what gender you are attracted to. They face some significantly different issues than the other letters.

    [–]LilySekipink 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It's true that trans is way different than LGBQ, but many of us also fall under one of those labels.

    [–]djqvoteme 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Gender identity has a lot to do with sexuality. We live in a sexual world for Christ's sakes.

    I'm a gay man and I want trans people to feel welcome and to know that they have people that care about their problems.

    If that's your reasoning for why they're the misfits in the alphabet soup, then I'm sorry, but you're woefully unaware of the unique issues faced by each individual letter.

    Trans people have actually been a very important part of the LGBT movement.

    [–]moreexclamationmarks 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

    From what I understand, the acronym may have been a good idea initially to increase numbers, but was also problematic given that each group has it's own issues and own identities.

    While I'm straight, I've learned through gay and bi friends over the years that bi is fairly discriminated against within gay circles, for example. It's generally treated as a temporary status, but flipped for each gender. A bi guy is just gay in denial, and a bi girl is just straight in denial. In either case, bisexual is seen as temporary or even living a lie.

    It was kind of an interesting thing when I saw these attitudes first hand, because I was the straight dude thinking "I thought you were all on the same page for supporting each other?" Apparently not.

    [–]JaiTee86 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    My best friend is a lesbian I was very confused when I found out that many gay people have something against bi people but after talking to her it made a bit more sense. She has had a few women come out as bi to her confess that they have feelings for her get her to like them back then they have sex once and the girl says "oh maybe I was wrong and I'm not bi I was just confused woops sorry to have lead you on!".

    [–]mindbleach 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Something like 1 in 10 people are gay.

    Something like 1 in 1000 people are transgender.

    [–]CanadianDragon434 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I wonder if the maker of this shit knows that their are gay transgender people, such as myself

    [–]DontMentionLobsters 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

    "Oppression Olympics" is good. This poster is not "anti-gay" (/r/forwardsfromgrandma has plenty of that) but it is pretty fucking stupid.

    [–]Gaalsien 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    'Brothers! Brothers! We should be struggling together!'

    'We are!'

    [–]GrandWizardMrFunk 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Seeing as marriage equality affects trans people aswell(trans is not a sexuality, you can be trans AND gay, straight, bi and so forth ) i really have a hard time seeing why people feel the need to try and make the two issues compete with each other.

    [–]AndTheSonsofDisaster 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    SJWs can't because they have the emotional depth of a rock.

    [–]FuckedByCrap -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    No, I don't gotta love it.

    [–]VermiciousKnidzz -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    sort of the same fallacy of "AllLivesMatter," fuck that noise

    [–]drumdrum225 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    It's a race to see who can be the most oppressed and the smallest minority. Like a reverse heirarchy

    [–]Fidodo -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    We only have so much equality to give out. Gay people need to share the wealth!

    コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

      [–]guilty_by_design 121ポイント122ポイント  (9子コメント)

      Am trans. Gay marriage was hella important to me.

      Haven't legally transitioned, so wife and I are both legally female. Had to wait more than 10 feckin' years to marry her so that I could immigrate to the US to be with her. It wasn't a matter of just wanting a pretty certificate to wave in the faces of anti-LGBT people. We literally had to live on different continents for more than a decade because I couldn't legally immigrate as her spouse until same-sex marriage was legal.

      So it really grinds my gears when LGBT advocates spit on gay marriage as being a lip service gesture that hasn't helped any gay and/or trans people in any meaningful way.

      [–]LadyLizardWizard 37ポイント38ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Same here, also trans. I legally transitioned to female and I would like to marry my fiancee, also female, and so I obviously benefit from this. And I celebrated with all of my various lgbt friends.

      [–]guilty_by_design 19ポイント20ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Congratulations on both the legal transition and the engagement!

      [–]tsoliman 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

      This is going to come off as stupid, but, as a person who was in a similar situation, why didn't she come to wherever you were and live there for those 10 years?

      (We barely survived a little over a year of a long distance relationship, and she was going to school so she couldn't come over right away but she eventually did for a while)

      [–]guilty_by_design 15ポイント16ポイント  (4子コメント)

      Believe me, we tried, and just thinking about the blocks my country - the bleedin' UK, supposed to be progressive and whatnot - put up to stop her immigrating makes my blood boil all over again.

