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DiscussionOn this day 28 years ago, one of the world's finest musicians succumbed to injuries from a savage beating. RIP John Francis (Jaco) Pastorius, World's Greatest Bassplayer ("it aint braggin' if you can back it up"). (self.Music)

Red5BillyBumbler が 投稿

Anyone who hasnt heard this man play should look into his self-titled debut from 1976, and if you enjoy jazz, then dig into some Weather Report.

Anyone who is further interested in his life can read the excellent biography by Bill Milkowski, The Extraordinary and Tragic Life of Jaco Pastorius.

"Who loves ya, babe?"

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[–]MenuBar 112ポイント113ポイント  (14子コメント)

Met Jaco a few days before he died. He told my buddy if he buys him a drink, he'll let him play with him next gig. But bartender said "You buy him a drink and you're both outta here." He immediately reached over and grabbed some chick's fruity drink and slugged it down while she said "...hey that's my drink"

[–]L0d0vic0_Settembr1n1 70ポイント71ポイント  (13子コメント)

In his later years he apparently became a massive, deranged, troublemaking asshat. Of course he din't deserve the beating though, he should have gotten some preofessional help.

[–]yuckyucky 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

he got help, but it wasn't enough.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaco_Pastorius#Behavior_and_health_problems

[–]joho0 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Wow. They Baker Acted him in 1982. He definitely had some serious mental health issues.

[–]Bottled_Void [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Wow, the guy that beat him to death only got 4 months in jail.

[–]enc0gnito [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

He got 22 months and 5 years probation but got paroled in 4 months for good behavior and time served waiting for trial.

[–]njgoaway 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Later years? Jaco was always a douche

[–]elmingus 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Manic depression plus cocaine can do that to you. But he did get some help shortly before died when he was trying to turn his career around.

[–]GolgiApparatus1 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

The geniuses are usually sort of 'off' in one way or another.

[–]southernstorm [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

actually most studies indicate people with extremely "high intelligence" tend to be on average slightly better adjusted than people with "low intelligence"

im definitely not trying to say there aren't geniuses that are wierd or off as you put it. I am just trying to say it is on average a little less common than if those same people had below average intelligence.

i also recognize you were not necessarily talking about only intelligence, but rather about genius in all its myriad forms. i have a lot less to say on that subject because i havent seen studies that specialized.

コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

    [–]Vortesian [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Sure, if my asshat you mean a person with mental illness. It's funny, as the years go by, you hear more and more about his behavior than his musical impact. I saw Jaco in Boston and New York a whole lot, and sure, I saw him act like a douche. But still, everybody who saw him play knew he was a genius.

    [–]wearemostlywater 27ポイント28ポイント  (36子コメント)

    Luc Havan was arrested again in 2014 for assault. http://www.jailbase.com/en/arrested/fl-pbso/2014-03-28/luc-havan-201403280455595

    [–]Dickdirt 1ポイント2ポイント  (33子コメント)

    he should do an ama

    [–]yuckyucky 16ポイント17ポイント  (32子コメント)

    and more time than he did

    In the wake of Pastorius' death, Havan was charged with second degree murder but later pleaded guilty to manslaughter. Because he had no prior convictions, and recognizing time served while waiting for the verdict, he was sentenced to 22 months in prison, and five years' probation. After four months in prison, he was paroled for good behavior.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaco_Pastorius#Death

    [–]XxmunkehxX 23ポイント24ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I mean, he was the bouncer at the club that Jaco was breaking into. Can I get a little more context than the wiki, because it seems like a case of B&E by Jaco, and people get shot over that sometimes.

    [–]BedriddenSam [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    He had fractured skull and face and his eye was partly out of his socket. You doing get to do that because a mentally ill musician breaks a window and acts wierd, douche or not. Seriously.

    [–]AsthmaticActivist 1ポイント2ポイント  (29子コメント)

    he was working as a bouncer and a mentally ill man broke part of the establishment, he made a mistake but don't paint him as a murderer.

    [–]299152595 25ポイント26ポイント  (18子コメント)

    Are you fucking kidding me?

    [Jaco’s] skull had been fractured; several facial bones were fractured; his right eye was ruptured and dislodged from its socket; and there was massive internal bleeding. The beating was so intense that Jaco’s teeth went through his lips, and Havan’s ring was imprinted on Jaco’s cheek. There was also heavy bleeding from Jaco’s ear, nose, and mouth. [I’ll also add that had Jaco lived, he would have permanently lost the use of his right eye and his left arm, according to his doctors].

