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MetaWhat does that mean? (self.Vive)

thewolf20 が 投稿

Why is there a goomba and this strange notice?: http://imgur.com/Izq0NoK

上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 483
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トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]500500[M] 3096ポイント3097ポイント x3 (343子コメント)

It means that the /r/vive subreddit is not a social media asset of the HTC corporation. It is a subreddit for users of reddit and independent..

It means that /r/vive will reject any attempt by HTC to secure moderation positions and with it the ability to censor and dictate content.

It means that /r/vive mods will NOT TAKE PERKS and will report any entity that tries to offer bribes or compensation for moderator actions.

The role of moderators is just to ensure that the subreddit stays on topic and spam.

It is not to take perks or to take instruction from corporations.

It means that all subreddit business is kept in mod mail

Unfortunately, some of the moderators engaged in improper relationships with HTC and I judged it best to start fresh.

There was also some worry lack of action from the admins

A PM and a reply when I reported it to the admins https://i.imgur.com/rPPjH6I.png

A mod mail dump.
http://i.imgur.com/I7zfNKE.jpg

I can stress that the previous mod team were naive and easily misled . They did not understand the role of moderators.

edit2(jpgs):

[–]m-p-3 1204ポイント1205ポイント  (85子コメント)

Thanks for not adding them as mod.

The /r/Pebble subreddit had Pebble employees as mods and there was some drama about that when some users posted about an unannounced version of the Pebble smartwatch ahead of time, and mod-employees decided to delete those posts to cover up the leak. They were subsequently removed from the moderation team for these actions.

I don't have a problem if they want to participate and engage with the community. I think their account should be flaired as such to distinguish them.

[–]GimpyGeek 153ポイント154ポイント  (7子コメント)

Yep exactly, there's nothing wrong with flairing their people and letting them participate but they shouldn't be using the sub as a primary marketing platform or have full moderation capability unchecked by the community.

I play Star Trek Online, and our sub for STO is a great community that's how it should be. We have mods that play the game, and we have devs that talk to us all the time and are flaired, but none of them are mods, nor do they care about having to moderate it.

[–]headbashkeys 25ポイント26ポイント  (5子コメント)

Even on their own forums sto is very lenient. Compare them to 2k or EA were if you make a negative thread you risk a life ban lol

[–]TrepanationBy45 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

Can you provide examples of the latter? That's wild.

[–]KageStar 16ポイント17ポイント  (2子コメント)

Google some of the Dragon Age 2 stuff, that was pretty bad back in the day.

Edit: I found a link for an example

[–]chiliedogg 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

There wasn't much of anything not bad surrounding Dragon Age 2.

I remember then advertising Dragon Age 3 and mentioning that one of the areas was bigger than all of the Dragon Age 2 maps combined. I remember thinking that that left the very real possibility that it could still be rather small.

And in the end it wasn't.

[–]DJ-Anakin 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well that's what you get when you buy EA games. I haven't bought anything from them since SC4. Fuck em.

[–]TangerineX 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

/r/nzxt mods are pretty chill though

[–]philipwhiuk 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is exactly how /r/runescape handle it too with the (pretty active) CS/dev/random Jagex people that do it.

[–]kubuntud 318ポイント319ポイント  (64子コメント)

Common sense right?

I am sure there are a bunch of super naive kids here as the only reason for HTC to want mod rights is to control the content. There has been so much drama in other subs for stuff like that.

Can't we just have one place that has honesty and freedom from corporate control? Seems we can thanks to a couple of mods with integrity.

I also love how salty some of the removed mods are now their free Vive's have been denied.

This gives me huge confidence in this sub going forward.

[–]GSpess 32ポイント33ポイント  (11子コメント)

I think the gaming subreddits (WoW comes to mind) handle this quite nicely.

They've got a couple of Blizzard GM's who are active posters and who are often referred to and called on but they have no role in moderation of the community. Instead they get some awesome flair and people know who they are.

[–]naughty_ottsel 14ポイント15ポイント  (2子コメント)

Cities Skylines sub is the same, there is a member of the development team that deals with social media, they are a user in the sub and flaired as such, other team members may also join in discussions, negative may be responded to by those users, generally more than a corporate "we are looking into this." They even discuss mods for the game that they think are really good etc. And are part of the community. They use the sub to keep users up to date and help build the hype train, through AMA's, hints etc. They are not mods of the sub, they haven't bribed themselves in, they are normal guys that will take the rough with the smooth and are an active part of the sub

[–]nsmarks 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah! /u/TotalyMoo is totally awesome. His presence in the sub is a huge benefit to the community.

[–]TotalyMoo 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. Thanks for making my morning <3

[–]NinjaGrimlock 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

The Rocket League sub, too.

[–]TROPtastic 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Are you crazy? That's a terrible example and literally the opposite of "not having devs as mods". Look at the modlist and see for yourself

コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

    [–]Brynmorbeer 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Except for the League of Legends sub. They have Riot people in there, which is something I wouldn't agree with.

