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circlebroke

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177 counterculturalists users here now

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submitted by NorrisOBE
This is starting to get problematic. We've done everything from Mass Auto Tagging /r/europeanattr(title) users to banning day-old accounts.
Still does not solve the problem.
I hear that brigaders are using TOR to continously upvote posts into the front page, leading to many immigration threads to suddenly appear in the front page. I call them "immispam"
This is getting problematic. I really don't want to give up on /r/europeattr(title), and fellow mods also can't do anything about it. I'm now asking you guys what can we do to solve this issue.
all 75 comments
[–]Quanttek 81 points82 points83 points  (3 children)
A few ideas, if you haven't done it yet:
  • Don't allow any accounts younger than a month. That may seem drastically, but I think it could help quite a bit with posts
  • Hide vote buttons, when a user is not subscribed. I think /r/pcmasterraceattr(title) did this for a while
  • Only allow reputable sources, when it comes to controversial issues. YouTube is still allowed for some silly video, but banend, when it comes to refugees, same goes for those propaganda right-wing blogs, tabloids and other non-reputable sources.
  • Add more mods, just make a fast background check (Reddit history, Google, /r/SRSattr(title), /r/circlebrokeattr(title), RES mass tagger), people will always cry, when it's not going in favor of them.
[–]aiesa 15 points16 points17 points  (1 child)
All of these are very good ideas but the vote button one could be easily bypassed. If they care enough that they are using multiple accounts and Tor to evade reddit vote manipulation detection they're going to work around it. They just have to disable custom subreddit CSS.
[–]Quanttek 14 points15 points16 points  (0 children)
they're going to work around it
I partially disagree with this: Of course dedicated trolls/brigaders/racists will circumvent it too, but for not so dedicated trolls it may be the barrier that stops them. And generally it will be an annoyance, that may demotivate trolls.
[–]askinnydude 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Don't allow any accounts younger than a month. That may seem drastically, but I think it could help quite a bit with posts
/r/europeattr(title) is a default. That's where the new traffic is coming from.
[–]Gapwick 103 points104 points105 points  (15 children)
Just hand the entire thing over to SRS. It would be glorious.
[–]Ragnar_OK[M] 56 points57 points58 points  (6 children)
Give it here, CB is literally SRS-lite, I'll clean it up good!
[–]Aethelric 34 points35 points36 points  (4 children)
I don't even know what SRS could or would do to /r/europeattr(title), which is why I want find out very badly.
[–]GayFesh 9 points10 points11 points  (0 children)
There isn't enough popcorn in the world.
[–]snotbowst 3 points4 points5 points  (2 children)
Only current and historical maps of Europe are allowed to be posted.
[–]Dared00 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)
And music by the band Europe.
[–]snotbowst 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
You know...frankly where do they get off on claiming the name Europe? Like they represent all of it. The bastards.
Also, America and Asia...you too. And fuck, America half you're members aren't even American. I don't remember voting for anyone in America. I thought this was America!
[–]HomSig 7 points8 points9 points  (1 child)
This is honestly the best and most convincing idea I've seen thus far.
[–]jippiejee 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
I could actually see this work :) Ask them to prune out all the racists, ban them hard, and only allow aged accounts from there on to post and comment to avoid them immediately returning with alts.
[–]comteethyl 30 points31 points32 points  (2 children)
this is what happens with unchecked and unlimited immigration
/s (so much s)
[–]dv12900 6 points7 points8 points  (1 child)
I vote we send the neonazi's back to their place of birth.
Which is hell, by the way.
[–]comteethyl 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
stop being racist against racists
[–]Ragnar_OK[M] 48 points49 points50 points  (2 children)
This post is against the rules but I'll leave it up in hopes that more people can give good suggestions. /r/europeattr(title) is used to be a cool place, I'd like to see it like that again.
[–]augenwiehimmel 15 points16 points17 points  (0 children)
/r/europeattr(title) is used to be a cool place, I'd like to see it like that again.
Signed. Now it's the best place to face epic shitstorms if you ever dare to use common-ground arguments...
[–]seriously_chill 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
True. It's incredible how different /r/europeattr(title) and /r/europeanattr(title) are. The former is mostly sane, with a few minor, mostly leftist, jerks. The latter is basically Mein Kampf with more circlejerking.
