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MetaA Proposal to Repair /r/Vive (self.Vive)

interestingsex が 投稿

I think it's important to hear/read both sides. The /r/Vive mod /u/500500 made some great points about how he/she believes the sub to be run here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/3lbbkb/what_does_that_mean/cv4sreb

On the flip side, the ousted mods express frustration with how the situation was handled when they chose to add an HTC rep as a mod here: https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/3lb6l8/avoid_rvive/

It seems like both sides made some questionable decisions that understandably caused upset feelings... to which, more questionable decisions and retaliations were made. Just wanted to say I appreciate all of the work that EVERYONE has done with this sub (including the visitors... this community is a shared experience). I have enjoyed visiting daily and know it's not easy work to make posts and moderate like you guys do.

As a Valve/HTC Vive enthusiast I hope we can still get some AMA content going, have a direct line to reps at the company and create a singular healthy channel (much like /r/Oculus) where people can check in and stay up to date. The landscape feels a bit fragmented now... I actually get much of my Vive news through /r/Oculus and I'm happy that it's mostly welcomed there. I'm not sure I have a solution but welcome input from everyone on all sides...

What if /u/500500 offered flair or a tag to /u/JPHTC (a rep from Vive) or made his account "official" in some way that did not involve being a mod. /u/JPHTC/ already said "we would have been happy with that option had it been presented as an alternative" but why does this have to be "too late" we can still go this route if he/she would accept it. There is a lot of "ahh, it's ruined" attitude going on here but that ignores the opportunity to apologize and rethink things. Could we also consider bringing back some of those original mods? Maybe if everyone apologized to each other it would help to refocus on the shared interest in VR and this product. I've had emotional and upset moments myself but it's only too late to repair a relationship or adjust paths when you decide not to try or that your feelings are more important than the community and the topic. Can we "repair" /r/Vive for the sake of the community and members like myself who have enjoyed it so much? I have nothing against the other HTC Vive related Reddit subs but this one seems to be the most active and there is momentum here (likely why HTC reached out) so for the benefit of those who are subbed, who bookmarked it and who already have content that they created and shared here... let's think about some solutions :D

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[–]twynstar 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm a fan of virtual reality in general and have been following the Rift, Vive, Sony VR, OSVR and Cardboard movements across multiple subreddits since Google I/o unveiled the Cardboard last year. I appreciate that /r/Oculus offers details about competitors to the Rift and that /r/Vive had crossover.

All of the prototypes I have had the opportunity to have demo time with work the same way. The quality of the Vive, CV1 Rift and current Morpheus/PlaystationVR prototype as a headset was very comparable to each other at PAX Prime a couple of weeks back.

What makes the products different to me is how they are being marketed to me as a consumer.

Oculus seem to be marketing to push the "social but isolated" product, which makes sense as they are a subsidiary of a giant social network based organization. I felt like I was walking into a Starbucks to try a virtual coffee when I did my Oculus demos.

Sony are pushing the integration with their existing PlayStation product, which also makes sense. I did a competitive deathmatch in RIGS at the Sony booth where they told me more about the features of the console and the controller than the headset.

HTC have a truck that features phones and Re cameras alongside their new product, which happens to be a VR headset. The truck tour when I visited in San Diego didn't have developers who could answer questions, they had a team that had been hired by a marketing team that were there to facilitate a queue of people.

I appreciate what JP does with the Twitter and Facebook feeds. They help folks secure their place in line or know where to go for appointments for the truck tour and help introduce the Vive to the rest of the world through the videos that come after tour stops.

But I appreciated the time I had with SteamVR developers at the Sheraton hotel, where they explained the finer details of why TheBlu is so remarkable as a demo (the boat adjusts to the size of the room) and that there are buttons on the side of the controllers that were never even introduced to me on the Truck.

I think JP was trying to get us engaged with those SteamVR developers and that is a good direction to go. I'd love to read AMAs and have the ability to learn more about the development of this technology. Oculus has Community Management folks in their subreddit. JP could be the first of hopefully a few Vive reps to do the same in this subreddit.

I don't disagree with 500500's actions here. He's the owner of a subreddit and interpreted JP's overtures as against the site rules and they absolutely could have been.

I just want to express that I would love to hear more from the people behind the Vive, as the marketing push already got my attention and I would love to know more about the product than just what a demo and some well edited footage can show me.

[–]jecowa 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

I prefer that the sub is run by the community instead of the company. It would be nice if the company PR person had a flair so that we can easily tell who it is.