    That is most definitely fucking murder. The man was a 3rd degree black belt. Pastorius was a scrawny musician. He should have called the cops if Pastorius was being that belligerent. He had no right to beat the man like that, regardless of how much of an asshole he was being.

    Edit: This was Havan's statement (an outright fucking lie to cover his ass because he knows he murdered the man):

    In a sworn statement by defendant Havan, Pastorius began to kick the front door of the bottle club. Havan opened the door and Pastorius fled. Havan struck Pastorius with his right hand, causing Pastorius to fall and become unconscious. Havan turned from Pastorius and walked away, leaving him unconscious.

    [–]Mycatispickles 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

    So breaking. A door warrants a brutal beating to death? He murdered him.

    [–]AsthmaticActivist [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

    he kicks in a door, a bouncer tried to force him to leave and he fought him. did he deserve to die? no. was he murdered? no, he was belligerent towards someone just doing his job. I'm not saying the bouncer didn't go too far, he did, and he paid his debt for that. it's not like he executed him.

    [–]jonnyclueless [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    When people get violent and leaving no other option but physical force, bad things happen. For every incident like this there is a certain percentage that are going to lead to death. It's simply a statistical factor that will always exist.

    Too many people on here don't seem to understand the difference between murder and manslaughter.

    [–]AsthmaticActivist [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    yes! thank you. the guy is a bouncer trying to deal with a belligerent person, shit happens.

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        コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

          [–]he_adds_nothing 69ポイント70ポイント  (30子コメント)

          Much like Zappa I respect his music more than I like it.

          [–]KingClam2 32ポイント33ポイント  (11子コメント)

          There's a lot of boring Zappa music. If you haven't listened to "We're Only in it for the Money" and "Apostrophe" then give those a try. I've gotten several people to "finally" like Zappa by playing those two albums. They're inviting, at times catchy, and superbly crafted from start to finish.

          [–]Pr0ducer 11ポイント12ポイント  (9子コメント)

          Try Zappa's "Shut Up and Play Yer Guitar," "The Return of the Son of Shut Up and Play Yer Guitar," and "Shut Up and Play Yer Guitar Some More."

          [–]KingClam2 9ポイント10ポイント  (8子コメント)

          Up'n*

          Up'n*

          Up'n*

          I have... it's boring for me :(

          Technically, it's incredible! But I will not spend much time listening to it. Not saying it isn't good...

          [–]errbodiesmad [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

          I respect the guitar playing techniques but I'm more into "catchy" music. Reddit will probably kill me for saying that. I wanna sing along and dance not sit down and examine every sound their instruments make.

          [–]bowlthrasher [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

          Great music can have both.

          [–]KingClam2 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

          And sometimes it doesn't.

          [–]errbodiesmad [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          Which is what I like. It's not like I don't appreciate a great lead guitar part but those 25 minute solos? Save that for the opera and the Phish concert man.

          [–]ChipSchafer [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

          Half of Frank's stuff is ridiculously catchy. He loves lampooning pop from different eras. Bobby Brown Goes Down is the first example I can think of.

          [–]errbodiesmad [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          I do like a lot of Zappa's earlier stuff when it was still focused on more Rock style but his later experimental stuff became boring for me because I'm not really into Jazz

          [–]ChipSchafer [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          It's hard to get into Frank, especially for non musicians. His biting wit did it for me. Then I started realizing how organic and conversational his arrangements were. Not just a study in complexity, but theatrics too.

          That said, I find about half his library pretty dry. Different strokes.

          [–]DJEnright [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          I love the Shut Ups, but they're not super accessible. When people tell me they don't like Zappa's guitar solos, I point them at Watermelon in Easter Hay. That one's pretty hard to find fault with. If you don't like it, I don't really have much else for you.

          [–]ATX5 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          He was so incredibly prolific. Only a hardcore Zappa fan could like all those albums, there were some definite duds in there. And some others that are just completely amazing.

          [–]skyburrito 6ポイント7ポイント  (6子コメント)

          FZ has many different eras with different styles and themes.

          His Progressive Rock / Jazz Fusion era is my favorite, and it's probably what you should be getting into. My suggestion is to listen to one of his best (Live shows](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QRx8cC1eix4) then go back and track the studio albums where the songs came from.

          [–]HumphreysMcGoo[🍰] 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

          If you don't already know.. You should check out Umphrey's McGee.

