上位 200 件のコメント表示する 500

[–]UnoriginalRhetoric 268ポイント269ポイント  (321子コメント)

I really enjoyed his point on how his issue with Quiet wasn't explicitly the sexuality. It was the sexuality being shoehorned in into the plot in a way which weakened the cohesion of the character. She has all this bad ass power, and an awesome narrative hook, a hardened soldier, given a second chance with amazing power but at a terrible cost.

Its a cool tragic backstory for a kick ass and unique character. Used almost exclusively as an excuse for non-stop and nonsensical fanservice. What's best for a cohesive story and character take a back seat to marketing and audience whistling.

Which isn't morally wrong, its just narratively disappointing. Quiet was a huge focus of the game, and in a game already so narratively sparse, why in the world did they make the decision to turn her into a fan service character and strip out so much narrative possibility?

She gets good story beats, but half of her is being directed by the outside demand of fan service, and half of her is being directed by the story she is in. Weakening the cohesion of the narrative as it tries to accommodate outside and antithetical demands to its own goals. Resulting in something not as good as going whole hog in either direction.

She is a tragic hardened solider! In sexy lingerie! She is feared and ostracized for her powers! She hangs out topless in her jail cell! She kills without remorse! She loves to do playful strip teases in the rain! She lost her ability to speak! But she didn't lose her ability to shake dat ass!

It would take a lot of work to make all those traits fit together to keep the tragic and serious tone of her character. None of which was done. Its just mashed together to serve two conflicting goals.

[–]Calorie_Mate 91ポイント92ポイント  (26子コメント)

It was the sexuality being shoehorned in into the plot in a way which weakened the cohesion of the character.

That's the main issue. Many of her characteristics aren't that unusual. The "playful killer" trope for example, is nothing new at all. It's the unusual and somewhat sloppy combination that creates the issue with the character, and how she's perceived ultimately.

There were many moments where I thought "damn, she's a great character", and then she shoved her butt into my face on the ACC, or stretched like a cat. Even though I still respect the character, she's not what she could've been ultimately.

[–]Shippoyasha 10ポイント11ポイント  (6子コメント)

I guess it could have been better if Quiet was able to be shown that all of her flirtatious behavior was her cover act. Because that is what Quiet basically does the entire game. I think the reason why acts like a cat in Mother Base is to throw off her captors, who basically put her on constant surveillance. It was something that befuddled even Ocelot, who is a professional torturer and interrogator.

I do think Quiet being a sexual character is intentional, but she ended up being a lot more of a complex character than someone like Sniper Wolf who basically had one pre-death speech attributed to her.

And I think Quiet being so sexual actually does work in her favor as a silent infiltrator to an enemy base.

At the very least, Quiet does make more sense than someone like Mantis who influences the game in major ways and yet the game never explains precisely where his power comes from.

[–]Shoden 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

At the very least, Quiet does make more sense than someone like Mantis who influences the game in major ways and yet the game never explains precisely where his power comes from.

The game actually attempts too, if you listen to all the audio tapes. Whether this is a good explanation I will leave up to you, but I was surprised by once again Kojima going "let me tell you exactly how this is happening" in his fashion.

[–]nemesiscw 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

I guess it could have been better if Quiet was able to be shown that all of her flirtatious behavior was her cover act.

Spoiler

[–]ShakemasterNixon 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's pretty close to how I've felt about this, even after finishing Episode 45 last night (gonna finish Episode 46 tonight, so excited!). Forget the greater discussion this could be taken into about feminism, empowerment, sexual confidence, censorship, or any other context that this could be talked about in. Let's only focus on Quiet as a character in a narrative.

How do they justify her sexual depiction in the game? She needs to have her skin exposed to photosynthesize for nourishment, and also to absorb oxygen from the air around her. Therefore, she needs to have as much skin as possible exposed to stay alive. Alright, sure, that's actually a pretty neat idea. However, aside from Quiet, is there a single character or plot point that substantiates her outfit? Aside from her lungs/intestines being burned in the prologue, not really, no. Skull face has an implied backstory of very similar circumstances from what I recall (his lungs are almost certainly not working properly), and yet he is easily 85% clothed. So really, from a plot perspective, while showing some skin and dressing lightly would be perfectly reasonable (like, say, her unlocked XOF uniform with some shorts instead of pants), there's not a very good reason for the extent to which she is undressed. I mean, there's a reason, but it's not a great one.

However, I wouldn't go so far as to say she can't be showy. Every woman, aside from maybe Hal's sister in MGS2, is sexual to some degree. It's almost unilaterally internally consistent for major woman characters to be sexual in this series. The problem that arises from this line of thought is that almost (almost is emphasized; Fortune, boob jiggling, and BnB girls fall in the same issue to a lesser degree) all these sexual moments or characteristics served a purpose to the plot or narrative through both literal effects and symbolic meaning.

Meryl is in just a top and panties in one scene because she was in the middle of getting out of a uniform that smelled like blood and sickened her, which while vaguely sexual (the PS1 is not the best vector for titillation, really) still grew her character in a very, very meaningful way that had implications all the way through MGS4, to the end of her story. She also puts the suit back on very shortly after.

EVA blatantly unzips her jumpsuit (to where I'd almost call it comical) only around Snake because she was trying to seduce him and steal the Philosopher's Legacy, which while overtly sexual, turns into the biggest plot point of the entire epilogue and plays a huge part in setting the entire MGS storyline into motion.

The Boss opens her combat suit and shows her midriff at the very end of the game after exposing her entire backstory to Naked Snake, as a symbolic gesture of baring herself to him and leaving herself incredibly vulnerable to him at the climax of the story. It humanized a traitor that, up to that point, we figured was probably either malicious or horribly misguided.

While all these things were sexual in a cheesy, campy way, they served the plot or character development in some way, literal or symbolic. Quiet's outfit serves no purpose for the story. Rather than her sexuality being used as a vector to develop character or drive the story, the story is being used as a vector to justify her being sexual. That's probably why some people feel weird about her and not the other examples I just listed. It's because the story (through Ocelot's monologue and that shower scene) goes out of its way to fill the crack in the wall that is Quiet's fan-service-y getup, rather than Quiet's sexuality being a cohesive part of a whole. Instead of being a brick in a wall, it's more like wet spackling on drywall lazily smeared over a hole, and it sticks out as such.

Does this damage Quiet's character? To some modest extent, I'd say it can. Switching back over to personal anecdote, I was annoyed when she was sticking her ass in my face in the ACC. The scene in the rain was awkward as all hell. I was watching the whole time cradling the side of my face in my hand, sighing loudly as the camera panned down under her squatting buttocks as she stripped her leggings, followed by witnessing Quiet break character in at least two ways in less than thirty seconds for the sake of...what purpose did that scene have that her tape after Episode 45 didn't also cover?

I still like Quiet, but it's in spite of the obnoxious sexuality that was thrown in my face from time to time. Really, that's the way I'd sum it up: obnoxious and unnecessary. I wasn't offended, triggered, traumatized, or whatever other hyperbolic/smarmy word gets thrown around in arguments about this, I was annoyed. Annoyed because this character I really liked was designed with an unnecessarily revealing outfit that I then gladly replaced with the XOF uniform at the exact moment it was available.

[–]Non_Causa_Pro_Causa [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

However, aside from Quiet, is there a single character or plot point that substantiates her outfit? Skull face has an implied backstory of very similar circumstances from what I recall (his lungs are almost certainly not working properly), and yet he is easily 85% clothed.

The female skulls have basically equivalent outfits, and are said to be using the same parasite as Quiet. Skullface is said to have multiple parasitic infections, but not the same (or he wasn't compatible with the kind she uses). This is touched on in tapes.

[–]ranthun 28ポイント29ポイント  (9子コメント)

But that is MGS. A crazy character with tragic backstories. Quiet is right at home in the MGS franchise, the only difference really is the current climate of criticizing sexuality in videogames. How do people forget that this are the same games with the bosses that dance while you take pictures of them and the segment where Raiden has to walk completely naked. Eva also being sexualized, this is all the norm for the series and it all fits and is done incredible well.

[–]Microchaton 17ポイント18ポイント  (6子コメント)

She's not "crazy" though, just naked.

[–]DeeDoubs 14ポイント15ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think by crazy /u/ranthun/ was referring to her attributes as some kind of virus-mutated super-human being out of the ordinary rather than Quiet being literally insane/of unsound mind.

[–]ranthun 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Im saying it fits within the MGS universe. Complaning about Quiet makes no sense because then huge parts of MGS would have to change. The weirdness and oddness of the games are a huge part of what makes them popular.

[–]flybypost [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

The weirdness and oddness of the games are a huge part of what makes them popular.

Somehow I think they could have kept this essence without her running around in a bikini. Her MGS essence is not really dependent on being half naked. It was just used as a really weak excuse to show her that way.

[–]chrisrobin [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It is, but so is this and this and this and this, but the games are filled with nudity and overtly sexual themes (I mean, I don't know if you noticed, but Vamp has a knife strapped to his dick that he licks all the time). These are just the few things I could think of off the top of my head. The games are filled with this kind of shit and it isn't exclusively women.

