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It's okay that we fight. (self.KotakuInAction)

gekkozorz が 投稿

This weekend, GamerGate has reminded me of that that one Angelina Jolie movie. Spaghetti all over the place. Though I think worst of it's over now, I'm sure it will happen again at some point.

I just want to take this moment to remind the lovely members of our community that it's okay for us to fight because we're not a fucking hugbox.

If you state an opinion on Ghazi that deviates even slightly from their prevailing groupthink, they ban you. When feminists have a shitfight on Twitter, there's mass blockings. SJW hugboxes desperately need to be a part of some larger hivemind that can tell them what the "right thoughts", so it is very difficult for them to deal with dissent within their hugbox. Dissent is often simply not tolerated.

In GamerGate, we fight about stupid shit all the time. But then when a happening comes about, we'll go back to our battlestations and fight side-by-side. We can switch from PvP to co-op on a dime, and that's one of our many strengths.

Carry on.

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トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]Aurondarklord 31ポイント32ポイント  (3子コメント)

"When do the ends justify the means?" is one of the best issues to have disagreement on within a movement, and that's what most of our infighting is ultimately about.

Should we go after the root causes of unethical gaming journalism at the risk of appearing to prove our detractors right that we're anti-feminist? Should we stand by our free speech principles absolutely, or compromise when it's someone like Vox Day? When our allies fuck up, what's the more important virtue, integrity, or loyalty? When does consistency become fanaticism? When does flexibility become hypocrisy? What tactics are acceptable when, and how far is too far?

When there is no dissent on the core moral questions that make up our very humanity, THAT is when we should be worried, because that's a recipe for an army of zealots.

[–]Asraised_Bymom 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

This.

Even the founding fathers of murica were constantly yelling at each other over those issues. The moment we all agree on it will be when GG will truly be dead.

[–]Immahnoob 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can't answer anything properly without examples and context though (at least, for the last three questions.).

[–]Reginleifer 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Should we go after the root causes of unethical gaming journalism at the risk of appearing to prove our detractors right that we're anti-feminist?

I'm pretty anti-feminist.... I'm far out there in traditionalist territory, but even I believe that feminism is not our main target. It's journalists..... they're giving a platform and credibility to these lunatics who nobody would give a damn about otherwise.

Who gets the cities to fill potholes that have been there for over a year? Who sets the false narrative of the wage gap? Who made SJW professors stop unfair grading and put back the American flag? , the media has its hands in both the government and academia, it influences people's consumer choices.... and if we're going to "win" against these people slandering our hobby and our reputations.... you're going to need to control the narrative.

The more specific issue at hand is if we should follow rule 12 of Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" .....

RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.” Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)

Say what you will about the morality involved, it works and GG's lack of uncontested leaders have given us an formidable shield against the use of the tactic against US. It's extremely hard to get someone in that weird Quebec show to give us a fair shake, the BBC and the Guardian have pretty much set the narrative against us.... two of those are publicly funded and not nearly as accountable as they should be.

Institutions can brush us off, people really can't. Pointing out ethical failures in people will lessen their appetite for slander, and they'll be less willing to provide "hitpieces" to the institution. Or better yet, the writers lose credibility and CANNOT provide any more hitpieces, there or elsewhere.

These are all "ifs" not necessarily "shoulds", GG is free to decide what they're willing to do individually.

What DOES need to be dropped from the community is this silly idea that our crusade isn't going to cause suffering..... companies WILL lose money, people WILL lose their jobs, those you oppose aren't going to go down quietly. You're fighting media juggernauts in a straight up culture war, it was never going to be clean.

[–]wharris200122k get! 24ポイント25ポイント  (7子コメント)

You didn't get the memo? I'm the leader of #GamerGate and anyone who ever disagrees with me is a SJW and/or a shill.

[–]mbnhedger 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

As the actual leader of gamergate, for the crime of impersonating the leader of gamergate, I sentence you to banishment to the shadows.

[–]ChallyIITES 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Lair! You're not Tyrone.

[–]RavenscroftRaven 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Shill! Shill! Cuck shill! Cuck shill! SJW cuckshill! SJW cuckshill!

I found one. May we burn it?

[–]offbeatpally 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I thought they were called Ethics cucks now.

[–]lichlordgodfrey 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I AM ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL

THIS HURTS YOU, SHITLORD

[–]ObliteratedRectum 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I just love that, because of the internet, a guy going by the name "ObliteratedRectum" can get a professional journalist at a major news publication to reply to or even quote "ObliteratedRectum".

The internet is amazing.

[–]Jack-Browser/r/TheCommentGraveyard 12ポイント13ポイント  (15子コメント)

THIS!

Also: The SNES was better than the GENESIS!