          [–]advancedrenewal [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

          never heard of them. Thanks for the tip!

          [–]Dr_PhilGood89 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          The guy from Field Trip is unbelievable. Pick any track and I promise you it's badass. https://soundcloud.com/field-trip-jams/tracks

          [–]fingcircles [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

          I would also recommend the 1973 Roxy and Elsewhere album if someone was looking for the best live representations.

          They're currently working on a live DVD based on the Roxy performances

          [–]skyburrito [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          I ate a hotdog, it tasted real gooood, then I watched a movie from hollywoooood...

          Roxy is by far better, but also weirder. Best Band is more for average consumption, hence why I mentioned it.

          [–]thisNewFoundLand [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          ...Roxy and Elsewhere is phenomenal. Yes, DVD please.
          'The Bebop Tango' is a master class. Love George Duke -- and what a band!

          "The cowbell, ladies and gentlemen, as a symbol of unbridled passion"

          [–]GolgiApparatus1 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

          Same with Captain Beefheart for me.

          [–]DJEnright [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          I'm a big fan, but he put out a lot of crap. Safe as Milk is a good place to start. The tunes are good, less weird than Trout Mask (still pretty weird though), but more artistically satisfying than some of his poppier stuff.

          コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

            [–]barto5 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

            That's a great description. It captures perfectly how I feel about - forgive me - Jimi Hendrix.

            [–]cptpedantic [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            i'm with you man, amazingly talented but i can't say i actually enjoy listening to more than a handful of his songs. As a friend of mine says, "If i could play like Jimi Hendrix, I wouldn't"

            コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

              [–]answerstothedreamwww.soundcloud.com/answerstothedream 30ポイント31ポイント  (17子コメント)

              So many complex feels right now. I was born after he died and yet his impact on me has been great.

              For the uninitiated:

              [–]Red5BillyBumbler[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

              Cool thanks, im new posting to this sub and thought all links were disabled today.

              Kuru, Speak Like a Child, probably my favorite of anything he did, despite the bass just repeating the one line. Herbie Hancock kills it on this.

              Come On, Come Over, Sam and Dave reunited to sing on this. If nothing else, all the people who ever played with him was testament to his respect among so many great artists.

              ED: FRIDAYS not Mondays are link-disabled.

              Funny thing about weekends when you're unemployed... they dont mean quite so much.

              [–]cynical_bohunk 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Also the live performance of the The Chicken(with soul intro).

              [–]answerstothedreamwww.soundcloud.com/answerstothedream [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              Herbie Hancock is probably my all time favorite musician. When I first heard Jaco's eponymous album and recognized Herbie's sound, I was blown away. For me, there's nothing more pure out there.

              [–]AlexBagheri 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

              Continuum is the greatest and most ethereal soundscape of all time.

              [–]Vynakros 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

              First time I heard of him, but am already in love. Great stuff!

              [–]answerstothedreamwww.soundcloud.com/answerstothedream [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              I'm glad to be a part of your Jaco experience!

              [–]furiousn1k 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

              Can't forget Donna Lee - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdqje73KQwg

              Dude could rip on a bass

              [–]answerstothedreamwww.soundcloud.com/answerstothedream [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              Literally took a boss Miles Davis piece and made it even better.

              [–]translunar_injection 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

              Damn, now I just want to listen to the whole album again. Portrait of Tracey is the one in this batch for me, followed by Continuum.

              [–]answerstothedreamwww.soundcloud.com/answerstothedream [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              I'm right there with you brother man.

              [–]MerelyIndifferent [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

              Ready to be downvoted, but just throwing this out there.

              His skill is rarely matched im sure, but I just don't find his sound appealing at all. To me its skill without much artistic inspiration.

              [–]answerstothedreamwww.soundcloud.com/answerstothedream [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              Hey man, your opinion is your opinion. For me Jaco represents every sound in my head I've always wanted to hear on the bass. Naturally when I first heard him his resonance reverberated with me.

              [–]Dogribb 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

              Were murder charges made ?

              [–]larrod25 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

              From Wiki: In the wake of Pastorius' death, Havan was charged with second degree murder but later pleaded guilty to manslaughter. Because he had no prior convictions, and recognizing time served while waiting for the verdict, he was sentenced to 22 months in prison, and five years' probation. After four months in prison, he was paroled for good behavior.[28]

              [–]gerrutaSpotify 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Wow, I had no idea he had died like that. Birdland was amazing - I remember when my frind who knew I loved bass sent it to me with the subject of Bassland.

