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Possible Plagiarism in The Wise Man's Fear UK Edition Cover Art [X-post /r/KingKillerChronicle] (self.Fantasy)

LotoSage が 投稿

It occurred to me that the cover art for the UK edition of The Wise Man's Fear seemed a bit too familiar. After a little digging, I found this figurine of Darth Maul from the Star Wars series. Wow. Not even subtle. Here's a side-by-side comparison. Here are both images overlayed on one another, fashioned by /u/BlueLarks over at /r/KingKillerChronicle As you can see, it's nearly 1:1, almost identical. Does anybody know who's responsible for this cover art? Do you think they have licensing from Disney to use the image? It's pretty clear they just haphazardly slapped in a sword and a redhead, and called it Kvothe. Has anyone else noticed this? What do y'all think?

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[–]FrostyRecollection 23ポイント24ポイント  (3子コメント)

Nah the artist is just a sympathist. Though the link must not have been very strong due to the apparent drop in quality.

[–]OortClouds 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

He's suffering from slippage

[–]Arashmickey 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

He only used a hair for the bond. Darth Maul doesn't have any hair.

[–]Sylph_14 18ポイント19ポイント  (38子コメント)

Wow, that's some hilariously awful Photoshopping. Half of the hand that's coming towards the viewer is missing, with only a couple awkward highlights to suggest there was ever a thumb.
Also the shadows; his shadow is placed like the light is coming from behind (complete with awkwardly too-large shadow on one foot), the figure looks like he's lit from the left, while that katana sheath looks to be lit from the bottom?
Not only should the 'artist' of this work hang their head in shame, whoever from marketing that approved this abomination needs a stern finger wagging (at least).

[–]GetMeOffReddit 3ポイント4ポイント  (37子コメント)

I believe that book covers are important. This would convince me not to pick up the story in the first place.

Edit: Oh look, a downvote brigade. Who would have guessed that would happen in this subreddit of all places?/s

[–]mmSNAKE 11ポイント12ポイント  (14子コメント)

Authors have very little to no say in what covers they get. Why would you make a judgment on a story, on the author on something they hardly have a hand in?

Isn't that completely irrational?

[–]clayton_japes 4ポイント5ポイント  (20子コメント)

And you'd be all the poorer for caring about something dumb?

[–]Ankari -1ポイント0ポイント  (19子コメント)

Covers are not dumb. A significant segment of readers make their purchasing decision on cover art. I do three things: cover, blurb, first 10 pages. In that order. The exception, of course, is recommendations.

Self published authors invest into cover art. Read Michael J. Sullivan's blog on his self published stories. He seeks artists that will deliver his vision of the cover art.

[–]mmSNAKE 4ポイント5ポイント  (9子コメント)

Just because a lot of people do something. It does not make it intelligent, rational or moral/right/good thing to do.

A lot of people smoke, for example. A lot of people are religious/political zealots. Just because it is widespread does not make it smart, or that it should be taken as intended.

Self publishing is different in a way that authors get to pick their cover. Still though, finding a proper artist, that does it well enough, that will appeal to large number of people is not easy. It isn't easy if you don't have means to poll to see what people think on it. And then there is artist and whatnot.

Covers are just what they are. They shouldn't be taken seriously, or factor into decisions what to read. They can be neat, or atrocious, but they don't correlate to what is inside.

[–]Ankari 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

First, I'd like to make the point that I upvoted you. I don't think sharing an opinion deserves negative feedback.

Second, we make choices by visual confirmation regularly. A car's body, if unappealing, will prevent most people from buying a car regardless of the quality of the interior and drivetrain.

The cover differs in that it makes a declaration of what's inside the book with one scene. It promises the reader what they should expect.

Self publishing has allowed authors to choose their covers to best represent their written work. They know the content of the book and can give precise feedback on the cover. Publishing houses lagged behind their product quality by marginalizing significant portions of their packaging.

