4670
4671

There's a large Donald Trump piñata at a Mexican festival in my city. (i.imgur.com)

AnneFranc が 投稿

並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A
あなたは単独のコメントのスレッドを見ています。

残りのコメントをみる →

[–]tackthiratrix 152ポイント153ポイント  (226子コメント)

Donald trump is against illegal immigration, not immigration in general. He believes anyone can get their citizenship as long as they do it the legal way. I don't get why people have so much heart for illegals. I get that they're people too and even families, but at the end of the day it's illegal.

I'll accept the hate now...

[–]Mistercaca 199ポイント200ポイント  (81子コメント)

I see what your saying but he's labeling illegals as bad people. That's the problem. He treats the Mexican community as if they are terrible people. He makes it more about race than illegal activity. What's really dumb though is that he will discriminate towards the heritage but doesn't want to accept the fact that they make all the infrastructure happen.

[–]rAlexanderAcosta 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

We were eating pizza for lunch at home and this conversation came up. We're Mexican. She says, in Spanish, "but California is mostly Mexicans anyway."

A lot of people equivocate illegals and Mexicans. That's not what he's talking about, yo.

[–]sp0rk_walker 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'll make the other unpopular opinion that up until recently, you didn't need to be an American citizen to live here legally. For what that means, the first law that defined what a "natural born" citizen meant excluded Native Americans.

[–]CowboyNinjaAstronaut 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The 14th Amendment states:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.

This was done to ensure slaves and their children would be citizens. Not just "freed" but made citizens. You're correct, it did not apply to Native Americans.

In 1884, an American Indian, John Elk, argued he should be a citizen by that. He lost the case. In Elk v. Wilkins, 112 U.S. 94 the Supreme Court decided the 14th Amendment did not make Indians citizens because they were not subject to the jurisdiction of the US. "Jurisdiction" does not just mean "living in the territory." It means you're part of the political system.

Indians were not granted citizenship until Congress passed the Indian Citizenship Act of 1924.

It wasn't until 1982 that Justice William Brennan kinda decided kids born to illegals were citizens.

The issue should be decided by the people of the United States. Not the Supreme Court. We should have a rational discussion about what it means to be a citizen of a nation, and the manner in which one may or may not become so. Of course that will never happen because anyone who questions the wisdom of granting citizenship based solely on geography is clearly a horrible racist and should be shouted down.

[–]vrgr23 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have a feeling that in a few months you're gonna be really embarrassed you supported this clown. Enjoy it while it lasts.

[–]Pornhistorian 32ポイント33ポイント  (9子コメント)

Not a bad opinion. People often forget just how hard it is to become a u.s citizen. But, why should Mexicans get all the perks when the illegally cross the border. While families from other countries have to wait years to be given a chance to become a u.s citizen. Don't hate Mexicans, the ones I know are really hard workers.

[–]RommelTJ 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because agricultural and other economic policies royally screwed the Mexican farmer. It used to be a fairly simple thing to get a legal work visa for temporary agricultural work. It's no longer the case. It's not so simple and while absolutely Mexico should be doing more for its people, lets not forget that where they are migrating to used to belong to Mexico until we took that land.

If the U.S.D.A. stopped its massive subsidies and reviewed its policies to aid our neighbor to the south, they wouldn't want to come here. But Americans like food to be cheap and so we have this system in place where the fruit is picked by exploited illegal immigrants that we love to hate but we can't seem to live without.

[–]MenacingErmine 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

I live in a border town and my uncle has been trying to get citizenship for over a decade. It really grinds my gears when people consider amnesty for those who circumvented the legal immigration system.

[–]lucasmez[🍰] 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

has been trying to get citizenship for over a decade.

Well, why do you think people circumvent the legal immigration system? It's extremely hard to get even a Green Card, let alone citizenship.

[–]air0125 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Depends though. Parents immigrated based off skilled immigration and h1b1. Wasn't too bad. Skilled immigration is the way forward for developed countries

[–]mrjosemeehan 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

People go where work takes them. They're just trying to live their lives and I don't think anyone has a right to tell anyone where they can do that. Their ancestors lived in this land before there was a border there. Uto-Aztecan languages were spoken from Washington state through Southern Mexico.

[–]SteelWing 18ポイント19ポイント  (11子コメント)

He believes anyone can get their citizenship as long as they do it the legal way.

