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PM: UK will take in 20,000 Syrian refugees over next five years (twitter.com)

twillettFilthy Liberal | Brexit / Electoral Reform が 投稿

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[–]StormyBA 47ポイント48ポイント  (45子コメント)

The UK right now has immigration fatigue (in much the same way as the public get war fatigue) and the appetite for more immigration is at an all time low. This IS due to the EU immigration policies of borderless states and free of movement. People are fed up of being ignored on the issue and it now means this will only annoy people further. The rate of increase is created divided communities and watering down the cultures of nation states.

The truth of the matter is this is the right thing to do and as far as I can see it is being done in the right way taking people direct from Syria rather then encouraging anybody to come like Germany have decided to do which will lead to more drownings.

If we did not have the yearly immigration figures we have had over the past 10 years, which is what is stoking up a lot of anger across the board, and instead we had a sensible immigration policy based on skill. A system in which our elected MP's debated sensible numbers and required skills each year in parliament there would not be such resistance in the public mood and the nation would be far more willing to help.

EU policy on both immigration and asylum has done nothing but caused needless deaths and division across member states wile the sheer scale of movement has stoked the fires of anger and distrust through the populations.

These unelected EU clowns are fucking idiots, everything they touch turns to dog shit and yet people are still happy to stuff their sandwiches with it and lap it up claiming its all great to live in a federal super state.

[–]DXBtoDOH 18ポイント19ポイント  (3子コメント)

I couldn't say it better.

Immigration fatigue is a brilliant phrase and perfectly summarises the ugly mood in the UK at the moment. If Britain votes BREXIT (which I think it will) it will largely be because of the perception of rampant, uncontrolled immigration.

[–]StormyBA 19ポイント20ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's a shame that immigration will be the focus rather then the many other important issues on democracy, law even trade + TTIP.

[–]dougie_g 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's because people don't particularly understand the issues. The EU is actually very boring and technical. TTIP is case in point - it is unlikely to contain anything particularly new or remarkable but people are screaming their heads off about it without even having seen the contents yet, complaining that the perfectly normal secrecy around international negotiations 'proves' that it must be awful. All the issues are just discussed hysterically in the press and it is really hard to actually gauge what the best thing to do is without some pretty significant education in the facts and how everything fits together. Even then, no one is really able to understand the full picture. An immigration expert won't fully understand EU law and politics, and a trade lawyer won't fully understand the economic implications of the eurozone.

[–]RigadonwildeMyOwnBulldog 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ugly mood? You do understand why when poeple are kidnapped each gov refuses to pay the ransome don't you? I am actually proud to be British today for the fact that we are not encouraging this madness and only taking people who have been processed and living in refugee camps.

[–]caradas 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly. One thing I have pointed out to bleeding hearts on this Asylum crisis: if you didn't insist on open borders up until now people would be more welcoming and generous

[–]_Born_To_Be_Mild_ 2ポイント3ポイント  (16子コメント)

You don't speak for everyone. I, for one, think immigration is a good thing for the UK.

[–]StormyBA 26ポイント27ポイント  (14子コメント)

Very few people are against immigration - You would have to be a total idiot to be against immigration.

What people want is sensible, controlled immigration that has long term sustainability.

The current system and rate of 350k a year is unsustainable and all out damaging to the quality of life for everyone in the country. Only a fool could not see how a population increasing by such a rating is damaging to literally everything... pollution, education, housing, health care....

[–]Baratheon_EconomistLiberal 5ポイント6ポイント  (12子コメント)

The current system and rate of 350k a year is unsustainable

Very few economists would agree with you; there's virtually no evidence to suggest such numbers are unsustainable besides infrastructural concerns, which have solutions other than limiting the number of immigrants to below ~350k/pa.

EDIT: No idea why I'm being downvoted for saying this; I haven't made a non-contributory comment. If you disagree with me, engage me in conversation, don't just downvote me because I don't immediately confirm your political priors. If you think I've said something out of line, similarly, tell me and I'll apologise and correct myself.

[–]RichieSMDon't blame me, I voted UKIP. 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

Very few economists would agree with you; there's virtually no evidence to suggest such numbers are unsustainable besides infrastructural concerns, which have solutions other than limiting the number of immigrants to below ~350k/pa.

What would you do about the school class sizes in London? This article says that it's unsustainable: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-34120488

The answer isn't "build more schools". We don't even build enough housing which is a lot more important.

[–]Baratheon_EconomistLiberal -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

What would you do about the school class sizes in London?

First and foremost I'd liberalise the planning laws that prevent the adequate construction of both schools and houses.

Although I wouldn't be opposed to requiring immigrants to use private services--be they educational, healthcare, whatever isn't classed as an emergency service--to make sure the strain isn't too heavy on our schools and hospitals, etc.

[–]northern_crusader 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

First and foremost I'd liberalise the planning laws that prevent the adequate construction of both schools and houses.

Very good. Now where is the land to build them in London?

[–]Baratheon_EconomistLiberal -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's quite literally surrounded by it.

Rolling back the green belt around London would provide space for both housing and infrastructure. Given that 90pc of the land in England and Wales is undeveloped, it seems rather ridiculous to have a green belt which encircles cities. So I'd rather have the green belt completely restructured over the long-run, although the political capital needed to do this would probably be immense.