      Firstly, a tourist visa is valid for 6 months. She would often visit me, but usually only stayed a few weeks (and vice versa) because of her job.

      We didn't actually get gay marriage until after the US, although we had civil unions for a while prior, which bestowed almost equal rights. However, the biggest caveat for immigration is income. I'll come back to that.

      The path that seemed most feasible to us initially was via education. We met online as teens (14 and 13), and had visited each other regularly for several years as we got more serious. She decided to study in the UK for a degree, which would let her live here for the duration of her studies (3 years) and so we could try out living together. Which we did. She took out massive loans (that are crippling us now) and pumped around £40,000 into the UK economy by studying here.

      At the time, there was a law that allowed international students to remain in the UK for a year after graduating to look for work, and then apply to stay. This was what we were counting on. Then, two weeks after she graduated, as we were still collecting documentation to file for her stay, the fucking government changed the law and removed that option for staying in the UK.

      We were livid, but we kept looking for work for her anyway. She got a brilliant job offer from a modelmaking enterprise that was really interested in her, but they were unable to sponsor her. This was what happened again and again. Job offers, but none willing to go to the trouble of sponsoring an international applicant when they could hire a UK citizen.

      So, we finally came back around to the civil union/partner option. This would have been fine except for the financial caveat; you have to be earning £18,600 per year for six months in order to sponsor your partner, or have equivalent savings. I was only earning around £14,400 and had nothing left for savings.

      The crappy part is that my wife was earning easily more than the minimum amount back in the US, but her earnings don't count. You can't use your partner's income, and you can't have a cosigner or accept help from family. Believe me, we explored every fucking avenue.

      We'd seen lawyers, gone to the Citizen's Advice Bureau, asked Immigration Equality for help... we were literally on the verge of having her just come to the UK and work 'under the table' when, lo and behold, the USA dropped DOMA.

      You would not believe how much easier it is to sponsor a spouse to the USA than it is to the UK. We got married, filed the paper work, and I had my green card in a matter of months. The financial cap is much lower (thank God, with her fucking UK school loans...), co-signers are allowed, and both incomes are counted.

      Sorry for the lengthy rant... I get heated just thinking about the hoops we jumped through and the debt we're in because of how shitty the UK family immigration process is.

      Edit: typos

      [–]tsoliman 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Wow!

      Well, I am glad you're finally together! My horror stories with immigration pale in comparison!

      [–]guilty_by_design 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      It's been a bumpy ride, but we've been living together in NJ for almost three years now, and next year I'll be able to extend my green card to 10 years. Then, one year into that, I can apply for naturalisation as a US citizen if I want to. I'm pretty happy :)

      [–]HuevoSplash 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Can she bail on the UK loans?

      [–]guilty_by_design 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

      No. Her loans went towards the UK school, but as she's a US citizen she had to take them out with Sallie Mae (now Navient) in the US, so she's stuck. The USA, whilst having far superior immigration processes for spouses, does suck with student loans. Unlike in the UK where you have to be earning a certain amount, you have to start repaying US immediately... and with massive interest.

      She did manage to get the payments lowered a bit this year so she's not just paying off the interest, but still almost half her pay is eaten up by the loans.

      I have loans too, but mine were taken out in the UK. Every six months they send me a letter asking for evidence that I'm not earning [X] amount and/or am being mostly supported financially by my spouse (we live with my in-laws, we can't even afford our own place because of her loans) and so far they've accepted that... but we're pretty much screwed if they ever start demanding my repayments, too.

      [–]quantum_titties 70ポイント71ポイント  (9子コメント)

      But, same sex marriage being legal helps trans people. Assuming you are a straight trans person, you don't have to legally transition to marry your partner.

      [–]djqvoteme 39ポイント40ポイント  (6子コメント)

      In the LGBT world, there's a lot of segmentation and isolation.

      There are "radical" gays that actually oppose gay marriage because they see it us kowtowing to straight people and the "gay identity" eroding.

      I can understand how they reached that conclusion, but just like our friends creation that OP linked, they are really just petulant children with lots of emotions that don't know how to quite verbalize their feelings or present something that we can empathize with.