    [–]lp_phnx327 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Who exactly? Because I seriously doubt that. Yes, the mod has a NDA with Riot, but just so that Riot can inform the mods quickly. in turn they can set up notices to inform the redditors quickly (for example, bugs, server issues, etc.). Some former mods went on to be Rioters, but they are now former. But AFAIK, no current mods are Rioters.

    Edit: Clarity because I really butchered that the first time around

    [–]corylulu 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

    In /r/LeagueOfLegends, no Riot employee can be a moderator. They just get special user flairs.

    [–]Tehevilone 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The modteam also has a ND agreement with Riot.

    [–]KSteeze 86ポイント87ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Hey man, I'm with you. You're defending the integrity of the subreddit.

    [–]relkin43 77ポイント78ポイント  (23子コメント)

    Wow screw the reddit admins; I mean I know they're junk but seriously? Outright bribery of mods and they have no problem with this?

    [–]Ctotheg 42ポイント43ポイント  (18子コメント)

    How many other subs are "infected" with staff from the very product they are discussing I wonder?

    [–]LavenderGumes 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

    I hope GRRM is a mod at /r/asoiaf

    [–]CrystalElyse 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

    There's a common theory that /u/bryndenbfish is secretly GRRM, so, if that silliness turns out to be true he might be.

    [–]LavenderGumes 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    So my blackfish flair means I'm GRRM's favorite?

    [–]ThroneHoldr 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

    We would welcome him with open arms and thousands of pms.

    [–]HBlight 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

    He will read every single one of them... instead of writing.

    [–]MittensRmoney 22ポイント23ポイント  (11子コメント)

    Not staff, but /r/nallen works with Monsanto to promote their posts on /r/science. Totally ruined the subreddit for me.

    [–]sevalius 16ポイント17ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Can you link a source for that claim? I went quite a few pages through his post history and only found him arguing against one sensationalist anti-gmo poster.

    [–]kerovon 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

    A large amount of those claims came out because, as part of the /r/science AMA program, we have been trying to include industry scientists as well as academic scientists. One of the first ones we managed to get, and probably one of the highest profile industry scientist AMAs we did was with Fred Perlak of Monsanto. Nallen, who is the driving force behind our AMA program, spent nearly 18 months convincing him to do the AMA (and Monsanto's lawyers to allow him to do it).

    I can state very straightforward that neither nallen nor any of our other mods have any form of connection with Monsanto. We aren't being paid by Monsanto, or any other company to do anything remotely connected to reddit or PR.

    [–]Squirmin 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Never forget that anti-Monsanto and GMO is an industry itself with all it's own scummy actors.

    コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

      [–]TROPtastic 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Getting drama-spewing fear-mongering people like you out of /r/science can only improve that sub.

      [–]silverside30 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

      I think you meant /u/nallen, and that is disgusting. I guess this is the way Reddit has been heading for a while now. It makes me sad.

      [–]ZeMuffin 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

      /r/leagueoflegends

      [–]Pickerington 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Because it said we will look into it. As in whaawhoooo we have a new income stream. How can me monetize this for us. It went straight to marketing, 100% guarantee.

      [–]prjindigo 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I love bribery... I give nothing back but I'm fine with taking bribes.

      [–]pokeyjones 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      SPOILER ALERT!!!

      this is pretty much how life works now.

      [–]dm18 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      hate to say it :\

      [–]duhhuh 58ポイント59ポイント  (0子コメント)

      ethics win

      management fail

      Seriously, if this is all the communication that took place, there's the failure. Instead, it may turn out that all those flipped tables can never be repaired.

      [–]Intardnation 27ポイント28ポイント  (0子コメント)

      thank you for not shilling out.

      [–]laaars 93ポイント94ポイント  (5子コメント)

      thanks for not selling out reddit

      [–]RedditMan77 26ポイント27ポイント  (4子コメント)

      Here! Here! Reddit's integrity is maintained. I've never seen this kind of integrity in my life. I thought everyone sells out these days. I'm grateful to be taught that isn't true.

      [–]Thoras 36ポイント37ポイント  (0子コメント)

      The mod mail really shed light on this whole situation. Thanks for the clarity. You've got a new subscriber.

      [–]tigrn914 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

      You are a shining piece of gold in the pile of shit that is moderators on this website.

      [–]ixora7 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Awesome to see someone with your integrity. I know it's just the Internet and who cares but fuck it man what you did was pretty damn cool.

      [–]SmorlFox 22ポイント23ポイント  (0子コメント)

      For what its worth, i'm right behind you man. Good job.

      [–]1678745 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Good job dude! You have a new subscriber :)

      [–]Autorotator 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Good lookin' out!

      [–]JoatMasterofNun 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

      As a fellow mod, bravo to you. I commend your actions and dedication to the community.

      [–]codemanj94 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Regardless of what others say, I think you did the right thing. Don't sweat the shit posters.

      [–]GuardianOfTriangles 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

      All they had to do was be active and helpful in the subreddit community, say they were part of Vive team and provide input in multiple posts throughout a long period, and they probably would have been a part of the mod team in the long run...

      At least that's how I imagine it goes for other subreddits with business related mods.