[–]sixannndtwo 50ポイント51ポイント  (175子コメント)

back seat to marketing and audience whistling.

Is it that unlikely that Kojima just wanted it to be like this? It seems presumptuous to just label it fan-service. Maybe his vision for the character and series is different from that of the fans that wanted something more serious, and he is sticking to it despite that.

[–]UnoriginalRhetoric 78ポイント79ポイント  (130子コメント)

His vision can be whatever he pleases, but either a character is well written and designed for the story its in or it isn't.

If all of Quiet's actions are supposed to be cohesive with the character, setting, and plot, with no outside influence then all the blame rests on narrative's complete inability to make that work.

Because half of her character makes no sense with the other half. It would be much more kind to Kojima to go with the fan service conclusion.

If this is his vision, it was not even mildly realized. Which, hey, writing off half her character to fan service is totally within his right and people are fine to enjoy it. Just realize that this is not as good as making everything cohesive while meeting your vision, even if your vision is fan service.

[–]SovAtman 18ポイント19ポイント  (11子コメント)

I totally agreee with you. Compared to many other women in the series, including Fortune, Dr. Clark, and even like Emma from MGS2, something about Quiet's depiction really sticks out. Like all those characters are to a degree sexualized, like Fortune's outfit is ridiculous, but for some reason it felt like it just fit the bizarre universe and never obscured her character. Like sexuality is definitely a significant part of how MGS characters are depicted. And even accepting that, Quiet uniquely feels like they messed up. Like that's fine I guess if she likes dancing in the rain, but why exactly are we watching it at length, and what the hell is the camera doing.

[–]cloud7928 15ポイント16ポイント  (6子コメント)

And then there's EVA. Nearly everything she does and achieves in MGS3 is by using her female attributes. She even admits exactly that. You are also forgetting you could watch her tits for a minute in cutscenes by pressing R1.

Or MGS4 where you could jiggle every womans tits in cutscenes by moving your DS3 up and down.

[–]jacks0nX 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

And then there's EVA. Nearly everything she does and achieves in MGS3 is by using her female attributes. She even admits exactly that. You are also forgetting you could watch her tits for a minute in cutscenes by pressing R1.

Yes and there's a reason for that which is not shoehorned into the game. She's not doing that only to appeal to the male audience or have sexytime with Snake. She's got ulterior motives that completely fit the motif of the game: scene. She's one among many characters that hurt, lie and betray Snake. They all play their role and create a scenery that just fits the bigger picture. This is what makes Snake Eater (among others of the series) so great.. and Phantom Pain not.

[–]GligoriBlaze420 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

Dude, EVA is a fucking spy, of course she's seducing Snake. That's pretty much her mission. Quiet just does it because Kojima wants players to pop a boner.

[–]SovAtman 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah I thought of EVA. It could be a good example, but using "female attributes" isn't itself the problem. The cutscene thing felt like more of a joke, I guess, and it didn't juxtapose over a completely serious character/situation in her context? I dunno. Even the theoretically "worst" depictions of EVA don't seem to come close? The issue is that Quiet sticks out so much, like the sexual depiction of her seems to stand completely aside the narrative. Even if you'd say the same abut Eva, it's like 1/10th the problem.

[–]ranthun 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Its weird to see this complains. MGS is full scenes that help develop characters, the dancing in the rain is just who she is. Its meant to establish the progressive closeness between the Boss and Quiet. There has always been this scenes. If anything MGSV has less of them. Dont people remember Mei Ling talking about proverbs all the time or the other hours and hours of nonsensical content. Thats one of the things that made MGS famous, the characters develop by non critical elements , in a way that could only be done in videogames.

[–]whomwould 13ポイント14ポイント  (9子コメント)

Besides being mostly naked, she doesnt actually engage in any fan-servicey actions unless you forge a bond with her, and she doesn't start "shaking her ass" until that's pretty much maxed out. There's a clear love story in the plot between Venom and Quiet, and if you want to argue that its mechanical/plot execution could be better, or that a voiceless character trying to flirt physically is bad writing, that's fine, but either way it makes a lot more sense than "none at all".

[–]UnoriginalRhetoric 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

and if you want to argue that its mechanical/plot execution could be better, or that a voiceless character trying to flirt physically is bad writing, that's fine, but either way it makes a lot more sense than "none at all".

That is what everyone is saying. Her whole sexual side feels tacked on and mechanical. It never really goes beyond "she wears sexy clothes and will get real close and personal with you".

The entire progress of her actions feel more like player reward mile stones being met than the actual development of a well written and fleshed out character.

she doesnt actually engage in any fan-servicey actions

Also, just to be suuuuper pedantic. If you visit quiet in her cell after she first gets on boss she is in there topless! I believe by the internet law of pointlessly aggressive arguments, this means I win.

[–]dsiOneBAN2 12ポイント13ポイント  (7子コメント)

TIL laying face down sunbathing is a fan-servicey action and not just "an action".

[–]mobiuszeroone [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Are you trying to argue that it's not fanservice?

Sunbathing almost nude, walking slowly and seductively around her cage like a stripper, taking showers every minute and rubbing herself, presenting her tits and ass to the player?

[–]sixannndtwo 38ポイント39ポイント  (90子コメント)

His vision can be whatever he pleases, but either a character is well written and designed for the story its in or it isn't.

It is. The Metal Gear universe is quite insane and campy. This character is only not cohesive if you think it's on a realistic setting.

[–]UnoriginalRhetoric 20ポイント21ポイント  (75子コメント)

Realism in the sense of what I have been talking about is about the world of the setting and the established character blending together cohesively. Are her actions real to the character, real to the setting, real to the world?

Not about copying the real world.

Quiet's character is simply not cohesive, its like two seperate characters tacked together without any work done to bring together the antithetical halves. Her actions don't feel real to her motivations, or her narrative, or her setting, or her tone. They just feel mechanically inserted from outside the story all together.

[–]sixannndtwo 32ポイント33ポイント  (73子コメント)

I guess I fundamentally disagree with it being two separate characters. I have little problem with a character that has a serious story being in a bikini, it honestly doesn't stick out at all to me in this series.

[–]Drakengard 43ポイント44ポイント  (60子コメント)

I agree with that. Look at Vamp in the previous games. Or Fortune in MGS2. Or Pyscho Mantis. Vulcan Raven is ridiculous on all accounts, too.

I mean, the only reason people are upset is because she's not wearing much of anything. Ok...so what? If that makes her impossible to take serious, you haven't been paying much attention to half the characters in this series.

[–]payne6 28ポイント29ポイント  (47子コメント)

Speaking of Vamp he basically ran around in MGS4 with nothing but pants and shoes on and no one said his character is a bad one even with the stupid nanomachines people were like "meh" or "GIVE ME A BREAK." Nothing about how disappointed they were in the character.

I feel like people were expecting this amazingly written game from Kojima and didn't really get that. Like the massive hype for the game ruined it. People were predicting shit for quiet when in reality Kojima didn't really say that much about the characters. I feel the game as a whole lacked narrative everything was told via cassettes.

EDIT: I should say in game his character is a lot more sexualized than what that picture looks like. The camera did like his crotch and he would seductively lick his knife after stabbing someone and say it was because he was a vampire and needed blood. You also had things like this in cutscenes.

[–]hollowcrown51 26ポイント27ポイント  (22子コメント)

He has a knife sheathed where his penis used to be that he keeps getting out and licking. It's ridiculous but no one complained he was being sexualised.

[–]UnoriginalRhetoric 20ポイント21ポイント  (7子コメント)

Because sexualization isn't the issue.

Its the cohesiveness of the character. Vamp is consistently campy and sexual in almost everything he does. That's how a strong character works, their actions are consistent and make internal sense to themselves. He is developed as a flamboyant, out there character and he maintains it. His actions make sense with the way his character was laid out.

Quiet, is more like two characters glued together. Her sexual side and her soldier side don't interact outside of sharing one character's body. They more switch on and off depending on the scene. Its not cohesive and fairly inconsistent with the character's own development. No real work is done to make the two sides feel whole.

We already know that MGSV was sparse on narrative. One of the casualties of this was fully developing Quiet's character. You get all these disparate behaviors with little to nothing linking them. People just have some criticisms of how the character was handled, thats all.

[–]DocileBanalBovine 5ポイント6ポイント  (12子コメント)

Speaking of Vamp he basically ran around in MGS4 with nothing but pants and shoes on

And this is equivalent to running around in a thong bikini and ripped tights? Did they try to claim he had to dress that way because he would die because nanomachines? Does his clothing seem like an active hindrance to his ability to perform as a soldier the way Quiet's does?

[–]payne6 16ポイント17ポイント  (6子コメント)

I said to another user the camera loved his crotch and he seductively licked his knife everytime he shanked someone. He was in a battleground filled with soliders, super soliders, mechs and etc. There is no reason for just pants and one sleeve on.

I am not justifying Quiet all I am saying is I feel like people are upset that the game really lacks a narrative and using Quiet as the scape goat. I feel MGS5 as a whole lacks a lot of narrative and every character suffers from it. Even Ocelot is pretty bland when in previous games he was a great character.