[–]aiesa 14 points15 points16 points  (1 child)
Ask the admins to investigate limiting votes from Tor, open proxies, and VPN users. There are lists of public Tor exit nodes, VPN IP address blocks. Open proxies are identifiable, massive lists are often posted to pastebins, etc.
I'm putting forward another offer to mod there. I'm European and I hate these nationalist scum.
[–]Benthetraveler 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Admins don't give a shit. They could eat at Taco Bell and drink unreasonable amounts of diet coke and coffee afterwards and they still wouldn't give a shit.
[–]twentyone_21 30 points31 points32 points  (2 children)
/r/SRDBrokeattr(title) mods did wonders with /r/punchablefacesattr(title). We can help you.
Real answer: you need more moderators. Also, set up some automoderator keywords to censor certain topics.
[–]Dramatological 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
+1 let us help you, we do gud work.
Also wanted to add, you can set up Automod to report things instead of just remove them, we did this in /r/TheBluePillattr(title) for accounts under 2 days old, accounts under a certain karma (wouldn't work for you). This is a good middle ground to just removing them, cause they show up in the mod queue for easy real-human review.
[–]fb95dd7063 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
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             THIS
[–]ultrapwnd 9 points10 points11 points  (1 child)
Enforce very strict rules.
  • Immediately ban anyone from /r/Europeanattr(title) and only allow a single thread to discuss immigration. Delete all other threads and give a warning to those who submit them. If they do it again, ban them.
  • Don't tolerate xenophobic comments. If anyone writes them, ban them.
  • Get more moderators to enforce these rules.
These may sound harsh, but its necessary to prevent the sub from going to shit.
Also, consider hiring mods from circlebroke or srs. It may sound stupid, but they have experience calling out bullshit, and you aren't going to get any racists on the mod team that way.
[–]WorseThanHipster 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Seconded. And for the obvious hate speech, don't give them a reason or respond in modmail. It'll just give them a reason to take a screen grab and go cry to their buddies and embolden the rest of them.
[–]Ragnar_OK 16 points17 points18 points  (16 children)
Why aren't you using Automoderator? It would make modding /r/europeattr(title) so much easier, you have no idea.
[–]NorrisOBE[S] 11 points12 points13 points  (15 children)
We do have AutoModerator and that still doesn't solve jack shit.
[–]Ragnar_OK 36 points37 points38 points  (7 children)
As to solutions, clear rules and removal reasons, plenty of automod rules. Stamp down on personal attacks, bigotry and hatespeech. "Hire" 10-15 new mods to cull through comments and submissions and make it clear what is acceptable and what isn't.
Ban people for the slightest rule-breaking. If you use toolbox, you can ban 'em right off the comments page. You will never make any progress if you half-ass it, though. What is needed imo is a clear and consistent set of rules that are strictly enforced.
When it comes to politics the crazies usually shout the loudest, and you can't reason with them. You guys are absolutely being overrun, and it super sucks, doubly so because regular sane people are being driven off. The more crazies you have, the more crazies you get.
Just crack down on it, man. Don't give in to people bitching about it, they will bitch regardless.
[–]Anhistronian 18 points19 points20 points  (6 children)
Or, for an even better shit storm, ban talking about immigration. Ban it all. Don't ban politics. Just immigration. Will /r/europeattr(title) be destroyed? Yeah. Will be be glorious? Yes.
[–]Ragnar_OK 15 points16 points17 points  (5 children)
A shitstorm will happen regardless. You remember May May June?
[–]Anhistronian 12 points13 points14 points  (4 children)
That's true. Any attempts to actually moderate are met with a silly amount of resistance for some odd reason. Well, it's not odd for /r/europeattr(title). It's plagued with racists who know that moderation means they can't spread their shit everywhere. But it still confounds me when it happens in other communities. Maybe they're people who just never learned why rules can be a good thing, especially when talking about sensitive subjects?
But I think banning all talking about immigration would turn the majority of the sub against the moderators, not just a vocal minority who want to fill the front page with immigration spam. That's why it'd be fun (read: hellish) to see.
[–]Ragnar_OK 8 points9 points10 points  (3 children)
As to what I think is a swift serious solution
If it were up to me, and I guess it's a good thing it's not, I'd outright ban all meta posts under pain of permaban. If people disagree, they can send modmails, but there's little meta-threads serve in a general-usage sub other than cause drama and incite witch hunts. I'd do away with /r/EuropeMetaattr(title) too or, at the very least, I'd ban people from there who were banned in /r/Europeattr(title) too.
