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[–]Nobody enjoys playing against potmsomethingToDoWithMe 435ポイント436ポイント  (138子コメント)

Hey, look! NoobfromUA is taking content from someone else again! I wonder whose side Reddit will take this time!

[–]notamccallister 493ポイント494ポイント  (109子コメント)

NUA is a primary example of why YouTube copyright detection works on an automated system.

https://twitter.com/zai_2002/status/640635278403764225

He's not sorry that he did it, he's sorry that he got caught. He knows he could very easily ask for permission, but that would:

  1. Make the content creator aware to possibly deny the request.

  2. Make the content creator ask for a share of the monetary gains.

Seeing as how this is NUA's full time job, I'm surprised he's so cavalier about walking the line. A few strikes and he basically loses his job. But people are so thirsty for highlights, even though it affects the people who they're actually trying to watch, so they'll side with NUA.

Edit: Oh, look, Zai's totally the bad guy now.

https://twitter.com/NoobFromUA/status/640640427562024960

All zai videos are deleted now. There is no zai content videos in my channel and will never be again.

GOSH ZAI I'M JUST TRYING TO BE A COOL DUDE UPLOADING UR STUFF AND WHY YOU GOTTA BE SO MEAN I'M SORRY I'LL NEVER DO IT AGAIN OH GOD PLEASE STOP HITTING ME. If he really cared he would keep it monetized and give Zai a share. Everybody wins. NUA gets easy money, Zai gets someone to cut his highlights with his permission, and viewers actually get to easily see the highlights.

This is exactly why people are reluctant to call him out. All of a sudden you're a huge douche for wanting to protect your content.

Oh and if this conversation seems familiar to you, it's because this exact issue was brought up one month ago by /u/blitzDOTA

Edit 2: HAHAHHA, HOLY SHIT IS THIS FOR REAL?

This is surreal. If ESEX made a parody of South Park's BP "We're Sorry" montage, this is pretty much exactly what it would be.

[–]TweetsInCommentsBot 61ポイント62ポイント  (1子コメント)

@zai_2002

2015-09-06 21:18 UTC

@NoobFromUA ya i dont care if ur sorry youve been called out before, plz stop using other peoples content for your own monetary gain


This message was created by a bot

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[–]hey ppd teach me how to play rikinotaredditperson 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good bot.

*pets the bot*

[–]Whywouldyou_ 211ポイント212ポイント  (12子コメント)

NUA always plays the victim too, this time saying his english is bad.

[–]KappucinoFrappucino 56ポイント57ポイント  (7子コメント)

Holy fuck,that's manipulative..

[–]Newguyfuck 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

Almost sounds like zai's former teammate support player...

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]Newguyfuck 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    well I was talking about kuroky but whatever

    [–]Diavolo222 -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I highly doubt he's being manipulative. He's just making light of the situation. He's not actually trying to gather sympathy.

    [–]Usually_that_guy 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Whether or not he's being manipulated, he is trying to gather sympathy and attention.

    [–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]MissionaryImpossible 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Except it is. There's no reason he couldn't at least attempt to communicate with whoever he's taking from.

      [–]Whywouldyou_ 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Doesn't hide the fact that there is and always has been a lack of communication between NUA and the pros that he steals from. Even in broken English, you can convey the message "I want to use your clips from your stream please"

      [–]Nice shot, don't you think?Revoran -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

      He no speaky the engrish.

      [–]SHHH.. only tears now...userwill95 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Well this just happened.

      Edit: He deleted the permission asking tweets

      [–]Nobody enjoys playing against potmsomethingToDoWithMe 86ポイント87ポイント  (6子コメント)

      It's really annoying simply from how straight forward the drama is every time but people keep going on about he is such a great guy and look at how nice he is he said he was sorry.

      Not to mention the amount of people who simply side with him because he uploads everything so quickly ala the Ti clips he uploaded.

      [–]envyWeWonsoSiiCK 74ポイント75ポイント  (3子コメント)

      His playing victim game is on point.

      [–]aratboygenius -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

      if he is it might not even be intentional

      he's probably a huge fan of these people and legitimately doesn't want to be the bad guy to them, so he responds like this

      [–]skyke00 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      If it's only once or twice it's okay, but he did it quite a lot, so it gets suspicious.

      [–]I am a beacon of knowledge blazing out across a black sea of ignCataplexic 28ポイント29ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Not to mention the amount of people who simply side with him because he uploads everything so quickly ala the Ti clips he uploaded.

      Yea, no one doubts that the videos he puts up are entertaining and up-to-date, and watching his channel is the best way to get caught up on pro plays.

      However, it in no way excuses the fact that he alone reaps the financial benefits of his channel, when he aggregates content directly from streams and tournaments. He also clearly stepped over the line with the player profile videos.

