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What does that mean? (self.Vive)

thewolf20 が 投稿

Why is there a goomba and this strange notice?: http://imgur.com/Izq0NoK

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[–]ItsSeanP 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/3lb6l8/avoid_rvive/

[–]BOLL7708 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yup, strange things are afoot.

[–]JPHTC 9ポイント10ポイント  (9子コメント)

Hello Vive sub. We want to apologize for any confusion and set the record straight. We approached the moderation team about helping out with this sub in order to make it a hub for up and coming Vive information. This meant AMAs with our team, developers, and industry insiders. We also planned to create reddit exclusive content for you, our most knowledgeable supporters. Our hopes were to drive traffic here from other sites because you as a community, our are most important and valuable friends. You have the unique ability to share both your passion and critiques of what we are trying to accomplish in a constructive manner. By pushing traffic here from our social handles and calling it our official subreddit, we were attempting to let the broader public know, this is where they could have a deeper conversation with your community.

The moderation team allowed me to be a moderator, of which I never changed anything or had plans to. Our team simply wanted a public figure on the forum in case you had a deep question and wanted to find me easily to ask. We were hoping to give the moderation team perks for growing this community and had hopes of working with them to test our system themselves so they could be among the most informed.

This new sub in question looks to be from the moderation team 500500 banned as moderators before having a conversation with me. We have nothing to do with it and did not ask that to happen. I had reached out to him a couple of times in the past week in hopes of working with him and the rest of the team. He did not respond and was absent from reddit for a few days. The rest of the team made a judgment call and allowed me to join the moderation team. Again, our only hopes were to create unique content for this reddit community and thank the moderation team for spreading the good word.

We apologize for any confusion this may have caused and would gladly answer any questions regarding the situation. This was never a “corporate take over” situation and we wish 500500 would have had a conversation with us about our intentions prior to this decision. We still want to be a part of this sub and create amazing exclusive and informative content for your community.

[–]Xyyz 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

We also planned to create reddit exclusive content for you, our most knowledgeable supporters.

What does this mean? Why would we want our content to be exclusive?

Our team simply wanted a public figure on the forum in case you had a deep question and wanted to find me easily to ask.

You can just be given a flair and have your name added to the side bar without being a moderator, by the way.

We were hoping to give the moderation team perks for growing this community and had hopes of working with them to test our system themselves so they could be among the most informed.

I don't know if this is normal in the industry, but I'm really hoping it isn't. This is not OK.

[–]JPHTC 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

By exclusive, we mean it is hosted on reddit. AMAs on reddit are exclusive in the fact that someone would come to reddit to see it.

In regards to testing the system, it made sense that the moderation team could test the platform at one of our events so they could be the most informed and knowledgeable about how it works. That was our only intention.

[–]Xyyz 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Moderators are not content creators, though. There's no reason a moderator should get preferential treatment over any random potential reviewer, unless you are trying to influence them.

[–]JPHTC 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Again, our intention was not to change the role of this sub. We value the criticism as much as the compliments found here as it allows us to create a better product and experience for you guys. Had more of a conversation taken place before this reaction, we could have explained that to 500500.

[–]JPHTC 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

"You can just be given a flair and have your name added to the side bar without being a moderator, by the way."

This is true and had 500500 and his team offered that, we would have happily agreed.

[–]Kuratagi 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've seen that discussion in the leaked mod's mails discussion but one of them preferred to add you to the mod team without proper answer. That's not understandable.

[–]catchavirus 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

What kind of "great Vibe perks" were you going to offer the "preexisting modteam"?

[–]Fsmv 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I for one think that sounds great. If you can't get r/vive's mods to play along please consider another subreddit name and people will go to you guys instead.

[–]Kuratagi 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not your fault, all this drama. You are doing your work, bribing or not. /u/500500 and /u/RIFT_VR has taken it too much unprofessionally, personally. Rift being too much greedy or ambitious and 500500 being a real dictator.

Both should talk and guide this to a good ending. All admins reapproved and you being flagged as HTC official, but not mod.

[–]Prince_ofRavens 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Way to go 500500, make sure everyone at HTC knows whose got the biggest dick.

[–]JohnDoom 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

So much salt. Perhaps Salty power-mad salt? Looks like /r/SteamVR is the alternative according to the /r/Oculus post.

[–]Kuratagi -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

It seems that is a kind of coup d'état in htc vive. Some admins admitted a HTC employee as a part of the admin team (I can't see any information about that so it pretended to be hidden).

HTC then took this sub as his "official" sub: https://twitter.com/htcvive/status/643115158210920448

Main admin removed them as admins and now they are trying to make another sub saying this one is not valid anymore:

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/3lb6l8/avoid_rvive/

Frankly I don't like this move.