              [–]BuckyDuster 45ポイント46ポイント  (66子コメント)

              Jaco was a great Bass player for sure but nobody likes a loud mouthed braggart regardless of their abilities

              [–]whogivesashirtdotca 112ポイント113ポイント  (27子コメント)

              And yet Donald Trump is leading the Republican primaries.

              [–]FoodBeerBikesMusic 25ポイント26ポイント  (9子コメント)

              ....at first, I laughed, but then...

              [–]StuckInaTriangle 7ポイント8ポイント  (8子コメント)

              You got the sadz?

              [–]Kwangone 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

              Me too, it hurts my feel-bads.

              [–]Blond_Treehorn_Thug 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

              The feel-bads are the feeliest of the feels

              [–]DAS_UBER_JOE 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I came here to laugh, not to feel, you monsters!

              [–]deleated 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I find quiet melancholy to be feelier.

              コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                [–]coolguy1793B 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                it only smadz

                [–]Opusthegreat [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Guyz, don't even joke about that

                [–]gasfarmer -2ポイント-1ポイント  (15子コメント)

                Well, because he's a loud mouthed braggart - but he's also being really honest about how fucked up the system is.

                Passion politics; and it's working.

                I can't blame him. He's actually a decent candidate (Edit to clarify:) He stands a very good chance of winning if he can surround himself with good policy makers.

                Do note that I'm Canadian as fuck. So all I know is what I've caught on our news about your election, and what I've seen from the debates.

                Edit: Meh, I'll take the downvotes to start a discussion. If you downvote - contribute!

                [–]whogivesashirtdotca 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                I'm Canadian too, and if you think a loud mouthed braggart being honest about a system fucked-uppedness can make a change for the good, you haven't been living in Toronto during the Ford era.

                [–]gasfarmer 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I wasn't saying it's a good thing. I was saying it's a recipe for immense political success in the right climate.

                Mulcair is trying the same thing - Trudeau is too, but he actually has a platform.

                [–]AsthmaticActivist 2ポイント3ポイント  (10子コメント)

                he really isn't a good candidate. He seems to have a very twisted view on what the president can and cannot do coupled with wild ego and an anti-Mexican sentiment. He appeals to people's fears because he doesn't seem to know any more than they do.

                [–]Mycatispickles 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                He has no chance of winning a general election. Most of America hates him. Don't confuse primary fanatics with American voters.

                [–]bongozap 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                He stands a very good chance of winning if he can surround himself with good policy makers.

                Which he won't do.

                [–]TedTheGreek_Atheos 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

                He suffered from bi polar disorder that was exacerbated by drug use.

                [–]BuckyDuster [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                I didn't know that, but I can certainly relate.

                [–]miraitrader [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                Tell that to Kanye's fans.

                [–]thisNewFoundLand 20ポイント21ポイント  (4子コメント)

                ...sad, tiny reddit got to piss on the memory of a dead man, even.

                My favourite Jaco is a little unusual -- with Joni Mitchell as part of the greatest back-up band ever assembled: Pat Metheny on guitar, Jaco, Lyle Mays on keys, Michael Brecker on sax, and Don Alias on kit/perc.

                This is Hejira live. Jaco and Don Alias are brilliant together.
                https://youtu.be/OhpwSemx5Ls
                ー go to 32:30 in to hear Metheny's solo leading to a breathtaking performance of Hejira. (on mobile and can't negotiate a direct drop).

                Joni is a genius.
                Jaco is Hendrix for bass -- it was a before-and-after line, and nothing was the same when he arrived on the scene.

                edit:
                https://youtu.be/rNlKgFrDYio
                Jaco's debut from 1976 -- the cover of Miles Davis' Donna Lee right off the top sent musicians everywhere back to the woodshed (Don Alias again on congas).

                Flea on Jaco:
                https://youtu.be/lAsE0HI2DJc

                Metheny on Jaco:
                https://youtu.be/YhO6Q-eMbV8

                the sublime Joe Zawinul on Jaco: go to 5 minutes in for English https://youtu.be/OvnUHLezD7A

                Victor Wooten covering Jaco's 'Teen Town':
                https://youtu.be/1tY2mx8KSBY
                Jaco's original 'Teen Town' with Weather Report. How articulate are those bass lines?!? (Jaco is also on drums). https://youtu.be/lSUk8bSVHYc
                From the same album "Heavy Weather": the astounding 'Havona' -- Jaco flies in after 40 seconds, and quickly confirms he is in a class by himself. https://youtu.be/sMQUFvv0WRY

                Finally -- a real bonus if you've gotten this deep:
                Part 1 of a 4 part BBC radio documentary on Jaco
                https://youtu.be/tTcbTg8O548

                [–]sonofherb [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Upvoted for Hejira. Jaco's finest work, IMO.