I'd bring the megathread back and set automod to post it once per day and sticky, as well as set up a rule to remove every submission containing the words "migrant", "refugee" or "immigrant". Maybe instruct people to post them as comments in the megathread.
Make the rules more visible in the sidebar and enforce them strictly, as well as add about 2 dozen words and phrases to automod removal rules. Maybe, to show that I'm not completely literally hitler I'd allow the weekends to be more free form. Maybe.
All this would still cause a major shitstorm, no doubt about that.
[–]Anhistronian 4 points5 points6 points  (1 child)
That sounds about right for what needs to be done. The megathread could eventually be eliminated, but that would need to come a while after the crisis had begun to relax in real life. Strict rules would still need to be enforced, but the character of the sub would have hopefully changed by that point.
Are there are good subs for talking about politics, though? Is it even possible?
[–]Ragnar_OK 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Man, I dunno. /r/europeattr(title) used to be it, but nowadays I have no idea.
[–]zbignew 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
ragnar_ok for president
[–]Ragnar_OK 5 points6 points7 points  (4 children)
Also, dammit, why is it taking y'all so long to institute new mods?
[–]NorrisOBE[S] 24 points25 points26 points  (3 children)
Possibly because the last time we fast-tracked mod selection we got ourselves a Balkan nationalist in the modteam.
We have a huge language-barrier and political barrier problem. Remember, this is a sub where users like it when mods encourage multilingualism but when one of our most famous mods speaks French, people get fucking pissed for some fucking reason.
[–]Ragnar_OK 15 points16 points17 points  (0 children)
Well, that sucks, but imo a few more mods would have been super useful in the last week or so.
people get fucking pissed for some fucking reason.
Like I said - people will bitch regardless. Those people add nothing to the conversation and they will complain about anything that doesn't go exactly how they want it to. We get dozens of those per day in /r/tifuattr(title), there is simply no point in trying to argue with them.
Normally I'm all for an open, transparent mod policy, but in the case of /r/europeattr(title) it's really unfeasible at this point. You're being overrun by crazies and if you get bogged down trying to argue with them, you won't get anything done. If you want to save your sub, you have to get rid of them.
[–]likeicareaboutkarma 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Are you still looking for mods? Any link to signup?
[–]augenwiehimmel 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
Mod here. If things are getting out of control, set sub private for a while after having informed the userbase via a stickied post.
Allow approved submitters to post, discuss further actions.
To keep trolls from spamming you with modmails, use Mutefunctionattr(title).
Ban trolls and shitposters.
[–]Extradaemon 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Just ban the word immigrant, refugee and other related words entirely. They're going to whine no matter what you do, might as well go full force and solve the problem at the source. Sure ten of them might migrate away, fuck them the sub is better without them.
[–]dhamster 7 points8 points9 points  (2 children)
Does this "immispam" contain any predictable/commonly used keywords? You can set up Automod to flag potentially bad posts in modmail ("this post contains 'immigrants takin' muh jobs,' please check on it") without removing them automatically. Notifications on posts with a certain number of reports is also a great catch-all way to find bad posts. We had a lot of coontown/etc users trolling in here recently after the mass tagger post and Automod helped us push them out pretty efficiently.
[–]heterosis 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
I'm no expert, but can't you also set it up so certain post require approval based on key words? That would be one step further
[–]dhamster 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
You could have automod remove the post if it triggers the filter, and message the mods to see if it should be manually approved. On CB we have automod report stuff and message us if it has certain keywords, I think we don't actually auto remove anything unless it's something like bad np formatting.
[–]deepSchnitzel 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
This is so ironic - just today I unsubscribed because of the racist posts on r/europeattr(title).
It's cool you also against those new developments.
[–]TheBigCon4800 8 points9 points10 points  (0 children)
give it to srs
it'll be a glorious storm of angry nazis and dilds
[–]Aethe 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
I'm going to be honest, I don't browse europe, but I did take a look at your rules currently. I'll throw out some suggestions:
  1. Consider moving some of the more important rules to the side bar. You have quite a detailed rules wiki, which I think is great, but there should be some sort of quick-reference on the side. Maybe you can tailor these sidebar rules specific to the immigration crisis?
  2. Adopt a zero-tolerance stance on trolling / shitposting. I think at this point everyone knows of your, uh, "brother" sub. If people are going to act like how you've been saying they're acting, they need permanent bans from the sub. There's no point. If they want to act like that, there is a sub for europeans of that mindset.
