It's sad by TotalBiscuit

DaangerZone · 4時間前

One thing I will say Mr Bain if you are reading this, is that twitter is not ideal for arguments or criticism on a small scale. Things get taken out of context and there just isnt the space to get points across well. Not to mention the waves of support that get lavished upon you from followers, which may unknowingly enforce your stance regardless of how right you are.

SoundCloud however is excellent, you are much more eloquent when you talk, its one of the reasons people love your videos so much. More importantly it allows you to speak freely and consider your words, so as not to villify a whole community by accident but also to explain your reasoning and make people understand where you are coming from. I dare say that if you had forgone twitter and responded to this via an audio blog, this whole mess could have been avoided.

tl:dr Twitter bad, SoundCloud good.

rilgebat · 4時間前

I can't help but feel like this whole thing is a reposting of older drama with "misogyny" and "transphobia" swapped out for "child hate".

I think most people can agree that vitriol/"toxicity"/trolling/hate/etc should be moderated out, but we need to remember that in a public place people have opinions, and even if that opinion is valid, well reasoned and constructive, it can still be hurtful.

Because of that, if you cannot deal with that then you really shouldn't be putting yourself into that environment, and especially not seeking it out. It's unfortunate, but trying to turn public domains into "safe spaces" simply does not work.

Flukie · 5時間前

I think the crux of the issue comes that many people in this community are sick of being criticised by people in the gaming media being called generally awful things.

I haven't seen any justification of those comments here but people really take issue of being lumped in with those comments, attack those individuals and don't assume a community are responsible otherwise they will take it personally.

It's very easy to say hey:

This subreddit is shit

Reddit is shit

Twitter is shit

Tumblr is shit (lol)

Replace shit with any slur and anyone actively engaging there will just feel attacked by that, it's just the way internet communities centred around personalities work.

He mentions about criticising individuals here compared to criticising actions of a group which is probably why people are so up in arms about this, I personally haven't seen a significant portion of this group engage in something like child hate. I'm more of the type of person who onlys upvotes rather than downvotes and I doubt I'm the minority which can lead to opinions / discussion that I wouldn't agree with being upvoted.

I'd love to see some raw evidence of what happened so this could be settled as in who was right or wrong because I missed the boat on this.

ForGlory99 · 5時間前

A bunch of drama over a 10 year old's laugh.... i just wanna get back to talking about misplays in hearthstone and FOV sliders :(

phus · 4時間前

the thing that bothers me is at around 13:40 he says "all we wanted to say is stop the kid hate, thats not ok" which would have been a great message. the message we got was "everyone on the subreddit is a bunch of complainers and child haters". those are two completely different messages.

I understand TB is a wordy guy and likes to get his point across but a single tweet says "hey knock off the child hate on the subreddit" would have gotten the point across real quick.

DeoFayte · 4時間前

It's your content, it's your show we're just viewers, invite who you want, allow in who you want. Don't go admitting a major self shortcoming, a common shortcoming, and in the next sentence complain about others also having and indulging in a common shortcoming, ranting. People complain, get things off their chest, in a social environment where they seek out others who might share the same complaint, or find out if they're alone in the complaint. It's natural. Sure some of the comments that have been mentioned to exist (I haven't seen them myself) went too far but the one's upvoted then down voted after just seemed like complaints, not criticism.

We aren't here to talk to TB. We aren't here to offer insight on how to improve what you do. We are here to share our opinion of your content, and sometimes that shared opinion will simply be a complaint. It happens, especially, oddly enough, when there is so little to actually criticize about a piece of content. I greatly enjoyed the podcast, content was entertaining, lots of laughs were had. I didn't even notice the girls laughter the first time through. If I had I would have found it annoying. I wouldn't likely have complained because I'm not really the type, but I'll happily defend the right to complain.

It's truly a shame that the father of the girl read those comments and was hurt by them, but the world isn't all hugs and bunnies and not everyone likes children. The complaint about the sound of a child's voice is not something to be offended by as it's not something one can change and is really a problem for the complainer not the little girl.

As for levying criticism on the subreddit, calling out behavior, absolutely you have the right to, and quite frankly i want you to be encouraged to do so. Just tip toe, remember that no matter how perfectly it's worded there will be the %0.01 that will be/act offended anyway, keep the dialog open, or how about placing that criticism here instead of on twitter. You want to talk about our behavior, kindly don't do it from a pedestal.

The better solution is to act, speak up, but be prepared to move one step forward, two steps back.

Pointing out the specific comments would have been way worse, quite glad you didn't go that road. All it would have lead to is those individuals in turn being ostracized and harassed. No one would have learned anything. No good would have come from it. You would have indirectly been just as bad as those you were considering calling out.

You de escalate with, well, a heart to heart, specify, clarify, explain your thought process, help us understand your side better. You have all of our comments to go by, we have a couple offhanded tweets. I think this will help, we'll see.

Sometimes you have to hurt someone to help them gain understanding.

Thank You for the Soundcloud TB (well aware he prob won't read this :P).
These are just my thoughts as I listened to it.

If you want the subreddit to be anything specific at all then the dialog must remain open. Also remember that there are only so many volunteering mods here. They can't catch everything, can't get to everything instantly, can't always have people watching. They nor we can understand what you hope of this place unless you let us know. Keep that dialog open.

Edit: Thanks for the gold stranger.

drunkenvalley · 4時間前

I think the biggest thing TB needs to do to deal with these things is... well, more empathetic messaging.