                [–]Sp00mp [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                "Bass players used to be the ones standin' in the back, when Jaco first played Donna Lee, it sure changed thaaaaat"

                [–]Captain_Arrrg [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                If you forget about Mingus leading his band from the front of the stage, bass in hand, then sure.

                [–]usquarter [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Sure he did it, but it wasn't until more modern cats like jaco, Wooten and Clarke that is became common in jazz for the bass to be a lead instrument

                [–]RoryButler 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Some of the comments here are ridiculous.

                Yes he was an arrogant self-saboteur who acted like a bit of a dick, yes the idea of "world's greatest bass player" is subjective, but this is a post in memorial of a great musician who died too young. Yet you've got people here saying "He was a dick, of course he died getting beaten up", and "No, Charles Mingus is a better bass player". Like any of that is relevant.

                Jaco is hands down my favourite bass player, an absolute technical monster with incredible tone (can't stress how much I love the Jaco sound!) and musicality. His life story is so tragic too, it's so sad that because of his attitude mixed with his apparent mental health problems, he burned so many bridges and none of his prior bandmates or friends were there to help him out in his most disastrous years.

                I highly highly recommend Pat Metheny's Bright Size Life album which features Jaco on bass, great work from all three players on the album. Has to be my favourite recording with Jaco on bass, the solo on Midwestern Night's Dream gives me straight up chills. Unfortunately I can't find the recording on youtube, but I suggest people check it out!

                [–]stgioia 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                A lot of people arguing that Jaco was a douche and had it coming. No one deserves to lose his life in a stupid way like this, being a jerk or not. And Jaco had a mental illness that might explain his erratic behavior.

                [–]Balls2TheFloor 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                28 years later, the Rage virus surfaces again.

                [–]Cyberman80 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                This happened 4 blocks from my house!

                Wilton Drive, Wilton Manors FL

                I live in Ft. Lauderdale across the "Moat" from WM

                I only learned the details about 18 months ago when I was at a local farmers market in Jaco Pastorius Park Ft. Lauderdale FL

                [–]jacksaces 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I hear a lot of folks calling Jaco a asshole. How is that relevant to his music? I can separate the man from his music, never met him and he may indeed been suffering with M.H. issues, that alone helps me divorce his behavior from his music. Ya'll need to lighten the fuck up.

                [–]CswBizzel 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                How have I never heard of this guy? I'm gob-smacked that I've never run accross his name before. I will certainly be checking out some of his stuff.

                [–]NeatAnecdoteBrother 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

                That quote makes no sense. It's only bragging when you can back it up

                [–]dudemanxx 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Well I guess it's just a twist on it. Bragging is usually seen as something you back up, but it's not much of a stretch to see that bragging, just by its nature, should leave a bit, if not all, to chance and bravado.

                [–]NeatAnecdoteBrother 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                The definition of brag is to boast about your achievements or skills etc. so if you never had the skill to begin with then it wouldn't even be bragging, it would just be lying.

                You can't brag about something you've never done

                [–]Red5BillyBumbler[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Sorry? He said it, not me.

                [–]miraoister 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                yeah he was a real jazz cat.

                [–]goodgulfgrayteeth 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Best stuff he did is on the album "Heavy Weather" by Weather Report...

                [–]Greedo_Shotfirst 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                The original Nyan Cat ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqashW66D7o

                [–]consolas 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Check jaco and scofield - chicken. So cool!

                [–]GnomeTalmbout 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                For anyone interested I found an article from 1989 when Luc Haven (bouncer who beat Jaco) was released from prison: http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1989-07-04/news/8902190261_1_gain-time-jaco-pastorius-luc-havan

                [–]baasnote 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                RIP fellow bass bro

                [–]jjness 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I had no idea that's how he went out. Whatever his personal problems, he was a hell of a guitarist, that's for sure.

                [–]PM_ME_UR_UR [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                One of the best bassists to ever do it. Had the privilege to cover one of his solos for a gig, dude was incredible.

                [–]RDay [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Oldies are the besties.