      He has great potential to run a service for these pro players or tournament organisers, but the way he's operating now will only continue to draw criticism. I want him to change the way he does business, because I love watching his channel.

      [–]Reggiardito 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Last time it happened with BTS and everyone kept defending him at first, until everyone realized, what the fuck

      [–]rivatia 25ポイント26ポイント  (27子コメント)

      I am also wondering, how long his channel will stay online if people just start to file claims against him. Calling him out on social media dosnt seem to change anything.

      [–]notamccallister 29ポイント30ポイント  (21子コメント)

      I think that's because for the most part people enjoy his service and don't want to shut him down, they just don't appreciate the way he goes about doing his business. I am like 99% sure that if NUA sent a message to Zai being like:

      "Hey, a lot of times I do highlight reels of popular players' streams and publish them on my YouTube page. Would you mind if I did this for your stream?"

      Zai would say yes, sure, I don't want to go through the trouble of doing it myself, so go for it.

      Eventually he's going to step on some big organizations toes for a tournament highlight reel though, if he hasn't already.

      [–]Reggiardito 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

      He kinda did, he had a similar problem with BTS.

      [–]Jules GMakeItCherished 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I'm pretty sure if his channel got taken down someone else doing the same thing would take over. Someone possibly even more dedicated to Dota 2.

      [–][削除されました]  (6子コメント)

      [deleted]

        [–]LtLabcoat 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

        For the viewers, there is no reason to like Zai's standpoint, because it only gives them a disadvantage.

        In theory yes, in practice no. People don't like the feeling of "selling out" - if they feel that the video producer (NUA, in this case) is being unfair and stealing content for monetary gain, they do stop watching his videos. Even if there's no good equivalent.

        [–][削除されました]  (4子コメント)

        [deleted]

          [–]LtLabcoat 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

          Is this one of those "He has music playing in the background therefore he is l33t thief Xtraordinaire" things?

          [–]RAWR!!SmaugTheGreat 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

          What happened to your arguments?

          He is a thief complaining about thieves. It's like The Pirate Bay complaining about their logo being stolen.

          [–]LtLabcoat 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Because next to noone cares about music being used as background music on an everyday gaming stream. Even the musicians themselves are nearly always okay with it, because they don't lose out when people hear it on a stream. Nobody goes "Oh, now that I've heard that cool song once more with someone constantly talking over it, I don't see a reason to listen to it again on Spotify". That's not how it works with music, but it IS how it works with gameplay clips.

          [–]Gammaran -5ポイント-4ポイント  (11子コメント)

          No, the full point of his tweet is to get him to ask so he can say no. As he said, Zai wants him to stop posting other people content for his personal monetary gain.

          [–]notamccallister 6ポイント7ポイント  (10子コメント)

          Zai doesn't need to ask, it's his content. Zai has all the grounds necessary to place a strike on his channel. If he really had an issue with NUA, he would just tell other pro players to strike all of their videos on his channel as well.

          Zai and all the other pro players just care that if you're going to go through the trouble of cutting a reel from their footage, then they deserve to get a share of the gains.

          [–]miles_142 -5ポイント-4ポイント  (6子コメント)

          rofl it's his content? what about all of the music that he plays on his stream? I'm sure that because he's such a saint that he's gone out and asked each recording company whether or not he has permission to play their music on his dota 2 stream that DEFINITELY is monetized.

          [–]dadPuckViscereality 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

          You would have a point if it was Zai's music that brought people to his stream. But it isnt, its his Dota 2 plays.

          [–]Gammaran -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I never said Zai needed to ask, i said Zai wants NUA to ask so he can always say no.

          Other Twitch streamers have contracts with video editors and just let the video editor get the money from Youtube in exchange for other periodical services like video montages and promotion videos.

          I cant side with Pro players until they actually start uploading quality highlights of their streams on their channels. A lot of people cant catch the stream live and like to just see a short montage of the stream.

          [–]Powder's Drymaccabeus -5ポイント-4ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Zai and all the other pro players just care that if you're going to go through the trouble of cutting a reel from their footage, then they deserve to get a share of the gains.

          why? Zai played the game and got his twitch money. Why should he get anything when NUA does all the actual work?

          If zai wanted that money, he could upload his own highlights instead of letting his muted vods rot in the twitch servers. He wants the money, but he doesn't want to earn it.

          [–]notamccallister 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

          That's like saying, "Oh well I used my camcorder to film Guardians of the Galaxy in a theater and uploaded it YouTube all by myself. Why is Marvel giving me shit for monetizing this? I did all the work recording this! They got my money paying for a ticket at the theater. If they didn't want this to happen, they should have uploaded it on the internet themselves first."