Kojima does like to sexulize his characters and I feel her being in a bikini is no different than what he has done in the past. Apparently fangirls love Vamp and Raiden and he sexualized the fuck out of both of them. This is no surprise to fans I think the real surprise was the lack of story and so many cassette tapes.

[–]Fyrus 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

Does his clothing seem like an active hindrance to his ability to perform as a soldier the way Quiet's does?

Quiet's outfit doesn't hinder her at all. I can't say more without spoilers, but don't comment on something if you don't know what you're talking about.

[–]bradamantium92 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Nothing about how disappointed they were in the character.

That's kind of the point. None of that is disappointing. It's completely in line with his character, who's uncomfortably hyper sexual and has no need for more protection than his crazy regenerative powers. And almost everything Vamp does that seems sexual is done for the sake of discomforting the player - licking the blood off of a knife isn't supposed to be sexy, it's creepy.

[–]emmanuelvr 25ポイント26ポイント  (10子コメント)

I agree with that. Look at Vamp in the previous games. Or Fortune in MGS2. Or Pyscho Mantis. Vulcan Raven is ridiculous on all accounts, too.

Look at goddamn Raiden. His entire design in MGS2 exists to attract younger females. He is this tragic child soldier who went through the toughest shit and his design is a pretty blonde guy designed aroound the bishonen mindset with impeccable skin who is constantly sexualized through the game.

[–]cloud7928 26ポイント27ポイント  (7子コメント)

Shinkawa explained in the MGS2 documentary that every character he creates is supposed to be sexy and sexualized. That's just how the Metal Gear art design works.

[–]plank_ 1ポイント2ポイント  (12子コメント)

This was a reply to a deleted comment, but I think it fits here

I think the problem is that they play it seriously in it's tone. MGS is a very uneasy balance between trying to be in a real world and batshit strangeness.

Compare it against other fictional variants on the real world, they just go all-in with it or almost explicitly go "we're handwaving this bit of unreality away, have fun". Advanced technology in a Victorian era setting - steampunk. Mythical monsters in a real world - Underworld movies, etc. Letting you go off the rails with stupid amounts of weaponry as a gangster in a vague real world - GTA series (or going further down the alternate ridiculousness road - Saint's Row). Near future tech military shooter - Tom Clancy games.

To be fair to MGS, they laid the groundwork in '98 with MGS1, and if you're going to use a brand that established itself it's hard to reverse course. An alternate game made now that either plays it straight or fully embraces the strange wouldn't stand out now, a lot of MGS is trading on the name.

[–]ranthun 16ポイント17ポイント  (5子コメント)

But that is one of its greatest strengths. The crazyness combined with the serious themes.

[–]Teohtime 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

a very uneasy balance between trying to be in a real world and batshit strangeness.

Doesn't this just describe Japanese media in general? No love for MGS but if it's a story from a Japanese developer and it rides the line between serious drama and ridiculous comedy slash over-dramatic self parody, then I would consider that par for the course.

[–]MoldyDinosaur 32ポイント33ポイント  (33子コメント)

If this is his "vision", which it probably is, then it deserves all the criticism it gets. Saying it is your vision is not a defense from criticism.

[–]CheezmoMiner 9ポイント10ポイント  (27子コメント)

That and "he's been doing it since the first MGS!" like that somehow excuses criticism.

[–]payne6 32ポイント33ポイント  (12子コメント)

But it kind of does at least in my mind. Because its what you come to expect. Like you go see the latest Tarantino movie and its full of violence and curses what did you expect it to be full of? Kojima wrote a universe where campy shit happens. He wrote a universe where a character reads your memory card or tells you to unplug your controller and put it in the 2nd port. He made a universe where a character controls bees, he made a universe where a bandanna giving infinite ammo is real and pointed out.

You can criticize it go for it MGS5 isn't the best story in the world and has weird characters but I am just saying I understand why people are saying hes been doing it for awhile. This universe is pretty nuts and a woman sniping someone while in a bikini is probably the tamest shit I have seen in this series.

[–]symon_says [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

He hasn't. I don't see how anyone could argue he has.

[–]tonybateman 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think she fits in perfectly with the metal gear universe though. Maybe if someone isn't used to the franchise they might feel her look is out of place but otherwise it's pretty normal for metal gear.

[–]TheFatalWound 4ポイント5ポイント  (23子コメント)

Quiet was a huge focus of the game

No she wasn't.

She's an optional buddy recruit.

[–]Ranjomomma 28ポイント29ポイント  (19子コメント)

Did you play the same game as me? She is probably the second most Important character besides Big Boss

[–]TheFatalWound 0ポイント1ポイント  (11子コメント)

Everything she was involved in is completely separate from the major takeaways of the game's overall story beats. She is an OPTIONAL CHARACTER.

I'm not saying that the parts she was in weren't enjoyable (sans the absurdist fanservice).

But you're either being hyperbolic, haven't finished the full story (through mission 46), or paid attention to the wrong aspects.

[–]bradamantium92 16ポイント17ポイント  (9子コメント)

Just because she's "optional" doesn't mean that she's not a focus. She's one of the precious few characters that gets a completely fleshed out arc and subplot. She's the only Buddy that has any significant story.

[–]DaveSW777 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Optional contradicts focus. She's has what amounts to a Social Link from Persona, and nothing more. She's also the only human buddy, and frankly putting her next to a dog, a horse, and a glorified Segway is demeening in and of itself.

[–]dsiOneBAN2 8ポイント9ポイント  (63子コメント)

I'm not sure you understand what Quiet's goal as a character is if you think her being powerful and sexy are somehow conflicting.

[–]Mangopup 16ポイント17ポイント  (8子コメント)

Nobody is denying she is powerful and sexy, I don't think most people critiquing her are against that idea, or even the bikini she's wearing. It has more to do with the way the camera moves around her and her idle movements in the chopper, which is most definitely in conflict with her being powerful and sexy. I already see her sexiness from a non-perverted perspective, the extra animations and camera pans are very unnecessary.

Yeah Kojima does it all the time with some of his other lady characters, like Naomi's cleavage or Mei Ling's butt, and it's always been awkward. It's that same awkwardness you see in your favorite anime when a female character's breasts start uncontrollably jiggling. It all simply feels like Kojima doesn't have any faith in the character he created, so he resorts to pervy pandering in an attempt to make them interesting.

Even with all of that, Quiet is a real great character in both gameplay and story. Her story arc was really emotional.

[–]Whadios 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

which is most definitely in conflict with her being powerful and sexy

How is a movement completely in conflict with her being powerful and sexy? What movement exactly causes this?

[–]Mangopup 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

As you increase her bond she gets more and more overt with her movements. At max bond she will hang her breasts and put her butt in your face, there are more ways to show affection is all I'm saying. I thought that scene on Mother Base where she was splashing around in the rain was a decent way of showing her growing affection toward Snake.

[–]Egan_himself 42ポイント43ポイント  (10子コメント)

The whole boobs all up in your face thing bugged me for a bit but I love Quiet as a character a lot when we were on the battlefield together.

It was an interesting dynamic in terms of a buddy system being able to use her skills to make the game easier for me and that she covered you all the time. Not really going to focus on her being mostly nude too much but her facial expressions in cut scenes were beautiful, you could really get a feel for her just based on those.

When you are in the ACC and she looks at you and nods as if she says "Let's do this". It was a small thing that I always noticed.

[–]jacks0nX 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

Have you listened to Quiet's voice and mo-cap actress' version of the Quiet theme? It's beautiful, really.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbYcToMMLqI

[–]Mabans 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I guess it's subjective. Not a big fan of singers with "affected voices"

[–]Mabans 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

Which makes her overt sexualization all the more silly.

[–]Egan_himself 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Maybe but it's not something I am going to focus on and when I remember her as a character it won't be due to that.

[–]MogwaiInjustice 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Going through a lot of what is being said here I think we sometimes need to take a step back and have a deep breath when addressing criticism on anything that touches on social issues/gender politics/etc. We need to remember that criticism of these things is just that, criticism. It isn't condemnation or an attempt at censoring that work or future work.

Likewise we are very able to understand when criticism of other aspects of games are brought up. If people start to critique the level design or the art direction of a game we all understand that it is perfectly natural to have a discussion about what does and doesn't work and why. We can retort other people's opinions without reducing the discussion to a binary right and wrong, and that a game can still be amazing despite its shortcomings.

Quiet's depiction in MGSV is just another aspect of a game, like everything else, and there are people who feel strongly against it like Jim Sterling and we should try to understand his point of view. There are also people who very much like it and we should listen to why. What we shouldn't do is try to silence the opposing point of view simply because we don't agree with it. Even worse people shouldn't try to silence others on the matter for thinking it isn't even worth a discussion.

Edit: a word

[–]Cold-Hotman [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

She is a great optional character and really don't see any issue with the way she is being presented in the game, especially in a MGS game.

[–]War_Dyn27 31ポイント32ポイント  (12子コメント)

I know Jim said not to say 'Well it's Metal Gear', but this series is built on stupid contrived explanations for things they we all know were put in just because Kojima thought it would be cool. Like the Vampire guy from MGS 2 and 4, who is superstrong and seemingly immortal 'because nanomachines'.

