全 29 件のコメント

[–]Calculator_Filet 17ポイント18ポイント  (4子コメント)

If you believe that someone can be in this country illegally then you believe in White supremacy and that the conquerors are justified in making the rules. White people were literally given land stolen from indigenous folks from the 1600s til the late 1800s but some how it's not ok for other people to try to eke out an living. Not to mention that Texas, California, New Mexico, Arizona, Utah, Nevada, and parts of Oklahoma, Kansas, and Colorado all belonged to Mexico before. I think your argument is misplaced. It's not illegal immigrants who are depressing wages for Black people, that's rich White people.

[–]tsunade202[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

your right that mexican land has been taken over. but one counter-argument is that the indigenous people(native american tribes) in mexico have also seen their entire country taken over.

i also do not support white supremacy whatsoever. The fact is that there is not enough resources to go around. If you read the conclusion of the article legalizing 30 million low class workers will all but annihilate black income. since most black people do work in those lower fields.

we are all immigrants fair enough but how can america house all of south americas problems? with that logic there should be open borders and every one from south america should come here

[–]Calculator_Filet 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

who says there aren't enough resources? The issue of scarcity is one of the lynch pins of capitalism. I believe that there is more than ample for everyone to have enough. On another note, since you seem to be so against illegal immigration, have you been picking tomatoes, lettuce, blueberries, grapes, apples, tobacco, peaches, strawberries, watermelons, or cantaloupes for work recently? If you haven't been busting your hump in the hot sun for criminally-low wages, you have "illegal" immigrants to thank.

[–]tsunade202[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

On another note, since you seem to be so against illegal immigration, have you been picking tomatoes, lettuce, blueberries, grapes, apples, tobacco, peaches, strawberries, watermelons, or cantaloupes for work recently? If you haven't been busting your hump in the hot sun for criminally-low wages, you have "illegal" immigrants to thank.

im not sure what your view is of me but if i were in charge those people would be paid a fair wage. something like min wage. I dont hate illegal immigrants and i understand that they do jobs nobody else wants to do but still they are illegal and came here unfairly

legalize them and now they will compete for regular jobs that poor black americans have to survive.

who says there aren't enough resources?

because there isn't. It is incomprehensible to think you can have 400 million people live a middle class lifestyle. Northern europe doesn't count as an example because their populations are way smaller. In the end, Capitalism is a zero sum game. There will be losers and winners. Of course society has an obligation to mitigate these effects but nonetheless not everyone can win.

the problem is the fact that once black americans are etched out of low class jobs by undocumented immigrants. There will cease to exist any economic opportunites for poor black people

[–]jitomo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The indigenous people of Mexico are still there, though. The vast majority of Mexico is mestizo, mixed indigenous and immigrant blood. Unlike the US, the natives and their invaders intermingled much more heavily rather than opting for full-on genocide like the English did. They might not be "full-blooded" but they are still the native inheritors of the cultures and are descended directly from Amerindians. You will still hear Mexicans speaking Zapotec, Nahuatl, Tzeltal languages and engaging in native cultural traditions alongside Hispanic ones.

[–]leftblane 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't really think about illegal immigration. Should I? Every election season when the topic becomes a hot button issue, I wonder if I should care about it. It seems more like an issue for politicians to pontificate on rather than a real issue.

[–]meadeater2014 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm fine with people coming over. But Im waiting to see Native Americans oppose it and tell White people to go home.

[–]SpotLightGuy 1ポイント2ポイント  (10子コメント)

I'm totally against illegal immigration. So if all European Americans here illegally could make their way out we'd sure appreciate it.

[–]tsunade202[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

that includes us as well. We live on settled land. I'm also not white

[–]SpotLightGuy 0ポイント1ポイント  (8子コメント)

Maybe...but that depends on your purview regarding the history of where Native Americans come from.

[–]tsunade202[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

wow.

how can you backtrack on your statement like this? You call white people illegals then erase native american claim to north america when its convenient to you

Yes if you are not native america you are a infact a pseudo-colonizer

[–]SpotLightGuy 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

I think you misunderstood bro. I was referring to the origin of the peoples indigenous to this area (what you're referring to as native americans) when colonizers came, whom I believe to be of African descent. If you look at it that way then are african/latin people migrating to this land a case of immigration or reclamation?

[–]tsunade202[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

nah dude none of this afrocentric stuff.

native americans are actually of asian descent. Its believed they came from asia during the ice age where they could walk on the ocean since it was frozen.

http://science.time.com/2014/02/13/archaeological-dig-shows-native-american-history/

americans did take land away from mexicans so fair enough point. still mexicans took land away from its native people

[–]SpotLightGuy 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Maybe...but according to a study done by the BBC the first Americans were actually of Australian Aborgine descent.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/sci/tech/430944.stm

Again, all depends on the purview.

[–]tsunade202[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

this artcile is almost 2 decades old.

aboriginals are also not black african? why is there a need to clain native americans as black? thats strange tbh

[–]SpotLightGuy 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Why does the age of the article matter? We're talking about people who maybe lived 50,000 years ago and you're worried about 2 decades? Confirmation bias is a bitch.

Also you if you care you should do more research on the history of Australian aborignals. Then you could answer your own question.

Beyond that it's not about a need to claim it's about acknowledging facts. End of the day I'm not here to convince you of anything, do your own research. Thanks for playing though.

[–]tsunade202[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

the thing about science is that conclusions change with better research :)

i don't know what your smoking trying to claim native americans as black. Other than dark skin africans and aboriginals are not the same. Abos are their own ethnic group

native americans are nothing close to australian aboriginals.

i hate afrocentric people who spout everybody is black blah blah.

