It's sad by TotalBiscuit published on 2015/09/09 20:33:14 +0000 In which everyone ended up getting up hurt in an attempt to defend someone who couldnt defend themselves. Comment by soimeister I want to meet you. I've been watching your videos and streams foreveeeeeer. 2015/09/10 02:10:51 +0000 Comment by soimeister @6qjxc8fvesrj: lol 2015/09/10 02:09:01 +0000 Comment by soimeister @zombirate: Yup. #LTTArmy 2015/09/10 02:08:49 +0000 Comment by Brian Boudreaux They don't hate the child, they hate the constant annoying laugh and heckling that distracted from the podcast, regardless of whether it was from a child or not. If TB thinks his audience agreeing that this voice was a distraction (even if it wasn't a constructive criticism) is an indication that his fan base is filled with terrible people then there is no point of any comment section in any website. If we cannot express when there is something about the content TB produces that bothers us, then again there is no point for a comment section. While I agree with the general premise of those comments about the laughing and heckling, I do not condone the name calling and vitriol some people decided to use. If some people using nasty language discourages TB from creating new content then he is right, the internet is an awful place and without a forum with rules he enforces then there is no "safe" place for his videos. 2015/09/10 01:58:28 +0000 Comment by Zombirate LTT has had the same problem recently on their Intel unboxing. The reactions are rather disgusting. 2015/09/10 01:56:43 +0000 Comment by user223560001 As someone with actual real life problems (one of those being a citizen of a third world country) , I have to say this whole debacle has provided me with sufficient entertainment to point and laugh at. brb getting more popcorn 2015/09/10 01:55:39 +0000 Comment by Messier 51 @ryika: This shit isn't okay, and there is nothing wrong with condemning it. If people get defensive, then well you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Hopefully people think twice next time they want to complain about somebody and if they don't well then chances are nothing TB could have done would change that. 2015/09/10 01:48:14 +0000 Comment by Thermobanana Speaking as someone from the subreddit who did get rather upset at this whole debacle(due to a misunderstanding on my part, as it turns out), let me just say that if I'd heard this soundcloud to begin with I would have reacted VERY differently. I think you may be right that Reddit is not a great platform to determine a consensus - I also think that Twitter is perhaps not a great platform to make nuanced statements of disapproval. Soundcloud, however, seems to be an excellent platform - hearing you explain, in your own actual sound-words, your thought process and what specifically you took issue with and why has, I think, helped immensely to diffuse this situation. So, thanks for taking the time to record this TB. 2015/09/10 01:02:55 +0000 Comment by TotalBiscuit @david-johnson-886272928: I can't really relate to anyone that thinks its ok to just insult a child to make themselves feel better. I'm never going to be able to relate to that attitude because its so fundamentally wrong in my mind. Sorry. 2015/09/10 01:01:25 +0000 Comment by TotalBiscuit @vteck9: So let me get this straight, you liked that I responded to criticism, as long as that criticism didn't involve you...? 2015/09/10 01:00:08 +0000 Comment by Ryika @ryika: (And no, don't get me wrong: I'm not trying to put any blame on you. Of course people shouldn't have made those comments and it's not your job to police them. What I'm trying to say is: You are in a position where you can actally effect change and you've shown that you're very good at making good arguments, can influence people positively - you're missing an opportunity if you instead focus on condemning behavior.) 2015/09/10 00:59:39 +0000 Comment by Ryika You can't expect people to be perfect, people learn and become better by making mistakes. Things like this WILL happen and there is no way to prevent it. The whole story actually reminds me a lot of how bad parents react when their children have done something stupid. You could have used that opportunity to talk some sense into people by explaining what consequences their actions could have - most people would probably understand and put more thoughts into their actions next time. Instead, your first tweets read a lot like a (way to generalized) condemnation. Of course people get defensive when they feel attacked. Show them the consequences of their actions instead. 2015/09/10 00:53:25 +0000 Comment by Thiago Adriano I feel like the whole thing got out of control for no reason. I mean, I agree with your original opinion that there is no reason to point out the kid, but the internet is the internet and the internet has strong opinions sometimes and it doesn't care too much about whom it's talking. Having said that, I would say that the correct way for you to deal with a reddit problem would be to address the reddit people in the reddit itself. Bringing the issue to a much larger platform felt like you were calling people out and weaponizing your twitter audience to make the reddit folk as a whole feel bad about it. 2015/09/10 00:51:17 +0000 Comment by David Johnson People have a real hard time distinguishing between leveling criticism, and being outright insulting. And no, the First Amendment doesn't necessarily give them all-encompassing, all-inclusive power to hurl insults in the name of criticism. They want to be able to say what they want, then turn around and get pissy when people call them out about it. Unfortunately, it is a no-win situation. But I don't think that means you should turn your back on it TB. You have every right to criticize them, just like they felt they had the right to insult that child. 2015/09/10 00:37:28 +0000 Comment by Nielk1 @dandy-fapples: This is public, no need to apologize for directing me a question. I have no problem. I was trying to illustrate through my own personal feelings how other people have those same feelings. These feelings were defeated by my logical mind in a mere few moments, as TB said it would be insane for me to personally have an issue. However, I still had that gut reaction, and I thought it was instructive to explain why others took great offense. This damned one line text field is making writing something sensible a bit difficult though. 