[–]aRevin 16ポイント17ポイント  (2子コメント)

It really is Metal Gear. How can we ignore Snake's fat ass or Raiden going stark naked?

[–]mobiuszeroone [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Because Raiden wasn't wearing a jockstrap and the camera didn't focus on his balls swinging back and fourth in every cutscene. It's different to what they've done with Quiet.

[–]UQRAX 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

In the opening sequence of the game, we saw a flaming bullet-sucking man-gun on a flaming unicorn summoning a flaming flying whale to eat a helicopter.

If you're complaining about someone's fucking outfit being unrealistic in this game, you're complaining about something else entirely and are unable or unwilling to pinpoint what exactly it is you're complaining about.

[–]Boltty 119ポイント120ポイント  (64子コメント)

While Quiet is probably the most overt fanservice character in the series, it's true that gratuitous camera shots of boobs 'n' butts that add nothing have been a thing the entire series, it's just the outrage culture in gaming is stronger now compared to last decade to take notice.

I do dislike how she literally shoves her rear in your face inside the ACC if you look at her for more than 5 seconds. Feels dirty, man and I'm glad nobody is around to see.

[–]TheGreenDeer 82ポイント83ポイント  (8子コメント)

The B 'n' B squad in 4 were much "worse" than Quiet is.

[–]PrivateNickel 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

Weren't they supposed to be outright naked, but the censors won't allow it?

[–]Sureiyaa 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

When they took off their super-powered suits, yeah. Which makes sense.

[–]GravitasIsOverrated [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I keep seeing people saying this, but I don't get it. I find Quiet to be much more sexual than the white room scenes. B&B's white room poses were way less in-your-face than Quiet's "downward dog" or "lean over" poses. The sound effects were part of it too: While the gasps and such are definitely sexual, I thought they were intended to be unnerving rather than fan service. Add on the way that they never stop being dangerous and literally sexually assault snake to kill him, I always interpreted B&B without armour to be deliberately creepy, rather than fanservice-ish.

Also worth noting that the white room + camera or iPod is basically an easter egg that most players (myself included) will never hit.

[–]flipdark95 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, I haven't played that one, but I honestly think they all just escaped from a bondage facility.

[–]TheGreenDeer 38ポイント39ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well considering they're all PTSD Victims wearing skin tight clothing that you can make pose and dance to J-Pop is a little weird to say the least.

[–]For_Your_Krarma 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Those were the most erotic boss fights I've ever seen.

[–]gazamcnulty 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

In fairness they only do the poses if you wait long enough to go to the white world and look at them through the camera lense, so it's more of an Easter egg. And on top of that they were clothed. Quiet just shoves it in your face if you glance at her on the chopper.

[–]chrisrobin [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

To be fair Quiet is an entirely optional character that does nothing sexual other than be scantily clad if you never build up her bond.

[–]posao2 28ポイント29ポイント  (3子コメント)

it's just the outrage culture in gaming is stronger now compared to last decade to take notice.

The "outrage culture" has always been strong in gaming, but it was focused on the excessive violence.

Hell, I'm sure there were articles about Lara Croft's 4-polygon tits in their heyday.

But such things were dismissed by the general public with a "boys will be boys" attitude. Now that gaming audience is mostly (supposedly) adult, with more money and more polygons in the tits of course there is going to be more attention on beforementioned tits.

[–]Fyrus 24ポイント25ポイント  (2子コメント)

The gaming audience as a whole is adult, but this subreddit is probably mostly comprised of people under 20. I can tell you no adult would spend so much energy getting upset about most of the things this subreddit gets upset about.

[–]Mariawr [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

It's not her oversexualisation that upsets me. It's how shoehorned and out of character it is in contrast to the rest of her character and potrayal. I'm not gonna outrage over it, but I heavily dislike it and when brought up I WILL voice my opinion on it.

[–]emmanuelvr 26ポイント27ポイント  (10子コメント)

A few webms of that is what made a friend who doesn't play MGS or all that much video games play the game

I think people in this community are so interested in 'being taken seriously' that they forget sexuality is universal and most people don't give much fucks about sexualization of either gender and is prevalent in everything from pop music to movies to sports depending on the demographic.

[–]ranthun 19ポイント20ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thats something i agree with , a constant chasing of "being taken seriously" is gonna be a negative for videogame as an art form in the long run.

[–]TheFatalWound 7ポイント8ポイント  (18子コメント)

it's just the outrage culture in gaming is stronger now

/r/BestOfOutrageCulture/ if you don't believe him. It's absurd.

A decent amount of the posts are jokes taken out of context, but there are plenty of people who are dead serious.

[–]dustingunn 7ポイント8ポイント  (5子コメント)

Boy, that sub was exactly the opposite of what I assumed it would be... and not in a good way.

[–]r4chan-cancer 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

The irony is also how many of the users there are part of the outrage culture

[–]TheFatalWound 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

I barely even noticed until you mentioned it, really. I never really read the comments in that sub, just the posts it linked to.

Huh.

[–]insanelemon123 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

The creator of that sub themself is a plain out lunatic.

[–]maverck [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

sick of this discussion. it's just skin. it's just sex. who cares.
why are people so obsessed with hiding sexuality.
yes it's not realistic. who cares.
sex is such a bigger issue than it should be and i can't wait until humanity gets over it.

[–]killslash 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

So he thinks bioware RPGs scenes were nothing more than a bribery minigame reward?

I thought they had at least some narrative "weight" to them. They weren't thrown in there willy nilly.

[–]Mikey_MiG [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I wasn't a fan of that point either.

I think he might be referring to Dragon Age Origins, where you could give gifts to your companions to raise your relationship with them, but calling it a bribery minigame is an oversimplification. You still had to develop your relationships through dialogue. And in certain cases (like with Morrigan), raising your relationship too high could lock you out of sexy time.

And in the newest BioWare game, Inquisition, they distance themselves even further from cliche sexy female characters. There's only three female romance options, and one of them doesn't even have any sex scenes at all.

[–]LvL99OnionKnight 53ポイント54ポイント  (67子コメント)

How easy people forget that in nearly every single MGS there is nudity, for fucks sake there Johnny and riden are both nude in 1 & 2 with Johnny ass hanging out and Raiden full blown covering his junk with his hands. Where was the outrage then? Meryl was in her undies and the game flaunts her ass there was no outrage in fact IIRC on G4 they called it one of the hottest scenes in games when she was working out.

In metal gear solid 3 Eva was a femme fetal and they portrait her in a very more sexualized manner than quiet ever is. Showing skin is one thing the acts are another. Even The Boss shows under and side boob and no one threw a fit.

In Gun of the Patriots you take pictures of the BB girls if you tranquilize them and again no one threw fit.

Paz in bikini wear in peace Walker nope.

But once you get quiet and the dawn of political correctness has stated in if Kojima does it again people blow their load claiming this is a first and worse thing in the series when it's tame as fuck given all the nature the other games have done. So what if there is a three minute scene of her dancing in the water, shit you have play with her to get it and if you don't like her there is no reason to even play with her in the first place! Creating Drama where drama isn't needed.

[–]Hanwoodtractor 35ポイント36ポイント  (5子コメント)

You've missed the point. Jim didn't have a problem with her being sexualised it was the way Kojima tried to justify it as some strong, deep narrative device when in fact it's basically softcore porn. And it almost ruins her character by reducing her to eye candy despite her good characterisation.

[–]myfavoriteteamssuck 16ポイント17ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't agree it ruins her character, but Kojima should have never said a thing about why she was dressed like that and let people figure it out. His hint seemed to make it sound like it was going to be some mind-blowing backstory and thus it created the "this is it?" reaction.

You don't have to like Quiet to understand that it's futile to want to stand by your "problematic" creation and then tell people they'll accept it when they play it -- they never will and had no intention of being fair about it.

Personally, I think she's a great addition to MGS line-up of unique characters. While long-time fans of MGS love the deep and convoluted story, Kojima is inspired by Hollywood blockbusters and action films that pimp big dumb action (flaming whales?) and a brawny hero and sexy heroine.

He's making the action movies he's always wanted and it's understandable that they don't sell to everyone -- particularly people who want art-house film depth in everything.

I do think that Quiet isn't quite as memorable as The End, Psycho Mantis or Vamp but, because of the debate over her clothes, it seems that she's now the poster child for all Kojima's character designs which isn't necessarily true.

[–]hiefs4eva 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

when in fact it's basically softcore porn.

Have you ever actually seen softcore porn?

[–]gamelord12 45ポイント46ポイント  (38子コメント)

The difference is that this time Kojima claimed that he was not sexualizing a character for the sake of sexualizing her, which he was, and Jim Sterling even says that if that's what Kojima wanted to do, he should have just owned up to it instead of claiming that it's not what he wanted to do.

[–]jackpup 49ポイント50ポイント  (2子コメント)

Kojima didn't preemptively say, "I'm revealing this character, and listen she's naked because of plot." He just revealed her with no additional comment at E3 2013. It was the gaming press who was up in arms about her appearance, as well as that posable action figure.

The reveal was not "before you say anything about my sexy character, let me explain", it just was what it was. The negative press was a reaction, and his statement about the secret reason why she's naked was a reaction to their reaction. To what degree his arm was twisted by Konami and PR, I don't know, but I feel as though if the reaction were neutral or positive, things would just run their course and he wouldn't have had to "explain himself".