      [–]arhus 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Expect companies to start reserving subreddits for new product launches to prevent something like this. Hope reddit doesn't allow that.

      [–]dm18 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      how could they?

      I mean I could make vivegreatnewproduct. sense they know before us. nothing there to stop them.

      [–]MCXL 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      PGI tried with the game, "Transverse" they literally started the subterfuge for it before announcing the game, to prevent what happened with /r/mwo and /r/outreachhpg

      Reddit ended up banning everyone from pgi.

      [–]Sirisian 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      They do. I've discussed this about a company that did this before and the admins said it's allowed as long as the company marks the subreddit private and doesn't use it.

      [–]Bobz79 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Wow what a fucking hero.

      [–]2flock 22ポイント23ポイント  (9子コメント)

      I support this vision. Can I be a moderator?

      [–]500500 28ポイント29ポイント  (8子コメント)

      ok

      [–]2flock 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Thanks man!

      [–]MRxPifko 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I'll take this time to submit my application as well, please! I support HTC personally, but I want them to succeed on their own merits.

      コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

        [–]bhp5 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Thanks for protecting your sub from arsehole mods.

        [–]L1cketyspl1t 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I respect your integrity.

        [–]Uberwitz 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Read this in Picard's voice as if he had just reclaimed the Enterprise from some novice crew under the direction of Q. So good.

        [–]7even6ix2wo 7ポイント8ポイント  (9子コメント)

        /r/physics has gone to shit since they got rid of /u/fauster and these new moderators are in there

        [–]Fauster 43ポイント44ポイント  (5子コメント)

        Aww, shucks, thanks! But losing control of /r/physics was mostly my fault. I managed to mistype the same long password twice after the heartbleed bug. I had recently graduated with my PhD in theoretical physics, and my reset was tied to my deleted university e-mail account. I was told by the admins that they wouldn't allow me to reset the password, even though a few admins knew who my real-life ID from e-mail correspondence, and I could prove my identity. Of course, they sent me a reset link right after I lost control of /r/physics. I don't think that the admins liked a major subreddit that only censored spam, and the world's most dedicated troll.

        I do like the new /r/physics interface, but it does seem a much less active subreddit than the old days. In my opinion, physicists have done a shit job of communicating the field to outsiders, and that's one of the reasons there's so much woo that invokes physics. Rather than censoring people who said something wrong or unscientific, I felt it was better to let people argue, and that there was no danger that an observer would assume that a heavily downvoted post was correct. And besides, physics isn't about protecting dogma, you're allowed to question the fundamental postulates, whether the standard model is right, etc.. And even if someone says something completely wrong and free of math, there are often valid theories that are in some way related to the concept. But I understand that people in the field were upset at being forced to defend and explain physics to less educated plebs.

        But it's all water under the bridge. It was fun while it lasted, and now I actually have time to work.

        [–]7even6ix2wo 17ポイント18ポイント  (4子コメント)

        Their auto-moderator settings are outrageous concerning what posts and comments they will make invisible. Content has degraded heavily from the debate themed atmosphere in your tenure to the truth-comes-from-authority ethos they have now.

        コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

          [–]iTrollYhu 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I'm not even subscribed here, but I just want to say that you did good.

          [–]CloNe817 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Could this possibly be new stealth way reddit is trying to make money? The corps and reddit know that they cant force you to get into bed with them, but Reddit says "hey, you guys just try this kind of tactic with mods and if you can get them to do your bidding for kickbacks, then you pay us"

          [–]TotesMessenger 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

          If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)

          [–]lefonty 20ポイント21ポイント  (3子コメント)

          I support your decision and while i think your actions were rather blunt and kind of unhelpful your intentions were good. It's very obvious as you stated in the mod mail that HTC offering to help by adding content and being a source of information is great, but that in no way shape or form requires them to have moderator access. Communication is not made easier because a PR manager was made a mod.

          It's clear from the mod mail conversations that what was going on wasn't nefarious or harmful, but thats how these things start. No body in the world wants to be a mouth piece for a cooperation or censor other people, but thats how it starts. You can't excuse small infractions and obvious but "minor" conflicts of interest because it seems harmless in the current time.

          [–]GATSBYH20 23ポイント24ポイント  (2子コメント)

          It's clear from the mod mail conversations that what was going on wasn't nefarious or harmful,

          Interesting, to me, the mod mail conversations seemed pretty nefarious and harmful. This is what nefarious looks like in the real world, people gently being nudged into doing things that undermine their own principles.

          [–]Ulfhednainn 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

          ^ This. 100% this.

          [–]ArcticSpyder 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Don't bother. He's with the HTC team.

          [–]bktechnite 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Thank you for impartiality. Respect.

          [–]twenafeesh 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

          From your first screenshot:

          We are in talks with reddit at a high level to make this community something special.

          The hell? Do you have any more information about this? Are they referring to the reddit admins? Or just to the mod team here? Any additional info would be swell.

          Thanks for being incorruptible.