      [–]quantum_titties 15ポイント16ポイント  (3子コメント)

      I'm on the gay side of bi, so I definitely know about gay culture.

      The people you're talking about go way beyond seeing gay marriage as immoral. They see gay men preferring being a top or a bottom as assimilating into straight gender roles. They see masculine, or sometimes just non-effeminate, gay men as trying to hide their gayness or assimilate into straightness. They see bi guys and gay guys who associate with them as scum. And let me tell you, the list goes on.

      Gay guys like this and their retard friends they convince are bat-shit crazy, I do not understand how they reach their conclusions at all. To me, they have the same spirit as white people who didn't want others whites to marry blacks or women feminists who shame a woman for doing porn. They believe their belief system is the only one that's correct and shame everyone who doesn't follow it. They are extremely bigoted people obsessed with putting everyone in a box and separating them.

      [–]djqvoteme 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I do not understand how they reach their conclusions at al

      We live in a very heteronormative society where "straight" is just the de rigueur standard.

      Now, I'm gay and young myself (21), so I don't really know that much of the nascent period of the modern "gay culture" in the 70s and 80s, but apparently that's where the identity was formed.

      Gay people felt like they were pushed to the peripheries of society and so, they became this sort of close-knit community with a shared identity and they had a good thing going. Fast forward to when our penis-in-vagina-obsessed cultured is becoming a bit more accepting to the queer thing, and then the people that subscribed to that idea of a "gay identity" feel a bit threatened. It's like "look at this nice thing we have here, why do they have to act like that to please the straights?!?!"

      You see this sort of thing in all sorts of minority communities. For all of ethnic minorities living in the US (I live in Canada personally, you see this here too), you see the concept of "acting white".

      It's a tale as old as time.

      And it's laughable that you think they are "putting everyone in a box and separating them". They obviously don't see it like that. They are "children". Think about how children see the world around them. Some people never learn better, including our trans friend here.

      [–]quantum_titties 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I still don't understand. I don't think I ever will.

      The hallmark of having equal rights and equal opportunities is choice. Trying to limit the choices of others based on their identity is saying that their identity is not equal and does not have or deserve the same choice. So applying that to your own identity is ludicrous, it's like being upset your shackles have been removed.

      I could understand being sad over seeing your culture vanish, but this reactionary gay sentiment is something I've only seen in young people, not that I hang out with many older gay guys, I'm 23.

      The whole stance lacks critical thought. It amounts to being upset that everyone who you define to be like you is not exactly like you.

      [–]djqvoteme 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

      The whole stance lacks critical thought

      Well, yes, that is what it is borne from. That's why crazies exist. That was the point I wanted to bring across.

      Identifying what and why the crazies think what they do is a great way of arguing against them instead of just having a blind shouting match where people aren't seeing eye-to-eye.

      It's not respecting their opinion, it's helping them find the door to escape their delusions.

      [–]fordy_five -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

      you're really using this "children" thing as a crutch. almost none of these people are children

      [–]djqvoteme 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I've been involved in some of the crazier side of the LGBT thing. Not the way out radical shit, Christ no, but it got weird.

      My coping mechanism was essentially just treating them like children. It's something I just do automatically now.

      It's way better for keeping your composure, trust me.

      [–]PokemasterTT 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Yeah it does. In my country one needs to divorce if they want a sex change.

      [–]LilySekipink 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I'm trans and gay, so gay marriage was a big deal to me.

      I haven't legally transitioned, but I'd like to be able to get married when I do.

      [–]Dispari_Scuro 9ポイント10ポイント  (7子コメント)

      This is really dumb (besides the design aspect of it, I mean). I'm trans, but marriage equality is important for us too. Also, gay people have issues having access to healthcare, jobs, and being killed, bullied, or driven to suicide too. In fact, now that marriage passed nationwide, the next battle is no doubt going to be legal protection under the law, because LGBT people are not protected everywhere, and in many states can still be fired for it.

      FFS, it's not a competition. We should be working together.

      [–]Forward_Delusions 6ポイント7ポイント  (6子コメント)

      On the day marriage equality happened, I saw a post by radical trans activists about how that day was "a loss for total gender equality" and I have no idea why or how they could think that. It had like four thousand likes. People have a right to be upset, but saying this wasn't progress, no, saying it was actually a step backward?? come on.