That being said, he said what he said and now we know the secret reason. It's not as compelling as we hoped, which is why people are angry again. She has an outfit with more clothes, so that negates the necessity of the skimpy default one. However, comparing her to other characters within the realm of "Metal Gear" logic is silly.

Can you imagine the negative reaction of Western gaming press if Kojima said, "Listen, I know you're upset about Quiet's skimpy appearance, but it's my game and I'm making a sexy character. I'm owning it. There is a reason why she has to be exposed, but it's not very compelling."? Do you think that's a viable move? I think it's a case of his vision not meshing with our values, and he just played it off the best way possible. Now that we know the truth, people see his statement as disingenuous, which it was, but I don't think it's for the reasons that Jim asserts.

[–]CorAutMors 19ポイント20ポイント  (1子コメント)

We can just look at how well the be upfront worked for Dragon's Crown

cries of sexism were met with a response of 'I oversexualize all character, male and female, because thats what I enjoy'

and that just led to even stronger cries of sexism and how wrong his opinion or idea of art is

its a lose-lose game

[–]Cleverly_Clearly [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Responding at all only prolongs it. Telling them to fuck off just makes them angrier. Telling them you'll fix it means they'll come back and complain about something else you did.

[–]retsuseiba 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

I didn't watch the video due to spoilers, but did Jim mention Kojima saying that he wanted to make Quiet sexier for the cosplayers and to sell more figurines? Because that sounds a lot like what you're suggesting Kojima should've done. And he said that before the infamous "ashemed of your words and deeds" series of tweets, which is all people seem to remember.

[–]Dawknight 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Kojima claimed that he was not sexualizing a character for the sake of sexualizing her

Do you have a source for that?

[–]ifandbut 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2013/09/10/hideo-kojima-talks-more-quiet-you-will-feel-ashamed-of-your-words-deeds-when-recognizing-the-reason-for-her-exposure/

The exact quote is "once you recognize the secret reason for her exposure, you will feel ashamed of your words & deeds." The reason for her exposure is photosynthesis and parasites 'son'.

[–]DeeDoubs 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe if he'd gotten to finish the game he wanted (which yeah, it was overdue and overbudget), he could have lived up to that statement.

[–]gamelord12 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's in the very video that you're commenting on; he shows an article quoting Kojima.

[–]Jdix 12ポイント13ポイント  (8子コメント)

The difference here is context to the themes, setting, and story. Eva is very excusable for how she is portrayed because MGS 3 is supposed to an homage to spy movies of the 1960s. If you've ever seen a James Bond movie from the 60s you can see how woman are portrayed visually. It fits with what they are trying to achieve. In MGSV, a game that is supposed to showcase the horrors of war and the downfall of soldiers and the like I think it would make more sense if she was disfigured in someway when she shows her skin. Keep her sexy but how about a few Spoiler instead of just making her naked. There were a lot of missed opportunities with her character, just like the rest of the game

[–]LvL99OnionKnight 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

Every game of Metal Gear is supposed to tell you about the Horrors of War that what metal gear is about there has never been a PRO war metal gear. The whole game theme is having pain but not having a mark to show it. It would go against the theme of 5 for her having a physical mark and showing it. Her pain is that she will never speak, in multiple cut scenes it shows how much she respects Venom and admires him but will never be able to speak about it. She does her looks she does her dance in order to signify something that she cant speak.

Before she became a skull unit she has a ton of dialog then she has five lines after her skulls transformation.

[–]Jdix [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

The whole game theme is having pain but not having a mark to show it

Snake is missing an arm and has a giant piece of debris protruding from his head.

Khaz is missing an arm and a leg.

Skullface has severely burned skin.

They all have pain and it is visibly shown.

[–]graciliano 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just because there is in other games doesn't make people obligated to like it. Also, a lot of fans dislike the Beauty and the Beast Unit already.

The main thing that bummed people is that in tweets, interviews and such Kojima gave completely different expectations of the character to them. They were expecting fully realized reasons for her sexyness. If his intent was more clear, then there would be much less controversy.

In fact, a lot of people are disappointed with the game in general because they had different expectations based on trailers and previews.

[–]genoY2K 10ポイント11ポイント  (13子コメント)

I'm not sure how many you have played through the game, but I thought I'd try and attempt to let you know, or how the game explains it at least, why she wears what she wears. Spoilers ahead.

You see, at the start of the game, in the hospital you wake up in, you actually see Quiet. She is sent there to kill you. Believe it or not, the first time you meet her she is actually in a full on solider outfit (the one you unlock pretty late into the game). Not moments after meeting her, and her failing to kill you, she is set on fire. I'm not sure what exactly it contains, but a glass bottle is thrown at her and covers her in some flammable liquid (the game zooms in on the flammable icon on the bottle). She is then lit ablaze and falls out a window in the commotion; the window is a couple floors up, so she's presumably dead, or not far from it at this point. Now I hear you ask, "how can that be when she's in the game as a buddy?", well the game goes into a lot of detail about what keeps her alive, not to mention that very same thing is the reasoning behind her attire.

So a major plot point of the game has to do with parasites, there are different types of parasite. One specific type of parasite was used to stop Quiet from dying and explains how she does what she does. These parasites live on the outside of her body. These parasite breath for her, drink for her, and feed her via photosyntheses. The parasites also heal her wounds, and they allow her to do all the amazing abilities she has. The game explains that if she was to wear a uniform (much like what she wore at the start of the game before her little accident), she'd suffocate.

Of course, having said all that, yes she probably could have been designed differently but other than like 3 scenes (dancing in the rain, her moving about in the ACC(Aerial Command Center), and I think there's a scene in her jail cell), there really isn't that much in the game that uses her design even slightly in a sexual manner. And even then you have to raise your bond with her before you can even access some of the scenes (that includes the stuff on the ACC.).

I do recall Jim mentioning something about The End being photosynthetic in MGS 3 and yet he doesn't go nude, but I don't think The End was treated with the same parasites as Quiet was. I mean you can hear The End heavily breathing during your fight with him and you can actually use the directional mic to determine where he is because of his breathing. MGS V explicitly states that's the reason Quiet wears what she wears.

Either way, everyone has their own opinions and critiques, and Jim's is a valid one, as is everyone else's.

[–]Faps_With_Fury 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I do recall Jim mentioning something about The End being photosynthetic in MGS 3 and yet he doesn't go nude, but I don't think The End was treated with the same parasites as Quiet was. I mean you can hear The End heavily breathing during your fight with him and you can actually use the directional mic to determine where he is because of his breathing. MGS V explicitly states that's the reason Quiet wears what she wears.

The End was retconned. MGSV uses the parasites to explain the powers of the Cobra Unit from MGS3. The End's suit is what made him photosynthetic in that game but it was changed to also include the parasites to explain the powers of the Cobras. I think they mention The Fear in MGSV too but I don't exactly remember.

[–]dsiOneBAN2 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Code Talker also uses photosynthesis.

Note that The End and Code Talker are nice and bald, skin facing the sun.

[–]SillyPuppyXS 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

And lungs. Don't forget lungs.

[–]Grumbledock 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Put simply there's nothing wrong with sexy men and women in games, heck it would be great if more female characters were allowed to have a sexuality of their own rather then being obvious fanservice all the way.

Quiet is simply to much and in your face all the time, it gets rather annoying and immature, compare her to Triss, Yennefer or even Christmas in the Witcher 3. That game has both the fanservice in every brothel but also makes it obvious you're just there for a pair of nice tilts. Or, you can go the loan way, get to know the characters and have a relationship with them. In this there are sexualisering encounters on somewhat equal terms where both contribute and act, it's natural in a way. Witcher 3 manages to deliver full nudity without making a ruckus because it does it good, MGS V does scantily clad women and rightfully what called out on it since it adds nothing, serves no purpose. Do it right and it's more then welcome though.

[–]jlitwinka 14ポイント15ポイント  (23子コメント)

I think part of the problem is that it's such a weird sexualization. Her personality is not at all sexual outside of the rain and shower scenes. Her personality does not seem sexual, it would be one thing if the character fully embraced it and was sexually empowered, but she doesn't, so it just comes across weird and forced.

A large part of me wonders if Quiet's sexualization was somehow mandated by Konami. I know it's an easy excuse, and probably not the case. But otherwise it just seems like two separate characters were slapped together into Quiet's current role.

[–]WaltzForLilly 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

Weird sexualization?! Kojima would never do anything like that!

[–]Cataphract1014 27ポイント28ポイント  (10子コメント)

A large part of me wonders if Quiet's sexualization was somehow mandated by Konami. I know it's an easy excuse, and probably not the case.

Have you played a metal gear game before? Stupid nudity and fan service are in every single one of the MGSes. It is because Kojima likes it.

Hell in the prologue you get close ups of the one dudes butt crack constantly.

[–]jlitwinka 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yes, but it's the weird disconnect between Quiet's sexualization and her character that seems off to me. Not that she is sexualized.

[–]hiefs4eva 20ポイント21ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's actually pretty standard.

See MGS4. For crying out loud you could make them dance and jiggle.