  3. Audit the comment history of mod applicants? I don't know what the process is like of becoming a mod, because I haven't applied to mod anywhere. I imagine (and I might be wrong) if you set a minimum account age and flipped through a few pages of comment history to simply skim content you could find out pretty fast where someone stands on the sane / rational spectrum, right?
Anyway, I hope some of those help. I'll edit this post with more if anything comes to mind. Good luck with your sub.
[–]likeicareaboutkarma 3 points4 points5 points  (2 children)
Implement approved posters and test them on there knowledge. (E.g. what is an unbiased source? A. Bbc b. Swedenyes.wordpress.com or c. Youtube video)
If you as an user are not approved you can send an message to the mods who will post your post.
Next thing is banning users who talk shit. Talk shit get hit.
Either an megathread or create an second subreddit. (/r/europerefugeesattr(title) for example)
[–]NorrisOBE[S] 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
And that did not work.
[–]Benthetraveler 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
That's that subreddits problem. You shouldn't sacrifice a subreddit just because of brigaders. Anybody wants to "discuss" that topic can fuck off to the other subreddit.
[–]VoteRonaldRayGun 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)
I may be drunk but think I can help.
Just go total overkill on moderation. Add a bunch of new mods and enforce strict and brutal rules. Quality is an absolute and any attempt to variate should be quickly eliminated.
Use /r/scienceattr(title) and /r/askhistoriansattr(title) as examples of high quality moderation regimes which only allow positive speech which adds to conversation.
You won't actually be banning xenophobia but since 99% of racists are arseholes, it will essentially be a ban.
[–]WorseThanHipster 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
since 99% of racists are arseholes
[–]raminus 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
Yeah, as a regular in /r/europeattr(title) myself I've been watching the slow decline for months, but the crisis, the end of the megathreads and the unbannings have basically lost the sub for its regular non-racist users.
I feel like we're at a very critical moment right now. Normal moderate users aren't reading anymore or are actively unsubscribing because of the worthless front page. If actions aren't taken to limit this huge decline, the sub will probably forever be a shadow of its former self, a more pr-friendly /r/europeanattr(title). Hostile takeover, hijacking of the sub's tone and content, etc etc. I'm sick of calling out shit like freaks calling others leftist parasites or Trotskyists which are blatantly upvoted, when in normal times they'd be the laughing stock of the sub. It's ridiculous, and the real community is about to be lost I'm afraid.
[–]optimalg 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Well, I've encountered you quite a few times in /r/europeattr(title) and the metasphere, and I think you are probably the best thing to happen to /r/europeattr(title) in a while. Asskissing aside, though, I do believe that any solution you come up with now is only going to have an effect on the long run. You can't steer a subreddit that large into the right direction directly. My advice would be as follows:
  • -Get more mods, at least 10. This does not only lighten the workload and gets shitposts off the frontpage faster, you also lower the chance of witch hunts against a certain French mod, since he will be less visible and therefore appear to have less of an impact on the front page.
  • -Get some stricter guidelines on posting news about immigration. I've seen a lot of YouTube videos devoid of context, apart from the title OP has given it, obscure editorials, and even blatantly biased sources like Breitbart. Maybe enforce a rule that the source has to be from a large newspaper or press bureau. You don't prevent the Daily Mail from creeping onto the frontpage, but at least it keeps dae-migrants-suck.hu out.
  • -Ban blatant agendaposting. With that I mean submissions from users whose entire account is seemingly based around posting about migrants this, migrants that. They add nothing to your sub. I've considered adding /r/europeattr(title) to the approved list of /r/TodayIGrandstandedattr(title), which may expose how often this is happening.
  • -Maybe consider losing the geodefault status for a while, until things clean up a bit. The geodefault status ensures that most European redditors will see content on that page, which encourages brigading behaviour and soapboxing, and it's also the same reason for why /r/worldnewsattr(title) is shit. It doesn't need to be permanent, and I don't even know if you can remove a geodefault, but it might be a worthwhile experiment if nothing else is helping.
  • -And finally, just encourage the content you want to see. Immispam isn't completely dependent on brigading, it also just guarantees boatloads of legit karma, therefore encouraging more posts about them. Images and the like are often derided as shitposts, but in a subreddit where things can get a bit too serious at times, it can be extremely refreshing. It builds a community outside of the Brown Peril-criers.
