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Found CP on bf's computer/Phone (self.legaladvice)

Nekochick が 投稿

Hello, I have been with my boyfriend for a year now. We recently got our own place in April. Well, this Thursday I went on his phone searching for a video of our cat when I came across numerous child pornography videos and also numerous pictures of underage children. I also found videos on his pc as well. I am completely devastated. I confronted him and he admitted he does have sexual thoughts towards children. He said he feels like a monster and wants therapy. I feel completely different about him now. I can't even look at him. Can I get in trouble for not reporting what I seen on his phone and computer? Are there actual therapist that can really help with pedophilia? I am located in New Jersey.

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[–]Lehk 107ポイント108ポイント  (10子コメント)

He said he feels like a monster and wants therapy.

well, he didn't want therapy enough to seek it out before he got caught.

unless you relish the thought a SWAT team raid in the future, you should probably get out of there, and call the cops on him.

We recently got our own place in April.

if you mean bought a house together, a partition suit+ sheriff sale wastes a great deal of the value often so try to work out a mutual agreement to sell and split the proceeds, he will need the money for his criminal defense so it shouldn't be too hard to get him to agree without having to go to court.

[–]captainAwesomePants 18ポイント19ポイント  (4子コメント)

well, he didn't want therapy enough to seek it out before he got caught.

This is reportedly trickier than it might seem. Savage Love did an article on this a while back, and there's a real danger that, if he lives in the US, his therapist might have a mandatory reporting requirement. For example, if he has any children, simply telling a therapist might immediately lead to them being taken away.

That said, if he doesn't work with kids (and I hope he does not) and doesn't have any kids, therapy is (probably) a really good idea.

[–]wise-up 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

This doesn't apply to OP as long as they continue to live in NJ, but California now mandates that therapists must make a report if a patient admits to viewing CP. The actual practical details of this mandate are still a bit unclear, but this mandate does not require an imminent threat of harm, nor does it require suspicion that the patient is molesting, or at risk of molesting, a child - we are now required to report patients who view CP regardless of whether we believe the patient poses a threat to children.

Many of us are opposed to this new development. I absolutely believe that people who watch CP are taking part in the abuse of children, but I'm also concerned that this new mandate will make it more difficult for pedophiles who have viewed CP, but have not molested children, to seek treatment. However, we're now required to report, and similar legislature may be imminent in other states as well.

[–]Lehk 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

For example, if he has any children, simply telling a therapist might immediately lead to them being taken away.

are you suggesting children should not be taken away from a pedophile?

[–]Pravin_LOL 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's suggesting a reason why the claim to want treatment without having previously sought it out might be credible.

[–]Nekochick[S] 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

No, an apartment. I have minim wage job I could never afford my own place with what I am making currently. I don't have anywhere I could go. Family doesn't have the room or friends live with relatives etc.

[–]malachi23 47ポイント48ポイント  (0子コメント)

Most cities of size or with colleges have roommate matching services which the landlords pay for as an advertising cost. Some apartment complexes do in-house roommate matching as well. Neither is ideal, but staying in a house with a pedophile is worse.

[–]Lehk 27ポイント28ポイント  (0子コメント)

if you explain the situation i am sure someone can come up with room on a couch for you while you get on your feet.

[–]obnoxiouslybigrobot 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Family doesn't have the room

You sure about that? I'm thinking if you told them your boyfriend is a pedophile with a collection of child porn, they would make some room.

[–]SoMuchMoreEagle 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Look for a room to rent or share on Craigslist.

[–]chrismichaels3000 18ポイント19ポイント  (11子コメント)

For the lawyers out there.....

Based on her posts, OP seems like she wants/needs to stay in that apartment (and with her BF or ?now exBF) for financial reasons. A question regarding her possible situation... lets assume:

  1. She remains in the apartment living with her BF/exBF/roommate.

  2. The BF/exBF/roommate continues to keep CP on his phone and/or computer.

  3. As OP is a roommate, she has access to said devices.

Can OP then be charged in some way by any law enforcement agency if/when the BF/exBF/roommate's apartment is searched for CP?

