125
126

I take back everything I said about South Park the other day. (self.circlebroke)

jamie_byron_dean が 投稿

South Park on Caitlyn Jenner, PC Culture, Tom Brady

Apparently the wanna-be writer's take was more accurate than many of us here realized, or admitted.

As an european, who the fuck is Caitlyn Jenner. +92

A terrible attention-whore +334

Who happened to kill a person that nobody seems to talk about +338

Btw did you guys know that MLK jr. committed adultery or something? #neverforget

Anyway, if you really want to hear the whole story...

Bruce Jenner was an Olympic Athlete in the US of some reknown years ago. He was associated/married into the Kardashian family. Bruce Jenner recently transitioned to Caitlyn Jenner this includes a full on sex change. When it occurred Caitlyn Janner was very open about her transition, what was happening, and that it was all "ok". This resulted in Caitlyn Jenner being heralded as a "Hero" for transgender people, LGBT athletes, and in general praised with high regard by society. It was to the point you couldn't say anything negative or even "not possitive" about Bruce Jenners athletic career or Caitlyn Jenner as she is today. Let alone things like saying "he", still calling Caitlyn Bruce, etc. A fair amount of people has basically come to the opinion that Caitlyn Jenner is nobody special and while they respect her transition/lifestyle (or atleast accept it) they do not think she is a hero or has done anything worthy of the amount of praise she has received. A lot of this criticism comes from the ESPN award, Jenner had not been in athletics for years. Yet as soon as the transition happened ESPN was jumping on that hype wagon giving her the award. Notable people passed up would be Noah Galloway a multiple amputee from the Iraq war who went on to do all sorts of things including dancing with the stars and becoming a rather solid performing distance runner. Or Lauren Hill a girl with cancer who eventually died from it but was able to play College Basketball even with full on lethal cancer. The argument also basically goes on to say that what Caitlyn did wasn't that brave because she had "ass loads" of money and fame to use to keep from being completely isolated and to actually get whatever procedures she wanted done. That even if the world turned against her afterwards she still had a bank full of money to go "well fuck you guys I'm still living my life my way". That the truly courageous people were the ones who had nothing, that worked and saved for years to pay for transition procedures, that risked literally everything to try to be "themselves". This is the basic point of the episode showing the side that literally worships Caitlyn Jenner, and the otherside that while not really bigoted is just like "so what" and how thats not even really considered PC anymore.

you...you're awesome.

This here is what we call a circlejerk, boys, and ain't no two ways about it - it's a big ass circle.

Here, have a laugh, on them:

As an european, what the fuck is PC-culture?

Reddit

You havin' a laugh yet?

It's funny because this is how reddit sees the world.

How about now?

The episode was disappointing. The moment PC principal was introduced, I thought, "Cartman is going to annihilate him." But in the end, everything just fizzled.

Go Cartman go Cartman you're the man, if you can't do it, Walter White or some other antagonist figure you're not actually supposed to identify with can!

I remember when people said Caitlyn Jenner was a hero,....man those people are fucked up to think that. It's like coming out gay and getting an award for it..really

Guys come on.

This was like watching an episode of South Park if the writers were from /r/tumblrinaction. I love it. +13

I take it alllll back.

全 170 件のコメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]Jubguy3 28ポイント29ポイント  (1子コメント)

The reason that I don't like saying I don't like Caitlyn Jenner is because people think that it's ok to start up a transphobic discussion about genitals and "ugly fat feminist are taking away my right." which is really conflicting because Caitlyn Jenner isn't the icon that the LGBT community needs and is kind of an asshole tbh. But at the same time Reddits reaction of "we are so funny for destroying PC culture! penis person with boobs!" is really just kind of nauseating.

I think I'm just going to go to bed.

[–]FuckThatKarmaCulture 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

People seem to have trouble separating individual aspects of individuals, and they absorb a concept they don't like to judge another characteristic.

So CJ is a low hanging fruit for that demographic, which is basically reddit. Which basically sucks.

[–]IBYMBYBMYL 54ポイント55ポイント  (12子コメント)

I knew the second I saw PC Principal, reddit was gonna eat this shit up. This is what redditors think the world will be like/already is. I really hope the writers of South Park are just leading them on. Then they'll just misinterpret it anyway, so it doesn't even matter.

[–]WilWheatonsScrote 37ポイント38ポイント  (11子コメント)

I mean the writers have already outed themselves as transphobic lolbertarians.

[–]Hispanic_Gorilla_AMA 2ポイント3ポイント  (10子コメント)

Wait, are Trey and Matt really transphobic?

[–]Cerus- 22ポイント23ポイント  (9子コメント)

Have you seen the dolphin episode?

[–]TempleOwl17 14ポイント15ポイント  (4子コメント)

That's not fair, as many people have pointed out before they've done two more episodes on the Trans community trying to fix that problematic episode. They've grown since then.

[–]s460 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

They've grown since then.

Did you see the latest episode?

[–]woeskies 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

No clearly people can never change their opinions or grow as people. Remember when Hillary said that she was against gay marriage? #neverforget #feelthebern

[–]Ikkinn 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

You mean two years ago? Yeah, I remember.

[–]woeskies 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you are referring to the dolphin episode that was literally over 10 years ago

[–]Hispanic_Gorilla_AMA 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ohhh. I remember now. They possibly might be.