2015/09/10 00:28:19 +0000 Comment by vteck9 I used to really like TB because he was one of the few youtubers who actually responded to criticism and improved things based on what fans said. Now it's completely different. Youtube comments are still off, years down the line even with g+ integration (the original reason for the shut off) winding down Twitch chat is sub only (meaning only people who like his content enough to pay for it and therefore most likely agree with him can talk) TB rarely even looks at the subreddit that he himself advertised as a replacement for the youtube comments He's blocked people on twitter for criticism (not insults, criticism) And now he blows up at all his fans for the actions of a few people. I get that cancer is hard and cemo is a terrible thing to go through, but it just seems like TB has changed for the worse since then. I remember when he used to rave against shitty devs censoring criticism on their forums, now it seems like TB is doing the very same thing by isolating himself. 2015/09/10 00:27:46 +0000 Comment by Dandy Fapples @nielk1: Sorry, I know your words weren't directed to me, but what are you going on about? As TB stated, it was entirely about the subreddit, if you feel 'targeted', that's your problem. 2015/09/10 00:10:13 +0000 Comment by Tovarischi @tovarischi: I suppose I should finish the thought I started with as well. I think the only mistake TB made was saying he didn’t like how “a ton of people” were ragging on the girl; it’s still pretty mild, but I think it might help explain why so many people took it personally. I do think this response is perfect, though, because there's no way to construe it as a generalized attack. 2015/09/10 00:00:42 +0000 Comment by Tovarischi I just went back and read through TB's twitter. Jesus, that tweet where he brought up the issue of people bashing a 10 year old was incredibly mild! I have to admit that my initial reaction was out of proportion. It felt like an attack on the entire community, but now I look back it very clearly wasn't. To me, this is very interesting; why are we (as gamers and consumers of games media) so quick to jump to the defensive? I suspect it has to do with a perception that we are under constant attack by SJWs and the like (even if the attacks aren't constant, they do tend to lump us together quite unfairly, something I think TB can sympathize with). All I would ask of TB is that he try to understand why we have this tendency to be defensive, I think it might make it easier to interact with us in the future. 2015/09/09 23:51:40 +0000 Comment by MrMilkshake What exactly are you saying here, people on the internet are dicks ? with the greatest respect man your rambling. People are dicks on the internet. All of this changes nothing. People get called out, look sheepish then go right back on being dicks. I think this is a converstation you should have had with your wife or freinds, rather than the internet. 2015/09/09 23:43:31 +0000 Comment by NooneInParticular I don't condone the insulting, but there is a large difference between commentary and criticism. Reddit is just for comments - people stating whatever was on their mind - they don't have to provide something constructive. If people watched the video and the child's laughter was distracting or annoying them, then that's what will be on their mind, and what they'll comment about. Just take a step back from the subreddit and let it be, you can't hope to control everything people say on there. Instead just make it clear that the views of the subreddit are not your own. 2015/09/09 23:30:44 +0000 Comment by Kristian Ilianov Iliev So I'm extern to all this drama and this is what it looks to me: people are whining about an annoying laughter between themselves. So what? Did they attack her or something? I mean it looks like a pretty unsignificant thing that happened .-. 2015/09/09 23:30:42 +0000 Comment by Arjen de Haan 1 Hey, TB. Thanks for your words on the topic. I wasn't really on either side of this debate, since I hadn't seen the podcast yet, but I can understand how hard it is to demonstrate you don't condone a certain kind of behaviour without either generalizing too much or literally pointing fingers at specific people. For what it's worth, I think you and Genna handled it all really well. 2015/09/09 23:30:09 +0000 Comment by Eric Huntzberry I think posts like this are a lot better than tweets or even twitlonger. It's so much easier to understand your intentions and emotions when you're speaking off the cuff and we can hear your tone of voice. Best of luck in the future. 2015/09/09 23:09:27 +0000 Comment by Nielk1 @totalbiscuit: Let ME try to make this simpler. I had no issue with either voice, and in fact as to the first incident prefered the voice. I am trying to explain to you WHY you are having this issue using my kneejerk personal feelings as an example, bceause I am the example human in this case. These are personal feelings I did not act on, because I am cognizant of this human nature. Now I am trying to explain this human proclivity to YOU. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clearly understandable. 2015/09/09 23:07:24 +0000 Comment by Sebastian Kärrman Well, for what it's worth, I think that where you're going with this is in the right and honourable direction. Maybe if we're all a tad more respectful to one another we can have a world for Idealistic Biscuits? 2015/09/09 23:04:18 +0000 Comment by TotalBiscuit @gingernatt: Well honestly neither are ok because we had zero control over any of the aspect they're complaining about, which we were also very clear about. If they wanted to criticise any aspect of that panel that wasnt directly related to the things we actually said at it (the only thing in our control), then those complaints should have been addressed to Dragoncon, not us. 2015/09/09 23:01:53 +0000 Comment by TotalBiscuit @nielk1: Let me try and make this simpler. If you are not even part of the subreddit, then there is absolutely ZERO way you could construe anything I said as a condemnation of your behavior. It is impossible. You would have to be irrational or deliberately misconstruing my words, because it was made crystal clear what I meant. Not that it didn't stop other people getting offended anyway but at least they have a vague excuse since they are part of the subreddit. You have no excuse. It would be like if you had blonde hair and got offended that I mocked a ginger, believing it to be insulting towards you. You have no justification. 2015/09/09 23:00:51 +0000 Comment by Hippoli The podcast was largely fine in my opinion, but I would be lying if I think that having young children in the audience did not make me feel weird. With how often adult themes come up within the Podcast I personally think the panel should have been 15/16+ years only next time. Beyond that, harassment is unacceptable, but I don't think it is largely reddit's fault. The vocal majority is always going to be a thing, forever, on any website or system. 2015/09/09 22:57:55 +0000 Comment by User 621391501 I think official regular forums would be a good idea like the CohhCarnage forums, a nice community over there. I have never been to the subreddit because, well, it's reddit. 2015/09/09 22:55:16 +0000