      [–]Dispari_Scuro 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

      Lots of trans people needed that to happen, because legal battles with transgender people are always at odds with their gender identity. If a transwoman wanted to marry someone, depending on where they live, someone could make arguments to deny them the right to marry EITHER gender, if they really wanted to (and believe me, they really want to, all the time). Making it legal for people to marry whatever gender they please is a win for trans people everywhere.

      [–]Forward_Delusions 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

      Exactly! I don't understand why some people didn't get this at all.

      [–]Dispari_Scuro 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Makes me wonder if this sort of stuff is just a troll created by opponents, in order to create infighting.

      [–]Forward_Delusions 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Maybe. But I'm pretty sure we wouldn't need the opponents to do that for us I mean, have you seen us? We're the cause of a lot of our in fighting.

      [–]doomrabbit 25ポイント26ポイント  (12子コメント)

      Can we stop people from killing us?

      [–]Carricre 23ポイント24ポイント  (8子コメント)

      The poster is likely referring to the Gay/Trans Panic Defense laws, or lack thereof. And the fact that in the US, only one state actually bans the use of this defense.

      [–]willardfillmore 16ポイント17ポイント  (6子コメント)

      Just because it isn't explicitly banned as a defense doesn't mean that it's legal to kill trans people. It just means that in court, the defendant is allowed to claim this as their defense. It also has never worked as a defense.

      [–]murphymc 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

      Right, you can claim just about anything as a defense. Whether a Jury/judge actually accepts that is entirely different.

      Consider some of our most infamous murderers, they've claimed a dog or "The Catcher in the Rye" made them kill people.

      [–]BeardedForHerPleasur 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Honestly we shouldn't ban it. It has never once worked and has resulted in guilty verdicts/guilty pleas every single time it has been attempted in the US.

      [–]murphymc 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Yea, leave it alone IMO. It's an affirmative defense, so if you want to argue it you need to also admit outright that you are in fact responsible for the dead person, and then you get to try and convince 12 jurors, and the judge, that someone being different from you is an acceptable reason for then to die. Good luck with that.

      [–]Layman76plz recycle 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Right, there's no possible way it could make trans people uncomfortable, like confederate flags don't make black people uncomfortable. even the existence of it can give somebody the idea they might get away with it.

      [–]BeardedForHerPleasur 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      It's not really a finite thing. It's just a potential defense. Not an official part of any legislation.

      [–]Carricre 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      You make excellent points, you are also preaching to the choir. I was just pointing out that this was likely what they were referring to.

      [–]Forward_Delusions 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      It's actually specifically talking about trans women getting murdered at a higher rate than cis people.

      [–]IntrovertedPendulum 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Not really but we will catch the killer!

      [–]DickFeely -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Yes! I realize this is courting downvotes, but ill say it anyway: Support the 2nd amendment and join groups like the Pink Pistols. Self-defense is a human right and appealing to some possibly discriminatory 3rd party for protection rarely helps outsider groups.

      [–]doomrabbit 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

      God created all men, but Sam Colt made them equal.

      [–]Camton 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

      It's like that one time my black friend and my Jewish friend argued over whether the Holocaust or Slavery was worse.

      [–]jedrekk 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Hm, weird, my gay friends are like, "please stop killing us" too.

      [–]IWugYouWugHeSheMeWug 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Wait, what? There's massive overlap here! Even right there on the poster!

      Can we get healthcare?

      Well, if you want to get on your spouse's healthcare plan, you kinda need a marriage license, don't ya?

      [–]Forward_Delusions 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Trans people are often denied health care based on the assumption that their medical needs are "cosmetic". so even if they got their spouse's insurance they still have a lot people's of ignorances to overcome in that area.

      [–]IWugYouWugHeSheMeWug 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Of course, but the issues aren't mutually exclusive. Legalizing same-sex marriage doesn't cause these other issues, it goes along with these other issues.

      [–]queer-mo-sexual 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

      "I AM UNJUSTIFIED IN MY CONVICTIONS AND UNREASONABLE IN DISCUSSION. MY IMPATIENCE AND INTOLERANCE ARE CHILDISH. THIS IS EVIDENCED BY MY CONSTANT YELLING. I HAVE A BIG HEAD."