[–]woeskies [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That was literally over 10 years old though, and they have made episodes in the meantime that demonstrate a big change in opinion. I mean ffs pretty much everybody was transphobic a decade ago

[–]woeskies [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You mean the one over 10 years old during the meantime they have changed their opinion and made episodes to reflect that?

[–]RYCBAR 163ポイント164ポイント  (31子コメント)

The episode was disappointing. The moment PC principal was introduced, I thought, "Cartman is going to annihilate him." But in the end, everything just fizzled.

Having not seen this particular episode, but having seen enough episodes to say this: IF YOU ARE EVER CHEERING FOR CARTMAN, YOU ARE WRONG AND AN ASSHOLE

[–]caesar_primus 34ポイント35ポイント  (8子コメント)

I didn't watch it either, but someone in cb2 said Kyle talks about how much pc culture sucks so they did get the right theme from the episode.

[–]Extradaemon 5ポイント6ポイント  (7子コメント)

I thought Kyle was the generally progressive character in the show?

[–]Hazlzz 30ポイント31ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think Kyle and Stan are generally the author mouthpieces, but Stone and Parker aren't particularly progressive people. They're very moderate, think the far left is equally wrong as the far right, and like to ridicule "PC culture". They're not bigots in the overt sense, but they have a very reddity understanding of social justice.

That's my understanding of them, anyway. I used to watch a ton of South Park back when I was pretty euphoric.

[–]latestvictim 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

They're not bigots in the overt sense, but they have a very reddity understanding of social justice.

This is my view of them as well. Also, the whole "everything's a target to us; nothing's sacred" attitude seems like a really safe way to play things, and I think much of their success is a result of it. In the end, it's a silly cartoon that has adeptly handled some societal issues, and clumsily fumbled others. Only a 12-year old would think that Parker's and Stone's political views have any larger significance. Christ, just watch Team America and then decide what value to place on THEIR celebrity perspectives.

[–]bigDean636 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

They're just old. It's the same as Seinfeld or Chris Rock. They're just old and they can't relate to some of the progressive movements younger people are pushing. They want things to stay the same. I think Sarah Silverman said it best when she said (paraphrasing), "I used to be like, 'I don't mean gay as in homosexual, I mean gay as in... gay! I have lots of gay friends, it's not bad!' and then I realized, 'My god, I've become that 50 year old guy that says colored'."

The world is changing and lots of 40+ year olds don't like it. Most people aren't exceptionally open-minded and progressive even into their late adulthood. Whenever I see comedians complaining about "PC culture", I just hear my grandma referring to her barber as "Colored Jimmy".

As far as redditors... they're just young sheltered white suburban kids desperately clinging to what their parents taught them about the world.

[–]BritishHobo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That Sarah Silverman article made me so happy. Seinfeld's big blow against 'PC' culture was an interview where he grumbled about people criticising him doing a camp, limp hand movement to imitate a gay man. It was just fucking sad to watch.

[–]altrocks 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

Arguable. Kyle and Stan are the main characters to identify with. Both play the moral role in the show, but they sometimes trade off with one or the other playing devil's advocate.

At least that's how I remember it. The show has been downhill for years.

[–]Extradaemon 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

I guess it's more of a "personality suits the plot" kind of deal haha.

[–]altrocks 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Stan is also much more of a pessimist to Kyle's optimist. That's about the only real cute difference between them.

[–]siddysid 29ポイント30ポイント  (2子コメント)

Highjacking top comment to address this comment that one of the posters made:

A lot of this criticism comes from the ESPN award, Jenner had not been in athletics for years. Yet as soon as the transition happened ESPN was jumping on that hype wagon giving her the award. Notable people passed up would be Noah Galloway a multiple amputee from the Iraq war who went on to do all sorts of things including dancing with the stars and becoming a rather solid performing distance runner. Or Lauren Hill a girl with cancer who eventually died from it but was able to play College Basketball even with full on lethal cancer.

A basic google search reveals this to be untrue.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2015/06/02/no-caitlyn-jenner-was-not-picked-ahead-of-noah-galloway-for-the-espy-award-for-courage/

I thought redditors were good at fact-checking sources. Huh. Guess not.

[–]BroadCityChessClub 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

Bonus lack of fact-checking:

It's like coming out gay and getting an award for it..really

Exactly that thing happened, LAST YEAR. That's what the Arthur Ashe award is about.

[–]acedis 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh so it's just like always when a person in some sort of marginalized group gets recognition for being open about their hardships. A baseless story about how someone else walked over bigger mountains and got jack for it is made, everyone eats up the story without stopping to second-guess it, and bam! It's not about her transition, it's about the hype machine discriminating against people who really deserved it.

... You know, when you deconstruct it like that, it's still kinda blatant transphobia even if the story held true. But god do people need to veil it.

[–]Kyoraki 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not always. Remember the hippy festival ep?

[–]GorbiJones 87ポイント88ポイント  (32子コメント)

I saw the episode yesterday. I just... man, I just couldn't stand it. Just watching all of these stupid bits about social justice and knowing with absolute certainty that Reddit would eat them all up and ask for seconds. The moment they introduced "PC Principal" a hearty sigh escaped me. I hesitate to say that South Park has "declined in quality" (more than that, I think I just don't really have the right frame of mind to enjoy it anymore), but if there was ever an episode that, to me, felt like full-on, no-holds-barred pandering, this was it. I just can't bring myself to want to watch it anymore.