[–]Khiva 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
You have to appreciate the irony wherein the leaders of /r/Europeattr(title) suddenly have to deal with an overwhelming influx of undesierables attempting to game the open nature of the system to bring in more of their own kind. Perhaps some kind of fence would mend the situation?
Strained metaphors aside, given my browsing of /r/Europeattr(title), it seems to me that the linked articles are pretty much par for the course in terms of the mainstream opinion. Boosting them might give them an unfair advantage but I don't think they'd have a hard time reaching the front page on their own.
[–]captainflyte 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Tor people might be giving them +10 to get them instantly visible and might be downvoting anything pro immigrant to get them rolling downhill on /new but I sincerely doubt they are getting stuff to the front page alone. Stormfront and otherwise all know the power of manipulating just /new to control what the average user sees getting upvoted.
Iv got some bad news: enough normal users agree with them that you wont be able to get rid of it. Its metastasized. Your users probably just comprise of reactionaries at this point because all the other people started leaving.
[–]HomSig 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
Make a separate subreddit for discussions about immigration, and ban it from /r/europeattr(title).
[–]Kalliollaella 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
I mean isolating the immigration posts to a megathread worked didn't it? I think you should just reinstate them and make it clear that this is how it's going to be until the crisis blows over and it's not going to change. People will bitch and whine but you can now isolate those posts too to the new meta sub right?
But please atleast do something. It used to be a pretty good sub imo but just a few days ago I saw an upvoted post calling for the hanging of leftists. Like wtf I thought the sub used to be fairly leftist in itself not too long ago.
[–]heterosis 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
You might also try asking in the mod subs or in theoryofreddit, good luck.
[–]IIoWoII 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Reddit should ignore TOR votes... It's not that hard to do and many websites do it.
[–]laukaus 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Oh I feel your pain.
Both /r/Finlandattr(title) & /r/Suomiattr(title) (Finnish language-zone default sub) are going through the same, and solutions are either nonexistent , wildly impractical, or alienating for an average user.
[–]DubTeeDub 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
Have you considered making a daily immigration megathread and autoremoving all other posts on the subject?
I also have lots of experience dealing with racist redditors and would be happy to try and help out with modding.
[–]WorseThanHipster 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
During 'The Fattening' /r/amifatattr(title) was brigaded hard by FPHers for a few days. It was getting worse by the hour as we tried to deal with it but a few things made it die down very quickly to a easily manageable trickle. They are short-term solutions, but right now it seems like you guys need breathing room more than anything.
  • Turn the spam filter all the way up, hand approve posts. Toolbox is a must for this; Ask all your mods to get it. Toolbox lets you privately tag users in a way where all other mods can see. Tag the obvious brigaders and over time, decided when to remove posts becomes easier and easier. When those tagged users hit you up in modmail to 'innocently' ask why their posts aren't showing up, don't respond.
  • For OUTRIGHT and obvious hate speech, slurs, advocating violence, saying refugees are all murderers/terrorists/rapists, asking for the return of Hitler 2.0 etc... Perma-ban them without a reason. Also tag them with toolbox, do not respond to them in modmail.
While they are pushing an agenda, they also love to know they've riled up people who they disagree with. Don't give them the satisfaction.
For you guys, Automod-ban URL's that host openly xenophobic/racist content.
[–]seriously_chill 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
I'm now asking you guys what can we do to solve this issue.
But if we give useful feedback and your sub improves, then how are we supposed to smug? I'm so conflicted right now.
[–]askinnydude 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
This is probably due to /r/europeattr(title) being made a default for every user with a European IP address.
Previously, /r/europeattr(title) attracted mostly pro-EU English speakers who were interested in looking at current events through a continental-wide lens - how does a particular policy affect everyone in the union?
Now, with it being a default, Euroskeptics and nationalists are showing up and voicing their opinions. It's no longer a subreddit about Europe but a general purpose subreddit for Europeans, and there are an awful lot of Europeans who are not at all happy about how migrant issue is being handled.
Long story short, /r/europeattr(title) is going to be pretty much the same thing as /r/worldnewsattr(title) due to it being a default. Best of luck, but I don't think you can revert it to the way it was.
[–][deleted]  (1 child)
[deleted]
    [–]NorrisOBE[S] 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
    Read the post.
    We do, but brigades are still happening.
    [–]dadounet91 -1 points0 points1 point  (0 children)
    Thing is, I was a /r/Europeattr(title) poster and voter, and thing has got so bad that I had to leave. It is probably the case of others
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