[–]WD40nDuctTape 16ポイント17ポイント  (3子コメント)

OP, you need to be aware of this statute under the United States Code: Misprision of a Felony, which may influence your decision:

Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

Possession of CP can be, and often is, prosecuted federally. Protect yourself.

[–]gnorrn 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wouldn't OP need to "conceal" it though?

[–]Jan_van_Bergen 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have a cousin who got convicted of a sex crime for failing to report her ex husband for sleeping with a minor. She walked in on the dude and then left, and later filed for divorce, but never called the cops. Not sure how relevant that is here, but she's a registered sex offender now.

If I were OP, I wouldn't risk not reporting it. Plus, reporting is the right thing to do. Viewing CP creates the market, which leafs to further exploitation. Viewing is just as bad as forcing kids to do it.

[–]oEMPYREo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I thought we had no duty to report a crime?

[–]apexian 35ポイント36ポイント  (4子コメント)

Generally, no, you have no legal obligation to report it. There are laws that require people employed in certain professions (like doctors, teachers, counselors, etc.) to report suspected child abuse. But if you were in such a profession, you would already be aware of this.

But should you report it? That's not really a legal question. But don't be surprised if you get some opinions on that question here.

[–]Kelv37 36ポイント37ポイント  (1子コメント)

Don't want to put my opinion in a top level comment but I would be devastated if I didn't report something like this and he went on to molest a child. Like suicidal devastated. Obviously my profession as a police officer aside.

[–]bearjuani 27ポイント28ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not to mention CP isn't victimless (unless it's drawn or something). He might not have actually abused anyone but that doesn't mean he's being ethical.

[–]justthistwicenomore 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

But should you report it? That's not really a legal question. But don't be surprised if you get some opinions on that question here.

Actually, were I in this situation I would wonder about constructive possession. She clearly knows about the material and has access to the phone, so at this point it's possible that she could be charged with something (even if it wouldn't stick) depending on the local law.

[–]taterbizkit 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, GTFO is really not a question. She needs to GTFO.

She probably has no duty to report though.

[–]TacoDinosaurPower 73ポイント74ポイント  (20子コメント)

Can I get in trouble for not reporting what I seen on his phone and computer?

Who cares. Turn him in.

He's not the victim, you're not the victim. Those children are.

[–]pavel_lishin 9ポイント10ポイント  (19子コメント)

Who cares. Turn him in.

OP might care if she ends up being charged with something alongside him.

[–]TacoDinosaurPower 46ポイント47ポイント  (18子コメント)

What exactly would OP get charged with here? She found CP. She turned him in. No prosecutor in the world would go after her too. How exactly do you think CP peddlers get caught? Using your logic no one would ever call the cops.

[–]Morten_Kringelbach 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Talk to a lawyer if you wish to proceed with any sort of communication with authorities. By all means do not just call the police and try to explain it to them. If you believe he is the creator of those images, you should set up contact with lawyer/officials on moral grounds alone.

If he is caught, the FBI might monitor your email/data simply because of your relationship with him.

Your next move should be leaving him and distancing yourself from him as much as possible.

[–]Aghast_Cornichon 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

Can I get in trouble for not reporting what I [saw] on his phone and computer?

Probably not.

New Jersey has a stronger "mandatory reporter" law than most other States; even nonprofessionals are required by law to report child abuse or neglect immediately and can be criminally charged with a disorderly persons offense if they do not.

But OP's BF's crime is not child sexual abuse. It's criminal possession of a specific type of contraband, and it's very serious, but it is not by itself child sexual abuse.

New Jersey, to my knowledge, has no general duty to report a felony crime. My knowledge on that specific matter is scant.

OP's BF's crime is almost certainly a Federal felony because he used the Internet. At the Federal level, there is a crime called "Misprision of Felony". It's 18 U.S. Code Section 4, and specifically requires that the offender both know about the felony and actively act to conceal it.

So if OP helped her BF wipe his hard drive or destroy his phone she might conceivably be guilty of that crime. But it's extremely uncommon for that charge to be filed except against government officials who cover up crimes.

Are there actual therapist that can really help with pedophilia?