[–]GravitasIsOverrated 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

To be fair, that's both far more tame than Quiet and not something that you would be expected to find during normal gameplay. I played through twice, non-fatal the second time, and never saw the white room. For me, at least, that's the big difference. B&B had a fan service-ish easter egg, but it was pretty much invisible compared to the level of in-your-face fan service that MGSV has.

[–]MoldyDinosaur 8ポイント9ポイント  (6子コメント)

I doubt Konami had anything to do with it.

[–]cloud7928 13ポイント14ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yeah, considering the B&B unit in 4 was "worse" than Quiet. Konami most definitely had no hand in this.

[–]GravitasIsOverrated 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Wait, how is B&B worse? I thought it was pretty tame compared to this.

[–]cloud7928 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Just because they have a full suit on in that white room instead of ripped clothes? Everything you can do in there, the sound effects and their reactions is way more sexualized than everything Quiet does in the whole game.

[–]GravitasIsOverrated 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Really? I find Quiet to be much more sexual than the white room scenes. The clothing is part of that, but it's also way less in-your-face than Quiet's "downward dog" or "lean over" poses. Funny that you mention the sound effects - I think that's another reason why I don't feel that way about those scenes: While the gasps and such are definitely sexual, I thought they were intended to be creepy/unnerving rather than fan service.

Also worth noting that the white room is basically an easter egg that most players (myself included) will never hit, and most won't think to break out the camera or iPod for it either.

[–]hiefs4eva 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think the majority of people bitching about this have never touched an MGS game ever.

It's like when /r/games gets all angry about something on a console game that you know they've never played.

[–]we_are_sex_bobomb 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's my issue too. She is an interesting character and also very helpful from a gameplay perspective. Her relationship with Boss seems platonic (although I've only just started chapter 2)

There's really nothing gained from her constant fan service.

BUT the weirdest part for me is that the sexual tensions is never addressed within the game world. She is practically naked on a base full of mostly male mercenaries and outlaws in the 1980s. The fact that no one in the game seems to notice or care about this sensual aspect of her character makes it feel even weirder, like it only exists for the titilation of the player.

If they wanted to make her sexuality a key part of her character, why is everyone in the game so eerily oblivious to it?

Why does her sexuality as a character feel so irrelevant, but so prominant?

[–]hollowcrown51 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

You hear soldiers in the overworld talking about Quiet often. In Afghanistan they're like "She's nearly naked, must not be from around here". So it is addressed by NPCs.

[–]Fyrus 26ポイント27ポイント  (151子コメント)

I think it's pretty ignorant to say that these sort of things make gaming look stupid. As if movies and music and everything else don't use sex to sell things. And frankly, I think most people having an issue with Quiet are just projecting their own issues with sexuality onto the game. If seeing a women in skimpy clothing makes you uncomfortable, I think that says more about you than the game.

What's even funnier is that Quiet's sexual appeal isn't mentioned at all in the game. She's treated as an equal, as someone just as dangerous and capable as Big Boss is. Yet you people can't look past her boobs. That's telling.

[–]Afro-Ninja 76ポイント77ポイント  (41子コメント)

It's hard to look past when the camera literally puts it front and center. It's not the subject; it's the way it's handled.

[–]we_are_sex_bobomb 25ポイント26ポイント  (31子コメント)

That's kind of an easy way out though. Sexuality is an important part of being human. You can't just dangle an attractive half-naked woman in front of us, say nothing about it, and then act like you're being subversive. Yeah I noticed, because I'm a straight man with millions of years of evolution telling me to notice. What's the point?

If the game wants to introduce the aspect of sexuality, it needs to handle it properly. Instead it pretends it's not there while snickering and winking at you.

[–]NotJohnStamos 15ポイント16ポイント  (3子コメント)

Look, I have no issue with sexuality. I've not once complained about Ivy's shrinking outfit in every sequel of Soul Calibur, my favorite game. I enjoy movies that have seduction. The scenes in Witcher haven't bothered me. Hell all of the of previous MGS games never irked me, even The BDSM Squad in 4.

Just something about Quiet is so... I don't know. I just cringe when I see it. I can't explain exactly why. Maybe its just how much she's around. Or the actions. Maybe its because she doesn't have a voice so we are left with no context. Its conflicting and odd.

[–]ObjectiveTits 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

You know what I think that's it. You hear about sexual agency and the difference between posing and being posed but with Quiet it's like taking that mentality to a whole other level. She doesn't have any self aware dialogue about her outfit or doing yoga or snappy come backs when you feel like the camera has lingered, it's just a tad too voyeuristic for me.

[–]tfaddy 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

You're right about how the characters pass her off as an equal but

yep you people can't look past her boobs

Let's be honest here, the game has several moments where the camera intentionally zooms in on her ass, puts her tits in center of a shot and has scenes such as that shower scene, where the MB staff clearly do sexualize her, in addition to a scene I shouldn't mention because spoilers

[–]Fyrus 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

And? The series has also featured a naked pretty-boy doing cartwheels, a vampire with a dick-dagger, and many other little scenes like that. Suddenly someone shows up with some tits and everyone loses their minds. Personally, I think the lewd comments from MB staff are meant to represent those idiots who can't think past their dick.

[–]tfaddy 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hey, I don't disagree with you, I'm just pointing out that there's a bit more than just quiet being in some odd clothing, I like MGS for these odd quirks

[–]Hanwoodtractor 9ポイント10ポイント  (20子コメント)

Like many others here you've missed the point of the video. It's not the fact that she's sexualised that is the problem, hell Jim even points to that bikini zombie game as an example of sexualisation that doesn't try to pass itself off as something more than sexy ladies in bikinis. The problem is the lazy justification for it and trying to sell Quiet's design for something other than the sexualisation it is.

[–]ilovezam 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I agree that the justification Kojima gave was really stupid and all, but I don't think he would have felt compelled to even give any reason at all if the Internet didn't decide to get up in arms about it to begin with, which leads us back to OP's point

[–]Maymaytics 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

"This sniper is an exhibitionist" boom done. Although given it's Kojima I wonder if the justification is part of the joke.

[–]JackDT [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

If anyone missed it, the Quiet shower scene using Quiet's animations on Ocelot is hilarious. I can't believe how well the engine maps one character's face to another!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcyygfXIfzE

[–]Dawknight 14ポイント15ポイント  (44子コメント)

I get that there are a lot of newcomers to the series with MGS5.... but Sexuality was always part of the metal gear games, for all gender..

[–]mhurley187 44ポイント45ポイント  (9子コメント)

You're missing the point entirely. Raiden might be naked for a significant part of MGS 2, but the presentation/cinematography is designed to make the player feel embarrassed and exposed. Nudity does not equal sexuality. Raiden doesn't stretch and pose suggestively in front of the camera while he's nude like Quiet does. In all of the examples you posted of men, none of them are just nude for nude's sake. The closest thing the series has to male sexuality is Vamp's dick knife, but that is done to make him seem creepy and not to arouse the player like with Quiet.

I keep seeing this "metal gear sexualizes everyone equally" sentiment pop up in /r/mgs, and it's so ridiculous that I question if we're even playing the same series. I think it stems from the fact that diehard fans (of which I am one) of the series don't want to admit that there are serious issues with something they love so much. What about the "boob cam" in MGS 3 or the way the bosses suggestively crawl towards you in MGS 4? The narrative significance of these instances can be argued, but that doesn't change the fact that there are no male corrolaries.

[–]Gundato [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It is your standard false equivalence. It is the same reason why Red Sonja apparently has a perfectly reasonable costume (the quintessential chainmail bikini): Because Conan is often depicted in a loincloth and not much more.

That being said, there is credibility to the argument that everything is sexualized. It is just that the vast majority of it is is about the male power fantasy kind of sexualization. Guys are in skintight outfits, but they tend to be ken dolls with beautifully sculpted muscles. And women tend to have big boobs and not much covering them. Also, half the Metal Gears have giant wang-like guns.

Because yes, you stare at Snake's tight ass, but he is in a suit that accentuates his strength and masculinity, whereas Sniper Wolf/EVA/whatever are in suits that emphasize their cleavage and attractiveness. Similarly, you rarely (I would daresay never, but I am sure there is an exception) get the actual zoom-in on dude ass (outside of humor), whereas it is an ongoing "easter egg" that pushing buttons during cutscenes will focus on female asses and breasts. Hell, on higher difficulty settings, taking advantage of the health/mental state boost from doing that was a VERY smart move in MGS4.

And Vamp, much like Volgin/Raikov, feels more like "gay people are disgusting and funny".

All that being said, Peacewalker, for its faults, was a step forward in a lot of aspects. Strangelove was gay and perfectly normal (although, there were heavy implications of another character "fixing" her). Paz, while squicky at times, was mostly only sexualized under very specific circumstances (the "dates" and the "easter eggs"), and so forth.

And, of course, The Boss is one of the stronger female characters in modern gaming. Admittedly, I have been starting to wonder if MGS3 wasn't Kojima's Empire Strikes Back. Because it was VERY different from every other MGS game and tended to have much more balanced portrayals of just about everyone. And, if memory serves, that was during one of Kojima's "I don't want to do Metal Gear" periods.