The tweets that got him in this shit in the first place were hostile and ambiguous.

"We" were "ragging on a 12 year old girl", so any comment on the girl's laughter leaves you feeling targeted. That's bad.
"Trying to justify hating on a 12 year old girl" is in the same boat. Fuck, more people now feel targeted for going back to see what the fuss what, and admits they can see where it's coming from. Now you're a potential target of TB's disdain.

And it kind of goes on a lot like that. If TB wants to avoid these escalations I think he needs to narrow it down and be more clear on where the line went, especially with mods here already actively doing their job, so people feel targeted moreso when the things that were over the line are gone, leaving only the "somewhat toeing it" at best...

Crysticalic · 4時間前

I suggest every party lets it rest. TB has had his say, people in the subreddit have had their say. We can argue all we like but it just seems that either side does not get where the other side is coming from. TB is not being dishonest here, he just either does not see the view some people here have or does not share it, and vice versa.

Argueing about it more at this point is not going to change anything for the better. Let's put it to a rest. I don't think anyone likes the current situation.

Do I agree with every point tb is making? No. But ultimately I also don't see why people were complaining about the little girl so much either. Sure, find her laughter annoying. But what's the point of complaining about it? Think they would throw her out or something during the podcast? Of course not and I doubt anyone would have wanted that. Ultimately it was the organizer's fault for the audio set-up anyway, although I certainly appreciate the stream that we got and I feel that some people were overreacting when it came to the girl's laughter.

Whatever the case, as far as I'm concerned what has happened is not of relevance anymore and I hope this is the last thread here on this incident. I'm looking forward to TB's videos and the next podcast and hope they everyone will calm down. To much drama. Chill guys. This all started because some people were complaining about a girl's laughter that only happened a few times during the podcast. It's not worth all this drama and the subreddit nor TB is benefitting from this silly incident. Everyone on every side has blown this way out of proportion.

Emelenzia · 3時間前

I think inherent problem is TB/Genna wants to distance themselves and not be associated, yet at same time maintain some control on the opinions with in the sub.

Solution is simply to be part of the community and simply reply to people when they are being dicks. People would respect that. Most likely original poster would apologize and say he didnt mean to be hurtful.

But disowning a community and yet still call them out publically only comes off as someone who cant handle seeing criticism of himself or his friends. It comes off as shaming the entire sub.

I believe TB when he says it was just his way of showing disapproval of individual comments. But generalizing only will cause a backlash, especially on twitter.

My suggestion is to participate with this sub and let people know when they being assholes. You dont need to be a mod or show any control. If you want to be a voice that calls out idiots on reddit, then do so within the space it actually happens.

But if TB is adamant on disowning reddit, it best for him to go all the way, and just not comment on it.

Emelenzia · 3時間前

One thing I find interesting is refering to this sub as a hive mind.

Personally I love how diverse this sub is. We constantly debate within each other. My opinions are constantly being up and down voted. There no real clear cut opinion on anything. Just a ton of objective minded folks who enjoy expressing themselves.

Dazanan · 5時間前

This is a joke, a bad dream... "Child hate"? What the fuck? Can someone point these comments out? Like seriously, I saw the comments about the girl from the podcast... they were downvoted. I didn't see ANY comments that warrant the fucking term "Child hate" on that thread.

What does he want? The moderators to be psychic gods that immediately remove dickish comments from all the assholes? That's not gonna happen. I'm sorry but this is a public internet forum and it's gonna attract douchebags that say things and other douchebags that agree with them. The problem here is YOU saw them instantly as they were posted and before they were downvoted or removed. This isn't the subreddits fault it's your addiction to social media and reading the comments that were made that is the problem.

This whole thing sounds so condescending and it doesn't fix anything. Seriously just stop. You cant fix this. It's not under your control, and unless you want to assume direct control of this sub and moderate it with an iron fist it will never be under your control.

You know what, this will be the last thread I post in here because I'm done with TB, not the sub, just TB. If this is his attitude towards his general audience now then I don't want to be part of it.

teleekom · 5時間前

You are really pushing it with the big bad subreddit vs. 10 year old girl who can't defend herself. Nobody in that thread could have know how old or what gender the kid is. I honestly just heard obnoxious laughter and made a comment about the laugh without really thinking "hmm I wonder how old is that person, can I comment on this or not?".

I've been to that thread, it's not like the upvoted comments were particularly vile or vulgar. It was just something that really stood up in that video. I think you are really making a big deal out of nothing. It could have ended then and there in that one thread but instead there are numerous posts, tweets and now blogs about such a stupid little thing.

And what is the end goal here anyway? Is this supposed to acomplish something? Should people apologize for making a comment about the laughter? Because honestly, I think you just pissing people off in this subreddit by making them look like some kind of evil child haters or something, which I don't think was the point at all.

TheFoxGoesMoo · 5時間前

I disagree with TB when he says that they should have some kind of responsibility for what is said on this subreddit. As he said just moments before that, this subreddit is not official in any way. I think he should have a completely hands off approach to this subreddit. Read it if he wants to, but if he sees something he doesn't like he shouldn't feel the need to address it since this subreddit and what happens in it is not his responsibility.

cRUNcherNO1 · 5時間前

and here we go again ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Emelenzia · 4時間前

I feel TB really mischaracterizes the events.

The Mom wasnt hurt because of the view subreddit comments, She was hurt because she found out from TB's twitlonger.