[–]Archistopheles 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

Chrono. Trigger.

drops mic

[–]kfms6741VIDYA AKBAR 23ポイント24ポイント  (0子コメント)

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/975/238/d8f.jpg

[–]Playthrough 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Super Metroid.

picks up mic and throws it to your face

[–]thesquibblyone 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Donkey Kong Country 2.

Catches mic and drops it again.

[–]dingoperson2 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

I feel the Christian-bashing has gone too far

[–]ruisk8 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know about this "Genesis" , but Mega-drive > all !!! ;)

it has blast processing

[–]Limon_LimeSeven-37k Get. Eleven more drug deals. 48k Get. 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

AGREED! OH NOES ECHO CHAMBER!

[–]C4Cypher 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Phah! Dirty peasants. :3

[–]unitedamerika 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

Haha, funny joke but we all know genesis won and sega give us the last great console... Dreamcast, I still play it to this day. No console had a better launch line up.

R.I.P. Sega

[–]cordlc 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Moving out of my house soon so I ended up digging out a whole bunch of old stuff, a few days ago I found some of the Official Dreamcast Magazine issues (I had subscribed to it for the demos they came with). Reminded me how much I loved the damn thing. For a console that only lasted like 2 years, it had a ridiculously good run.

[–]antimattern 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Dreamcast had the most comfortable controller ever. Shame it didn't do well in the US.

[–]unitedamerika 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I totally love the dreamcast controller, but people have complain about it to me. It did get a bit heavy with two VMUs in there tho.

Yeah, the US market can be stupid. I never understood the appeal of the original xbox. From how someone explain it to me, it mostly cause of halo and the first time people had FPS in their home. While I've already experience Quake, CS, etc. on PC.

[–]Ligno 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'll have to disagree with you on the controller. I did however play the fuck out of Soul Calibur.

Remember, tomorrow is Dreamcast's sweet sixteen!

[–]Daghi 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's objective fact though.

[–]Fun-With-Treason 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Rise from your grave!

[–]-Buzz--Killington-Misogoracisphobic Terror Campaign Leader 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

The thing that irks me more than the drama, is the people acting surprised that there's drama... Where the fuck you been for the last year people?

[–]reversememe 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

It shouldn't. It means we continue to genuinely attract new people.

[–]-Buzz--Killington-Misogoracisphobic Terror Campaign Leader 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

nah, people see internet drama, people should expect more internet drama tbh.

[–]Psemtex21k get 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean, it's not like it happens every weekend or anything...

[–]Scimitar66 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

This whole deal has reminded me of a movie I saw on HBO a while ago called "Citizen X" (great film, by the way): it tells the story of a detective in the Soviet Union as he investigated a series of murders from the early 1980s to the early 1990s.

There was a man who would abduct children and young women from train stations and murder them in the woods. More important to the story, however, was how the Soviet government would absolutely refuse to admit the extent of the issue, or to ask for help. The detective wanted more men, greater resources, help from the United State's FBI murder division, as well as the publicization of facts about the case, (in order to prevent more murders and hopefully find witnesses) but the Soviet government refused to provide him with these things, believing that doing so would damage their reputation (they also refused to allow the detective to investigate communist party members)- their hesitance resulted in dozens of deaths before the detective eventually caught the murderer.

The reason the Soviet Union collapsed is the same reason the SJW community will collapse: they refuse to admit when anything is wrong, and challenging the prevailing narrative can get you defamed, attacked, and silenced. This is a fundamental battle between intellectual democracy (or more accurately intellectual capitalism) and intellectual tyranny- and a free, democratic mind is inherently superior to a dogmatic, rigid one.

[–]that-guy-is-it 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't quite know if the USSR Comparison matches. The USSR Collapsed, in a nutshell, because the People realizes that the government had been lying to them, and honestly did not care for them. If the SJWs are the government, who are the people in this scenario? The only way I see SJWs collapsing is when they push things too far (ironically, like the USSR did in Afghanistan). I think maybe something like a University refusing to give men Science Majors in the interests of guaranteeing more women in STEM might push things on edge. The SJWs would not back down, and, honestly, such blatant discrimination would be banned in courts, hence destroying their credibility. This is a matter of time, yes, but every inch we give is an inch that will be difficult to take back.

[–]Scimitar66 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Metaphors are like tables, the more you lean on them, the more likely they are to break."

Sure, the comparison isn't complete or perfect- no metaphor is. I'm just pointing out that the fatal flaws in SJW thinking are similar to those that led to the ineffectiveness of the Soviet government.

[–]LuminousGrue 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

This.

An untested idea is a worthless one; only by challenging it though discussion and debate can we learn which ideas are good and which aren't.