[–]TweetsInCommentsBot 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

@htcvive

2015-09-13 17:32 UTC

For more in depth #HTCVive converstations check out the official Vive subreddit https://www.np.reddit.com/r/Vive/

[Attached pic] [Imgur rehost]

This message was created by a bot

[Contact creator][Source code]

[–]500500[M] -21ポイント-20ポイント  (28子コメント)

It means that the /r/vive subreddit is not a social media asset of the HTC corporation. It is a subreddit for users of reddit and independent..

It means that /r/vive will reject any attempt by HTC to secure moderation positions and with it the ability to censor and dictate content.

It means that /r/vive mods will NOT TAKE PERKS and will report any entity that tries to offer bribes or compensation for moderator actions.

The role of moderators is just to ensure that the subreddit stays on topic and spam.

It is not to take perks or to take instruction from corporations.

It means that all subreddit business is kept in mod mail

Unfortunately, some of the moderators engaged in improper relationships with HTC and I judged it best to start fresh.

There was also some worry lack of action from the admins

A PM and a reply when I reported it to the admins https://i.imgur.com/rPPjH6I.png

A mod mail dump.
http://i.imgur.com/qHcwAfc.jpg

I can stress that the previous mod team were naive and easily misled . They did not understand the role of moderators.

[–]RealmBreaker 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Unfortunately, it seems you pulled the trigger on this sub a little earlier than it could have been, if at all. This is a subreddit about HTC Vive, why wouldn't HTC themselves want to help with the free PR this subreddit already automatically brings it? You also obviously have enough power to kick everyone out like you so did, but still couldn't handle having someone from the subreddit's namesake come and provide support in any way they saw fit? I find it very kneejerk, and awfully shortsighted.

Why do I care? This subreddit seemed pretty awesome, but knowing some dude who controls it like a dictator can, and has exercised their complete control over other moderators due to an unfounded ideal really just makes this subreddit not worth people's time.

Whats the focus here? The Vive? or the moderator team? It's got HTC's product name on it for pete's sake.

[–]muchcharles 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Read the alleged dump. HTC offered perks in exchange for becoming moderators here.

[–]500500 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is a subreddit about HTC Vive, why wouldn't HTC themselves want to help with the free PR this subreddit already automatically brings it? Y

I can't handle HTC Corporation courting the moderation team and I cannot handle it when there is not an outright objection to it.

If HTC want to post here they can. They get the same treatment as every other reddit account. Hopefully their content drives upvotes.

knowing some dude who controls it like a dictator can, and has exercised their complete control over other moderators due to an unfounded ideal really just makes this subreddit not worth people's time.

That is the nature of reddit. Every top mod has complete control when it comes down to it. Sometimes it makes a sub shit. Sometimes it saves a sub from having corporate accounts installed as moderators and the censorship and generally shittyness that goes with that.

Also, please realise that the subreddit runs off automoderator. Every post and comment here gets approved. A few reposts and really off topic things are taken down with a reason. The moderators should NOT be important here. They are simply janitors.

[–]c0mmandhat 8ポイント9ポイント  (8子コメント)

Since this comment appears to be gaining upvotes, please note: This is not a "screw you, add the mod team back" threat. This is me trying to clear things up in a very blunt manner.

So the role of moderators is to screw up a good CSS theme and add a really blatant "the old mod team were being bribed" notice (that isn't even true)? Responded to here; "CSS doesn't hurt anyone... I was sick of corporate style, looking to overhaul it"

The modmail dump also does not include your own reply to any of this. So all I see is everyone saying "yes, we'd love to have someone helping out!" I forgot once again that reddit is special when it comes to PMs and doesn't show your own username, which hurts readbility in situations like these in my opinion.

You're handling this whole thing like a child; instead of talking with the HTC person in questsion to stop offering perks, you remove the entire mod team, add a couple randoms, report the HTC spokesperson with no warning, and expect no resistance at all. That's a nuke & pave method of moderating, and it has never helped anyone.

[–]DoubleDot7 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

Seems like it was an attempt at transparency. Could have been handled better, but I'd prefer an impartial mod team rather than one that's receiving perks, possibly in exchange for stifling any negative publicity.

[–]500500[M] 11ポイント12ポイント  (5子コメント)

My reply is in the modmail but not my account name beacause it is my inbox READ it

500500 says

"no, I don't think moderators hooking up with HTC social media is good for the community or of any benefit to this subreddit."

500500 says

"If HTC want to submit content to this subreddit and it meets our rules, then that is all there is to it. If that submission helps them create content for the tour, then good for them. I'm really not sure what they have in mind though. I just want to emphasise how simple any relationship should be."