People didnt go out of their way to harass the Mom because they were annoyed at the kid. They did so because TB @ replied her.

Karzons · 3時間前

Had he simply initially said something like "I do not endorse these sort of comments on the subreddit and would like to discourage people from making them in the future to avoid hurting people's feelings" I don't think this would have ever been a big deal. Rather than making a comment about these sorts of comments, he talked about the people commenting themselves, and later seemingly the subreddit itself. The phrasing makes all the difference in the world regardless of intent. That said, I never saw the original comments and don't endorse them any more than I endorse being potentially lumped in with those who made them.

Geonjaha · 4時間前

4:55 - The problem from my perspective, as someone who arrives here after I see the response to the comments (after they have been downvoted or deleted in response), is that I can't know what they said most of the time. When I looked around afterward, I saw a mod post that said that no comments had been deleted in that thread (at least not that had anything to do with the girl or her voice). So in this instance, I could see exactly the comments that you were talking about.

Now, granted, some of those comments were quite insensitive, but I personally didn't think any of them were directly insulting the girl (Not justified, but not really proportional to the multiple responses it received). Someone else posted that at the panel itself the laugh was much quieter, so for everyone that listened, it just sounded like someone was being obnoxiously loud (to the point that some people might have seen it as intentional) throughout the podcast, so much so that it disrupted the show. Regardless, I think most people moved from that to requesting better audio or having an age restriction, not to insulting the girl or insinuating that it was her fault.

I think the subreddit could have handled it much better and with more sensitivity, but at the same time, I think the subsequent responses were so overblown (on both sides) that everyone overreacted, and this became a much bigger issue than it was initially.

EDIT: The part of TB's initial response that actually annoyed me was the part where he mentions the possibility of not uploading future panel podcasts. It seems like it's either punishing all of your viewers (and Jesse and Dodger's) just because a small minority would have rather not watched it, or assuming that those people represent everyone. That might be what led to people assuming that TB was putting everyone into a group, because when videos stop being put up, one has to assume its because most people had a big problem with them.

TL;DR - Everyone messed up, but I don't think anyone had any bad intentions. Mistakes were made. Hug it out, guys.

CptBaschOfDalmasca · 4時間前

Honestly people don't care about the kid anymore, a majority of the people on this sub have said the mean comments about the kid and her laugh were toxic and uncalled for.

The girl is not the thing people are upset about anymore, people on the sub are upset because TB and Genna were making broad generalizations about the entire subreddit as if we were all commenting on that thread and saying terrible things about her.

I'm sure TB can understand pointing a finger at your audience and blaming them all is something that agitates people cause they haven't done anything, then suddenly you make comments like: "I'm so done with this so called subreddit about my husband" that's a big finger to point at all of the 54K people that are subbed here.

TB said during his mad max commentary today, that all gamers are different and they don't think the same way, it would be nice if he backed it up.

EDIT: https://twitter.com/GennaBain/status/641596665598746624 didn't see this tweet when i looked at there twitters, now i feel like a fool >.>

EDIT 2: HOLY GOLD?! thank you very much!

bagelsville_satanist · 4時間前

The sad thing is this could've ended days ago, but they just keep tweeting and now soundclouding about it. I mean, if they had stopped after the first tweet this would've died down days ago.

And if you hate the subreddit why would you then actively keep reading it, do the mature thing and distance yourself from it.

green715 · 4時間前

Personally, I think people were annoyed at what the kid was doing, not being annoyed at/disliking the child themselves. I was slightly annoyed by her laugh, but I certainly didn't dislike her as a person in the slightest. I'm assuming that's how others felt, but I can definitely see how the parent could take those comments personally.

Really nice commentary by TB, whole situation seems like a shitshow.

HexezWork · 5時間前

Do you really think the debate was the right to make fun of a 10 year old?

Stop with this moral high ground bullshit the debate from the beginning has been about the audio quality on a piece of entertainment stop with this shaming bullshit as a deflection.

redenti · 3時間前

i'm a father of a small little brat... and i want to punch her sometimes. she drives me nuts... ofc i don't do that but i get even more angry with other people's kids... and if their parents generally don't care (see twitter from the mother) what people say then what other (civilized) venue do you have? unless you want to throw the whole family out of the room by force? venting your anger (in the room or on the subreddit) is actually the LEAST damage you can do if you are really angry.

that said, i personally wasn't bothered by the kid. i didn't even realize that it was a kid just by watching the vod.

honestly tb should have just let that go... let the people vent and be done with it...2h later and everyone had her say and that would have been that. he made it worse by giving it the attention it didn't deserve.

jamesbideaux · 4時間前

Here's my approach:

Instead of saying you are shitty, remind people to be empathic. "This is a little girl, she can't help how her laughter sounds, please keep that in mind", something along those lines. This video was pretty carefully phrased.

cleverlynamed · 4時間前

Why is this YouTube community the only one I can think of where there's this kind of drama happens between the content creator and its fans? I know channels who touch on much more political and controversial subjects where the content creator rarely/almost never lashes out at fans like this.

Snagprophet · 1時間前

I guess it depends. Yes, the awful comments should've been removed, but is he counting "That laugh was annoying" as part of the abuse? Like it or not it was topical to the thread.

Now, in terms of constructive criticism, the real problem was that the audience volume in general was too high, however the distinct laugh stood out the most. Compared to CoxCon you could barely hear the audience, in some cases you could barely hear the audience question mic. It's a shame this overshadowed the panel.