[–]WeekzilopochtliVerified BlackFella 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Economic crisis if they stop it. Despite the demogoguery at the top, in reality Americans don't want to do certain jobs. They don't want to gut fish for market, they don't want to round up animals, they dont want to pick fruit and vegetables. Its just the truth. And they have to be paid poorly or else prices on staple foods will rise. People want to end illegal immigration until the cost of a single potato is $1. They want to end illegal immigration until its cheaper to raise and slaughter your own meat than to buy it from a factory farm.

Internationally prices will rise as a significant amount of global food production happens in the US. Prices will rise because labor costs will go up and also because of shortage. No illegal workers means americans have to fill the spots and most americans are too stuck up to take on this work so there will be less output as well.

So at the end of the day its a talking point the republicans love to use to create a rally around the flag effect for white conservatives but they know their business backers will never actually allow them to get rid of illegal immigration.

[–]krs--1Don't like it here? Go back to r/Europe! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It hasn't ended since Columbus 'discovered' America? If you believe in the term 'illegal' immigration in America, then whites are the first illegals.

[–]JlovesBVerified BlackFella 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Every one is welcomed here in my eyes.

"White Americans, what? Nothing better to do? Why don't you kick yourself out? You're an immigrant too" -- The White Stripes

[–]tsunade202[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

I was very ill received in that subreddit. I was wondering what do people here think about it?

30 million+ people being legalized immigrants will not end well for black people.

The Impact of Illegal Immigration on the Wages and Employment Opportunities of Black Workers

http://www.usccr.gov/pubs/IllegImmig_10-1410_430pm.pdf

[–]krs--1Don't like it here? Go back to r/Europe! 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

30 million+ people being legalized immigrants will not end well for black people.

What makes you think that? Being legalized is the solution because then there is real competition in the labor market not what we have now... where you have undocumented immigrants being paid a dollar an hour because they have no rights.

[–]tsunade202[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

the job market already has a ton of competition.

We are at the point that a person needs a master degree to stay competitive.

more competition is not a good thing since it will drive down wages and make jobs even more scarce.

[–]krs--1Don't like it here? Go back to r/Europe! 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm talking of legal competition, not competition with undocumented workers and people on working visas employed at ridiculously low wages for their skill level. It's basically wage slavery. Legalization removes the incentives for big business to go after such labor.

[–]Borlaug 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Unless you're competing for janitors, burger flipper, and minimum wage jobs, they aren't really an issue. Even when you have documented workers with marketable skills, it doesn't mean they're going to find employment.

I know a Haitian with a degree in mechanical engineering. You know what he does for a living? He's dish washing with me. I've barely made a year in college.

[–]tsunade202[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

of course immigrant degrees don't matter we all know that.

black americans do work in the lowest paid jobs. We are the bottom of society in all aspects.

Blacks, who make up just 11 percent of the workforce, account for more than a third of home health aides and about 25 percent of both security guards and bus drivers—rather low paying jobs.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/11/the-workforce-is-even-more-divided-by-race-than-you-think/281175/

Latinos are fucked even more but that is because a good size are illegal and have to work in the bad jobs. I am saying that bringing in more illegals will push black people away from these low wage jobs. Not every person is going to go school for engineering.

[–]lurker093287h 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am the child of immigrants, but I think it's a complex situation. Obviously it is good (mostly) for the people coming into a country, with better living standards, escape from violence and opportunities for their children, but largescale immigration (especially illegal immigration where workers are in an even more precarious situation) coupled (as it often is) with an unregulated and de-unionised labour market has been shown to drive labour prices down at the bottom end of the labour market, it can also leave social services and public institutions overwhelmed by demand etc. This obviously has a negative effect on lots of people who would otherwise be able to command more pay.

There's also a big cultural element obviously and it's interesting, I had to go and visit relatives the other day and the older ones were all complaining about the change of a (historically Caribbean area of the city I live in) where people from Somalia, Eritrea and other parts of the world were moving in, and how it was bringing the area down and there were all of these things happening now that never used to happen, there were various tensions. I think that unpleasant (on both sides) ingroup/outgroup relationships irrespective of race can often result from largescale immigration, these seem to be exacerbated when there is a big cultural (and especially religious) difference and they can often feed into the labour issues and more importantly erode the 'collective feeling' that is important to social democratic institutions, with portions of the population defining themselves against the mainstream and through their 'home country' (a common feature of expatriate communities in a lot of places).

That super low cost labour (at below reasonable subsistence levels for any particular country) is important to business interests is one of the main reasons I think why largescale immigration has been more or less tacitly supported by most political parties in western Europe and the US for the past few decades, most of the measures pushed by people who are against it (on the face of it) do nothing to stop the flow and are designed (imo) to increase the precariousness of the situation of immigrants resulting in a more 'docile' workforce and a better bargaining position for businesses.

So I'm ambivalent and believe people should discuss the issue in an adult way.

Though I'm not anti immigration the stance of the US anti immigration groups really confuses me, the massive flow of immigrants (and seasonal labourers) to the US began more or less after NAFTA was made law and Mexican/Central American farmers were priced out of the market in large parts of it by subsidised US crops (particularly corn). Another factor is large amounts of people leaving the horrible situation (death squads etc) in smaller Central American states like Guatamala which is basically a direct result of the relationship between US companies and the landowning class there. All of this is reversible or solvable with the substantial resources that the anti immigration camp in the US have at their disposal, but instead they do things that will drive labour prices down even lower by making immigrants live a more precarious life. I don't understand