The problem was that people were talking to HTC away from moderator mail and next minute there is a big push to add them as moderators. At the same time the HTC account was offering the moderator team PERKs. This is documented in the screenshots.

[–]c0mmandhat 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm an idiot, I'll strike out that part of the post.

I'd still like to see a reply to the rest of my comment; in particular the very first sentence.

[–]500500 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

So the role of moderators is to screw up a good CSS theme and add a really blatant "the old mod team were being bribed" notice (that isn't even true)?

CSS is for fun. It doesn't affect anyone. This isn't a corporate subreddit where we don't have to give a shit. Obviously it could be something else but I was feeling a bit sick looking at the corporate stylings . I will leave it up for a bit to give your complaint some context but will look to overhaul all of it.

The note is a message to HTC Corporation who have been persistently trying to court the moderation team. I'm making it absolutely clear that /r/Vive will not accept bribes or perks. I am not saying the old mods were bribed. It didn't get near that but there was not enough resistance to HTC Corporate, not enough reporting and too much interest in talking to them offline. So as a minor point they were removed so that I could put some established accounts in the top moderation positions

[–]c0mmandhat 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Fair enough.

What annoys me the most about all this is, as I and other have been saying, that this appears to be a nuke & pave rather then a sticky "we are the mod team and we won't accept bribes".

There's a whole bunch of what-ifs and but-thens that, to me, seem to outweigh the problems having a corporate account in moderator (or even as mentioned in a different comment thread, special flair and mod team list but nothing else) position would have. I'll air a few here, please don't feel a need to respond to them (or, for that matter, to this comment).

What If the account in question was truly trying to help? There are a few subreddits such as /r/oculus (though very few and far between) where there are official accounts doing nothing except what was offered here; free support and more official [product] related banner materials. Neither of which is in violation of Reddit rules, and sometimes encouraged.

What If you had just silently reported the bribe attempt? The account mentions that they headed the PR team, so you would've had Reddit mods emailing the very same person trying to get a position here. If there truly were perks being offered, you'd either see an email or a modmail about them being revoked, or all contact with that account would suddenly cease.

What If you asked to be included in that email cc chain? You're a mod and subreddit creator, right? Obviously you need to see what your mods were thinking. Yes, it's Big Brother like, but hands-off moderation can ruin a subreddit just as bad as a corporate controlled subreddit.

[–]JPHTC 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

500500 was asked to be a part of all discussions. We wanted to make sure it was ok with the whole moderation team.

[–]c0mmandhat 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's possible that you asked, but he didn't respond, or he misinterpreted a few things in whichever conversations he saw. The last What If at the bottom is in response to his statement that "there was a need to discuss things offline", and "a big push to add them to the mod team".

[–]WrenSC2 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're a joke admin, and this is a garbage subreddit.

Congratz on killing any chance this had on being anything.

Moron.

[–]500500 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So you are saying I should have taken the perks and obeyed the corporation's will?

[–]CsmicPerspective 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm sorry but what perks are you referring to?

The offer of helping design the subs banner? That's literally the only thing I can see here.

Unless I've missed something completely, this seems like an over reaction.

The HtC mod clearly described his intentions, you would retain complete control of his capabilities, and no perks of any kind were offered other than design help..

[–]0-cares-given 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

I can stress that the previous mod team were naive and easily misled . They did not understand the role of moderators.

Is that why you removed them without their consent?

[–]500500 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

They added an HTC Corporate account as a moderator without my consent.

The HTC corporate account promised them perks and they did not object or report it.

I may add back a couple of the moderators but I want to fill the top moderator positions with some established reddit users first. You also need to understand that the moderators here did very little. There are no rules in this subreddit and everything gets automatically approved

[–]0-cares-given 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Who started this sub?

[–]BI_Joe 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

500500 (that's why he can remove the others)

[–]muchcharles 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Can't believe you are getting downvoted over this. The perk offers are abhorent if true and /u/rift-vr's post to /r/oculus didn't mention them at all.

[–]malibar1 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

they probably did not want to share information with you because you seem to be so sensitive to it and take information very poorly and overreact instead of talking it out. i had an old room mate the same way, if you get angry when people tell you things then they will not want to tell you things anymore...

[–]2flock 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I support this vision. Can I be a moderator?

[–]Ghs2 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

See, now the response to that, in my eyes, is "Oh, sorry, we can't allow perks."

The current situation seems like a very strange response.

[–]CsmicPerspective 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

What. Perks.

I read the dump and other than design help for banners I don't see a single offer.

[–]c0mmandhat 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's a link in the original comment where /u/500500 reports the original email offering perks to the reddit admins.

[–]500500 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

https://i.imgur.com/rPPjH6I.png

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