Me personally, I came in a while after the the drama and saw a moderate "that laugh though" and "couldn't go more than 20 minutes" comments before going to watch/listen to it.

weesiwel · 5時間前

Glad TB responded but Idk I honestly don't think he's getting a lot of it.

badasskitty · 3時間前

Nah TB you are focussing on the negative & felt like making us feel like little children again. Veto! Also the kid will survive & the parents too

AKA_Sotof · 5時間前

Just being frank here... Anyone who has spent even a tiny of time on Reddit would have seen those comments about the kid coming a mile away. I certainly did, so surely other people did as well. At the end of the day this is just Reddit being Reddit and I don't see why it needs to be a big thing. You're not going to change it because this is how people behave when anonymous. Welcome to the Internet.

Drapetomania · 3時間前

I have to say, I lost a lot of respect for TB here. This is a complete non-issue. He's paranoid about being associated with some dumbasses and then focuses on about it.

Also, SJW isn't a dumb term. His argument on that has always been, frankly, terrible, but that's his issue to deal with if he's going to be nice to people that claim he's a racist and sexist and all sorts of nasty things. If he can't make the connection that there's distinct patterns of conduct with certain ideologies it's no skin off my nose.

He has no problem labeling people "trolls," uses the term "fanboys, but "SJW" is off the table? He's trying to defend people that are never going to respect him. There's not a bunch of ambiguity about people that term is thrown at; if he's going to call people "trolls" then there certainly is a thing such as an SJW.

Mothanius · 4時間前

I feel a sense of disappointment of the whole situation from him. I'll agree, he was right about disliking the fact that the kid was being name called. Unfortunately for him, it was a lose-lose situation for him.

If he said nothing, the hurtful comments were going to remain there. There is a good chance that the whole thing would blow over and be forgotten (truth be told, it will be forgotten sooner than later). However, there is also the chance of outside eyes associating those comments with TB (His fanbase personality = TB's personality).

Then, there is this situation where he called them out. Of course, since he did, someone of the 50K+ subs on this subreddit is going to reply. No matter what he said, they were going to reply. This caused a spiral that got to the point it did.

The thing about internet anonymity is that comments will be said and agreed with without the thoughts of repercussion. I can call anyone here a maggot-eating hot dog with no care in the world about how you feel, and there will be people who agree, people who disagree, while the majority won't care at all. In the end though, my opinion of you means jack-all and will be forgotten within hours. Granted with Reddit's system of upvotes/downvotes, it can make unsightly comments seem popular due to silent majorities.

However, anything he or Genna say has no anonymity and has an actual impact to the reader. In a sense, a redditor cares how they feel about reddit, because a redditor has a sense of attatchment to the form of media they use. So any comment by them is a comment about us, which can be insulting even if you were "innocent" of the crime in question.

I say we all just forgive the last few days and continue on.

StorkV88 · 4時間前

More ''people say mean things on the internet''? bah... I'll come back in a few months, hopefully everything will go back to normal.

shunkwugga · 3時間前

Very few people attacked the kid directly. More people used the kid as an example of shitty sound quality. A lot of people in the audience said that they didn't hear the kid when there in person. The problem is that the kid was picked up by the mic and there was nothing done to try to bring up the hosts and bring down the ambient noise.

shunkwugga · 2時間前

To respond directly to some of the stuff he posed in this:

Yes, the correct response is to be apathetic. Ask yourself two questions:

Do I know this person? Does this person represent me? If the answer is "no" to both, then why the fuck should you care what they have to say or what they do? As far as I know, TB knows literally none of us and the only person who represents him other than himself is Cris. Why should he care about what the sub does or says?

He's also stated that the company has no ties to the subreddit, and even when they did, they didn't represent his opinion. Why does he give a flying fuck about what we say? He shouldn't care. It's really easy to just not care. Just say "I don't know you." There, now you have no personal investment in that person or any other person with whom you are not personally acquainted with.

There's also the fact that he still can't help but read what goes on here and calls stuff to attention that he sees so that the mods hop on it. Chances are, mods aren't on here all the time otherwise the moderation would be more hastily done of negative comments, and not due to TB's spurring on. My question again: we don't represent him and he doesn't know us. Why does he bother coming here and reading in the first place? I understand he's in therapy to deal with the stress of his life, but surely this might have been a proposed solution. A complete social blackout would work.

Granted, I don't get the amount of harassment he does but I do see what he sees in other places online and I do get plenty of harassment because I make controversial comments. I just turn it into a game, finding more creative ways to tell someone to fuck off. I don't let it get to me because, again, I don't know this person. What they do in their lives has no effect on my own life at all.

HarithBK · 2時間前

to me the talk around the kids voice was not mean or spiteful it was frustration and annoyance over the quality of the setting. but then again i came in a day afterwards.

infact i was leveling an alt with a buddy of mine in WoW we call it a day we both lisen to the podcast and i think to myself "god that kid is loud and annoying" first thing when me and my buddy starts the next day he gose "holy fuck that kid was annoying" he dose not use reddit and that was the first thing he had to say about that video that is how deeply it cut into the quality of the video it is only natural for people upvote and feel the same way. it was not meant to be taken as a mean thing just the truth.

however lisening to this audio track from TB it feels like he knew it was an issue but since he had promised to upload it since he was only given a small room he was forced into a corner and figured it was not going to be a big issue. it feels like he regrets putting up the video and is frustraited over the quality of the end product and wants to distance himself from anything having to do with it.

i think TB did a misstake promising he would upload the event when he could not make sure it met the expected quality we have gotten. i think for future refrance he not promise an upload of events and only if the quality is up to standard should it pass and get uploaded.