Question everything, including your allies' ideas, and especially your own. Discard whatever crumbles under scrutiny, and keep whatever's still standing.

[–]Asraised_Bymom 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

On a positive side: The console wars endless debate is pretty much dead. Culture wars destroyed it.

I never thought it was possible to end that fucking pointless fight, but they did it.

[–]that-guy-is-it 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

What happened is that the peasants realized they needed the Master Race to save gaming. In all seriousness though, those "in-culture" wars are all for laughs anyway. We see Console and PC Gamers unite to defend gaming. I am sure if someone tried to ban Star Wars (for some reason), Trekkies, their mortal enemies, would put side their joke differences and stand for what matters: Their Science Fiction. Our "fights"are what stop us from becoming a hug box. Keeps us diverse and constantly challenging one another. We all know what really matters in the end. (PC is Master Race, though)

[–]bastiVSVanu Archivist 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Someone please tell me wtf is going on.

What did we even fight about? There has been a bunch of trolls here and on Twitter who just tried to be annoying, but thats pretty much all I saw.

So, what fight are you talking about? wtf happend?

[–]DeadGamerWalking 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

breitbart shit on a nobody college girl, Milo got upset people were comparing them to gawker and giving labels to right-ringers.

[–]bastiVSVanu Archivist 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I saw that, both the Breitbart piece and milos response.

But that cant be the whole story.

[–]GoonZL 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is pretty much it. I think there was some absurd shit concerning one Lizzy's articles.

People love drama. This thread is a continuation of the drama.

[–]95snowman 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I HATE YOUR GUTS OP!

Now give us a cuddle

[–]kamon123 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This always happens before a happening and after a year I can't believe it's a coincidence. Pretty sure we had a warning thread about this. Before every happening crazy shit happens and suddenly there's infighting out of nowhere. I get the feeling its agent saboteurs trying to drive a wedge. They roll in and start arguing in hopes of driving users off or putting out an argument that barely holds up but gets enough people repeating it because it sounds right on the surface.

[–]Invin29 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nailed it. I'd rather see spaghetti than see people banned and censored for disagreeing.

[–]BrimshaeSun Tzu VII:35\Survived GGinDC 2015\Dined GGinNC 2015\GGinRVA 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Meh, there's always a mess of randos most people haven't heard of that come out of the woodwork every time something big is coming down the pipe, or every time something has just happened.

It's like a truly amazing coincidence every single time.

[–]APGJesseAPGNation 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

APGJesse will forever be the best person since forever ever sliced bread trevor. FACT!

[–]Immahnoob 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

People should stop thinking a group that does not fight on its ideology is a hugbox...

What we support is the truth, you can't possibly claim that you don't believe in facts.

[–]MisterSnerkel -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

There are facts but not everyone can be right so a little discussion heated or not is good.

[–]Immahnoob 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not everyone can be right because those that are not right are not accepting the facts... It's one of the reasons we have people disagreeing in situations that should be easy to decipher in the first place.

[–]mnemosyne-0000#BotYourShield / https://i.imgur.com/6X3KtgD.jpg 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Archive links for this post:

I am Mnemosyne, goddess of memory. I remember so you don't have to.

[–]TheMindUnfetteredGrand Poobah of GamerGate 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

:pulls down mask:

Keep firing, shitlords!

[–]Bizz408 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not afraid of calling bullshit whenever I see it no matter who it's coming from. I'm blocked by a number of ProGG'ers because of this.

[–]Syndromic 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

As far as things go, we are doing JUST fine considering we get constant flurry of new members and those with agendas. So far so good. Granted, I'm not too fond when people getting excited every time semi-famous celebrity like Donald Trump namedrops Gamergate, but the community is welcoming and everyone is willing to give benefits of the doubt unless people are deliberately acting hostile looking for arguments. Plus this place is where I can just let loose without filtering my mouth.

[–]RavenscroftRaven 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Let it be resolved: PS2 is the best living-room console of all time. Gamegear is the best handheld console of all time. Shizune is best waifu.

You can lie to yourself, crying at night into your pineapple pizza, but you don't know quality if you disagree.

(Am I doing it right?)

[–]SoullessTechnocrat 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Shadowlands is so not schway anymore...

[–]replicor 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Remember the last time Congress unanimously agreed on a bill? Patriot Act.

[–]HariMichaelson 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Democracy done properly is loud and messy.

[–]thesquibblyone 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't disagree，but I feel like disagreeing sometimes verges into guilt by association and strawmaning. See: /ggrevolt/

That's not ok.

[–]mnemosyne-0000#BotYourShield / https://i.imgur.com/6X3KtgD.jpg 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Archive links for this discussion:

I am Mnemosyne, goddess of memory. I remember so you don't have to.