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[–]Infamously_Unknown 218ポイント219ポイント  (57子コメント)

became the oldest heir apparent in history..

I think you mean in British history. For example some of the Saudi heirs were almost as old as the queen.

[–]iamlogris 107ポイント108ポイント  (37子コメント)

They don't have the same system of inheritance though.

[–]Infamously_Unknown 7ポイント8ポイント  (20子コメント)

So what, that doesn't change anything about what I said.

[–]new_to_the_game 61ポイント62ポイント  (18子コメント)

It kinda does.

Hell, I could argue a claim that I am the heir to the presidency because if enough people die then I'm likely to get it.

Anyone could make the claim to be an heir.

No one has that position in the way he does.

[–]Infamously_Unknown 8ポイント9ポイント  (15子コメント)

"Heir apparent" means that you'll either die before the monarch, or you'll succeed.

That clearly applies to Saudi crown princes, no silly sophistry about the rest of the population dying required.

[–]love_butter 22ポイント23ポイント  (7子コメント)

False. Heir apparent - an heir whose claim cannot be displaced by the birth of another. It has nothing to do with closeness to death.

[–]elneuvabtg 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Oooh, false by omission: Heir apparent - An heir apparent is a person, male or female, who is first in line of succession and cannot be displaced from inheriting by the birth of another person.

Pretty sneaky and dishonest of you to omit the very part of the definition that "disproves" your claim of false!! Nicely done.

[–]love_butter -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

That actually strengthens my argument, his claim that the Saudis have lots of heirs apparent that are older is false. They are not heir apparent. The Saudi succession is not a clear lineage.

[–]elneuvabtg 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

?That actually strengthens my argument, his claim that the Saudis have lots of heirs apparent that are older is false. They are not heir apparent. The Saudi succession is not a clear lineage.

I was not commenting on the actual claims regarding Saudis, rather the demonstrably false claim that an "heir apparent" in general is not required to be next in line. They are.

However, on the subject of Saudi Royalty, we would use the term Heir Presumptive, not Heir Apparent, to describe the more fluid nature of the heir and that their place can be taken by "better" claims, even though Muhammad bin Nayef was appointed Heir Apparent this year.

[–]Megatwan 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

[Meme of crowd with gasping, hands on face, dude with glasses walking near the cam goes here]

[–]Infamously_Unknown 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

an heir whose claim cannot be displaced by the birth of another

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. No birth in the Saudi royal family can displace the current heir.

[–]Fascist_Pink 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Doesn't Saudi Arabia have brothers come before sons?

Primogeniture is the European tradition when we talk about heirs. I'd argue the Saudis don't count, just like Kievan Rota succession wouldn't.

[–]Geter_Pabriel 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

They do a type of seniority succession.

[–]splat313 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't follow Saudi royalty, but I believe crown princes are appointed by the king. In 2014 King Salman appointed his half brother as crown prince (and heir apparent) but sacked him 3 months later and named his nephew crown prince (and heir apparent)

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2015/04/29/saudi-politics-idUKL5N0XQ01X20150429

[–]ExiledApprentice 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

When you say sacked...is that medival sacked or 2015 sacked?

[–]splat313 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, he retained his head if that is what you're asking.

[–]RScannix 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, if a brother is able to succeed as in the Saudi case, you are much more likely to have an elderly heir.

[–]Nope_______ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You aren't the heir apparent. Heir and heir apparent aren't the same thing. Just sit back down.

[–]MegaZambam -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes it does, since the different system means none of them are the heir apparent.

[–]kenbw2 1ポイント2ポイント  (15子コメント)

What system do they have?

[–]iamlogris 20ポイント21ポイント  (8子コメント)

So the British Monarchy (and all the monarchies of the Commonwealth) have what is called Primogeniture; the eldest living child of the ruler at the time of the ruler's death will inherit. (It goes further with a recent parliamentary declaration that gender of the eldest child doesn't matter). So, when Lizzy 2 dies, Chuckles gets the throne, unless he's dead, too. In which case it passes to the next kid. And so on and so forth.