Immigrating here legally isn't as easy one would think.

[–]wardamn95 5ポイント6ポイント  (7子コメント)

And why do you think that is a bad thing? Not trying to be confrontational I'm genuinely curious. We don't need more people in the United States, if you would like to become a citizen here, then go through the legal avenues that you are required to.

[–]SteelWing 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think it's disingenuous for us to have this media image that people should come here, that this country is a great place to live, and then make the process practically impossible to get in unless you're wealthy, have connections, or are one of the lucky 5000 that managed to make it into the line to come here in the first place.

[–]verticae 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

As a legal immigrant, why don't you need more people?

[–]Kenoobi 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

We have enough poor/jobless/uneducated people as it is.

[–]verticae 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

But that's an issue addressed by internal policy. It's something that can be fixed with better access to quality education, affordable higher education and social safety nets. Keeping legal immigrants out of the country does nothing to fix a broken system.

[–]Kenoobi -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

It doesn't fix it but it certainly doesn't make things worse.

[–]CowboyNinjaAstronaut -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Genuinely curious, why do we need more people?

[–]murderhuman -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

good

[–]arjun10 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don't get why people have so much heart for illegals. I get that they're people too and even families, but at the end of the day it's illegal.

Some of us don't really derive our understanding of morality and ethics from status-quo laws, or see laws as inherently moral or rational.

[–]blackbeansandrice 9ポイント10ポイント  (12子コメント)

The part you're missing is that these people were invited. They were invited as cheap labor by you and me because we don't want to pay twelve dollars for a tomato. Ask the farmers in Alabama and Georgia if they think it's a good idea to kick out undocumented workers. They had crops dying on the vine when several states decided to pass draconian anti-immigration laws back in 2011. Whole economies were jeopardized, because American workers never stepped up to fill those jobs. The immigration "crises" is not a crises for you or me. We are largely unaffected. The "crises" is that we asked these people to come and now that they're here nobody can decide what to do about them. We've gotten the benefits of cheap labor without having to bestow any of the benefits of citizenship for a long time.

[–]CowboyNinjaAstronaut -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Isn't that basically just arguing for slavery with more steps?

Southerners before the Civil War: "If we free the slaves, cotton will be too expensive!"

White liberals in 2015: "If we don't have illegal immigrants we can exploit, tomatoes will be too expensive!"

[–]foxh8er 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The point is that the illegal immigrants are the primary victims here. Illegal immigration is done out of economic necessity, not out of malice as Donald Trump suggests.

[–]blackbeansandrice 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The fact that you would couch you're question so glibly, and in these terms, leads me to believe that you are: A. Simply uninformed on the issue of immigration, or B. Not truly interested in understanding all the elements regarding undocumented workers. Because all you've done is make two points, one of them simplistic at best and the other entirely fictional, and then connected them with a line so crudely drawn, I'm at a loss to understand its point.

[–]daimposter 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Anti illegal immigrant stance in reddit? That's extremely popular. Who are you kidding, this place is filled with racist, xenophobes and anti-illegal immigrant people

I'm so fucking glad you conveniently missed the god damn part where he called Mexicans rapist and drug dealers. And seriously, that was he big issue with trump but you want to go and fucking defend Trump?

[–]SpongebobNutella 7ポイント8ポイント  (6子コメント)

He wants to build a wall and make Mexicans pay for it and not allow any Mexicans in.

[–]WhosJoeDaddy 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Watched one of his speeches today to see what kind of bullshit he spits out. He says a lot of dumb things but he did say, "I want a giant open door to let anyone in who wants it."

[–]MenacingErmine 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

A giant wall, yes, but also a giant door to citizenship.

[–]SpongebobNutella -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

And racism.

[–]CowboyNinjaAstronaut -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're right, anyone who wants the laws of their country followed and applied equally to all is a racist.

[–]SpongebobNutella [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

He wants Mexicans to build a wall. And he says the Mexicans who in the US there are all rapists and drug dealers. And believe me, all Mexicans hate him, not only the illegals.

[–]indeepth0ught 6ポイント7ポイント  (44子コメント)

Because apparently being against illegal immigration (which is illegal) makes you racist. Just like everything else like breathing or existing.

[–]NewWahoo 52ポイント53ポイント  (5子コメント)

No, calling Mexican immigrants "rapists and drug dealers" is racist.