          [–]TheReverendWillyG 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

          admins. and yes that is the norm. reddit has been a viral marketing website for a long time masquerading as a news aggregator and community that is supported by user generated content.

          [–]Pickup-Styx 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Don't let anyone tell you you're not a modern-day Braveheart

          [–]Binarycold 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          You must never trust a man who will sell his name to the highest bidder. Rather, you must keep only in your company those who cannot be bought, for loyalty earned is genuine, coin will only buy you greed.

          [–]miroku000 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I'm glad you posted this. I feel a bit better that /u/TheFlyingBastard did raise the ethical issues with everyone. As a non-moderator I volunteer to receive any and all perks especially the opportunity to try out a Vive. ;)

          [–]SheCutOffHerToe 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Kudos.

          [–]merrickx 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Wow, look like this post got a lot of support. I think it was just this morning I was in here and you were in the negative haha.

          [–]markevens 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Wow, good on you man.

          [–]rodrigovaz 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Ok, but.. why a goomba?

          [–]d3jake 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          high five

          [–]realister 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Good job! Down with the corrupt moderators!

          [–]PhreakerX 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          R/Bitcoin could learn a thing or two here.

          コメントをもっと表示する (108 返事)

            [–]alien_from_Europa 21ポイント22ポイント  (2子コメント)

            My advice is to have any free shit forwarded to your users. NEVER accept anything yourself. I mean, if HTC wants to give away 50 HMDs for free to your users, that could be a good thing. Just know that you could never accept one yourself.

            ..even a threesome with beautiful women. You'd have to pass that on to your users as well. Be a wingmod and help a subscriber out, dammit!

            [–]-null 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Yeah, /r/mma learned this lesson the hard way as well. Anything with any financial value has to be passed on to the users just because of the possibility of appearing shady.

            コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

              [–]dethlyhallow 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

              TIL r/HTC mods were as corruptable and careless as r/howtogainbenefitswhilevolunteeringforanethicalpositionatamassiveonlinesocialnetworkingsitethatbestfuctionswithoutselloutbitches

              Oh, and the removal of moderator powers is being met with the response similar to a big boned child dropping it's ice cream cone.

              I hope the next group of mods uphold their own ethical values (you'd think, atleast personal values would have prevented this as well, but whatever, pathetic) and a fair understanding of reddit rules and TERMS OF USE!!!

              [–]ItsSeanP 21ポイント22ポイント  (1子コメント)

              https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/3lb6l8/avoid_rvive/

              [–]BOLL7708 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Yup, strange things are afoot.

              [–]Sexy_Offender 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

              How do people, the HTC team and the mods, not know that you can't have a corporate presence on a mod team and still be perceived as legit? This seems so basic, so elementary....it's just hard to imagine that HTC approached the mods and they accepted.

              [–]You_Are_All_Smart 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Great stuff. I'm with you 100%.

              [–]vizionvr 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Okay, shit's broken. Can we talk about fixing it? Is the mod willing to associate a tag to an HTC rep's name? The rep seems willing to accept that offer in exchange to make this an official channel for news and answers.

              [–]Prince_ofRavens 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Way to go 500500, make sure everyone at HTC knows whose got the biggest dick.

              [–]JPHTC 43ポイント44ポイント  (129子コメント)

              Hello Vive sub. We want to apologize for any confusion and set the record straight. We approached the moderation team about helping out with this sub in order to make it a hub for up and coming Vive information. This meant AMAs with our team, developers, and industry insiders. We also planned to create reddit exclusive content for you, our most knowledgeable supporters. Our hopes were to drive traffic here from other sites because you as a community, our are most important and valuable friends. You have the unique ability to share both your passion and critiques of what we are trying to accomplish in a constructive manner. By pushing traffic here from our social handles and calling it our official subreddit, we were attempting to let the broader public know, this is where they could have a deeper conversation with your community.

              The moderation team allowed me to be a moderator, of which I never changed anything or had plans to. Our team simply wanted a public figure on the forum in case you had a deep question and wanted to find me easily to ask. We were hoping to give the moderation team perks for growing this community and had hopes of working with them to test our system themselves so they could be among the most informed.

              This new sub in question looks to be from the moderation team 500500 banned as moderators before having a conversation with me. We have nothing to do with it and did not ask that to happen. I had reached out to him a couple of times in the past week in hopes of working with him and the rest of the team. He did not respond and was absent from reddit for a few days. The rest of the team made a judgment call and allowed me to join the moderation team. Again, our only hopes were to create unique content for this reddit community and thank the moderation team for spreading the good word.

              We apologize for any confusion this may have caused and would gladly answer any questions regarding the situation. This was never a “corporate take over” situation and we wish 500500 would have had a conversation with us about our intentions prior to this decision. We still want to be a part of this sub and create amazing exclusive and informative content for your community.

              EDIT:

              We want to let the community decide what they want our involvement to be from this time moving forward. At this point we understand moderation rights were not the best option and flair would have been a better alternative. To add clarity around the ‘perks’ mentioned, we wanted to offer mods invitations to local events to try the Vive in person in order to better understand how it works, updates on when major events were occurring, and the ability to offer feedback on what type of content could help the community grow.