A_Manslayer · 3時間前

So I haven‘t said anything about this whole mess till now, but now I have a question:

Is it nowadays, for parents and children a horrible thing to keep it down? Is this an american thing? I can very well remember being told by my parents to keep it down, when I was loud in public. I am also used to parents whose children don‘t keep it down being shunned, because it is impolite and paints a bad picture in public.

Also: to me people on reddit talk to each other like they would if they met in a bar. And that means its okay to be mildly rudish: fuck that kid is okay. Telling someone to kill theselves or going on long diatribes about them being worthless or whatever is not okay. But saying goddamn thats annoying, fuck that loud and annoying person is okay. And by the way I read nothing worse than the latter in that thread. Maybe I slept through the flame and mobbing.

Serum211 · 4時間前

I'm just going to say I'm done with this entire affair. I'm sad that people insulted the kid, I'm sad that the parent of said kid read the comments, I'm sad that TB got angry at the subreddit for it and I'm sad that the subreddit and TB now feel more apart from each other then they ever have. It is clear that we here on the subreddit and TB himself have very big disconnect.

nathan0905 · 3時間前

Making broad generalizations while admitting you are talking about a fringe is the kind of thing that caused gamers to be labeled as sexist. Don't worry,"Reddit doesn't have to be your audience tb!1!!111!" I thought he was going to stop reading reddit with how asinine we apparently are and how horrible we are, apparently he changed his mind...? So he turns of youtube because he hates the system, then has a reddit which he hates. Tell me more about how terrible your fan base is TB?

Solid_Waste · 1時間前

Oh shit he did the "As a parent..." Get it together TB.

bathrobehero · 4時間前

For fuck's sake, this sub has 54k users and just like any other community, a fraction of them are dicks. Calling out the whole subreddit because of that in front of 457k twitter followers which is a completely and utterly different medium and where it shouldn't even belong is the main problem.

And please, the top comments in that thread weren't particularily offensive and the majority of them wasn't about anyone in particular, people were just venting their annoyance with the generally bad audio because of constant yelling and laughing which is completely understandeable. A few of them were about the kid and they were dicks but I wouldn't go as far as they were "attacking the kid".

Just because redditors in general don't get superoffended over everything and doesn't tiptoe around everything and more honest doesn't render the community bad. It would have been infinitely better to just write one post in that thread or just ignoring the whole situation.

I know TB can't handle criticism very well (hence why youtube comments are disabled) but this is ridiculous.

locke4231 · 4時間前

I hardly ever post on this sub but I've got to say this: You cannot in one sentence condemn people for wanting to make a live podcast 18+ that contain adult topics and swearing and in the next argue about protecting children from mean people online.

mattiejj · 4時間前

I think the problem is that we aren't dads and TB is.

He wanted to protect a little girl because he felt she was attacked.

We didn't see the girl as a little kid, but just as the symptom of the sound-issues.

some_canuck · 2時間前

I'm sorry TB, but I'm seriously done with your shit. You can make this out to be an issue with a select few of your fans ragging on a child, but the sad fact is that you've constantly wanted a hugbox for years. If you don't get your way, you stomp and cry. It's partly why this subreddit continues to exist, and why we're not commenting on youtube anymore. So now you're stomping and crying again and shunning reddit. Well, I followed you the last time, but this time I'm done. Unsubbed from youtube and soundcloud, and I'm most likely to leave this subreddit in a couple weeks should this shitty behaviour of yours continue. If you don't want people criticizing you, then stop being a public figure.

MayhemMike · 2時間前

I'm sorry TB but this is a joke. This subreddit has 50k members, if you have a problem with how your fans here behave or how this sub is moded then come down from your high horse and talk to the people directly here in the sub instead of venting about them in a different place.

It would have taken maybe one hour or two of your time to sit down and explain your views here, maybe even reply to some nay sayers and the whole thing would have been over a day later but nope as always you blew it up as big as you could. Lets protect the child! Lets get Twitter involved! Brilliant!

ElyssiaWhite · 2時間前

I get really sad when I see the massive hypocrisy from John and Genna, because I get mad about it, and I hate being mad about TB.

KingGak · 5時間前

Didn't see that one coming.

Just joking, we all knew it was coming.

Viprajag · 3時間前

I think the problem is that people view this subreddit as a fan forum (which I would agree with) and when TB or Genna directly respond to things, its hard to know what to do with that. No one expects someone like TB to read much less respond to something they said on reddit of all places. If some random actor started directly responding to people on a random fan forum somewhere, people wouldn't know what to do. I really just think TB needs to realize that its not his job to police his fans, there are a lot of us and if he calls out every single time someone is a jerk, then who knows when hes gonna find time to do his videos. Its a tough situation but unless he wants this sort of thing to happen every week, then a hands off approach is the only thing he can do.

jamie980 · 3時間前

Can we just push all this aside and leave it as water under the bridge. Would rather just go back to commenting on the vids and such like that gamasutra article he just linked to (really interesting read should check it out). Hopefully it won't be brought up again in the next podcast or something like that and he uploads something tomorrow which just draws all the chatter away from it.

dgauss · 2時間前

This "controversy" is so dumb. WHO CARES?? Every live broadcast goes through this it seems. Every single one I frequent goes over the "annoying" fan bitch, the podcasters address it, fans get angry, podcaster gets angrier, fans that have nothing better to do but get angrier. NOTHING IS SOLVED. This is so dumb....