                [–]jkb_89 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                For those Jaco fans check out his brilliant bass solo at 1:19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRbo1A4A0rw

                Ian Hunter - All American Alien Boy

                It's probably my favourite bass solo. So effortless and cool.

                [–]albertfishticks [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Jaco was not always a douche. My grandfather was best friends with his father who was also a seasoned musician. He was an amazing self taught talent who would sit in his room in the attic and self taught himself. Drugs ultimately got the best of him and took him down a long dark road that he couldn't escape from which lead to his death.

                [–]dragonitedestroysyou 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                I hate Jaco threads because inevitably someone comes in and comments about how Jaco "really isn't that great" and list off a bunch of other players from the last decade and call Jaco overrated and say it's just hero worship.

                Jaco was amazing. Portrait of Tracy is one of my favorite songs of all time. I'm not saying everyone has to like him, but don't shit on all the people who respect and admire him. He worked hard at what he did and had a lot of skill. Yeah maybe a bit crazy in the head but most musicians are in some way.

                Live and let live. If you don't like jazz or fusion, that's cool. But my dad is the biggest Jaco fan I've ever met so I have the same appreciation. Not everyone is just jumping on a bandwagon saying "yeah he's the best".

                [–]key2 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                definitely agreed. Portrait of Tracy is just brilliant. I'm also a huge fan of Selene by Michael Manring (who studied under Jaco).

                [–]lakelandman 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                no, it is bragging. that's what bragging is.

                [–]JacquePorter 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Yeah if you can't back it up that's just lying. "I had dinner with Nolbek Prize winning chemist George A. Olah last week." Bragging or lying?? You'll never know!

                [–]yuckyucky 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Pastorius was not an asshole, he had a mental illness that caused him to act like a jerk. the bouncer who killed him was not mentally ill, he was an asshole.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaco_Pastorius#Behavior_and_health_problems

                [–]krakow056 3ポイント4ポイント  (47子コメント)

                After sneaking onstage at a Carlos Santana concert on September 11, 1987, and being ejected from the premises, Pastorius made his way to the Midnight Bottle Club in Wilton Manors, Florida.[24] After reportedly kicking in a glass door, having been refused entrance to the club, he was engaged in a violent confrontation with the club bouncer, Luc Havan.

                it wasn't a "savage beating"

                fucker was an asshole

                [–]stgioia 14ポイント15ポイント  (10子コメント)

                According to Bill Milkowski's book (The Extraordinary and Tragic Life of Jaco Pastorius):

                • Jaco’s skull had been fractured; several facial bones were fractured; his right eye was ruptured and dislodged from its socket; and there was massive internal bleeding. The beating was so intense that Jaco’s teeth went through his lips, and Havan’s ring was imprinted on Jaco’s cheek. There was also heavy bleeding from Jaco’s ear, nose, and mouth.

                Asshole or not, it was a senseless and disproportional beating.

                [–]krakow056 -4ポイント-3ポイント  (9子コメント)

                he wouldn't be dead if he wasn't an asshole

                so, in that sense, he was the one responsible too

                yes, it sucks if you get hit by a car on the highway if you are riding a bike against traffic

                but you're still stupid to do it

                [–]stgioia 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                28 years after Jaco's death, he still influences a lot of bassists (Robert Trujillo, Stuart Hamm, Flea, Les Claypool, etc). He innovated a lot and it is for sure one of the best bass players of all time.

                So with all that said, does it really matters that he was an asshole? IMO this is really small in comparision to his legacy.

                [–]karijay 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I agree, it shouldn't matter if a musician was an asshole or a saint - which is why spending time to blame the bouncer who killed Jaco is quite pointless, just as it is pointless to say he was a piece of shit.

                [–]tempforfather [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                To be honest i feel like you listed a bunch of rock bassists that sound nothing like him. I'm sure they all list him as an influence, but lets not pretend any of them where even in the same league as jaco.

                [–]translunar_injection 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

                he wouldn't be dead if he wasn't an asshole

                so, in that sense, he was the one responsible too

                So girls wearing short skirts are equally responsible for their rape? "Wouldn't have happened if you weren't so hot".

                Fucking hell.

                [–]vee_lan_cleef 32ポイント33ポイント  (6子コメント)

                I know absolutely nothing about this particular case but club bouncers have beaten more than a few people to death. Lots of them are professional, but lets face it, it's the sort of job that attracts the type of person that might not know when to stop wailing on somebody.