Yes, yes, I know he meant just the ones that actually commit crime, the problem is he used those the justify hate and mistreatment towards 11 millions people. That is racist.

[–]CowboyNinjaAstronaut 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Doing it your way, 11 million people are exploited by American companies for profit. Are you sure you're not the baddie?

[–]randomfact8472 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well considering you can't filter out criminals when they immigrate illegally it's not exactly a terrible point.

[–]daimposter 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

So if 2% of of an illegal population are criminal drug dealers and rapist, it's okay to call them all drug dealers and rapist and to top it off say "And some, I assume, are good people'. How the fuck is that not racist?

[–]indeepth0ught -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

the problem is he used those the justify hate and mistreatment towards 11 millions people

How did that happen? That's completely out of left field. Where does he advocate mistreatment of anyone for that matter?

[–]Zachabuchis 17ポイント18ポイント  (2子コメント)

Not being against it, but labelling all illegals as bad people, and then acting angrily and violently against Latinos regardless of their citizenship is racist. And there are enough of these cases for someone to be upset with those who are against illegal people.

[–]GenericUsername16 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wait, you can't breath or exist without being called racist?

I've manage to do a lot of stuff without being called racist.

If you can't then maybe that says something about you?

[–]indeepth0ught -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe it's a joke? What does it say about you that you can't understand hyperbole?

[–]JHoNNy1OoO 1ポイント2ポイント  (18子コメント)

No, saying this, among other bullshit Trump has said makes you a racist.

When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're sending people that have lots of problems. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists, and some, I assume, are good people.

Because he has absolutely no data to back that up and is just trying to stir up the xenophobes who see "their" country turning a darker by the minute.

[–]indeepth0ught 10ポイント11ポイント  (12子コメント)

Trump says he's completely supportive of legal immigration, including from Mexico. That doesn't jive with the "racism" claim. He is very clearly against illegal immigrants, and being an "illegal immigrant" is not a race.

[–]daimposter 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So he makes racist statements towards illegal immigrants....but that's all okay because he says he supports legal immigration? FUCK OFF!

[–]Surreals -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's bullshit. It's a veil. You can't be openly racist in 2015 you have to be subtle. You know how people talk about how racism is a big problem in 2015 and you never see any? This is why. The whole illegal immigration thing is not about the rule of law. It's about getting rid of brown people who speak spanish.

There are plenty of laws that are on the book and not enforced to their full extent. Plenty of illegal activity is overlooked. The GOP is interested in enforcing this only immigration laws to their full extent because they're trying to gain votes with the racist demographic. It's very similar to the southern strategy.

[–]indeepth0ught -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

The whole illegal immigration thing is not about the rule of law. It's about getting rid of brown people who speak spanish.

I wonder would do you think the country would look like if you opened up the borders for anyone who wants to come in immediately? Would it be a crime-free paradise?

The GOP is interested in enforcing this only immigration laws to their full extent because they're trying to gain votes with the racist demographic.

Maybe you're right that the idea of legal immigration process is preferred by racists over open borders to everyone. That doesn't say anything about the concept, it's more like a ad hominem attack. If racists like breathing the air does that mean we should stop and suffocate? You probably have vastly more in common with racists than the differences.

[–]Surreals 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wonder would do you think the country would look like if you opened up the borders for anyone who wants to come in immediately?

Oh, come on. You can do better than that. Everything isn't black and white. You've presented a false dichotomy.

Would it be a crime-free paradise?

Illegal immigrants are 20% as likely as citizens to commit crimes (probably for fear of being deported)

I support a path to citizenship for illegal immigrants because our borders aren't opened to anyone who wants to come in. They're opened to people who are smarter than the border police, and whose lives are so bad that they're willing to risk getting caught. If they're that desperate and resourceful, I say that we want them in our country.

[–]Frankocean2 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

EXactly, and its amazing to see so much people falling for that crap. Hell , even the bulks of immigrants are not mexicans, they are from central america now.

It's absolutely incredible how much people are defending trump

[–]121381 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

since when is the nation of mexico a race??

[–]billswinthesuperbowl -4ポイント-3ポイント  (2子コメント)

And is he wrong. You think the people running through the border already have a good life in Mexico? No they are poor, used to violence to survive and are not the most educated. If they had the education and luck they would have a decent life by Mexico standards.