Yes. Most pedophiles are themselves victims of child sexual abuse, and nobody suggests that rape victims are beyond help.

The problem that I see is that if OP simply departs the situation and relies upon his assurances that he is seeking therapy, she is left with the uncertainty that he actually has. His therapist could not tell her anything about what they discuss with him.

If I were in OP's shoes, I would contact the New Jersey Coalition Against Sexual Assault (http://njcasa.org/find-help/) and talk to their counselors. She's trying to prevent sexual offenses and help somebody she cares about.

A handful of resources are mentioned at the end of Luke Malone's powerful piece about non-offending (some would say not-yet offending) pedophiles, which was also broadcast on This American Life a few months ago.

https://medium.com/matter/youre-16-youre-a-pedophile-you-dont-want-to-hurt-anyone-what-do-you-do-now-e11ce4b88bdb

Or simply call the cops on your way out the door.

[–]fastbeemer 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

IANAL, but I have experience from your side of this situation. Call the cops tomorrow, sorry, it will suck, and it will be humiliating, but think of the kids you will help.

On October 1st of 2012 my then 5 year old told me that her uncle (my brother) had been touching her inappropriately. I went over and confronted him about it, and he admitted to it. I called the cops right then. During the investigation they found CP on his computer, including pictures he had taken of my girls and had exchanged them.

His case got transferred to the federal system, and I've been told he will get out sometime in 2030.

As the father of a child who was a victim and had their pictures shared, I beg you to turn him in tomorrow. If they can get the videos and pics he had they can start looking for those victims. The sooner you turn him in, the more chance the authorities have of rescuing the children in those pics and videos.

As for you, when you call the police department ask for a victim's advocate to respond (you are a victim as well, if only by circumstance), they have programs that will help you maintain your life while you figure out what you are going to do next.

If you want to PM me, I can share more of my story, or answer more personal questions.

But please, for those kids, turn him and the evidence in so they can attempt to trace them.

Side note: they traced a couple of my daughters pics to others who traded in CP, his arrest led to multiple other arrests, but we know there are still pics floating around out there.

[–]BitchPleaseMe 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Call the police.

[–]76oakst 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

These people are only interested in prosecuting the bf and have no regard for this poor girl's life or the legal war that she would initiate by calling in police.

Speak to a therapist and explain your situation completely - this removes the "you knew but didn't say anything" issue. See what they suggest based on your circumstances. If after discussing with a therapist they also advise you to seek legal counsel because of the situation, at very least you have an ally to talk to throughout the hell of an ordeal that's about to open up.

[–]igegaoe 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'll try to tackle the legal question of therapy. Once convicted, sex offenders are typically required to go through court-ordered therapy. As to the question of effectiveness, it's hard to say. Can it help people to not re-offend? Sure. Does it actually take away the desire? Who can say? I'd guess no.

There is one more legal (and something he can submit himself to) consequence that we don't see used too often: castration, usually chemical castration. Success rates seem to be pretty high with this one. The only thing that sucks is that it is castration.

If he does submit himself to therapy before he is charged, he will probably to talking to someone who IS a mandated reporter. Either way, this is probably going to get out. I'd recommend you be honest about it and cut off ties. Your job now may not make this a requirement, but if you ever want a career that looks at moral turpitude, this could look like a positive or a negative thing depending on what you do.

NAL, but am a mandated reporter, freely admit I am biased in every way on this, but I did try to keep it to legal information.

[–]Johnfriction19 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

IANAL and these links aren't from legal sources. From a therapist perspective, use of child pornography may or not be reportable. California specifically mandates it:

https://www.camft.org/images/PDFs/AttorneyArticles/Cathy/Understanding_Mandated_Reporting_Requirements_AB1775.pdf

...However, that's California. On the other hand, this guidance to psychiatrists specifically says possession of CP is not a mandatory report:

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/special-reports/mandatory-reporting-suspected-child-abuse

I know I'm blending therapists and medical doctors here, but in terms of mandatory reporting the statutes are usually the same. You also get into differing professional ethical standards. Bottom line, a therapist might not report this unless there's suspicion the person was involved in producing the CP.

OP, you should report this though, period.