[–]camelCaseCondition 27ポイント28ポイント  (18子コメント)

This episode evoked nothing but images of the giant, oversized, evil, totalitarian, horrible, awful, feminazi straw man of Ellen Pao that Reddit built a while back. Seriously, I felt like I was listening to a depiction dreamed up by /r/KiA.

But you're right, I probably could have taken it with some sort of irony if I didn't know Reddit would be all fucking over it at straight-up face value.

[–]Draber-Bien 7ポイント8ポイント  (17子コメント)

I thought it was pretty funny. Not anywhere near South Parks best, but it definitely did get a couple of laughs out of me. To me it just shows insecurity, if you can't take a couple of jabs at your "movement". And to me there was just as many jokes at the expense of the anti pc crowd. The whole speech the pc principal held at the beginning seemed to me, to be an honest realization that maybe South Park needs to straighten up a bit, and that maybe there has been too many jokes at the expense of minorities comparatively to white middle class america. And it's definitely an attack on people who keeps using South Park as an excuse to tell crude jokes. I mean basically the entire episode ends on; This shit isn't funny, cut it out

[–]camelCaseCondition 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yeah, I'd say that's a pretty fair assessment, and I'm certainly not bitching about South Parking tearing up a "movement" by any means! I think my perception of the episode was colored by my thinking "wow, this is going to be posted on /r/videos tomorrow and the top comment is going to be attack-helicopter.txt"

[–]Draber-Bien 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fair enough. I definitely got the same vibe. But I think they could have been way more pandering than they ended up being.

[–]dv12900 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

What would you think about the episode if you stopped worrying about what Reddit would say? I don't mean to be rude but it seems so inconsequential to ruin your own fun because some Internet nerds will take it the wrong way.

[–]woeskies 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Exactly, circlebroke is way too obsessed with being the opposite of Reddit on social justice issues its pretty unhealthy at times

[–]dv12900 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think it's the reason people call cb smug. Sometimes people on here pretend that disagreeing with reddit mainstream makes you look smart, while it actually isn't. Not wanting to vote for Bernie Sanders because of his circlejerk status for example. Like anything, basing your opinion on reddit trends is stupid.

[–]woeskies 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The general rule that if you are only doing something be use its the opposite of what somebody you dislike is doing applies here pretty well. Does not mean you are always wrong, but the opposite of it not meaning you are always right applies too

[–]NefariousBanana 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

Except the principal character is clearly meant to be mocked, and the message at the end is that joking at the expense of minorities is a-okay because it "starts a dialogue." I'm not sure which episode you were watching.

[–]FaFaRog 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

the message at the end is that joking at the expense of minorities is a-okay because it "starts a dialogue."

That had to at least be partly tongue in cheek because Cartman follows that up with "What's wrong, Kyle? You have your cake. Eat it...too."

[–]Draber-Bien 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Show me a character in South Park that isn't suppose to be mocked. And did you really take the "it starts dialogue" at face value? come on bro. It was like yesterday Circlebroke made fun of reddit because they thought the "niiice" joke was suppose to seriously say it's nice when older women have sex with underage boys.

Btw the ending I was talking about was the part where Cartman is doing his Cartman thing, and attack the PC crowd with tacos, pregnant mexican women, and Syreian reguees. Kyles then steps in and say; "Enough, everyone stop! This is so wrong, I can't let it continue this is not ever what I intended. I just want to say, Caitlyn Jenner is a hero".

[–]woeskies 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Exactly I came here to see the reaction of circlebroke because I had a feeling that it was going to counter jerk so hard that it will end up looking like a fool. And I was not exactly wrong

[–]Draber-Bien 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I watched the episode because I saw this thread. When I was done seeing it I wasn't surprised CB got all angry. But whatcha gonna do, we are all Redditors after all.

[–]woeskies 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not surprised either but I'm still disappointed

[–]bigDean636 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

It was funny, just not particularly sophisticated. The best comedy is both. The best satire, really, shows an understanding of a position before it makes fun of it. South Park thinks it was making fun of progressives, but it was really just making fun of... I don't know, a fictional boogeyman.

[–]woeskies 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

A fictional boogeyman? You realize they exaggerate the extremity on this show right, and there are people like that just way less extreme

[–]bigDean636 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

In this extreme exaggeration, they strip out the important part.

[–]woeskies 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Welcome to South Park. enjoy your stay. Whether you like it or not this is classic South Park and criticisms for its use in this specific instance is idiotic. In general few free but in this case it's really stupid to do. And even so they managed to bring some nuance in not saying that their ideas are wrong just their implementation. Jesus I don't even agree with this episode but God is CB got its head up its ass here with the counter jerk. Guess what, the equal and opposite circle jerk does not make you 100% eight, it only makes you right to the extent the other is wrong, and while far from perfect, it's not 100% wrong either.

[–]bigDean636 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Guess what, the equal and opposite circle jerk does not make you 100% eight, it only makes you right to the extent the other is wrong, and while far from perfect, it's not 100% wrong either.

But it does make us 100% smug.