The original stuff was dumb and kids that had time to get on here first upvoted. The rest of us got on thought it was dumb and it was corrected. Some of work 9-5 and don't get to vote on these threads right away. OMG this is dumb. I am just going to ignore this bullshit until its over.

WittyViking · 31分前

If TB doesn't like people stating when something is bothering them then there is almost no reason for having a comment section.

Zankman · 5時間前

The nice people in the other thread(s) have convinced me to just chill about this whole ordeal. I still kinda feel pissy, but I think the mature thing is to, really, just let it go. No real point about it anymore.

People in this sub complained about an annoying laugh, saying that it hurt the podcast. TB and Genna generalized it in such a way as to blame every single user as being malevolent assholes and called the subreddit horrible.

It's obvious who was in the wrong here.

CynthiaCrescent · 5時間前

Only idealists are disappointed. Disappointment makes cynicism.

TypicalLibertarian · 4時間前

This is stupid. TB should take his own advice and just let this shit die. Continuing this drama is only going to make it worse.

mattinthecrown · 4時間前

We're getting real close to a SJW definition of terms like "bashing" and "harmed" at this point.

Maybe the parent should have exercised better judgement?

ETA: christ, he was this close to actually saying "safe space."

CBCronin · 4時間前

Truth be told, I only post here on reddit as there is no forum to discuss videos or current TB events. I have only up voted comments twice and never down voted, that aspect of this place just doesn't appeal to me.

NotARavenousBear · 3時間前

My biggest problem with this is that TB seems to think either he can be entirely uncaring or he can generalize the entire group, and there is no in between. He could have just said "People insulting the 12 year old are assholes" and it would have been fine. But he and Genna ended up grouping everyone together. Saying "the subreddit" or "this subreddit" references the entire subreddit. I was not involved in the insults, but I was still called an idiot and, even worse, was told I am associated with the people who would insult a 12 year old.He absolutely could have taken a middle ground with this, but he didn't, and now he says that there is no middle ground, when there clearly is. It is very clear that those people are the vocal minority. Even if the comments had hundreds of upvotes, that's still hundreds vs 54k. Every group of that large is going to have a large number of assholes. Almost everyone else on the subreddit has said that the comments insulting a 12 year old are awful. But TB still seems to think that is still what everyone cares about. What people actually care about is how they been grouped in with the people that they have actively gone against, and that TB and Genna still blame the entire subreddit. Most people would becompletly happy with a "To everyone who did not attack a child, and yet were shoved into the small group who were assholes, we apologize. And a big fuck you to anyone who insulted the kid". They have been very good at admitting their mistakes in the past, and I hope they can recognise so people were hurt when they were called idiots and grouped in with a bunch of child haters.

DeathMinnow · 3時間前

Continuing to make a mountain out of a molehill, honestly.

I'm pretty much always behind what you have to say even if I don't always agree. In this case, you're just wrong, TB. Saying something is annoying is not a personal attack against that person. I continue to support that "That kid was annoying." She was, sorry.

If you're talking about some horrible posts that I missed, then fine. But according to the mods, there wasn't that much to be removed.

Trilandian · 5時間前

He honestly should have just said nothing from the very start.

So some people were saying mean things about a kid's annoying laugh, and the kid's parent just happened to read it. Big whoop.

If he just said nothing, and maybe just PM'd that mother and said "We don't endorse this kind of behavior", it would have all just blown over, and would have never escalated to what we have now.

hery41 · 4時間前

Would it have made any difference if the annoying laugh came from a guy in his 20s?

LeKa34 · 2時間前

It's so difficult to discuss something like this when both sides have a completely different view on what even really happened.

I think calling this "child hate" is exaggerating. People just don't feel okay with having loud kids at something that can be considered an adult context. An M-rated movie, a nice restaurant, a panel with constant boob jokes. Kid's laughter just feels very out of place in a context like that. Sometimes people want to enjoy their grown-up content at a grown-up company. That's not child hate.

Of course a lot of the criticism was simply intended toward the audio setup. The mic happened to pick up the girl's voice, and the generally bad audio was a let down for a lot of people. That criticism is not for the girl, not her parents nor TB. The Dragon Con people did a shit job, maybe next year they do better. It's important to keep in mind that not every piece of criticism on this subreddit is meant for TB himself.

Fyce · 5時間前

Reddit is shit for the same reason it's awesome.

The upvote/downvote system is a very good tool in theory but is lacking on one particular point: it doesn't account for human behaviors (on the internet in particular).

Instead of being the good feedback system it should be, which would auto-regulate itself based on common sense and relevant/irrelevant posts, it allow this mob mentality where giving an upvote mean we agree on the post, rather than giving it praise for being constructive.

It works on some subreddits with "good" community, but here it's borderline harmful to the threads themselves where actual constructive comments are buried under the current "trend" ones going on...

... to the point where I'm really wondering why a subreddit is needed for Cynical Brit. It actually brings very little value to the community. Probably less than a regular forum.

redenti · 4時間前

child hate?^[citation ^needed]

solution: no 12 yo kids in a panel and if they are they need to proof they've grown a pair and can deal with tbs followers.

nathan0905 · 3時間前

It's irritating that TB is painting us the arse when most of the posts are still up, meaning that the mods clearly don't see it that way... I'm starting to get hugely angry at TB painting this subreddit as uphorent. What happened to "I'm not looking on the reddit anymore"?

disco91 · 2時間前

So this has been turned into a place where an valid criticism of TB gets censored. Well have fun with that guys, and remember you're a collected wart on his ball bag, or at least that's how he sees y'all.