[–]igegaoe 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is solid information, thank you.

[–]lennyp4 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

There's a good chance he's already destroyed/hid evidence, mind you

[–]SidSuicide 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Even if someone has been deleting things from a computer/device, you do realize that it doesn't actually just disappear, right? Computer crimes specialists can actually recover deleted data and download/upload logs. They can also simply tap into your service provider to see where someone downloaded or received the files from. It is incredibly hard to destroy evidence from a computer that thoroughly.

[–]binarycow 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

And there are ways to destroy evidence that thoroughly. For instance, if I were to have downloaded the data on someone else's wifi (driving around the neighborhood, for instance), made no backups of any sort, and then degaussed / shredded the HDD... No way you're getting data from that.

[–]lennyp4 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't want to start arguing about logistics here, but child porn is not easy to find, he probably knows what he's doing

[–]DukeMaximum 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Report him immediately. If it can be shown that you knew he was in possession of child porn and you didn't report it, yes, charges could be filed against you as well.

He says he wants to go to therapy, but he didn't say that until he got caught. And all the regret he's feigning now didn't keep him from downloading the material in the first place.

Report him now, please.

[–]drt-nap 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

OP, best of luck with this. Your life has just changed drastically, more than you know quite yet. To say nothing of your BF's. He is in for a very, very hard time. Remember, these were his choices to make, and it is not a burden for you to bear, though the pain will be real on your side as well.

Depending on your profession, you may in fact be a mandated reporter, even though he was not directly abusing children. And in this case, if he gets caught down the road for CP (a distinct possibility), DYFS/police may come back on you - again, depending on your profession, but it could lead to a loss of licensure or other unpleasantries if you were found to have had knowledge of this without saying anything. Just putting that out there so that you are informed, while we know next to nothing about your exact situation.

Right or wrong, a NJ prosecutor CAN and might make your life a living hell IF they think it will aide in achieving their goal, which is after all, the Greater Good. Attorneys, DYFS/detectives will tell you that you now need to respect the process and that the good thing is that it is out of your hands once you notify. That means that right now, you should assume that everything is on the table. Note: your BF's assertions regarding therapy, best intentions, etc are meaningless at this point in the eyes of the law. The prosecutors want one thing above all: to achieve a conviction. No slap on the wrist and go do therapy. It doesn't necessarily mean prison but they cannot be seen as allowing CP to go unpunished. Nor do we want to allow this behavior to go unpunished in a society. Hence the situation before you.

If there is anything you own that you would prefer is not looked at, carefully arrange for it to be out of the apartment.

If I knew what county you were in, I could recommend someone you could speak with right now, but that is all against the rules of this sub. Another answer in here mentioned speaking with a lawyer. Having first hand knowledge of a situation like this one, this is the best advice you could take right now. They will at least guide you into the process so that you are informed and will let you know of any concerns you need to be mindful of. Remember that once you start this process, you are not looking for legal advice or assistance from the local prosecutor. Their goal is not to keep you informed, nor is it to keep you from being inconvenienced down the road. There will likely be statements taken and possibly subpoenas for a grand jury. I do not recommend that you sit for a statement in a police station without having an attorney by your side. This is common, and the mere fact that you are voluntarily sitting and giving a statement is enough show of good faith. If asked why, or given any attitude, just remember that the interviewing detectives are not tasked with assisting you in any way. That is your attorney's job.

These are just my 2 cents, from experience. Good luck. You already have a broken relationship with the BF. You can't close that barn door anymore. Now it's time to help those poor kids who were forced into whatever it was you looked at.

[–]Icedog68 -1ポイント0ポイント  (11子コメント)

Do you think he really wants therapy? You know him better than some strangers on the Internet. Is he a good person (other than the pedophilia). He didn't decide "I'm going to be turned on by CP". But don't just not do anything. You should probably either get him to seek help with a licensed professional or turn him in. Don't sit by and nothing. Although maybe the "I want to get help" is just an excuse after him being caught in the act. From what the others said, there's no legal obligation, so it's really more of a moral issue.