[–]jWalkerFTW 44ポイント45ポイント  (7子コメント)

South Park used to be Peanuts for adults. Now every single episode is just trying to be some edgy, ultra-relevant political statement.

Not saying I really miss the Jakovasaurs, but still.

[–]Nikhilvoid 24ポイント25ポイント  (6子コメント)

It still has some good ones, like how micropayments in mobile games are all about the Canadian Devil being a dick. But those episodes are becoming rarer.

[–]Eggmont 22ポイント23ポイント  (1子コメント)

I chalk it up to laziness, why bother being brilliant when you can just pander to morons and have just as much success with a fraction the effort

[–]Momojo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

They have a week to make an episode. I don't think you can call them lazy.

[–]GorbiJones 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yeah, there are a few interesting moments of clarity, like "The Cissy" from last season. For the most part the show has just become a deluge of edginess.

[–]Possible_Novelty 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah I miss the good old days when they had a counter for how many times someone said shit in an episode or when they tried to get the entire world to shit their pants. No edginess in those episodes at all.

[–]GorbiJones 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

At least that kind of stuff is all in good fun, though. But you're right that pushing the envelope has always been one of the show's main points. Like I said, I'm just not really in a frame of mind anymore where I think it's funny or enjoyable.

[–]Possible_Novelty 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's still in good fun. You know why? Because it's a cartoon. The reason this episode bothers you is because it's poking fun at something you care about and not someone else.

[–]chewy_pewp_bar 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can't stand anything post season... 12 I think? Like, there's some not good, and flat out bad episodes in those 12, but from "sexual healing" onward I've rarely even smiled at it. It seems to me like they stopped tossing pop-culture references into episodes, and instead built all their episodes around pop-culture. Which is pretty fucking lazy.

[–]FrozenDuraznos 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was done after that stupid hate crime bit a few years ago.

[–]s460 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

It doesn't even make sense. Are they saying that people who often advocate for social justice are...young, straight white men? Have I completely lost touch, or is that particular demographic the one which is constantly raging against "PC culture?"

Also, to say nothing of the fact that people who value political correctness don't usually go around yelling at people and being aggressive, they treated every single issue of "political correctness" as if the "SJWs" see them all on the same footing. Misgendering a trans person is not on the same footing as using the term "spokesman" on a person who is, in fact, a man. The latter issue is stupid, the former is actually legitimate, but they made it out like it was just totally stupid for anyone to complain about either one.

[–]woeskies 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The point is supposed to be that the pc types tend to be privileged, and often end up leaving minorities out. They chose a frat for a group think element and a becoming the thing you hate element.plus would you rather have them use the tumblrina stereotype? It's not exactly easy to do without pulling a lazy stereotype. I mean it's not the greatest episode ever it is a bit obvious

[–]Celestina_ 99ポイント100ポイント  (4子コメント)

As a European - what's the best way I can feign ignorance about a social justice issue and consequently frame social justice as an isolated American invention?

[–]KnightoftheLolTree 46ポイント47ポイント  (3子コメント)

It would it be faster to type Caitlyn Jenner into the Google search bar and click the Wikipedia page than writing, submitting, and waiting for a response to this comment, but then where am I going to get that feeling of smug satisfaction from?

[–]somethingtodonow 29ポイント30ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wikipedia is run by the liberal ess jay dub yoos, though. It's all a scam by the fundie shills to keep frozen peaches oppressed. Clearly the only reliable, nonbiased source is reddit dot com

[–]chewy_pewp_bar 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Le r/Wikipediainaction

One of my favorite kia spinoffs. Sadly, it never gained much traction.

[–]heterosis 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

but then where am I going to get that feeling of smug satisfaction from?

circlebroke?

[–]LesterPearsonsProjct 40ポイント41ポイント  (0子コメント)

what the fuck is PC-culture?

I can't find any proof but I swear this was the name of a personal computer magazine in the early 90s.

[–]veganello 119ポイント120ポイント  (17子コメント)

As an european, who the fuck is Caitlyn Jenner

What? Has the steamship carrying the newsreels about the Kardashians not made it to Rotterdam yet? I do hope it hasn't run into an iceburg or been torpedoed by u-boats.

[–]ogg33 62ポイント63ポイント  (5子コメント)

This is why Zeppelins are the future

[–]still_futile 35ポイント36ポイント  (4子コメント)

THIS WHOLE THING'S A BOMB! JESUS; WANT TO BLOW US ALL TO SHIT SHERLOCK?!?

[–]Fortehlulz33 19ポイント20ポイント  (2子コメント)

dae archer reference

maybe i'll reference another popular show reddit likes

maybe rick and morty

maybe community

who knows what other show popular in the 18-24 white male demo i'll reference next!

[–]PM_ME_UR_GOLD_PLATES 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wubalubadubdub in the morning!

I got your back.

[–]DoogieHueserMD 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The funny thing is that both your comments are almost equally circlejerk-y. Even funnier is that this comment in itself is a third separate circlejerk.

[–]ChickenInASuit 60ポイント61ポイント  (9子コメント)

You see, we Europeans are above such trivial things as the lives of the Kardashians.

Now, let me get back to watching videos of the bearded drag queen who won Eurovision last year, that shit never gets old.

[–]LIATG 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah yes, don't forget to defer to her for your questions about trans people while you're at it!

