(cache) simism66がWe are simply too stupid to understand Sammy - We Need to Talk About Islam’s Jihad Problem • /r/samharrisについて記入したコメント

We are simply too stupid to understand Sammy - We Need to Talk About Islam’s Jihad Problem • /r/samharris (reddit.com)

Brickus"Why are you for death penalty? Because Sam Harris is alive." が 1日前投稿

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[–]simism66Your logic is not conducive to a valid curriculum. 11ポイント12ポイント13ポイント 22時間前 (22子コメント)

[+]boxdreper スコアが基準値未満のコメント-24ポイント-23ポイント-22ポイント 21時間前 (21子コメント)

[–]simism66Your logic is not conducive to a valid curriculum. 19ポイント20ポイント21ポイント 21時間前 (18子コメント)

[+]boxdreper スコアが基準値未満のコメント-26ポイント-25ポイント-24ポイント 21時間前 (17子コメント)

[–]simism66Your logic is not conducive to a valid curriculum. 16ポイント17ポイント18ポイント 20時間前 (16子コメント)

[–]nuclearseraph 17ポイント18ポイント19ポイント 19時間前 (0子コメント)

[+]boxdreper スコアが基準値未満のコメント-17ポイント-16ポイント-15ポイント 19時間前 (7子コメント)

[–]simism66Your logic is not conducive to a valid curriculum. 17ポイント18ポイント19ポイント 18時間前* (5子コメント)

Look, this isn't a place for learns, but, fuck it, I'll explain to you what's offensive about the picture on that article. First, it's a caricature of a Jihadist with the most stereotypical attributes imaginable: a beard, turban, and over-emphasized facial features intended to make him look distinctively Arab. He's holding an AK-47, his eyes are closed and his is mouth open, as if he's blindly shouting some sort praise to Allah. It might not even be the case that all of this was entirely conscious in the head of the illustrator, but that is the stereotype this picture connotes.

Such a caricature is dehumanizing, and it grossly oversimplifies the issue to make it look Islamic extremists are just some crazy people who are brainwashed by their religious dogma, when, in fact, any form of Islamic extremism is deeply interwoven with complex political and cultural issues. There are different Islamic groups with different political goals, different cultural ties that orient them in different ways, and they must be understood as such in order to know what the best way of solving the problems such groups actually pose.

Rather than appreciating these complexities, this sort of caricature makes it look like it's cut-and-dry, good-vs-bad, us reasonable people against those blind Islamic extremists. This reflects exactly what's wrong with the anti-Islamic narrative that Harris endorses here. It completely ignores the political, historical, and cultural complexities that any issue involving Islamic extremism actually involves. It makes it seem as it's a simple issue of Islamic doctrine endorsing violence. This is just untrue, and thinking that it is stands in the way of a real solution the the problem.

[+]boxdreper スコアが基準値未満のコメント-13ポイント-12ポイント-11ポイント 18時間前 (4子コメント)

THANK YOU! I still don't think the image is offensive. It might oversimplify, but offensive? Offensive to who? And don't say Jihadists because I couldn't care less if they're offended.

Also, Harris wants to reform Islam, so that Muslims can ignore the barbaric passages in the Koran/Hadith just as easily as Christians can with the bible. That's why he's working with Maajid, and supporting other Muslim reformers. Is that anti-Islam? It seems to me that reforming Islam is the only way to make sure it survives.

Islamic doctrine does endorse violence, and Islam is clearly not a "religion of peace." We see all over the industrialized world young Muslims joining ISIL, and it's not like they grew up in countries plagued by war or anything like that, so in their case it really is all about Islam. Of course there would be no ISIL if the entire world was different, and at peace, but it's not correct to say that is Islam didn't exists ISIL would still be around, just under a different name.

[–]simism66Your logic is not conducive to a valid curriculum. 12ポイント13ポイント14ポイント 18時間前 (3子コメント)

It might oversimplify, but offensive? Offensive to who?

I showed it to a close friend who's Arab and whose family is Muslim, and she found it extremely offensive.

Also, Harris wants to reform Islam

My first thought was to ask if it really Harris' role to try to reform a religion to which he has absolutely no cultural ties, but I see he just co-wrote a book on the issue and, having not read the book, I don't want to mischaracterize his views.