[–]Dawknight 13ポイント14ポイント  (6子コメント)

Raiden doesn't stretch and pose suggestively in front of the camera while he's nude

Yeah... he just has that jump animation that feels like it was designed for this part the whole time.

You might not see it because you're not into it...

But I have a close female friend that is a huge MGS fan (hell she collected all dog-tags in mgs2) that would disagree with that... she was literally in love with snake's ass.

You're just looking at being offended, if you disagree with kojima/metal gear games about how they handle sexuality. Then don't buy their product. You have a vote to cast against stuff that you disagree with, vote with your wallet. Because you're obviously not the target demographic.

edit : And if you stop to think about it... there's never been a more sexualized character than Raiden...

Reverse the role : If raiden was a girl.... running around fully nude with a playable character... Having his/her* genitals grabed multiple times...*

The fact that he is a playable character makes getting the "camera angle that you want" so much easier, and he is wearing a super-tight body suit... believe it or not, girls like that.

[–]lolpancakeslol 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

  1. Raiden's cartwheel is his signature move.

  2. It's the player making him do that, he isn't doing it strictly to please you.

  3. Even if Raiden were being sexualized, this example is not even close the excessive ass and tit shots from Quiet.

Kojima needs to own up to it. Just say you like tits and ass, but don't give us this half assed story excuse.

I love me some boobs, I wish he would just say he does too.

[–]Sergnb 28ポイント29ポイント  (16子コメント)

The irritating point here is that for some reason kojima decided he had to justify the sexuality for quiet in this game and "shut people complaining up" when he could've just said "she is naked because she is naked and I like it, deal with it" and everybody (except a few people who werent playing the game to begin with anyway) would be fine with it.

I'm a huge MGS and Kojima fan and I'll defend him to my grave but to be honest Quiet's sexuality felt really forced. As in its justification, not the fact that it was there. I'm fine with nudity in MGS games, it's part of their campy appeal, but Quiet felt slimey for some reason.

[–]WilDMousE 38ポイント39ポイント  (6子コメント)

No, people would still be outraged just like people got outraged for the introduction of an arabic character on SF-V

[–]aRevin 13ポイント14ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that if Kojima literally said "she is naked because she is naked and I like it, deal with it", people would get offended.

If he said nothing and there was no reason for Quiet to dress the way she does in the storyline, people would also complain.

Personally I think his approach is the best.

[–]WilDMousE 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

And then journalists bloggers, would say "Hideo kojima is a mysoginist" and create a fucking shitstorm out of nothing, now i wanna play MGSV more than before (except for the cut content :c) but i'd need to play all the mgs saga in the first place (which i suck at, bought legacy collection and sucked hard at being a stealthy player, will try getting into it in december probably =P)

[–]WindsAndWords 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think it was the huge amount of outrage the media threw at him so he made that statement.

I felt like if no one had said anything about it Kojima wouldn't have said anything about it.

[–]bradamantium92 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

Almost all of the pictures in that image are done as complete jokes. One's not even from the game, it's from a joke movie in MGS3: Subsistence. And I don't see how, in a million years, an old man kissing his "brother" on the cheek counts as sexualizing a dude.

There's a point in a couple of them - the Snakes fighting shirtless on top of Metal Gear, sure, Vamp's absolutely sexualized as part of his character. But at least with the former the camera isn't lingering on their rippling abs or whatever at every opportunity, and in the latter it's supported by the traits and personality of the character.

[–]bakkoi [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Almost all of the pictures in that image are done as complete jokes.

And yet if they were all switched to female characters, they'd be called out for sexualizing.

[–]Dawknight 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah I didn't make that picture. I would have used better exemples if it was me, but didn't have the time.

But anyone who played the games will know.

[–]Mordenn 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

Did you even watch the video? The problem isn't that she's sexualized, as you said that's par for the course in MGS. The problem is that Kojima attempted to justify it within story with a flimsy excuse and sell it as a 'deconstruction' of sexualized women in games instead of just admitting she dresses like that because it's visually appealing. It causes the same uncomfortable dissonance for me that the B&B squad did in MGS4, where they're supposedly war-torn, guilt-wracked PTSD survivors and yet you can make them dance to j-pop and do photoshoots in their boss fights. The fanservice isn't in service to the character like it is in games like Bayonetta, it's completely contradictory to it.

[–]VarietyGamingChannel 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

it's completely contradictory to it.

Fire Whales are cool though. They make narrative sense. No need to justify that with skin breathing.

[–]Mordenn 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Hey, at least the whale fits the Moby Dick theme they start during the prologue.

[–]DrChowder 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

...has anyone here finished Quiet's story? I feel like a lot of the criticism would die down, her conclusion was fantastic I think.

Edit: I'll take the downvotes, but I'd encourage anyone that doesn't care about being spoiled to check out her final mission. I'm not defending her appearance, but I think the meaning behind her silence and her actual character are fantastic, and fully put into context via the final mission of her story.

I'm just getting the feeling that everyone sees the entirety of her characterization as her appearance, which is no small deal of course. Her appearance and its reasoning are silly, but her characterization is much more. This is mostly seen pretty late into a 40+ longneck story, so I don't think many people have really seen her whole story.

[–]Rekthor 12ポイント13ポイント  (9子コメント)

What I don't understand at all is how the hell did Kojima think that his justification for Quiet's appearance would look like anything less than what it is? It's a lazy and contrived (yet somehow, still overwrought, as is the staple of MGS writing) post hoc rationalization for Kojima's own personal pleasure. Even though I think his writing skills are on par with a horny fourteen year old locked in an isolation chamber his entire life, I like to think that Hideo is intelligent enough that he could see right through something that paltry. If I gave any degree of a damn about his series I might be insulted, given that there aren't many more ways to take this than either "Kojima is genuinely stupid" (which I don't believe) or "Kojima thinks you're all genuinely stupid."

He knows what Quiet is and what she was supposed to be; there is no possible way that he doesn't know. She's two steps shy of a literal trophy. And putting her in the game in her current state, where she is essentially a walking fourth-wall break with absolutely no class or subtlety, is a severe detriment to his game's storytelling power and immersion factor.

[–]yumcake 31ポイント32ポイント  (8子コメント)

I'm not saying it's right, but Kojima comes from Japan.

They have a... different way of handling sexuality in their media. Looking at Quiet from a western perspective, yeah she sticks out like a sore thumb, all of the complaints are valid. Looking at the same character in the context of all the other stuff you see coming out of Japan, it doesn't even rate a mention, it's super tame. It's not even the only one to use human photosynthesis as a reason to take off clothes, Knights of Sidonia already did it a few years ago (though I think they were more tasteful about it).

If there's one characteristic about Kojima that defines his work, it's not that his ideas are especially outlandish or innovative in comparison to his peers, it's that he gets his way. He has a specific vision for his work, and he has the force of will to make sure it comes out exactly the way he wants it. At this level of AAA development, there's always a ton of people, including bosses, telling the lead developers "No, you can't do that, and here's a long list of reasons why", and Kojima is notable for being able to doggedly fight these people off to realize a highly personalized game in spite of the many people involved. For better or worse, few games at this budget level manage to maintain a single person's vision all the way through to release.

So with regard to Quiet's depiction...it's just Kojima being Kojima in a way that only Kojima can be.

EDIT:

To elaborate my feelings on the depiction of Quiet...I think this is really just symptomatic of a greater trend in Japanese media. Audiences are too forgiving of willfull and blatant usage of tropes. I enjoyed shounen-style anime when I was younger, it was definitely cool to see young teenagers getting powerful and depicting wish-fulfillments of power and "harems". But I've aged, while that industry is still very reluctant to age with me. Possibly due to the problem of high unemployment in Japan leading to a lot of young men who are stuck living off of their parents, and become otakus that never left home to mature into adults. Thus the industry has a large audience of high-consumption adult customers whose tastes haven't evolved over time as they grew older, and as such this industry has much less pressure to keep evolving the kinds of themes they present. This industry's heaviest spenders are going through a state of arrested development, and that influence is transferring to the producers of content for that industry.

For a constrasting example, I'm sure you're all familiar with the "Dadification" of games in the west, where the protagonist is now in charge of protecting little sisters, or Ellie, or Elizabeth, etc. It's due in part to the developers growing older and wanting to create works that represent in part the new feelings they're facing as parents. They're not at an age where they're trying to "get the girl" or "come of age". At this point in their lives they're already "of age" in a successful career path, and they've already married and "gotten the girl", and now they're starting to fantasize about being a good parent. Sexy girls are still sexy even to older married men, only now that older man now occasionally worries about his daughter lacking inspirational female characters that are more than just their sexual appeal. The average age of gamers continues to rise and right now the average gamer is probably a young parent with a job and responsibilities. Though there are still definitely games that are made specifically to target kids/teenagers, the western game industry has been growing to ALSO include a lot of content targeting older customers.