              We’d like to work with our partners to plan future AMA’s and other reddit community initiatives. We have always welcomed criticism, as much as praise, because it is the driving force that allows us to offer a better product to you, the community. Please let us know if and how you would like us involved moving forward.

              We truly value your feedback and would love to stay engaged with you on reddit. If you would like us to stay involved, we’ll keep a close eye on the types of AMAs and media content that you think would best help the community flourish."

              [–]annerajb 89ポイント90ポイント  (15子コメント)

              This can be done with just simply a tag associated to your name. That only the mods can give you.

              [–]Alexxis_ 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I love how they play ignorant as if none of them have ever used Reddit or didn't have the capability to learn. At the very least it was willful ignorance but the "perks" paint a very ugly picture.

              [–]Acurus_Cow 53ポイント54ポイント  (7子コメント)

              If you want to help grow the subreddit. I'm sure you can get a flair as verified HTC-representative. Don't see why you should need any more than that.

              I'm glad /u/500500 took the steps he did. Only way I can be sure I get honest information here. And not censored information designed to make you guys look good. If I want that, I can go to your web page.

              [–]solraun 25ポイント26ポイント  (7子コメント)

              You still dont seem to be able to understand that the by offering perks to the mod team (i suppose a free vive) undermines the community by putting the mods in htc s pockets. To be honest, I know that you realize it, its why you are doing it. But to publicly state the very fact that you were planning on doing that... astonishing.

              [–]Unacceptable_Lemons 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

              It's not unusual though to provide review units to prominent members of any community. By perks, they may also men invites to events where the team could have reviewed units (which obviously HTC would hope would help drive sales, assuming they're positive).

              [–]HumanistGeek 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

              It totally makes sense to do so from HTC's perspective. However, it jeopardizes neutrality, which concerns /u/500500 and /u/TheFlyingBastard.

              [–]solraun 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

              But a Moderator is not per se a prominent Member of the community. And actually shouldn't be.

              [–]linknewtab 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

              They might not be prominent, but they invest a lot of time behind the scenes to make the community work.

              コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                [–]johnnychic 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Don't need be a mod to do any of that.

                [–]Orphan_Babies 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

                As someone who works in marketing for a publicly traded corporation, let me break part of this down....

                Hello Vive sub. We want to apologize for any confusion and set the record straight.

                We got caught and we were advised by our execs to apologize first.

                We approached the moderation team about helping out with this sub in order to make it a hub for up and coming Vive information. This meant AMAs with our team, developers, and industry insiders. We also planned to create reddit exclusive content for you, our most knowledgeable supporters. Our hopes were to drive traffic here from other sites because you as a community, our are most important and valuable friends. You have the unique ability to share both your passion and critiques of what we are trying to accomplish in a constructive manner.

                This is us tweaking your nipples. You like it?

                By pushing traffic here from our social handles and calling it our official subreddit, we were attempting to let the broader public know, this is where they could have a deeper conversation with your community.

                Keywords: "our official subreddit". So if this went as planned we would of had contracts signed (Including non-disclosures of course) and had the mods sign away ownership.

                The moderation team allowed me to be a moderator, of which I never changed anything or had plans to....

                Because the contracts were not signed yet.

                Ok. Look it here. If you wanted to provide some form of testing perks or do an AMA, you wouldn't need to be a moderator. And if contracts were not going to be signed then why attempt to call it the "official" subreddit, yet alone provide branded content? (which tend only to be used with written permission)

                [–]catchavirus 41ポイント42ポイント  (4子コメント)

                What kind of "great Vibe perks" were you going to offer the "preexisting modteam"?

                [–]JosephND 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

                We approached the moderation team about helping out with this sub in order to make it a hub for up and coming Vive information.

                Reddit has succeeded at making itself a hub of information independent of direct corporate influence.

                This meant AMAs with our team, developers, and industry insiders.

                All of those things can still be coordinated without your direct corporate moderation.

                We also planned to create reddit exclusive content for you, our most knowledgeable supporters.

                Again, this can be coordinated without your direct corporate moderation. Don't hold that as hostage to this sub's users.

                Our hopes were to drive traffic here from other sites because you as a community, our are most important and valuable friends.

                The community isn't your friend. The community is a group of users of Reddit.com, a third-party website that doesn't need your direct moderation to achieve web traffic. The community is full of consumers, not your friends, and you can drop the pedantic act suggesting otherwise.

                You have the unique ability to share both your passion and critiques of what we are trying to accomplish in a constructive manner. By pushing traffic here from our social handles and calling it our official subreddit, we were attempting to let the broader public know, this is where they could have a deeper conversation with your community.

                Again, the Internet already knows where conversation happens. You can still mention reddit on your social handles, God knows everyone else does when it comes to AMAs. Still, this doesn't require direct corporate moderation. EDIT: there is also no such thing as an "official subreddit." If you want to host your own community, create your own moderated forum. If you want to interact with this community, buy a promoted ad.

                We were hoping to give the moderation team perks for growing this community and had hopes of working with them to test our system themselves so they could be among the most informed.