Islamic doctrine does endorse violence, and Islam is clearly not a "religion of peace."

I'm sure you've heard this before, but the scriptures of all major religions have passages that can be seen as endorsing violence and passages that can be seen as endorsing peace.

it's not correct to say that is Islam didn't exists ISIL would still be around, just under a different name.

I didn't say that.

[+]boxdreper スコアが基準値未満のコメント-10ポイント-9ポイント-8ポイント 17時間前 (2子コメント)

I showed it to a close friend who's Arab and whose family is Muslim, and she found it extremely offensive.

Does she also find the google image results for "jihadist" offensive? Most of them wear turbans, have weapons and generally look a lot like the image in the article.

the scriptures of all major religions have passages that can be seen as endorsing violence and passages that can be seen as endorsing peace.

Yes, but as stated in the article.

Of course, the Bible contains barbaric passages, as well. But there are historical and theological reasons why Christians and Jews can now easily ignore them. Unfortunately, out of excessive concern not to appear biased, many liberals consider any discussion of the special problem posed by Islamism to be a sign of bigotry. This attitude helps bar the door to reform.

As I've said before, it's Harris's goal to reform Islam (and yes, he should be allowed to help reform Islam even though he's not a Muslim) and Christianity and other religions have been reformed. Also, I'm not (and Harris is not) claiming that Christianity is a religion of peace either. Harris has time and time again acknowledged that the old testament is much worse than the Koran, and that if scripture was everything Jews would be a bigger problem. Again, the goal is to get Islam to where Christianity and Judaism is now, where most people can easily ignore the parts of their scripture that tell them to kill apostates or stone women who refuse to marry their rapists.

I didn't say that.

No, but I'm trying to get you to acknowledge that Islam plays a huge role here. It seems to me that you think it's almost all politic and culture (well religion is culture isn't it?), and that religion plays a minor role. Maybe you don't believe that, but that's what I gather from your comment.

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[–]Maltek 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 19時間前 (0子コメント)

[+]boxdreper スコアが基準値未満のコメント-19ポイント-18ポイント-17ポイント 19時間前 (6子コメント)

[–]UsesBigWordsthe best flute player 13ポイント14ポイント15ポイント 19時間前 (5子コメント)

[+]boxdreper スコアが基準値未満のコメント-12ポイント-11ポイント-10ポイント 18時間前 (4子コメント)

A Jihadist is a Muslim, but a Muslim isn't necessarily a Jihadist. The Muslim in the picture has an AK-47. He's a violent Muslim. He's a Jihadist. The topic is Jihad. And there's a picture of a Muslim with an AK. The Muslim had an AK. What Muslim use AKs? Jihadist maybe? The topic is Jihad, and there's a picture of a Jihadist. How do I know he's a Jihadist? Well I use the skills I learned from /u/simism66. I look at the context and see that the topic is Jihad. There is a picture of a Jihadist and the topic is Jihad. Now I think I might just have gotten my point across this time. I'm not misrepresenting his claim. He said

it's an article about Islamic Jihad and it's an offensive caricature of a Jihadist.

And let me say once again. A Jihadist is a type of Muslim.

So tell me, what is offensive about a picture of Jihadist, when you're talking about Jihad? What offensive about this picture of a Jihadist? How could it have been less offensive to Jihadists? Should there be no AK, because Jihadists don't use AKs? I really don't understand his comment at all. Not one bit. Again, Muslim with AK, the topic is Jihad, that means we can assume the Muslim is a Jihadist, just like /u/simism66 did. But even though he knew it was a Jihadist he chose to use the word "Muslim" to make the author of the article seem Islamophobic. That's so freaking stupid, and he did it all in an effort to circlejerk and get some sweet sweet karma. No one answers my questions, because you guys are just wrong. This is not offensive, you're just jumping on the "any criticism of Islam is islamophobic" train. Have nice ride.

[–]UsesBigWordsthe best flute player 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 18時間前 (3子コメント)

[+]boxdreper スコアが基準値未満のコメント-9ポイント-8ポイント-7ポイント 18時間前 (2子コメント)

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[–]completely-ineffableLiterally Saul Kripke, Talented Autodidact 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 15時間前 (1子コメント)

[–]Solve_et_Memoria 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 12時間前 (0子コメント)

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