In Saudi Arabia, the Crown Prince (heir apparent) is selected by the ruler of the House of Saud, but generally follows an issue of Seniority; it goes to the eldest member of the Saudi royal family, be that some uncle or brother or cousin or what have you of the recently deceased monarch. (It goes further to stipulate only men can inherit, and the inheritance can only be traced through the male line of the family.)

[–]LearnsSomethingNew 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

If Chuckles dies before Lizzy 2 kicks the bucket, it goes to Billy, since he's Chuckles first born, no?

[–]atruenorthman 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes, for the purpose of selecting the successor it assumes no child of the current ruler died. So the child of a dead heir apparent will be the new heir apparent.

[–]CheezyXenomorph 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

And now we have georgie porgie along to ensure that harry potter never has to put his freckled ginger ballsack anywhere near the throne.

[–]iamlogris 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I feel like the correct answer is yes.

[–]LearnsSomethingNew 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Therefore after Chuckles it does not go to Lizzy's #2 but Chuckles #1

[–]Alib668 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUY6HGqYweQ this is all thats needed to explain the way the crown in uk works

[–]SirSpaffsalot 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So, when Lizzy 2 dies, Chuckles gets the throne, unless he's dead, too. In which case it passes to the next kid. And so on and so forth.

I feel it's necessary to clarify that if the monarchs first born child and therefore first in line to the throne has a child themselves, then that childs right of succession takes precedence over the monarchs other children.

[–]ThirdFloorGreg 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The eldest legitimate child, not the eldest living child. If the eldest child is dead or Catholic, their eldest child would inherit rather than their sibling. Prince Charles' younger brother, Prince Andrew, is 6th in line, after a two year old and a 4 month old.

[–]nolan1971 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

Seniority. The most senior member of the clan becomes king.

(Which is a really good law to enact, if you can manage to get it. :))

[–]LearnsSomethingNew 21ポイント22ポイント  (2子コメント)

Except you quickly end up with a series of old farts as kings that die very quickly one after another. No long reign bonuses in seniority.

[–]nolan1971 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's what the "plot to kill" button and intrigue focus is for.

[–]LearnsSomethingNew 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Court members are all filthy rich and decadent. No one's got good intrigue or interest in court politics.

[–]temalyen 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't know. Elective Monarchy is pretty good, too.

[–]nolan1971 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Everybody says that! I don't really like it, though. Oh well.

[–]keithybabes 55ポイント56ポイント  (13子コメント)

Yeah. Nobody cares about any other country's monarchs. Like when anybody mentions the Queen, we know who we're talking about. Like the fact that we don't have our country's name on our coins or stamps 'cos they have the Queen's head on them and that's quite enough.

[–]mightbetellinglies 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh so that's who that bird is!

[–]Bladelink 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

Queen of a country that doesn't suck, mostly. That puts Saudi Arabia out.

[–]SambalRahmani 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

Saudi Arabia has queens?

[–]Bladelink 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

Actually, I have no idea, but thought they were some sort of monarchy. I guess my point was that I couldn't think of any other first world country with a queen.

[–]SambalRahmani 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

Denmark has a queen. She comes from the longest reigning house in the world!

[–]Bladelink 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Huh, no shit. I've heard not but snazzy things about Denmark.

[–]Bayern07 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Netherlands, Spain, and Sweden have monarchies as well.

[–]Bladelink 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well. I guess I am not worldly.

[–]SambalRahmani 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

True, also Queen Rania from Jordan is freaking HOT!

[–]richhamster 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Saudi Arabia is ruled by their monarchy; I think people care..

[–]jcarlson08 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You don't have your country's name on your stamps because your country invented the postage stamp. Other countries had to put their names on their stamps to distinguish from the OG stamps.

[–]The_Prince1513 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well that's what happens when you have 60 fucking children

[–]Chubiruba 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

No, he's definitely the oldest in terms of "waiting in the succession line"

[–]nough32 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I thought it was the longest waiting heir apparent...

[–]Z_T_O 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

British history.

Yes, history.