On the bright side of all this, if it wasn't for that butthurt drama post in /r/oculus, i wouldn't even know this place existed.

[–]interestingsex[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's awesome... Welcome to /r/Vive, sorry you found out about it this way but we're happy to have you :D

[–]Alexxis_ 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Most of the other subs I go to do this. They place obvious flair stating the company the person is with so there is complete transparency as to who is commenting, user versus PR.

[–]KillerCoati 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Tbh the "There is a lot of "ahh, it's ruined" attitude going on" isn't wholey unjustified. One side showed they can't follow set guidelines and therefore shouldn't be allowed to continue regardless of their intent, and the other showed they can't handle the situation in any sort of professional manner and resorts to childish actions. This sub has lost any credibility now and the only way to repair that is to start afresh with both parties removing themselves from the equation.

I don't see a reason why /u/JPHTC shouldn't be given a tag/flair from this point on. If he's not it'll only prove exactly why the current mods now shouldn't be allowed to operate as such as they're prioritizing personal pride over the development of this community.

[–]bassplayer02 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

for the love of god, FIX THAT BANNER... this is extremely damaging to this sub, vive and vr in general

[–]spacecadet06 3ポイント4ポイント  (26子コメント)

The HTC people should just make their own subreddit /r/officialvive or something then users can decide which one they like more.

[–]typtyphus 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

A corsair employee got a his own personal flair at /r/pcmasterrace
I think the same should be done here, as JPHTC would be an official Rep on Reddit

He could also be a Rep in the pcmasterrace sub once the Vive is released or any other relevant subreddit.

[–]Iustinus 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's multiple Valve employees who have Flair in /r/tf2 and /r/globaloffensive

There is definitely presidence.

[–]ratherunclear 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I like the way Snrub thinks!

[–]JPHTC 17ポイント18ポイント  (22子コメント)

We didn't want to compete with an already existing community. Our goal is to involve the community as much as possible so we can create the best content and experience possible. Our plan was to launch AMAs with developers, ux designers, etc... to get feedback on what you guys wanted to see, what you didn't like, etc...

[–]IAmA_Evil_Dragon_AMA 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

I do think you should at least get a flair, if not anything else. I agree that there's no need for a modding here, but a flair would make it more official and would allow you to do a lot of these things.

[–]Focker_ 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, that's what flair is for...

[–]Revrak 8ポイント9ポイント  (15子コメント)

you should have researched reddit a bit better :(. it's actually hard to believe you didn't know that a flair is more suitable for what you propose. having said that. i look forward to all those things, hopefully with an undivided community.

[–]TheFlyingBastard 0ポイント1ポイント  (14子コメント)

you should have researched reddit a bit better :(

We should've done so too. He was added for the sake of communication, but there were better ways to reach the same goal.

[–]Neotetron 2ポイント3ポイント  (13子コメント)

I'm just now getting caught up on what the hell happened, and after reading most of the threads and the modmail post, it seems like there was no malicious intent anywhere. I've also seen your posts all over the place, and I'm sorry you've been hounded/brigaded as though you were out to destroy the subreddit.

We should've done so too. He was added for the sake of communication, but there were better ways to reach the same goal.

It definitely seems like this was the case; that a few mods got excited about the prospect of having official support, and just jumped on the first available opportunity to make that happen. If that's the case, nobody here could fault you for that enthusiasm. We all are excited about the Vive. =)

[–]TheFlyingBastard 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for the kind words, it's appreciated.

[–]JPHTC -2ポイント-1ポイント  (11子コメント)

There was never any malicious intent. We simply were trying to bridge a gap between the knowledgeable reddit community and content we are creating to get your guys' opinions, critiques, and feedback. We have been talking to the reddit staff internally to create some really cool content and then this happened...

[–]CORROU 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

If you ask me, you shouldn't be allowed to be in this community until you're willing to disclose why you needed to be moderator and exactly what we're the perks you were offering. You're trying to avoid it but it's pretty clear there's more to this than you're willing to disclose.

[–]-null 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don't get why everyone is freaking out so much. He already said he asked to be a mod out of ignorance not malice. What's the point of continuing the anti-corporate circle jerk? Even if it was some malicious evil corporate plot to " make it a social media extension of htc" do you think they would come out and say "yep you got me guys"?

I just don't see the point in continuing to persecute this guy. Are we trying to completely drive HTC out of the sub and miss out on interesting content like AMAs with their employees?

[–]Mhrby 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

My perspective is that ignorance could be an explanation, but if this was truly an action done out of ignorance, then /u/JPHTC and the former moderators should simply go "Oh, we screwed up, we are sorry!" and then accept the consequences.