[–]UsedQtip 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

So what you're saying is Mexican immigrants are leaving their terrible lives behind not to find a better life but to make everyone else's lives worse? You think millions of people with families would go through all of that trouble just to be an asshole? I mean maybe you're right maybe all of them are bad people but I just don't think that's why.

[–]billswinthesuperbowl 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No I am saying Mexican illegal immigrants are leaving their terrible lives behind where they developed terrible habits and bring those habits and lifestyles to another country. I do not think they are intentionally trying to cause trouble or be an asshole that is just their way of life they grew up and used to survive.

[–]devinchancexxx 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

Only if you're white though /s

[–]Yolo_Swagovich 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

Why the /s? It absolutely applies to just whites.

[–]devinchancexxx 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I was trying to show that I think it's bull shit that "only white people can be racist" haha. My bad.

[–]Yolo_Swagovich -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No worries and I agree it's pretty sad.

[–]daimposter -4ポイント-3ポイント  (5子コメント)

What the fuck, are you stupid? He called Mexicans immigrants rapist and drug dealers and finished by saying 'and some, I hear, might be good people' or something to that affect.

[–]paaaaatrick -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

He said the illegal immigrants the "Mexican government sends". Not sure what that means, but he was not talking about all Mexican immigrants, and not even about all illegal Mexican immigrants. (See the edit)

I'm feeling the Bern this election, but I respect Trump for being (in my opinion) the Republican Sanders: Both not affected by big money and both speak their mind and don't sound like regular old politicians.

Edit: http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trumps-epic-statement-on-mexico-2015-7

"I don’t see how there is any room for misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the statement I made on June 16th during my Presidential announcement speech," Trump wrote, adding, "What can be simpler or more accurately stated? The Mexican Government is forcing their most unwanted people into the United States. They are, in many cases, criminals, drug dealers, rapists, etc.""

Seems to me Trump believes some conspiracy where the Mexican Government actually helps criminals illegally immigrate. I don't think this is true though.

[–]indeepth0ught -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's true he made a generalizations about illegal immigrants, but not the Mexican people. He says he loves and respects the Mexican people. "Illegal immigrant" isn't a race.

[–]daimposter 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So he makes racist statements towards illegal immigrants....but that's all okay because he says he supports legal immigration? FUCK OFF!

[–]FUSSY_PUCKER 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

When he says shit like most illegals are rapists and criminals, how are you going to tell the illegal ones from the legal ones on the street? That's why Latinos are pissed at him. Most illegals want to stay as low as possible, just working and sending money back home to help their families.

[–]CowboyNinjaAstronaut -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

So you build a wall, and then you document the people who come in through the doors. That way when one of them is convicted of a crime, you know that one is a criminal, and not to let them back in.

And now the documented workers can be protected by our labor laws and not exploited.

Seems pretty fair to me. Are you pro-criminal, or anti-laborer? What exactly is the problem?

[–]GenericUsername16 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So if he's against illegal immigration , not immigration in general, is he just going to make all immigration legal, thereby ending any and all illegal immigration?

[–]makeskidskill 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Here's the thing, you see a bunch of brown skinned Spanish speaking people walking around the downtown area. Which ones are legal? How are you going to check? Do you really line up all the Mexicans and check their papers? The word Illegal is just a cover to make discrimination less blatant.

[–]MrSoul8150 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have yet to hear any real Trump policies except... "away with these brown people!" You can't sit here and tell us what his policies are when he doesn't even know what the fuck he's talking about.

[–]ImlrrrAMA -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's more about not vilifying people who most likely have very little and are generally desperate for an opportunity. The immigration process is lonnnggg. Yeah, it is absolutely illegal to come here undocumented, but it's pretty justifiable. These people aren't Americas biggest enemy and that's what trump is trying to make them. It's dangerous.

[–]nthftf 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't get why people have so much heart for illegals. I get that they're people too and even families, but at the end of the day it's illegal.

Looking down on someone because they broke the law doesn't really make sense when you think about it. Nearly all Americans have broken the law at some point, and most have committed a felony. They probably just didn't get caught.

[–]williammc -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Part of it is that any legislation against illegal immigrants from Mexico ends up having a negative impact on legal US citizens who have Mexican heritage, because they look the same.

[–]Confesses_To_Crimes -5ポイント-4ポイント  (1子コメント)

You have the morality of an emotionally stunted child.

[–]chattytrout 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Way to contribute to the conversation. /s