[–]Half_A_Person 9ポイント10ポイント  (7子コメント)

No one is saying that, they just don't get much press coverage over here that's all. Sorry for interrupting the circlejerk.

[–]Animated_12 16ポイント17ポイント  (2子コメント)

Here in the UK, we got quite a bit about actually.

[–]altrocks 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

You mean America 2: Monarchy Bugaloo?

[–]GrinningManiac 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nah, we're America One: The Puritans

You guys are America Two: Puritan Harder

[–]ChickenInASuit 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

My issue is with the context, of course there are people here who don't know about the Kardashians, but the way the question is worded and the situation it's being asked in reeks of "Silly Americans" to me.

[–]Half_A_Person -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think you're projecting the meaning you want to see onto it.

[–]dv12900 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah exactly. I've heard of Caitlyn Jenner before, but this is the first time I hear that she is associated with the Kardashians. Heck, I still don't know what the Kardashians are about, I only know they're famous and that Kim is married to Kanye West.

[–]Hazlzz 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Jenner was married to Kim's mom.

What they're about is their dad was OJ Simpson's lawyer, then Kim made a sex tape with Ray J and the entire family went all in to make a profit off of that slice of fame.

If you wanted a tl;dr of the situation

[–]WilWheatonsScrote 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's so hard to get good tinned ham with the damn Wehrmacht out there causing a ruckus.

[–]theaxolotlgod 38ポイント39ポイント  (11子コメント)

God, this fucking episode. My boyfriend loves South Park so we watched it together and within one minute I turned to him and said "I won't like this episode". I was right. All the "overly PC" characters' lines were for the most part totally reasonable, but with actions taken to ridiculous extremes. It was like reddit wrote the goddamn episode.

[–]exNihlio 41ポイント42ポイント  (6子コメント)

It is telling that the typical way to attack "PC culture" is to show extreme exaggerations and blatantly inaccurate caricatures.

[–]Cerus- 23ポイント24ポイント  (4子コメント)

Which is exactly what people do to demonize trans people.

[–]exNihlio 32ポイント33ポイント  (3子コメント)

See the attack helicopter meme.

It is the worst kind of slippery slope argument because there is no connection between events or coherent ideology. Just, "If we respect trans-people and stop misgendering them, then we will have people choosing to be refrigerators!"

These are the same arguments made against same-sex marriage and any other equal rights movements. "Same-sex marriage may seem fine now, but imagine what happens ten years from now people are marrying their dogs!"

[–]Leprecon 18ポイント19ポイント  (1子コメント)

But you don't get it, if you accidentally respect a person and their choices you might ... the world could ...

Nope, drawing a blank here. There is literally no downside to respecting someone else's bodily decisions.

[–]chewy_pewp_bar 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

White men might not hold all the power if everyone is equal! Don't you understand!? Has the past all of history not been a clear enough demonstration to you of the capable hands the world rests in (until the mid 2030's when we pass the point of no return on climate change)?

[–]bfjkasds 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a slippery slope, but it also shows how ill-informed and biased they are. They're more willing to trust a probably fake tumblr post that was screencapped and jpeg'd to hell and back vs. actually looking at what trans individuals or the medical community say. And they're more willing to believe that "SJWs LITERALLY want otherkin to be a government-protected class" than actually look at peer-reviewed evidence, or hell, having the courage to ask:

http://np.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/search?q=otherkin&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all

[–]Cyril_Clunge 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The people who despise PC culture say that it's policing language and thought.

But then if you're offended by anything they will call you an idiot and then police your language and thought, just as they claim to hate.

[–]ChickenInASuit 38ポイント39ポイント  (0子コメント)

I saw the video, saw the comments, then came right here to vent about it because it pissed me off so much. Glad to see someone beat me to it.

There is so much anecdotal evidence, pseudoscience and general pigheadedness in those comments I can hardly stand it.

It basically all boils down to "I have no understanding of this topic, and instead of trying to understand I'm just going to rant about how stupid I think it is, and justify my point by quoting a bunch of convenient anecdotal evidence that I heard from somebody else."

[–]Joff_Mengum 30ポイント31ポイント  (3子コメント)

I get the feeling that a lot of them missed the main point of PC House in that episode. The joke is clearly the absurdity of a stereotypical hyper-masculine frat house based around PC sensibilities rather than the usual horrendous behaviour but they seem to interpret it as just an extremely heavy handed parody of "SJWs".

[–]Guessed 33ポイント34ポイント  (2子コメント)

a hyper-pc frat house full of white dudes is funny in itself, yeah, but the takeaway message some people are getting is "all SJWs are white dudes propelled by white/male/cis guilt!!" and .... i'm not sure if that's the message matt and trey were going for, but it's not like they made any particularly clear points.

[–]BZenMojo 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

Stereotypical frat houses that tend to get in the news are full of racist, sexist white dudes. Often in black face. Having them do the opposite seems like a juxtaposition, like the "All apologies to Jesse Jackson" episode with the hicks in a pickup chasing after Michael Richards and all the white men celebrating their civil rights achievement to defend themselves against being called racist.

[–]soullessredhead 27ポイント28ポイント  (0子コメント)

but it's not like they made any particularly clear points.

Pretty much every South Park ever. It's either that or golden mean bullshit.