So with regard to Quiet, she's just "fan-service". It's extremely common for japanese media to break from the natural evolution of a world/story in order to squeeze in a sequence that is just to titillate and appease the fans without really progressing the story or building the world. Fan-service typically comes in either Action or Sexual flavors. Continuing to use MGS as an example: The series includes insane over-the-top action sequences that look cool...but also break the cohesion of the world's rules. For example, Solid Snake is kind of a worthless piece of shit being just a regular soldier firing small-arms, and running and crawling around on the ground, while he's contemporary with characters like vampires, invincible giants, soldiers whose fortune magic makes them immune to gunfire, ultra-agile cyber ninjas that can battle 2 story military mechas in melee combat. When the game gives these other characters a chance to do ultra-crazy feats of power to make them seem cool and titillate the fans...it's also undermining the idea that Solid Snake could credibly stand toe-to-toe with them, making your in-game victories over these overpowered characters seem more and more like acts of extreme deus ex machina or blatant Bond Villain Stupidity, where they grossly underutilize their abilities only to allow oppportunities for Snake's incredibly limited abilities to overcome them. That's action fan-service that looks cool, but ultimately makes the world less consistent, less real. I'm not saying the MGS's military theme must have strict adherence to real-world physics, that's excessively constraining on the imagination. Rather a story is made stronger and more immersive when the fictional breaks from real-world physics remain consistently applied throughout the story. Immersion is broken when the audience sees a major character severely injured by a cutscene bullet even though these characters have already survived being shot with hundreds of regular bullets.

As for Quiet, she's the vehicle for sexual fan-service. If she was able to wear clothes like a normal human being, then the focus would not be on her tits and ass, instead other characteristics would need to be offered up to keep up the audience's interest. Her lack of clothing is distracting and immersion breaking and ultimately serves to undermine the realism of this world's fiction. But the sexual fanservice is still left in there to please a less discerning audience that prizes the sexual thrill above the immersiveness of the tale being told.

There ARE examples in Japanese media of more mature stories that have resisted the perceived pressure of needing to offer up fan-service in order to retain interest (like say, Honey & Clover), the problem is that this kind of storytelling is growing so slowly. I hate to compare cultures directly, but it's hard to shine a light on this issue without a contrast. In the west, instead of the inconsequential high fantasy of the forces of good overcoming the forces of evil, the most popular fantasy story we've got going on right now is Game of Thrones, in which the author doesn't provide characters with plot armor, avoids writing Mary Sues, and the events of plot progress organically along the groundwork of personalities and forces that have been set in motion, rather than allowing deus ex machina interfere constantly to ensure the happiest of outcomes in all circumstance. Even Harry Potter, which starts out appealing to children/teenagers, over the years the characters aged, and the atmosphere of the story has matured alongside it's readers. Similarly, popular works like 24, Battlestar Galactica, Walking Dead, The Road, etc. demonstrate that there are audiences that enjoy seeing shows where consequences follow actions and although it's too much to expect these works to be free of tropes, the audiences still enjoy the surprise of seeing these tropes being broken by writers that are consciously taking efforts to avoid falling into the trap of these tropes. Unfortunately it seems like Japanese media doesn't have the same pressure from it's audiences to buck their tropes, and it's evolution is slowed as a result.

I still enjoy Japanese media obviously, that's why I keep watching. It's so creative in other ways that it's hard to stay away. However, at the same time I think that some of it's potential is being wasted by not marrying these fantastical ideas to more mature writing.

[–]Naniwasopro 25ポイント26ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm not saying it's right, but Kojima comes from Japan.

Japan loves to sexualize everything. They even turned the Cthulhu mythos into cute anime girls.

[–]lordsmish 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Hey that was a good anime

[–]Naniwasopro 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

It was OK in my book.

[–]lordsmish 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks to you i just found out there was a second series so thank you.

[–]Ark_Inek 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's also worth noting that Kojima knows of Knights of Sidonia and according to the Wikipedia page for it, he praised it.

[–]DeeDoubs 7ポイント8ポイント  (10子コメント)

Is anyone really even impacted by this kind of PG sexuality anymore? People screech about this kind of thing louder all the time it seems in the context of video games, but it's still so tame compared to what you get in your typical Bond film (which I'll remind everyone that the series historically borrows from heavily). We live in an age where extremely niche and hardcore pornography is a click away at any given time and people are really getting critical about some sideboob in the action game equivalent to James Bond... it just strikes me as a little absurd.

[–]cookie_steez 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think Jim's point here is that the issue he's tackling is not that of showing skin or sexualizing a female protagonist, but rather Kojima's side-stepping of the issue. Quiet is in no way an "antithesis" to stereotypically exposed female characters in games, she's just more of the same. For some reason, however, that seems hard to admit. At least that's what I took from it.

[–]UnoriginalRhetoric 14ポイント15ポイント  (2子コメント)

Who is screeching about the sexuality?

Jim isn't. No one in here is. Who are you addressing?

[–]Thetravelingboy 7ポイント8ポイント  (6子コメント)

Some people like sex, some people like videogames. Some people like sex in their videogames.

The same thing happens in movies, comics, music, etc. Basically, almost all forms of entertainment use sex appeal in some way.

The people fighting sexualization in videogames (not necessarily Jim, since his argument is a bit more nuanced) are fighting a losing battle, because they're fighting human nature.

The real discussion should be around quality, not violence or sexual content.

[–]RAINBOW_DILDO 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

That's exactly what Jim was saying. It's fine for video games to be sexualized. However, they should be up front about it and not hide the perversion behind some bullshit excuses like Kojima's. In another way, that sort of explaining-away is only helping to contribute to "Puritanical" mindsets towards human sexuality by implying that sexualization needs to be rationalized in order to be acceptable.

[–]Thetravelingboy 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

Not quite, because he did make the staple arguments against Quiet having her tits out as a sniper. In a universe where a bunch of crazy sci fi things are happening THAT is what broke his immersion (or what he thought would), which puts the onus on him.

If your immersion is broken by sexy things then you shouldn't buy sexy games. That's a personal preference, not the developer's problem, unless we're talking sales or marketing.

The same thing would apply if an individual dislikes violence. Developers shouldn't be forced to make no games with violence because some people don't like it, nor should they even feel the need to explain it away in the first place.

Edit: I'd also shy away from calling it perversion. Although, from context it's obvious you didn't mean it that way.

[–]darksier 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

So here's my crackpot theory! The uniform unlock is a subtle self assessment. Depending on your internal reasoning of dropping resources (basically quadrupling her deployment cost) into it and then equipping it on her, you might be making a statement. Basically the worst case scenario is if the internal voice stated 'put this uniform on because your comfort and lack of shame in your body is making me uncomfortable'

This popped into my head when one of my friends unlocked it and said ' finally something to cover her' And setting how Kojima likes meta narrative...always a possibly it's just one of those things he counted on.

[–]Mordenn 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's assuming Quiet wears the outfit because she's expressing comfort and lack of shame in her body, which isn't the case the narrative presents at all. She wears it because she has to because of her burns, which is why before she's burnt she wears a pretty standard XOF uniform.

[–]LibrarianOfBabel 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I have her wear the XOF uniform because I like the design of the costume over her bikini. Not really because she makes me uncomfortable.

[–]MoldyDinosaur 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Quiet's nudity is not out of choice though. So your idea is rubbish.

[–]Tinybonehands 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know why everyone on reddit has to get riled up any time someone criticises something they enjoy. Quiet's portrayal in the game is pretty blatantly sexist and I would feel embarrassed if someone viewed the stuff happening in the chopper while I was playing. I can still enjoy the game however and there are interesting parts to Quiet's character I enjoyed. Part of appreciating something is being able to recognise its faults.

[–]CountingCats 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think Jim was fairly on point with this. His tone was perfect and didn't stink of 'the outrage culture' we're used to now from the US when it comes to media criticism.

Yes, these kinds of provocative shots and portrayals of women have been present in the Mgs franchise before but I think the game industry has grown up a bit since then.

[–]rexshen 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

What I find funny about all this is people trying to defend Quiet clearly aren't listening to the argument. Jim didn't say Quiet being sexualized is bullshit. He said the reason she is dressed like that is dumb and they should have just said she was designed like that for fanservice instead of covering up with this "breathes though her skin" nonsense.

[–]Rednakin 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Jim makes it sound like there's something to be ashamed of when it comes to sexuality. It's ridiculous. "Pervert" is a word only used seriously by warped asocial teenagers who think they live in Hollywood land. If you actually spoke to girls, maybe you would know that they aren't as conservative as you thought.

Jim's entire point about The End's camouflage suit is jumping the shark since The End is in a woodland forest where he needs the suit in order to stay hidden, but since skin easily blends in with the cliffs of Afghanistan, Quiet doesn't need to be covered up. Maybe the more skin they show, the more effectively they breathe? Quiet was found in Afghanistan sniping on a church. She has holes in her pantyhose anyway, It's not like she went outside in that suit. Maybe she wore something less revealing and her clothes just eroded away during her wilderness survival.

If this is somehow a sexist issue, there's way more naked dudes or dudes in skin tight clothing, so the tally points towards men being exploited.

[–]Gundato [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Not sure how much people care, but this may be worth a quick read (or just understand the title):

http://www.avclub.com/article/if-you-return-jedi-hate-ewoks-you-understand-femin-224765

Just because people see problems with something doesn't mean they don't like it. A game/whatever can have something problematic/"problematic" and still be otherwise enjoyable. Case in point: The Ewoks.