[–]Nekochick[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (10子コメント)

Yes, I think he does. He hates that he has the thoughts and like I said feels like a monster. He wants to do all it takes to get help. He has never done any wrong to me at all. We had a very good relationship.

[–]ninjette847 21ポイント22ポイント  (5子コメント)

A lot of people get help before contributing to the demand for cp. Do you think he would ever get help if you hadn't found it? The fact that he has it means he's passed the "hasn't harmed anyone" point.

[–]Decline_of_reddit -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

As Devil's Advocate, I put forward that if it is a consensus that one cannot choose or change sexual orientations or urges, then considering the possibility of a therapist calling the cops, and the certainty that possession charges and sex offender registration would mean the loss of livelihood and homestead, and a lifetime of humiliation, social ostracization, and possible retributive violence, hiding one's pedophilia would be the better strategy of self interest to enjoy any semblance of a life.

A lot of people don't "get help" for a lot of things until they have been confronted by people close to them. I've had to do something similar for a friend who was in serious depression and would not go to a therapist in fear of being taken away to a mental facility.

[–]FirstWaveMasculinist 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

sexual orientations

rape is not a sexual orientation. 'child' is not a gender. this is not comparable with victims of homophobia saying "i was born this way!" Non-straight people are attracted to adults/people of the same age who are able to consent to sex/porn. Children are unable to consent, which is why pedophilia is not a sexual orientation.

and sexual urges can be controlled by people who are not criminals.

[–]Decline_of_reddit 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Please note how I said,

sexual orientations or urges

Pedophilia falls under the urges category. You can call it "sexual attraction" or whatever. Either way, sexual orientation and/or attraction are not qualified by consent, they merely define desires.

sexual urges can be controlled by people who are not criminals.

If what you are saying is that all pedophiles are criminals because of who they are, then I will say I am sorry you think that way, because there are a lot of people out there who are physically attracted to children who have not acted on those urges, know they are bad urges, and seek therapy.

If what you are saying is that all pedophiles are child rapists, then I must inform you that is not what the word "pedophile" means. It only means a person who is sexually attracted to children. Not all pedophiles are child abusers, and in fact, not all child abusers are necessarily pedophiles, either.

But I digress. This little thread is beyond the point of answering OP's question.

[–]FirstWaveMasculinist 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

When did I say all pedophiles. Pedophiles who can control their urges and seek help are not criminals, but consuming child porn and contributing to the demand in that industry is not controlling anything.

If you aren't trying to compare pedophilia to sexual orientations then don't mention them in your post. It can't be compared because they are extremely different things.

[–]Decline_of_reddit 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not having something under control is not the same as abdicating control or choosing to be out of control. Not everyone is born with will of steel, which is why we have interventions.

[–]YesNotReally 27ポイント28ポイント  (3子コメント)

He wouldn't do anything wrong to you because you're an adult. He also didn't feel like a monster or seek help while maintaining a library of cp, but rather after he got caught and his cover got blown.

[–]OldWolf2 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

How do you know he didn't feel like a monster already?

People with mental illness rarely seek help on their own ; usually support from family/friends is required.

People go full Salem whenever the word "pedophile" is mentioned so I don't blame him for being apprehensive about telling anyone.

[–]YesNotReally 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

If he had told her he wanted to seek help for his sexual attraction to children before she found his collection, I would be far more willing to believe that he felt bad about it. There are people who seek help before they download enough cp to have it be easily found on two separate devices.

He's already proven he's willing to act on his feelings. There's a reason that possession of cp is a serious crime--a crime which he's already committed many times over. You don't often see people in this sub saying that someone who is actively committing crimes probably feels bad about it and should be given a second chance.

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Original Post:

Found CP on bf's computer/Phone

Hello, I have been with my boyfriend for a year now. We recently got our own place in April. Well, this Thursday I went on his phone searching for a video of our cat when I came across numerous child pornography videos and also numerous pictures of underage children. I also found videos on his pc as well. I am completely devastated. I confronted him and he admitted he does have sexual thoughts towards children. He said he feels like a monster and wants therapy. I feel completely different about him now. I can't even look at him. Can I get in trouble for not reporting what I seen on his phone and computer? Are there actual therapist that can really help with pedophilia?