Instead they are sore and angry about being demoted and causing a scene about this, even one of them calling for people to boycut this subreddit.

That is not the actions of someone who screwed up out of ignorance and who learned their lesson.

/U/JPHTC should make a formal apology to the community and to the former moderators, whom he lead astray and continue to be just as dedicated, if not even more so, to help this community in the appropriate way.

Acting sour about this means that it was not ignorance, but malice, was the original motivation.

[–]-null 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

then /u/JPHTC and the former moderators should simply go "Oh, we screwed up, we are sorry!" and then accept the consequences.

Am I missing something? /u/JPHTC did apologize here. And the ex-mod who made him a mod apologized here.

Instead they are sore and angry about being demoted and causing a scene about this, even one of them calling for people to boycut this subreddit.

Reading through /u/JPHTC's comment history I'm not seeing anything sore or angry. The guy seems to just want to engage with the community.

The only boycotting reaction that I saw was when /u/500500 kicked all the mods and put up that banner without explaining what was going on, so that post was made over in /r/oculus.

If the former mods are acting sour that is one thing, but I don't see how that would at all indicate HTC had bad intentions, just that those mods didn't like losing that power.

[–]flambyisyou 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe because we don't believe in the ignorance explanation?

He understands enough Reddit to ask a Mods position but not enough to know that it's again the moddiquette. Also a simple flair was enough for his said intentions.

[–]mynewaccount5 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's already posted all that information.

[–]IamtheSlothKing 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Video games dude.

[–]Popkins 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

We simply were trying to bridge a gap between the knowledgeable reddit community and content we are creating to get your guys' opinions, critiques, and feedback.

Could you outline what part of this plan you needed moderator powers to execute?

We have been talking to the reddit staff internally to create some really cool content and then this happened...

What content are you creating with reddit staff?

Nothing you say makes any sense whatsoever. Shitty PR.

[–]Neotetron 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

They didn't need mod powers, they just didn't know what flair was or that it was an option. It seems like their PR team really didn't know much about how reddit works, and just went straight to modship as the most obvious way to interact with the community in an official capacity.

And the modmail post shows JPHTC mentioning that they had a content team working on a new banner, and other CSS stuff.

[–]mki401 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

they just didn't know what flair was or that it was an option. It seems like their PR team really didn't know much about how reddit works

Kinda believable....

And the modmail post shows JPHTC mentioning that they had a content team working on a new banner, and other CSS stuff.

Lol well there goes that first point.

[–]notsureiflying 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do you usually approach important community members from other social platforms and offer 'perks' in return for moderation power?

[–]Trashyy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I really hope those things still happen. I think that it is best to keep a division between corporate and user driven moderation. It is great that your company wants to get involved and I think they people shouldn't look at you all as the enemy. It would be foolish for the current mods to not try to accommodate you all on every level below mod. The community wants your content.

With that said a flair would work fine. Realistically being an insider your posts will already get huge visibility. Keeping corporate mods out keeps the sub honest. It protects us from a mod deleting information that might reflect badly on your product. Regardless I am excited and hopeful that you will still be trying to grow this sub WITH the rest of us.

[–]mynewaccount5 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

2 subs could be a good idea if they had markedly different content.

This sub could be the unbiased news sub where I go if I want different news articles about vive and another sub could be the official sub where all the more interactive content such as AMAs, original and exclusive content from you guys. That way if I want more objective info I can go to one and if I want more subjective info I can go there.

[–]locallyunscene 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Normally, I think the "all sides did something wrong" is a set up for false equivalency. Here I think it is an accurate description of events. The subreddit owner should have had better communication with his or her mods before and after the modding of the HTC Rep, and both the mods and HTC should have understood the rules of reddit.

[–]ponieslovekittens 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What if /u/500500 offered flair or a tag to /u/JPHTC

Shrug. That seems reasonable. I suspect that's not what HTC wanted out of the deal. But identifying corporate reps seems like a good idea from both sides of this.

[–]deviantfkr 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I just subscribed to /r/Vive because of all this..

[–]JHoward777 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

So, you're simply trying to bribe the mods here and think that is okay?

As a technology reviewer, I actually thought about buying an HTC brand smartphone because my dad has one and the picture quality is incredible.

But seeing as how you deny that you bribed the mods here, I'm now reconsidering making that purchase as of right now.

If you want customer trust, earn it by not doing these sorts of things. :)

[–]ilikadapie -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

/r/HTC_Vive is moderating out all the drama and focusing on content.