I think self publishing is good in that it offers competition to the traditional publishing houses. It breaks the monopoly and forces the traditional publishing houses to rethink their generations old thinking.

I may have meandered a bit. My point is covers are integral to the purchasing process. That previous covers were horrible and the stories were great highlights how inefficient traditional publishers are. How many more copies of those great novels would have sold if they had better covers? To a larger point, how many more people would accepted the fantasy genre, or accepted it sooner?

[–]mmSNAKE 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I may have meandered a bit. My point is covers are integral to the purchasing process. That previous covers were horrible and the stories were great highlights how inefficient traditional publishers are. How many more copies of those great novels would have sold if they had better covers? To a larger point, how many more people would accepted the fantasy genre, or accepted it sooner?

I agree, at the same time it saddens me that people decide to make decisions on irrational responses. People like patterns, people like to categorize, and that extends to generalizations and stereotypes. I would rather have people start thinking more on their decisions than cater to their irrationality. I don't care if a norm is irrational. If it doesn't compute, if it is irrational, unfair, generalizing, stereotypical, I don't care that it's the norm. I will voice out against it, regardless of the pushing tide.

[–]EctMills 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

Just because a lot of people do something. It does not make it intelligent, rational or moral/right/good thing to do.

You not approving of how people make decisions doesn't change the way the market works either. So long as a significant portion of the your readership does make decisions based on covers then it's in an authors/publishers best interests to make sure their product at minimum meets the expectations that their customers are using. Doing anything less is risking sales.

[–]mmSNAKE 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

I didn't argue how system works. I argued that majority of people make irrational decisions, and market caters to that to produce profit.

What am I supposed to do? Just accept it? Not argue why it is unfair, irrational, generalizing and stereotypical to make decisions like that? And just say, that is how it is done and leave it be? No.

I won't cave to the pressure of popular belief, irrationality or any sort of norm that we can say "yeah it's irrational and 'wrong' but it just is". I will voice out why such behavior is detrimental.

My statement won't change the system. But it may get some people to think a little bit more. That sort of thing makes a difference, big small, regardless it is something, better than just shutting up and accepting the status quo.

[–]EctMills 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

You're welcome to make your decisions however you see fit. However since publishers are as you said, interested in the majority of readers instead of individuals they will always do what will appeal to the majority. And if they aren't putting in the effort for a decent cover then it's reasonable to assume they are not confident in the book's ability to sell and wonder what other corners were cut. It's not irrational or unintelligent to be aware of how the industry works.

[–]mmSNAKE 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I wasn't arguing how industry does things. Just how people judge, or assume to judge content based on something unrelated. New authors when picked up won't get benefit of the doubt most of the time for the publisher to invest money in. Authors have no say so in how the cover reflects their work. A lot of times the people making the cover did not read the book. So you get stuff like Harry Dresden wearing a hat on the cover. Or you get a gruesome violent and philosophical book have a cover that are similar to romance novels.

Putting 'effort' into cover isn't as simple as it sounds. There are some incredible pieces of fiction that were published at the wrong time, or they are niche, or people just generalize and don't give it a try. Fact is, book's content is not reflected by covers. There is no direct correlation or relationship.

People also don't understand sometimes that the amount of effort a publisher will put in something like ASOIAF won't be the same with work that is less known, but perhaps better suiting the taste of the person buying. Publishers will invest in what they know will pay out. Popularity does not mean quality when we are judging individually.

I just argue that people shouldn't judge based on covers because it is irrational, it generalizes, it is stereotypical. We argue plenty about those sort of behavior patterns when it applies to bigotry, race, gender etc. Yet when I point out that it is equally irrational to do it in this case I'm 'being difficult' to some people.

I won't tell people what to do, or how to make their choices. It is on them, hence it is a choice. I will ask questions to see how those choices came about, and if they can be improved to make them more understanding, and fair.