                [–]mrxscarface 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Depending on the state, this is bullshit. In CA bouncers have no protection from prosecution if they're involved in an assault. You're lucky if your bar/club backs you up without throwing you under the bus if shit goes down. We were allowed to hold back people from fighting, and herd them outside. I also have no innate desire to pummel anyone to death. Bouncing is a job, and I am more physically inclined to do said job than most people. My personality has nothing to do with it.

                Source: Worked as a bouncer for a few years, was fired and almost prosecuted for using a choke hold while defending myself.

                [–]vee_lan_cleef 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                I wasn't saying it's true of all bouncers, like I said many of them are very professional. There have been a few insightful IAMAs on here from bouncers as well, but there's a whole lot of clubs out there and lots of them in pretty seedy areas, you will find plenty of bouncers who aren't as professional as you. In the case of John Pastorius, he died from multiple severe facial fractures. The guy basically smashed his face in.

                [–]mrxscarface 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Oh that's my fault....I misinterpreted what you meant by professional. I thought you meant pro at beating people up. Sorry, it's still early AM where I am...haha.

                [–]PIP_SHORT 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Not know or not care when to stop.

                [–]indorock -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                it's the sort of job that attracts the type of person that might not know when to stop wailing on somebody.

                Soo...kind of like a police officer

                [–]funktonaut 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Doesn't mean he deserved to die. Have a heart, or have you forgotten how?

                [–]thebob8434 24ポイント25ポイント  (0子コメント)

                If he died from it was a "savage beating" It does not matter if he was an asshole you dont beat someone to death over a broken glass door

                [–]Red5BillyBumbler[S] 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

                No sympathy for the mentally ill?

                [–]PIP_SHORT 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                On Reddit? It depends on if the particular mental illness fits into that particular Redditor's worldview. So in general, no.

                [–]I_SHAVDMYBALLS_4THIS 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                it wasn't a "savage beating" fucker was an asshole

                The truth is somewhere in between those two statements. If I recall correctly from his autobiography, it was really just a well/terribly-placed punch to the forehead with enough force to just decimate him. There was even a ring-imprint on his head from the bouncer's hand.

                And yeah, he was an asshole, which probably didn't help him when he actually needed help. You can only burn so many bridges over the years, and when the drugs really made his BPD worse, but I'm sure there just wasn't enough good will left for people to notice/expend.

                [–]299152595 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                You recall incorrectly.

                [Jaco’s] skull had been fractured; several facial bones were fractured; his right eye was ruptured and dislodged from its socket; and there was massive internal bleeding. The beating was so intense that Jaco’s teeth went through his lips, and Havan’s ring was imprinted on Jaco’s cheek. There was also heavy bleeding from Jaco’s ear, nose, and mouth. [I’ll also add that had Jaco lived, he would have permanently lost the use of his right eye and his left arm, according to his doctors].

                That is most definitely fucking murder. The man was a 3rd degree black belt. Pastorius was a scrawny musician. He should have called the cops if Pastorius was being that belligerent. He had no right to beat the man like that, regardless of how much of an asshole he was being.

                This was Havan's statement (an outright fucking lie to cover his ass because he knows he murdered the man):

                In a sworn statement by defendant Havan, Pastorius began to kick the front door of the bottle club. Havan opened the door and Pastorius fled. Havan struck Pastorius with his right hand, causing Pastorius to fall and become unconscious. Havan turned from Pastorius and walked away, leaving him unconscious.

                [–]_fidel_castro_ 47ポイント48ポイント  (19子コメント)

                You are the asshole. Pastorius was pretty crazy and sometimes stupid, but that doesn't equal a death sentence. Bouncer broke several bones in his face and his arm, plus the brain haemorrhage that ultimately killed him. It was a savage beating and you shouldn't condone it. Nobody deservest to die because an bar altercation.

                [–]ThePnusMytier [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                I feel like this guy, and many others in this thread, are ignoring so many other popular musicians who have pulled just as obnoxious bullshit and attributed it to the rockstar lifestyle and are still fuckin respected for it. If someone like Axl Rose got killed by a bouncer (back when G&R was still together and huge), people would get stomped on for saying he deserved it and not giving a shit.

                [–]thisNewFoundLand 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                ...you do realize the bouncer pleaded down to the lesser charge of manslaughter. wow -- reddit is filled with self-derision projected onto any target it can grasp.

                [–]299152595 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Are you fucking kidding me?