Defiant_toast · 4時間前

Maybe it is time for Totalbiscuit to create his own website with a reddit like forums, with clear rules on what they accept and don't want happening.

weesiwel · 4時間前

Also just want to point out he wants rule 5 to be enforced more but rule 1 quite clearly includes not using up and downvotes for agreement and disagreement which is what he seems to also want. Surely all rules should be enforced.

Harrod200 · 4時間前

This is a very difficult problem, which few people will ever really understand both sides of. I can try, but as I don't have the following, and a reputation that in inescapably linked to that following, I can't get the full picture.

I believe that TB wants to maintain a link to the community, so that constructive criticism and suggestions can flow through and improve the channel; as an example, the addition of the 'current topic' ticker on the podcast has been pretty universally received, and was instituted based on feedback from here (I forget the OP).

This is a laudable goal, and one that I believe will always result in refinements and improvements to the channel. I believe that this falls down in that looking for these suggestions also exposes TB to the bile and trolls. Frankly, the only solution I can see here is for TB to stop personally viewing the sub, but for some filtering method to be put into place to pass the better ideas on to him. Perhaps if a specific thread gains traction, the mods can pass this up via mailbox@ or a private address. This would permit an idea to evolve and give some room for it to grow, while shielding TB from the rest of this place.

When it comes down to responding to behaviour here which TB disagrees with, I unfortunately do feel that he wants to both have his pocky and eat it. This is an unofficial community, therefore by definition it is independent of his editorial control and will on occasion do or say something which could potentially do reputational damage to his brand. The only way to truly distance himself from these comments is to ignore this community entirely. When TB responds in any way to something posted here in a manner which indicates he has read it himself, it only serves to give the whole place an air of semi-officialness. You cannot claim that this site is not representative of your brand, but still openly refer to it. The closest analogue I can see here is ARRSE; a community of British military personnel, but while I am sure the MOD keeps an eye on it, they will never admit to the site playing any part in its policy or guidance; aware but uninvolved and uncommenting is the only way to truly maintain distance.

If TB wishes to retain feedback from his followers, there are three ways forward that I can see. I'm not claiming these are the only methods, please feel free to add more if you can think of any.

The first is the method I posted above, whereby TB cuts all ties with this sub and receives only the feedback deemed constructive. YT metrics will give him more accurate feedback on a video's performance than this place ever could. Community interaction falls, but given how many people are seemingly offended whenever TB mentions anything from here, is this really a bad thing?

A new, official community is created, with much more aggressive moderation. This is very possible, but runs the risk of tying anything that does slip through the net to TB and causing much more reputational damage than an unofficial, arms-length group. It also runs the real risk of becoming an echo chamber, which would be of no use to anyone.

TB writes this place off as a lost cause and references Voat or another unofficial community. This does nothing to address the root problem, however.

I do hope that some solution can be found, as some form of community interaction will serve to strengthen the viewership. Perhaps though this should be limited to periodic Q&A sessions, and livestream chat?

I guess this post is no more of a solution than TB's soundcloud ramble. I want to see TB able to take feedback through some community-vetted mechanism, but to be shielded from the BS that comes from any anonymous gathering of people. Maybe that's not possible, or maybe it needs a drastic change somewhere. Maybe as someone who is not a content creator, I cannot understand the deep desire to read what people are saying about it, and that TB can never give this place up. I just hope for the best, and that somehow, some way is formed of keeping everyone reasonably content. Difficult problems. I'm sure corporations pay PR people a lot of money to handle this for them.

0.02

EDIT: Wow, that's a giant wall of text. Guess I didn't realise how much I rambled on.

chumppi · 57分前

When the podcast first came up in the Youtube subscriptions I clicked on it very excited to watch a Co-optional on my off day. The quality of the podcast was so unbearable so I closed it in the first 10 minutes.

I'm not a frequent visitor here I open the subreddit maybe once a week and come to this... I check the original threads and pretty much all of the comments are just fine. Are you only supposed to give criticism in a way that doesn't specify what's annoying? How does that even work? Sure, they might be criticizing the "10-12 year old girl" but how are they supposed to know a) her age b) she's a girl(like that would make any kind of difference?). I would argue with the content of the Co-optional podcast a 10-year old should not be listening to it and especially not brought to a live event where you can't censor and pre-watch the content yourself as a parent before this 10-year old?

I do not see what the problem is here. Does TB mean that the current top comments on that thread are bad or just the ones that are deleted/modified by moderators that TB was able to see before it? This is one of those things that's directly translatable to real life. People DO get told that their laugh is weird/annoying to their faces. This is not something that is prevelant only on the internet. Most people know they have an annoying laugh and it's ok.

How many people hate crying babies on planes? Quite a lot probably. People understand that babies are babies and they cry but they can still whine and COMPLAIN ABOUT IT NO?

Rokahr · 5時間前

I'm not going to listen to TB whining about his audience again for 20 minutes. Can someone give me a TL,DL?