[–]EctMills 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I haven't called you anything let alone difficult so if you're looking to debate the relationship between book choices and bigotry I can't help you.

New authors when picked up won't get benefit of the doubt most of the time for the publisher to invest money in.

They don't always get the same treatment and yes sometimes they are mishandled. I'm not pretending that publishers are infallible by any means. However even with a new unproven author there is still a baseline of quality that a publisher will stick to and it is a reasonable warning sign when it is ignored, especially since it does not happen very often. And to be clear, since we seem to be using different metrics, when I'm talking about sub par covers I don't mean Harry Dresden with a hat or accidental genre switching. I'm talking about basic graphic design principles being ignored and terrible quality artwork, like in the cover on the original post. It's not the worst example since the graphic design is decent and the foreground masks the issues with the figure but everything altered from the Darth Maul figure is awkward and poorly executed. Last I heard one of Kvothe's abilities was not an optional neck.

[–]GetMeOffReddit -2ポイント-1ポイント  (8子コメント)

Fully agree. It's like Sanderson says, would you be upset at someone for listening to the first twenty seconds of a song and deciding to change the channel? No. Because you know that people can tell what is and is not going to be to their tastes quickly on. Readers should expect the exact same treatment.

The cover is hugely important, as is the beginning of the story. If either is lagging behind then the author and publisher should have done more to make it better.

The people getting pissed at this being pointed out are silly. And the downvote brigade is just telling of the state of this subreddit.

[–]yourfaceisannoying 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

As I pointed out above, you are likely attracting down votes because you're being bolshy and aggressive. It's quite a fair criticism to say that not even considering trying a book based solely on the cover is a bit silly ( it's a proverb for a reason), yet you're acting like you're being personally attacked and have resorted to slagging off your conversation partners' taste in book and even the people in the sub, all because they disagree with you and think you're being a bit irrational (can't imagine why).

[–]Shastars 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I fully agree with you. The cover art is the first thing you see about a book, and fully colours every single experience you have with the book once you pick it up.

If there's a character on the front that looks like he's been drawn by a 4 year old, I won't pick it up, because for the rest of the book my mind's eye will just put the deformed face on the cover front and centre.

Obviously there's many books that are so engrossing and well written it wouldn't matter what the front look like, but those really are a minority.

[–]GetMeOffReddit -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

but those really are a minority.

Exactly so. And for those minority we have eReaders. I have a kindle or computer and can read that book at my leisure without exposing myself to the toxic mistake that is the awful cover.

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]GetMeOffReddit -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You're spamming the same comment over and over again and I'm supposed to care what you have to say? Uh, no. Thanks.

    [–]yourfaceisannoying 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I will freely admit that book covers can influence my decision on whether to buy a book, but never in a vacuum - the author's reputation, word of mouth or other recommendations will complement and frequently override that aspect 9/10. I've regretted buying many books, and the cover was never the deciding factor. On the other hand, I have come late to a beloved book or series that I had previously avoided due, in part, to its presentation.

    [–]genida 34ポイント35ポイント  (6子コメント)

    If anything it makes me notice how poorly Kvothe is holding the sword. Which is also a katana, the most tropey sword sword of all swords.

    Nevermind the plagiarism, it's just bad.

    [–]LotoSage[S] 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

    It's literally upside down...

    [–]xaaar 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

    He's holding it backwards.

    [–]Lugonn 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    In Ademre sword orientation is more of a second year subject.

    [–]gyroda 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    It's so they can get the curve in the right way, so you can see the katana at its intended angle. /s

    [–]consuela_concarne 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Nah, he's holding it backwards because he's about to mess shit up battousai style.

    [–]sherlockhobbes 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    And it is angled the wrong way. The hand is angled in such a way that the sword should be going "into the page" a bit, but the guard on the sword is drawn as if it is angling slightly "out of the the page". Which just adds to the questionable nature of the whole thing.