[–]Nikhilvoid 26ポイント27ポイント  (13子コメント)

Using fratboys to portray SJWs was such a copout. Is there any real world evidence for SJWs being mostly fratboy bullies?

No, if they used women and POCs as SJWs, South Park would be revealed for how conservative it has become. Just like Seinfeld, they're saying:

"DAE college campuses have become really SJW and conservative?"

Plus, this way they don't have to write parts for minorities. I cannot recall a single line a woman or a POC got that advanced the plot. They released a fucking swarm of Syrian refugees at one point. So, some onscreen time. Yay.

South Park is conservative as fuck now, and the people who think it's good social commentary also think Trump makes some good points.

[–]IntrepidEmu 16ポイント17ポイント  (6子コメント)

Don't lump in Chris Rock, reddit took an interview quote out of context and didn't bother reading the rest of the interview where he spent most of the time talking about things that would make the average redditer call you an SJW if you said it.

[–]Nikhilvoid 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

Fair enough. I just read his lengthy interview, and it seems less edgelordy than what Seinfeld is talking about. Maybe he wants to talk about race and can't?

Anyway, I found this gem from Cleese while looking for the interview:

Make jokes about Swedes and Germans and French and English and Canadians and Americans, why can’t we make jokes about Mexicans? Is it because they are so feeble that they can’t look after themselves? It’s very very condescending there.

[–]VoteRonaldRayGun 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

I see jokes about Mexicans all the time, sometimes in good faith sometimes not, that quote is just bizarre.

[–]chewy_pewp_bar 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Old people racism. Like every time gramps says oriental. Or improperly emphasises the syllables in "Japanese". Whaddya gonna do?

[–]Noccor -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Please explain in what way? All he's saying is everyone has the right to be made fun of.

[–]FaFaRog 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It has to do with which groups are marginalized and which are not. Jokes targetted at Mexicans work to further marginalize the group while jokes about Swedes, Germans, English etc. are always lighthearted and leave no lasting impact.

The heart of it really comes back to white supremacy and how it permeates our culture. As an Indian dude, I have no issue with someone cracking jokes if they've shown some respect to Indian people and some aspects of Indian culture. But if it's a person that goes off out of nowhere, I'm obviously going to make some assumptions about them.

Basically, you should have to be able to humanize people if you want to joke about them.

[–]TempleOwl17 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Cleese said that on Bill Maher's show and bill at that shit up.

[–]camelCaseCondition 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

Using fratboys to portray SJWs was such a copout

But really, lets take two almost completely disjoint groups that Reddit both hates and mash them together with no justification for double the hate

[–]snorri 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's a good point. It was so weird because the only thing that unites those two groups is college...

[–]WilWheatonsScrote 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's always been this way. Parker/Stone are your stereotypical edgelord redditor.

[–]Joff_Mengum 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Maybe I'm just giving the creators the benefit of the doubt here but I think that the combination of a frat house and PC culture is supposed to be the joke in itself. I mean can you think of two things more far removed from each other? The bits I found myself laughing at were when the bros were high giving over PC points rather than rape jokes or the usual bullshit.

I mean the fact that the episode ends without PC house getting "put in their place" or whatever implies that it's more complicated than Matt and Trey thinking that political correctness is bad.

That's just my takeaway though.

[–]FaFaRog 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm not sure how familiar people here are with South Park but I found this episode to be really unusual. Like you alluded to, I think in any previous episode/season the plot would have revolved around Cartman utterly destroying the soul of PC Principal and yet it never even remotely came close to that.

Also, like you said, the obvious joke is that frat houses are known for being racist and sexist so the idea of a PC frathouse is hilarious. It really is not more complicated than that. For all the complaining about how redditors misunderstand/misinterpret South Park here, there sure seems to be a lot of that going on in this thread..

[–]akong_supern00b 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Last couple seasons have included some level of continuity and/or recurring storylines. I wonder if they'll do that with this season and have it deal with the whole PC issue.

[–]redditaccount01423 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hasn't South Park been half-baked libertarian trash for a long time?

They lost me with the episode where they said a trans person seeking to have SRS was the same as someone getting plastic surgery to look like a dolphin, right? A point that the dumb and woefully underinformed still bring up when expressing their transphobia?

[–]thechapattack 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

I really don't get the transphobia thing. Does it really affect your life that much to not be an asshole and call someone by a different pronoun?

It's like not like every time someone calls Sean Combs P-Diddy these assholes chime in "Actually his name is Sean Combs and I'm just going to call him what's on his birth certificate"

[–]Batmarde 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think it's because people don't think gender dysphoria isn't a real thing. It's just silly people doing it for attention. They don't wanna use the other pronoun because it'd be admitting the "attention whore" won.

[–]HumanSleepingbag 18ポイント19ポイント  (17子コメント)

The thing I don't get about this anti-PC culture pushback is where does it come from? Why is being PC a bad thing? Why is treating others with respect and dignity and not being racist, homophobic, transphobic, misogynistic and basically any other negativity considered a bad thing by these types of people?

I don't understand it. I don't understand how being nice to someone is considered a bad thing. Do these reactionaries not see if we treat others with respect we can advance further than actively oppressing people? And it's not like it's just an American problem, it's obviously world wide. Why is there so much hate in the world?