                This is where I'll stop, because it shows how little you know about Reddit at large. This story feels like some limp corporate attempt at /r/FellowKids, and honestly the sub and surrounding community are better off staying independent from your direct corporate direction and influence. Do whatever you want, but it looks like this sub has made a decision to not capitulate.

                [–]drummer_San 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                if i had gold to give, yours would be the first post I've gilded in my two-ish years on reddit. You tore their shallow, fake-as-american-cheese post to SHREDS in ways I can only wish I was smart enough to match.

                [–]JosephND 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                It's all good, Gold is overrated but the sentiment is appreciated. Besides: http://i.imgur.com/gYZ8xxi.jpg

                I just dislike corporate takeovers of subs. Reddit isn't a marketing tool, it's a community that fosters sharing and discussion. It disgusts me to see companies not understand that but still try to "Hur dur viral marketing HuR free impressionz" when it comes to this website.

                [–]throwawaybaha 22ポイント23ポイント  (0子コメント)

                You knew what you were doing. The post was well written and politically correct, but it is obvious you knew what you were doing, it's what you were trained and paid to do. Drama aside, this says something about the HTC company itself. Not very good PR.

                [–]Xyyz 40ポイント41ポイント  (27子コメント)

                We also planned to create reddit exclusive content for you, our most knowledgeable supporters.

                What does this mean? Why would we want our content to be exclusive?

                Our team simply wanted a public figure on the forum in case you had a deep question and wanted to find me easily to ask.

                You can just be given a flair and have your name added to the side bar without being a moderator, by the way.

                We were hoping to give the moderation team perks for growing this community and had hopes of working with them to test our system themselves so they could be among the most informed.

                I don't know if this is normal in the industry, but I'm really hoping it isn't. This is not OK.

                [–]JPHTC 7ポイント8ポイント  (19子コメント)

                By exclusive, we mean it is hosted on reddit. AMAs on reddit are exclusive in the fact that someone would come to reddit to see it.

                In regards to testing the system, it made sense that the moderation team could test the platform at one of our events so they could be the most informed and knowledgeable about how it works. That was our only intention.

                [–]Xyyz 30ポイント31ポイント  (16子コメント)

                Moderators are not content creators, though. There's no reason a moderator should get preferential treatment over any random potential reviewer, unless you are trying to influence them.

                [–]Gustfaint 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

                While they aren't normally content creators they are influencers within this subreddit I would imagine.

                [–]Xyyz 11ポイント12ポイント  (7子コメント)

                They can influence, but overall their role is just to remove spam and maintain an environment for discussion according to some vision. Why do the moderator need hands-on experience with a Vive to perform that role?

                [–]Gustfaint 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

                Right that's their roll but when they post something it's something users of the subreddit will take notice of more than a regular user.

                Enabling a moderator to have an exclusive experience would allow for moderators to have more of an understanding than most of the world (ideally) and be able to relay that information to the subreddit. Whether the info would be objective or not is obviously in the air. HTC obviously can't give everyone here a hands-on experience, so you target the ones who are most influential with the group.

                In an ideal world this is beneficial for both parties - HTC gets exposure while building a relationship with the community and this sub gets "exclusive" peaks at the product sooner than other communities.

                The issue occurs due to the possibility of a review/experience being subjective due to the relationship made. That's more of a trust issue between someone reading a moderator's potential experience.

                Also as a side note relating to HTC being a mod themselves - there's no need. My optimistic side believes they just don't know that they don't need to be one (I work in media with a focus on social - clients can be surprisingly unaware of how different platforms work, even big companies). I believe the HTC rep mentioned they would have been fine having just flair for being a rep.

                [–]TheFlyingBastard 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

                Enabling a moderator to have an exclusive experience would allow for moderators to have more of an understanding than most of the world (ideally) and be able to relay that information to the subreddit. Whether the info would be objective or not is obviously in the air. HTC obviously can't give everyone here a hands-on experience, so you target the ones who are most influential with the group.

                Sorry, but I couldn't possible use my moderator position for that. I get what you're saying, but I wasn't that influential in the first place.

                I'm here because I love gadgets and I want to help HTC and the users touch base. I'm not that knowledgeable about VR and I'm sure there are dozens of people whose opinions weigh much more than mine since they know what to look for.

                [–]truevox 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                I can't speak for you personally, but from the subreddit's I've seen, much of the time (not always, of course :D), the mods are pretty into what even the subject de jour is. They may not be THE MOST into it, but they're usually pretty well versed. There's obviously exceptions (I'm apparently responding to one right now ;D)

                Not trying to take a stand on the greater issue here, mind you (from what I can tell, both parties seem at fault (though I suspect both sides honestly did have the best of intentions) - one for apparently being incommunicative and heavy handed, the other(s?) for potentially violating reddiquette by placing a corperate representitive of a product in a moderator position in a subreddit of that product (which likely isn't that uncommon)). Which, I guess, is just a long winded way to say that I'm just my adding own anecdotes in response to yours. :)

                With all THAT said, it would be nice if reddit would would add some sort of "Official Rep" position that would automatically be listed nearby/along with Mods, along with a visual callout in their names. Nothing with any more power than any other registered user, mind you, just an informational callout. I realize that this can be done today via flairs and sidebar editing, but making it a bit more turnkey would be valuable, I think. I'm personally of the opinion that even on unofficial forums (like most of reddit), direct ties to a directly relevant company can be a VERY valuable thing for users. That is, assuming that there's a chinese wall between company reps and the actual content moderation :D (though I'm not personally offended in corperate art asset assistance, for example, as long as final creative control remains with the community moderators, nor other things that wouldn't be seen as a conflict-of-interest).