    [–]HalakuWorldbuilders 24ポイント25ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think that Mr. Rothfuss should be having a strong talk with his agent and publisher.

    [–]GloriousYardstick 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Somehow adding a sword and scabbard completely fucks with the stance. On the figurine it makes sense, but on the painting its just wrong.

    [–]gyroda 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The sword is even the wrong way around, just so you can get the nice katana profile in there to show off its curve.

    I literally just moved my wrist to check this. When his wrist isn't bent the sharp side of the blade will be pointed back towards his arm and the blunt side towards whatever he's trying to hit.

    [–]BlueLarks 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    See my post in the other thread with one image overlayed over the other:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/KingkillerChronicle/comments/3jv9uu/plagiarism_in_wise_mans_fear_uk_edition_cover_art/cuspska

    It's an obvious copy.

    [–]nothing_in_my_mind 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'm an ok artist, I've been drawing for about 8 years. It's obvious that the artist traced that same photo of the Darth Maul figurine. Which means he opened the photo in Photoshop and drawn over the lines in the photo.

    I don't think it's plagiarism in the legal sense. Disney can't really copyright the pose. It would be plagiarism if they used the photo itself on the cover but they did not. It could be plagiarism if the artwork looked like Darth Maul (with horns and red/black face paint) but it is not.

    The artist was probably strung up on time and wasn't paid enough to create an original artwork. If he was not, then he's just a shitty artist.

    [–]noahbradley/r/Fantasy Best of 2012 Winner AMA Artist Noah Bradley 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

    99% odds the cover artist used that figurine as reference when they painted. Whether it's plagiarism outright is a bit borderline, but it's definitely not a good practice to get into regardless. We all use reference for our work, and there's nothing wrong with that. But learning to modify things and cover our tracks is essential.

    [–]gate233 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Looking at the side by side image you can see all the ripples in the clothing is identical.

    [–]lurkmode_offWorldbuilders 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

    It's possible that both artists used the same photo of a model in that pose.

    Model A is photographed in a kick ass pose, artists B and C both pay model A for rights to use the photo as reference.

    [–]Sylph_14 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Except that the Maul picture in question is a photograph of a physical figurine.

    [–]lurkmode_offWorldbuilders 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

    A figurine that an artist made. (Well, made the original.) An artist who would have used a live model, a dummy, or, more likely, a photo as reference.

    [–]Sylph_14 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

    True, but what you're suggesting would require a sculptor to work from a publicly available reference photo (not something that happens with officially licensed figures, unless its based off a painting) with the model dressed, have that sculpture somehow match the photo at the taken angle exactly, and then have the finished figurine also photographed at the exact angle that matched the original photo perfectly, so that any other artwork that traced the original photo would line up as if traced to the photo of the figurine. That's a pretty far-fetched sequence of events.

    [–]Shastars 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Also, there's 12 years between the release dates of the Phantom Menace and the book. The chances of that exact same photo being used seems even more slimmer.

    [–]benscott81 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Except even the folds of the costume are the same. It's pretty obvious, especially when you can tell the artist is not very experienced. I'm blown away that a cover this terrible was used by a real publisher.

    [–]clayton_japes 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    And yet it's still so much better than the US editions. Doesn't take much.

    [–]yourfaceisannoying 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That's pretty shameful, but not entirely uncommon. I remember back in my Warhammer days, there were several famous pieces of art that, er, borrowed quite heavily from other sources. The 'Scarface' space marine springs immediately to mind.

    [–]Malley87 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Haha well spotted. It has clearly been copied from Darth Maul

    [–]simbyotic 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It's not plagiarism, he probably used the figurine as reference to draw that pose. Besides, plagiarism would have been using the figurine itself, not the pose, so enough with the moralizing and saying Rothfuss should be having a call with his publishers.

    [–]Dendarri 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Well, damn. I guess if you pay for cheap cover art that is what you get.