Why does there have to be a line drawn in the sand on every single issue? It it because they're mostly kids who can't comprehend these types of events? Is it because they were raised without being taught empathy and sympathy? Is it because they're too stubborn to change?

It just makes me sad. I wish we could move past such trivial differences like this.

[–]TempusThales 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

Empathy. Edgy teens don't understand why they should have empathy for another person.

[–]SyndicateSamantharoo 16ポイント17ポイント  (2子コメント)

CB gives way too much credit to the 'edgy teen' strawman. Edgy teenagers didn't give Mitt Rommey 47% of the vote, nor did edgy teens make it so gay marriage wasn't fully legalized in the US until 2015. The truth is, there are a lot of people in the U.S. (and the world) who agree with infamous reddit circle jerks.

I'm not going to venture who's in the right, but just consider the fact that 47% of Americans believe in creationism. You'll never again be confused by massive amounts of people supporting something you think is very wrong.

[–]Batmarde 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Isnt there a big proportion who'll just vote for the republican party regardless of who's their leader? Like they could pretty much have anyone and they'd still get 30+% of the vote

[–]akong_supern00b [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I agree. While it's kinda silly and not nearly as wide in scope as national politics, I've been downvoted a bunch and gotten into arguments for defending PC-ness even on forums that supposedly have "feminist" inclinations. My impression is that the "SJW boogeyman" or "PC culture" has become so vague that it's difficult for people to agree on what that even means, but just that it's bad and has implications of censorship/control. People hate feeling like they're being told what to say and how to act.

[–]win7-myidea 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Are we being brigaded or something? It seems like there are more downvotes thn usual in this thread.

[–]Possible_Novelty 13ポイント14ポイント  (10子コメント)

It comes from how it's implemented. People get really upset at being dog piled on just because their statement didn't exactly fit into their audience's comfort zone. So many people perceive people to be racist/transphobic/whatever when that wasn't their intent at all. It's kind of like how when I read your paragraph that you laid out I can't help but think you're coming off as smug and holier than thou when you asked "why cant the world be PC and nice like me?". I'm positive that's not your intent, but it's still how it came across. It would be wrong of me to call you ignorant or unaware based on that judgment of you though, so I don't try to police what you said and tell you that you should change the way you organize your thoughts online.

[–]HumanSleepingbag 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

I guess I should have just summed it up as "why can't we be nice to each other".

[–]Possible_Novelty -2ポイント-1ポイント  (7子コメント)

And some people would say that people are being nice to each other in how they intend something. The problem arises when people take offense to something that may not have been intended.

[–]jigielnik 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think it was Louis CK who said, and I'm paraphrasing,

you don't get to decide if something you said was hurtful to someone.

Basically, it doesn't matter if these anti-PC people didn't mean it. It's not about them...

People think that because it wasn't their intent to insult someone, they deserve a free pass if they do by accident... but that's kinda like crashing into someone in your car then claiming you don't have to pay the damages because you hadn't intended to crash.

[–]Possible_Novelty 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Louis CK is a comedian, not our universal moral guide. All I'm trying to say is that it's possible to be cordial and still have someone take offense. That is totally okay if someone feels they were slighted by someone. What isn't okay is to police and harass people who don't fit others' sensitivities.

[–]jigielnik 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Louis CK is a comedian, not our universal moral guide.

I never said he was a moral guide... it's not about who said it, i was just giving credit... its about what was said and his point makes perfect sense regardless of who said it.

All I'm trying to say is that it's possible to be cordial and still have someone take offense.

It is possible for someone who was TRYING to be cordial to offend someone, but once you offend someone it's not actually cordial even if it was your intent. Again, the car crash analogy. Almost no one intends to crash their car, but your intent isn't as important as the damage you caused to an unrelated, innocent third party.

What isn't okay is to police and harass people who don't fit others' sensitivities.

Why is that not okay, exactly? You say harass people who don't fit others sensibility but that is especially ironic because one of the primary issues people here are trying to tackle is harassment. What you perceive as a joke others feel as harassment... why is it okay for them to feel harassed just so you can have your 'edgy joak'?

[–]Possible_Novelty [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The car crash doesn't even work here. In the event of a crash there are tangible objects that need to be fixed before your car can run properly. If no offense is taken, even when it's meant, then people can still function without any effect on them.

What you described isn't harassment. Harassment is directed specifically for a certain person, not just a joke someone overheard in an audience.

[–]SammDogg619 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

And some people would say that people are being nice to each other in how they intend something.

Intent is magic. So what I broke your arm, I didn't Intend to do it, so stop whining!

The problem arises when people take offense to something that may not have been intended.

Person A: Wow, that thing you said is kinda messed up. Can you maybe....

Person B: ZOMG FUCKING SJW FAGGOT GO BACK TO TUMBLR YOU FUCKING TRIGGERED-KIN NIGGER!

Person C: Wow, way to overreact person A. You should calm down and try to be more reasonable.

[–]woeskies 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because intent is not like 90% of the length of a sentence or anything. The issue comes from when third parties get involved and get offended on other peoples behalf when often they end up saying racist shit doing so. I encounter that a lot with the Middle East. People try to act super pc and say some shitty stuff that leaves out and demeans minorities in the Middle East. Fuck those people.