I-See-A-Darkness · 5時間前

Frankly, the reaction from this subreddit to both the girl and TBs comments made me want to stop coming here. The comments were pretty damn vitriolic and got worse after TB commented and are continuing. I'll probably just stop coming here after this bs, if I wanted a bunch of drama and BS I'd go find threads in SRD.

TrueGlich · 5時間前

oook... I watched that pannel I don't remember any kid issue. perhaps i just filtered it out like a normal well adjusted person..

shillingintensify · 4時間前

The narrative pushing chugs along, why have they been they been going on about this so much, with blatant misrepresentation.

I can't tell if TB/Genna is unhinged or trying to make an enemy of his Reddit base.

No one cares about the kid, they do care about you smearing a shitty comment onto everyone.

Thrormurn · 3時間前

So people leveled criticism at a person which hurt their feelings and beause of it should be silenced by being banned from the subreddit.

Nice job holding yourself up to your own standarts TB, really nice job.

I am done with you and your content, goodbye.

WarlordZsinj · 2時間前

This is so aggravating on so many levels. The fact of the matter is that TB produces very high quality content and is generally reasonable with his video opinions. This video was not up to his level of quality, and it absolutely distracted from watching. That being said, anyone or anything at all making loud noises on a regular basis for an hour long video would do the same thing. Its not a stupid "anti child" or "child hate" issue and to think that is the case is really disingenuous of him.

An few easy solutions are to age restrict it in the future, and when uploading the footage from some other organization to go through the video and edit out the extraneous noise. Keep in the dumb comments because TB and crew did react to them, but nobody needed to hear that loud noise through the video.

What frustrates me the most is that both TB and Genna are using weaselly terms like toxic or problematic, neither of which actually explain what the issue is and are just general amorphous words to avoid having to say exactly what the issue is. This is the exact same thing that happened with the Reddit Revolt, GG, and any other of the incidents where an organization mass labels an entire group by using those words.

I have to say that this is really disheartening to hear, because TB is the only voice I really trust to accurately portray a game and deliver a recommendation. I'm afraid this this pattern is becoming more and more prevalent with him. Every few months something will happen, and someone or something will say something that isn't too charitable, but could be a valid topic. TB then freaks out, tweets something, posts a twitlonger, then eventually a soundcloud to talk about it. Its a regular cycle at this point, and its rather tiring.

ElvisNeedsBoats · 2時間前

What are the odds that TB called his wife a "Child hater" after the panel because of the "Markiplier" jab she gave the kid?

I wonder if he sat her down and gave her a 21 minute brow beating speech about how she made it a "sad day" for him?

Jesus Christ this is getting asinine. My loss of respect for him can be measured by tonnage per hour.

EDIT: It was Pewdiepie, not Markiplier.

DeRobespierre · 4時間前

The sad thing is the mods were trying to do stuff while reddit server were on fire. Unfortunate chain of events. For the 1st time I broke reddit that day.

Pomfinator · 3時間前

He said the most important thing so far. Create an official forum, and get rid of this upvote downvote bullcrap. Upvoting implies endorsement, so just do away with it, simple. Still get the hivemind, but at least forum posts arent weighted by the number of likes received.

itsRenascent · 3時間前

So if some mods "fucks up", can't you remove their status as a mod or am I missing something? It feels weird to give up a sub reddit as official due to some mods doing something they were not authorized to do.

Talic_Zealot · 3時間前

Didn't even know about the child thing until now.. Was it really that prominent of a thing here? If so it kind of explains some of the reactions to the other thread that popped up.

mrniceguy7766 · 1時間前

I personally loved the kid, I thought she was endearing.

Probably the problem with reddit how negativity can be so visible but doesn't show the opinion of the majority. You focus on a very small minority of comments/votes. 200,000+ views on the video and a few hundred may have commented/voted like that.

Yeah it sucks that people would make such comments and the parents had to see it but it's the internet. There are f'd up comments like that everywhere. I get riled up too, but sometimes you just got to take a deep breath and ignore it.

The reason you get these negative comments to the top is because people with negative feelings about something are more prone to do something about it. I don't know the term, but there is a technical term for it. The majority, like me, had no issue and moved on.

RMJ1984 · 1時間前

Personally i dont believe anyone here or anywhere else meant in any way to harass a kid. In most cultures even criminals get fucked up badly if they do anything bad to kids.

Finding someone annoying doesnt mean you hate them or anything. I remember once instance as a kid where i was at the dentist sitting in the waiting room with probably 20 or 30 other people. Some one came over and told me to shut the fuck up. Did that person hate me? was he or the other ones out to get me? unlikely.

Its just important to understand and learn for kids as well, that when you are outside in a public place gotta tone the voice down a bit.

What i would do to fix it, instead of writing more stuff out publicly, i would personally contact said family and make sure they are okay and everything is fine. Let her talk privately with people, again i havent seen the episode so i dont know if its TB or other people he kid wanted to me, but if it were me i would arrange a private get together, presents whatever.

Even right now, i dont know the kid. but i sure dont want any kid to be sad, hurt or unhappy, i would be the first to throw some money to buy her something nice.

In regards to this subreddit. Names copyright being affiliated with stuff you dont want. Would it not be a simple matter to just contact the right people and ask to get this subreddit closed. That is what i would do personally if it was something / some place that was so bad and i didn wanna be assosiated with it.

Last but not least, an official forum doesnt sound like a terrible idea. It would be a place to even revenew on ads "if not overdone" and a place to engage with the community.

But again what do i know, im not famous and i wouldn wanna be in a million years.

Cynicalbrit

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