      "I am intelligent and level-headed. I represent the correct viewpoint because of my composure, my inside voice, and my correct use of capitalization. My head is of a normal size."

      [–]Rawscent 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Apparently the Trans Pride Initiative has no memory of Matthew Shepard or AIDS or practically anything.

      [–]quadbaser 17ポイント18ポイント  (4子コメント)

      Anti-Gay?? No.

      [–]gigyas6 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

      It's showing gay people as being aggressive, loud, and selfish (top two pictures and general tone of writing in the "gay message") whereas trans people are calm, collected, and only want to live a nice peaceful quiet life unlike anyone else. This is a common political ploy.

      [–]MistakeNotDotDotDot 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Yeah, I'm not seeing what's 'anti-gay' about this.

      [–]quadbaser 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

      sounds like OP is just trying to stir up shit

      [–]MistakeNotDotDotDot 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Nah, that would imply that someone on Reddit would be taking an overly-extreme view of a marginalized group's dissatisfaction. Surely that would never happen!

      Plus the design isn't even all that crappy. I've seen worse shit get fewer upvotes.

      [–]mickcube 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

      i like that young david lynch in the lower right

      [–]greenbedsheets 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

      "Folks"

      [–]bunsencashface 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      pack it up people, folks is a slur now

      [–]CouldWeStartAgain 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

      As a trans person, that poster is fucking stupid.

      [–]SirPringles 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

      I mean, without getting too much into politics, this is exactly what people who hate both groups want. If they are fighting each other they can't unite against a common enemy. Instead of saying "we should get more rights now, not you", minorities should be saying "we should all have equal rights, right now".

      [–]gigyas6 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Wow. You know, it's good gay people never had or have to go through sheltering their entire life away for access to work and healthcare. And it's not like gay people are ever at any risk of being murdered.

      [–]Crystal_Clods 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Not really anti-gay, from the looks of it. Just someone pointing out (with entirely justified outrage) that marriage equality, while important, is not the only issue or even necessarily the most pressing issue facing the broader LGBT community.

      [–]BansheeBomb -1ポイント0ポイント  (13子コメント)

      Trans people think they have it tough, they have no idea what it's like being a demisexual voidkin.

      [–]ohthatwasme 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

      That's a pretty shitty joke.

      [–]ThisIsGoobly 3ポイント4ポイント  (9子コメント)

      Are "jokes" made for taking the piss out of the struggles trans people and LGBT people in general face really necessary?

      Edit: You post in places like /r/kotakuinaction and /r/tumblrinaction so I'm not expecting you to take anything out of this other than "hurr durr dumb sjw's".

      コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

        [–]Galveira 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        How do people not know to put an outline around your text? It's one of the simplest tricks in the book and makes everything look better.

        [–]PrincessPi 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        My problems are more important than your problems!

        [–]Facepalms4Everyone 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Man, nothing like undermining the most significant achievement in your movement's history to really stoke the fires of motivation to achieve your other goals.

        It's like they say: The only way to win a war is to ridicule those who helped win one of its most important battles.

        [–]rpfailrainbow 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        How the hell is this anti-gay? Like it's a shitty message and all, but its not anti-gay.

        [–]FREETHOUGHTSOPEN 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        This is too funny and counterproductive for both sides lol.

        [–]DPick02 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

        I'm straight and I would also like to not be killed please.

        [–]mypersonnalreader 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Why is this sub turning right wing lately?

        [–]Necrothus 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        The shark. It has been jumped.

        [–]soparamens 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Marriage is an old fashioned, religious in origin, ceremonial bullshit. There's way more important things than having the rigth to marry. Inheriting and having healthcare is serious business, but it should not be tied to all the marriage crap.

        [–]planetshopper 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Where did you find this poster? Source?

        [–]BCSteve 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Is this really crappy design? Sure it's a stupid poster because of the message, but I don't think it's the design that's bad, it's the content.

        [–]Forward_Delusions 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        White text over a collage of pictures. No clear flow through the image. Looks like it could have been made by a child in ms paint.

        "Is this really a crappy design?"

        [–]TheContrarian2 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Slap fight!

        [–]adrian_elliot -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Gross

        コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)