[–]Possible_Novelty 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Those are the exact situations I'm talking about. I literally want people to maintain the ability to cause others physical harm in a consequence free environment.

In all seriousness though don't you find it ironic that you took what I said about intentions and twisted it in a way to where there is only one right side (yours) and a wrong side (mine)?

[–]akong_supern00b 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Case in point: Stephen Amell (star of the CW show Arrow) recently tweeted something like "Stereotyping Texans isn't okay either" in response to the Texas student with the clock and got harassed off of social media.

Was he wrong? Not really. It's a fair point that two wrongs don't make a right. At the same time, it's a comment that does kinda miss the point of the whole issue. The issue has become about racial profiling and overreaction of the school administration, which has way more social implications and entanglements than calling people "racists". That doesn't mean Amell should be harassed for what he said though.

[–]woeskies 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think a lot of the pushback comes from pc types confusing intention with action and thought. Like I have people give me looks after asking where somebody is from who is obliviously foreign but a type of foreign of a language I speak so I use that to transition into speaking to them in their language. (eg name is Turkish. But instead of being an asshole and just going straight into Turkish leaving the other people out of the loop I use that to demonstrate I know the language and add context). But a lot of people get offended by that, because it often has racist connotation. I think the issue is they just look for words like rape or cunt or whatever rather than examine context. The use of the word fag is something I have also run into before because I sometimes still refer to cigarettes as fags out of habit. That is where the first pushback came from. But then it filled up with a ton of idiots who just want to hate trans people

[–]WilWheatonsScrote 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow, so I just watched the episode and it was complete unironic garbage. I literally did not laugh once. It was just the writers taking completely humorless shots at ridiculous strawmen for 20 minutes. And this is from someone who likes (liked? I honestly havent watched it in a couple of years) south park.

[–]hamfree77 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

This episode was really hard for me because Trey and Matt are my heroes and it's hard to watch something made by the people you love and be like "uhhh yeah not so good....". However, something that I think is really important to this conversation is that Matt and Trey don't make South Park episodes like most (or any) TV is made today. They make one episode in 6 days, from writing it to producing it. Now, I'm not saying this gives them a free pass or anything. I'm just saying that when you make episodes like that, you do get duds, especially if you've been out of the game for a few months. I think Matt and Trey are getting old and their hearts just aren't in it.

In all honesty, I think this episode is more making fun of where South Park is and what South Park has become than it is making fun of PC culture. South Park can't keep up any more. Look how many references to the last 9 months were used in a 20 minute episode? It turned into almost a gag. I was like "Really? How many more buzz headlines are we going to mention next?" And I think that's them making fun of themselves grabbing on to pop culture so much like they did last season. And how Cartmen can't beat PC Principle? A lot of people on r/southpark were like "Is this still the Cartmen that fed that guy his parents?" And the answer is no. He's not the same Cartmen because Matt and Trey are not the same people. Trey has talked about how when they started the show, he fed his voice through Stan and Matt through Kyle. But now that they're older, Trey is more like Randy. And if you watch the episode, Randy is fighting so hard to play with the young PC boys that he hurts himself drinking too much. And Kyle never has his "I learned something today" moment that is so iconic in South Park. He just gives up and goes with it.

This is just a young opinion or idea about the episode. I definitely think that the episode was problematic, especially when talking about the hate that Caitlyn has gotten and the real issues that were graced over (such as the Syrian refugee problem). I also do not feel comfortable with the way that most of reddit reacted to this episode. I would say "oh they're just missing the point" but I don't really know what the point was.

I'm still a little confused about what Trey and Matt intended in this episode, what their purpose was. Maybe the next episode will tell us?

TL;DR This is an episode about what South Park has become. Trey and Matt are now the old men who try to play with the new people and end up giving up their personal opinions and liver health.

[–]abhpro 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Definitely an interesting perspective you have on their intentions. Though, like you said, it's really difficult to tell what their intentions were. My problem with South Park episodes like this is that Matt and Trey don't seem to commit to either side of the argument, instead trying to make both sides seem equally illogical. But if you're so apathetic towards the entire situation, why even make an episode about it? If all your point boils down to is, "What's the big deal with this issue?", like a lot of their episodes seem to ask, why pretend like you have a strong opinion on it? Just to seem relevant? It's cool if you're apathetic towards most of our society's controversies. I know I am. But be empathetic and understand that there are people who feel passionate about these issues because these issues affect their daily lives. Sure, some of those people may be loud and annoying, but that's often how change starts and civil rights progress.

I guess my point is just that Matt and Trey often try too hard to seem like intelligent, independent outside observers, neither associating with conservatives nor liberals. And that often makes their messages unclear and kind of irrelevant to whatever the argument is.

[–]mattwilliams06 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

AKA, if people don't know/care about Caitlyn Jenner, then they are circlebroke. And the death spiral begins.

[–]MrDrumzOrz 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I notice all of the clips were missing that sane monologue you were talking about the other day.

[–]Las_Pollas_Hermanas 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, that was interesting. I hadn't watched South Park properly since about 2002, but there was so much hype and potential controversy about this particular episode that I decided to give it a go. It used to be reasonably funny and it wasn't like I had anything better to do, so how bad could it be?

Oh dear. It's the Daily Mail in televisual form. No wonder Reddit loved it.