                [Jaco’s] skull had been fractured; several facial bones were fractured; his right eye was ruptured and dislodged from its socket; and there was massive internal bleeding. The beating was so intense that Jaco’s teeth went through his lips, and Havan’s ring was imprinted on Jaco’s cheek. There was also heavy bleeding from Jaco’s ear, nose, and mouth. [I’ll also add that had Jaco lived, he would have permanently lost the use of his right eye and his left arm, according to his doctors].

                That is most definitely fucking murder. The man was a 3rd degree black belt. Pastorius was a scrawny musician. He should have called the cops if Pastorius was being that belligerent. He had no right to beat the man like that, regardless of how much of an asshole he was being.

                Edit: This was Havan's statement (an outright fucking lie to cover his ass because he knows he murdered the man):

                In a sworn statement by defendant Havan, Pastorius began to kick the front door of the bottle club. Havan opened the door and Pastorius fled. Havan struck Pastorius with his right hand, causing Pastorius to fall and become unconscious. Havan turned from Pastorius and walked away, leaving him unconscious.

                [–]Robert_Cannelin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                "it ain't braggin' if you can back it up"

                --Jerome Hanna "Dizzy" Dean

                [–]MeetJoeBuck [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Woah, big ups to Norristow

                [–]tempaccountONLY [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                I'm actually pretty sure that's the definition of bragging.

                [–]somuchsublime [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                I think I will play some teen town today.

                [–]Netprincess [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Holy shit I never new that! A fantastic bass player.

                [–]2135052012 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                75% of this thread is why I hate fans

                [–]davidlenbasicperson [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Richard Bona absoluetly nails Jaco's style playing a track Jaco originally recorded with Pat Metheny

                [–]ank1613 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                No one will probably see this but he was a friend of my father and played with my grandfather often in southeastern PA.

                I'm really surprised to see his name on up here.

                I spoke to his father a few times and he still seemed very shook by what happened to Jaco

                [–]bassbastard [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Another of my favorite bassists is releasing a documentary on his life.

                Robert Trujillo is releasing it, and purchased the Bass of Doom, thought to have been lost. http://www.pledgemusic.com/projects/jacothefilm

                Produced in association with Passion Pictures, the film includes some incredible insights from an array of artists (Flea, Joni Mitchell, Sting, Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Geddy Lee, Bootsy Collins, Carlos Santana) as well as Jaco’s family, and friends. It unveils the story of his music, his life, his demise, and ultimately the fragility of great artistic genius.

                [–]Datadog3 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Three of my friends and I found that scum-bag bouncer that beat him........he was working in a dive-bar down in the Keys. We started a bunch of shit with him and got him to follow us outside. We done fucked that punk up.........Damn, I wish they had cell-phone cameras back then.

                [–]nachobueno [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Pastorius had difficulty maintaining the instrument, which he attributed to the humidity of his Florida home, coupled with his additional interest in R&B music. He woke one day to find that his costly upright bass had cracked.

                Is R&B music particularly rough on an upright bass?

                [–]stonefacerunner [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                I studied jazz guitar in college when I lived in Florida. My instructor had me learn "The Chicken" for some funky riffs. I hated it... at first.

                Then one day it clicked.

                My favorite: Cover of Hendrix's Third Stone from the Sun

                My last bassist came remarkably close to Jaco's level (playing around with harmonics, effects, and bends), but alas he has girlfriend and steady (read: real) job now. RIP.

                [–]TechnoEquinoxProgressivePowersurge [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                While the loss of life is tragic especially concerning the way it was lost, he's not the best, or ever was the best, bassist alive. Let's not go confusing facts with opinion.

                [–]Red5BillyBumbler[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                ill offer the reply ive been giving to this again

                he said it, not me - I happen to agree but not saying anyone else has to

                [–]astralcal [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                I did a book report on him in elementary school about 30 years ago. Haven't thought of him since til today. A flashbacker

                [–]michaelchirico 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                just an aside, I feel like the past tense for "succumb" should be "succame," for no reason other than it sounds cooler than "succumbed."

                [–]ArACROPoGErv -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

                You know I almost got into a bar fight with his kids after calling their dad a wanky fucker. Of course I didn't realize that they were his kids at the time...

                [–]stenseng -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

                He was incredibly technically accomplished, but I've always found his tone and style boring, and apparently, he was just an absolute mess of a human being.

                [–]puckerbush -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Charles Mingus, period.

                [–]Vagueblurred -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Mingus.

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