                [–]Gustfaint 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Haha I wasn't implying you would, sorry. Should have been clearer.

                I'm speaking in more general terms when it comes to brands reaching out to people in social media. Apologies.

                [–]Xyyz 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                If a moderator makes a regular post and uses his status to bring more attention to it, I would consider that an abuse of the position. Moderators can choose whether their tag appears with any given post. Without the tag, I doubt many people would even know when a post is from a moderator. I personally rarely look at names and I certainly don't keep track of moderator lists for the various subreddits I visit.

                The moment all of a moderator's posts start actually standing out because of their name on the sidebar alone, I would suggest them to use a different account for posting, because that is not a good thing, and you shouldn't try to use that.

                [–]Gustfaint 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                It's different per sub. I'm not super familiar with this sub but there are ones where everyone who's a regular knows the mod or some similar situation. In those situations it doesn't matter if he tags it or not - people will notice it more. Hope that makes sense what I'm trying to get at x_x and I suppose it wouldn't apply to this sub.

                [–]JPHTC -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Again, our intention was not to change the role of this sub. We value the criticism as much as the compliments found here as it allows us to create a better product and experience for you guys. Had more of a conversation taken place before this reaction, we could have explained that to 500500.

                [–]johnnychic 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

                You can do AMA without being a mod.

                コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

                  [–]ggabriele3 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  exclusive

                  This is a fundamental disconnect between corporations and customers.

                  Gamers don't like exclusive content. It doesn't make us feel good, it doesn't motivate purchases, and nobody wants that to be the reason why we read news here or somewhere else.

                  Exclusive news, exclusive content, exclusive hats, exclusive games, exclusive pre-order content, exclusive apps...all that is last-generation 360/PS3 marketing garbage.

                  If you have news to post, post it here, and people will upvote it. Cross-post it to other subreddits and it will be upvoted there as well.

                  [–]jpop23mn 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Why didn't you say anything about the great perks? Avoiding that tidbit?

                  [–]JPHTC -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  "You can just be given a flair and have your name added to the side bar without being a moderator, by the way."

                  This is true and had 500500 and his team offered that, we would have happily agreed.

                  [–]BeefyTaco 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Then why in gods name would you ever ask for mod powers to begin with? What could that possibly do to help this community other than for you to have some control over the discussions? Also, why would you go so far as to offer "perks" if all you really wanted to do was be closer to the community..?

                  Your not doing a very good job cleaning the "blood" off your hands right now ahaha

                  [–]Kuratagi 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  I've seen that discussion in the leaked mod's mails discussion but one of them preferred to add you to the mod team without proper answer. That's not understandable.

                  コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

                    [–]milligna 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Your PR emails were super greasy and you came out of this with egg on your face. Talking about perks and having mod privileges? On reddit? You'll get fuckin' crucified. My advice is to learn from this mistake and don't let it happen again.

                    [–]jlink5 3ポイント4ポイント  (20子コメント)

                    So I'm not going to comment on the HTC mod thing... There are plenty of others doing that.

                    However in response to if and how we would like HTC to participate and contribute to this sub, as a Vive dev I do have some thoughts:

                    • Use this sub mainly for discussion of Vive topics. That might be obvious, but what I don't think you guys should use it for is promotion, early reveals, or that sort of thing. Reddit is best for group discussions so I would love to see HTC engage the community on things like what kind of apps you see working really well, getting feedback on peripheral ideas, talking about how the hell people are going to set this up in their homes, or talking about prices for apps given a relatively small user base.

                    • Fill us in on all your corporate research and give us a view into your direction so we can leverage all the effort and resources you're pouring in. Give us an opportunity to share with you what we are seeing at the ground level so to speak.

                    • Share innovative content you're seeing developed

                    • Access to or AMA's with technical experts would be great

                    • Share opportunities to demo the Vive, or post calls for devs to submit their demos

                    These are the main ones off I can think of, but in general HTC should be giving a line out for info and opportunities that devs or the general public don't have access to because of lack of resources or positioning. Conversely, HTC should provide a line in from devs and the general public to give direction and help shape the platform since we are passionate, invested, exposed, and because there are many more of us than there are of you.

                    [–]BillClintonsBrother[🍰] 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    Your actions, /u/JPHTC, have really turned me off to the HTC community. It sounds like you are trying to claim ignorance to how Reddit operates. Even if that is true, which I have my doubts about, it makes me question how the rest of HTC operates.