[–]northern_crusader [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Ah yes, all that land which is providing food that people need to survive...

[–]Baratheon_EconomistLiberal [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Have I time travelled back to 1650 where the civil war is preventing both the domestic transportation of goods and international trade?

EDIT: On a more serious note, I remember reading an ASI paper which claimed just 0.5pc of the 90pc of undeveloped land would be enough to satisfy our housing needs for the next decade. But it was an ASI paper. . . So, pinch of salt and all that. Nevertheless, you wouldn't need to abolish the green belt about London, if you really are that concerned about farming in the area.

[–]thatdamnedsalarianLib Dem (2.38, -4.92) | Social Libertarianish 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

You'll have a bad time with pro-immigration comments on this sub.

[–]High_Tory_MasterraceSocially Liberal. Nationally Conservative. Enoch fanboy. 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's no one who is anti immigration on this sub. Some people just can't wrap their head around the idea that it isn't a binary thing of all or nothing.

[–]Baratheon_EconomistLiberal -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

People can disagree with me all they want, I'm not going to deny I'm happily pro-immigration. My issue is with being downvoted; it requires no effort, no thought and violates the spirit of the site. Of course, it will always happen, but I'd expect a sub devoted to explicitly political discussion would have a greater sense of self-awareness when it comes to using the downvote function.

[–]ex-turpi-causaRadical Centre; Liberal 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

My issue is with being downvoted; it requires no effort, no thought and violates the spirit of the site. Of course, it will always happen, but I'd expect a sub devoted to explicitly political discussion would have a greater sense of self-awareness when it comes to using the downvote function.

I agree with you but at the same time would add a pithy, "welcome to social media;" the land where fast-paced, kneejerk reactions are the key to political "engagement" and the first critical step in hashing out the issue in as nuanced, and level-headed a way as possible...

[–]Baratheon_EconomistLiberal -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

would add a very pithy

FTFY.

[–]SatiricalBrit 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Its not economic, its the cultural and societal issues mass immigration it brings.

[–]danimir -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's only damaging if our education and housing systems can't respond to the change in demand. And it depends on the extent to which that is the case. I'd like to see some statistics before making a judgement.

[–]RigadonwildeMyOwnBulldog -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is a debunked straw man that got booted out of normal argument in about 2007. The UK is the definition of a country that has been formed on the back of many mass migrations. God what a hollow thing to say-

[–]Dolphin_Titties 0ポイント1ポイント  (22子コメント)

Literally nobody I know has 'immigration fatigue'. I live in Manchester.

[–]dougie_g 8ポイント9ポイント  (7子コメント)

I know, right? I live in Tower Hamlets with a group of non-Brits, an area with some of the highest immigration around, and there doesn't really seem to be any major problems in day to day life (once Mr fuckface mayor got proven guilty of course).

[–]Careyhunt 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

you live with immigrants and they are cool with immigration?

shocker

[–]Dolphin_Titties 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

I live with natives and none of them have a problem with it.

[–]northern_crusader 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Plenty seem to. In a decade in London, a number of white people equivalent to the population of Glasgow have left London mostly from areas that became dominated with non-whites.

[–]Dolphin_Titties -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

So fucking what? What the absolute fuck has skin colour got to do with anything?

[–]northern_crusader [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

A large percentage of London are migrants.

[–]Dolphin_Titties [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

About 35%? Yep, it's our capital. What's your point?

[–]Careyhunt 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

might that be selection bias. perhaps those who have a problem with it don't live there.

the white flight from London is large

[–]Careyhunt -1ポイント0ポイント  (13子コメント)

you must be very insular since a majority of labour, Conservative, green and lib dem. voters want less. immigration

[–]Dolphin_Titties 0ポイント1ポイント  (12子コメント)

Nobody I know mate.

[–]High_Tory_MasterraceSocially Liberal. Nationally Conservative. Enoch fanboy. 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

70% of the population want immigration reduced.

[–]Dolphin_Titties -3ポイント-2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yes the general public tend to be fairly selfish and bigoted, is that news to anyone?

[–]High_Tory_MasterraceSocially Liberal. Nationally Conservative. Enoch fanboy. 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

What a stupid thing to say. Wanting immigration reduced does not make one selfish or a bigot.

[–]Dolphin_Titties -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

What I said still stands though.

[–]High_Tory_MasterraceSocially Liberal. Nationally Conservative. Enoch fanboy. 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not really. We're one of the least racist countries in the world. It seems less than 5% of Brits want immigration reduced because 'they're dirty foreigners'.

[–]Dolphin_Titties -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can't really take you seriously with that username. And yes I'm aware of mine

[–]Careyhunt -4ポイント-3ポイント  (5子コメント)

what do you hope. to achieve by lying?

[–]Dolphin_Titties -3ポイント-2ポイント  (4子コメント)

What do you hope to achieve by hating?

[–]Careyhunt 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don't think you understand what fatigue means.

[–]Dolphin_Titties -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't think you have basic human emotions

[–]Careyhunt -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

do you need to dehumanise your enemies first?

[–]Dolphin_Titties 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Perhaps you should ask yourself that question