                    [–]JaJH 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Agreed, I'm reading this thread from my HTC phone, and I'm not so convinced I want another one now...

                    [–]rexlibris 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Hey buddy, fuck you.

                    In the past I have pimped the hell out of your products for YEARS, I used to sell them via Verizon and honestly at the time they were the best damn android phone out there. I haven't worked there in ages but still sing the praises of HTC.

                    Never, fucking, again.

                    "calling it our official subreddit"

                    "moderation team perks"

                    NO, NO, NO. WRONG, SIT DOWN AND SHUT THE FUCK UP. There is so much wrong with that statement.

                    You don't understand how reddit works do you? I really REALLY hope the knuckleheads in your PR department (and this includes you) who thought this was a good idea get fired.

                    [–]linknewtab 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    We’d like to work with our partners to plan future AMA’s and other reddit community initiatives.

                    Will they really be able to answer questions and provide new information? So far every HTC representative on reddit was only allowed to repeat already known knowledge.

                    [–]darkstar1031 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    see, the thing is, you just tried to use this subreddit as your cost-free advertising platform. It might not have been you specifically, but I would be willing to bet that at some level of leadership in your company the goal was to install a member of their marketing team as a moderator. This would allow the company to have limited control of the content on the sub. This new found muscle would not be flexed at first, and once changes began they would be subtle at first. The company in question was looking to build an "official subreddit" because the truth is your marketing department needs the traffic here. Were you planning on making major changes to the sub, probably not. It's far more likely that you were looking for free advertising space, and what better place than an online community already dedicated to your products. You also planned to incentivize current standing mods by offering them free product, and you already had a cover story in place that you were going to use them to "test" your product. By offering "perks" whether monetary or material, you assume limited control over the rest of the mod team, and would likely expect them to look the other way when you posted advertisements. This is fundamentally against what I (an average user) has come to expect from Reddit as a whole, and I am glad that /u/500500 has taken the action that he did.

                    [–]Ragingmoomoo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Nice PR reponse.

                    You keep mentioning that you want to help this community, yet have offered nothing except bribes. Nothing you have mention requires mod privileges. Stop lying.

                    [–]imnotwatchingthis 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    This is corporate bullshit suck a fat one

                    コメントをもっと表示する (9 返事)

                      [–]2EyeGuy 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      Want goombas on your Vive?

                      Dolphin VR now theoretically has Vive support. Can people help me test it?

                      https://forums.oculus.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=11241&start=1240#p295993

                      [–]thewolf20[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Is this possible? Vive doesnt support async timewarp.

                      [–]Kuratagi 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      It seems that is a kind of coup d'état in htc vive. Some admins admitted a HTC employee as a part of the admin team (I can't see any information about that so it pretended to be hidden).

                      HTC then took this sub as his "official" sub: https://twitter.com/htcvive/status/643115158210920448

                      Main admin removed them as admins and now they are trying to make another sub saying this one is not valid anymore:

                      https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/3lb6l8/avoid_rvive/

                      Frankly I don't like this move.

                      [–]TweetsInCommentsBot 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      @htcvive

                      2015-09-13 17:32 UTC

                      For more in depth #HTCVive converstations check out the official Vive subreddit https://www.np.reddit.com/r/Vive/

                      [Attached pic] [Imgur rehost]

                      This message was created by a bot

                      [Contact creator][Source code]

                      [–]TheFlyingBastard 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Small correction since you got a few things backwards.

                      • HTC approached us with the offer of helping us out growing the subreddit. We enthusiastically accepted some stuff they had made for us (a top banner) and they promised certain perks if we would continue to work together (we took this as perks for the subreddit as that had been the subject of conversation).

                      • HTC then took the sub as their "official" sub and suggested to have a HTC liaison on the team.

                      • We had been waiting a few days for the main mod to return, but since he had disappeared in the middle of such an opportunity, someone took initiative: Apparently "for ease of communications" the HTC guy was added as a moderator. (In hindsight, that was the part that should not have happened in my opinion.)

                      • Top mod came back, got pissed off, and now thinks we were all getting bribed or something.

                      [–]gravedagger 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

                      Ummm is it too late to ask? ELI5: what is a Vive?

                      [–]thewolf20[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

                      A better Oculus Rift. grabs popcorn

                      [–]gravedagger 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

                      Oooooohhhhhh, do you have some to share? I'll watch with you!!

                      [–]thewolf20[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      Is salty popcorn ok?

                      [–]gravedagger 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      I prefer cheese but sure why not. Saltyness is the theme here currently

                      [–]thewolf20[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Here, have some popcorn with tears flavour. :D

                      [–]krabstarr 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      But why the goomba?

                      [–]jhillkwaj 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Sweet two Tuesday Jr Esa

                      [–]wwwhistler 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      forever tainted.

                      [–]AtlasFumes 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      You just got a new subscriber. You are a god among mods!

                      [–]Jashiiin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      This is what they wanted I had to actually go look up what the fuck this is. Its advertising and by you doing this is only advertising it more!

                      コメントをもっと表示する (15 返事)