          It doesn't matter what the circumstances are, you can't steal peoples' footage. If Zai lets his VoDs rot, so be it, that's his decision. If he sees a big market in making money off highlights, then he can choose to pursue it. But NUA isn't allowed to make that decision for him, without him.

          [–]Fen_ 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

          It would've been gone years ago.

          [–]gg-shostakovich -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

          His channel will stay online as far as he continues to offer the kind of content that people consume. It will go offline when people get their shit together and do stuff better than him.

          [–]ThePancakerizer 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I think he means copyright-struck-off-of-youtube offline and not losing-popularity offline.

          [–]IS ONLE GAEM. Y U HEFF 2 B MEHD.Leodrade 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I think you got his comment wrong. On Youtube after a certain amount of copyright strikes a channel can't have its videos monetized anymore, also a lot of these multi-channel networks don't offer contracts to channels that have copyright strikes on their record.

          [–]Learn2Buy -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Calling him out on social media dosnt seem to change anything.

          Pitchforking NUA's channel and getting rid of it wouldn't change anything either. Another random russian organization would just take his place, and they'd probably be even scummier. Right now NUA is the lesser of all evils. All reddit is going to accomplish is make the overall situation shittier and pitchforking a hardworking individual out of the scene.

          [–]USA USA USAStomo 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Never did zai once say for anything to be removed, just to be let people be aware, then nua has the audacity to act like zai was actually mad at him so people to pity him as the one being attacked, jesus christ what scum

          [–]armin199 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Do you know anything about the legality of his actions? I know there are literary hundreds of channels doing the same thing, and if this is illegal then there's gotta be a serious talk about this issue...

          [–]Yuhnstar 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Freebooting is internetwide and happens pretty much anywhere on the web. Yes, there already are serious talks about it constantly. The bigger freebooters get more attention obviously....

          [–]dbric 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          The content owner just files a DMCA notice with the host of the content and they have to take it down immediately or be held responsible if the issue is taken to court. The person who the notice is filed against can dispute the claim. The content owner could then possibly pursue legal action, but unless they could make a large return on it, it probably isn't worth court costs.

          As for whether youtube closes the channel or not, I don't know. I'm sure there's something in their ToS.

          [–]TDA101 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

          It almost seems similar too the way the hearthstone videos are created by Trollden. I really can't tell the difference.

          It's really just taking clips as fast as possible, editing it with the bare minimum effort for people to consume it and enjoy itand pretending to rehash it as your own.

          [–]RAWR!!SmaugTheGreat 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Could also compare it with Reddit. Reddit is a lot quicker than for example JoinDota or other dota-news websites with news, but they are a lot lower in quality than those (usually just small text posts or headlines as opposed to researched articles).

          [–]Nuke fanHHhunter [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          why research it yourself when you can find it out in the comment sections Kappa

          [–]MarikBentusi 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Well, content aggregation's kind of a service with a lot of demand (as is evident by looking at this very site), so specialized versions of it are almost bound to pop up around communities/hobbies that grow so large there's no way you're gonna be able to watch all the highlights yourself in a reasonable amount of time - thus, highlight reels and content aggregation.

          Not that this doesn't make the situation less of a copyright mess, but I think the general phenomenon is so big and consistent that someone's just gonna follow NoobFromUA's footsteps even if he goes down. It probably wouldn't even end if the laws were tightened up, simply because of how much demand for that type of service is out there. Probably only gonna end if someone - somehow - comes up with a smart and convenient way of correctly attributing and sourcing content across the web, but I wouldn't even know where to begin with such an endeavor.

          [–]lost hope boysCOMMUNISM_IS_COOL 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          And he just changed his profile picture again. Daym.

          [–]Pucker them cheeks I'm going in dry.TheCancerousDrake 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Im not an expert people but I can say IMHO that this post is the definition of getting fucking destroyed.

          [–]HEY RTZ, I’M TRYING TO PLAY RIKI.The_Oatmeal 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          His English is perfectly fine if you have seen him talking on Reddit channel in game. It's obvious he is faking his broken English. What a piece of shit.

          [–]Knargs 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Just because this is coming up a second time. For some time now, there was no word describing this way of "stealing" online content, but there is now.

          Freebooting, its coined by u/JeffDujon and describes the act of monetizing media content that is already owned and/or uploaded by another person.

          I better shut up, because this explains it way better: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2015/07/freebooting_stolen_youtube_videos_going_viral_on_facebook.html

          [–]u83rmensch 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          easier to ask for forgiveness than for permissions.

          [–]CallMeDraken [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          "Sorry guys, I'm too popular nowadays."

          LMAO NUA

          [–]Gammaran -5ポイント-4ポイント  (4子コメント)

          i think the streamers should just hire him to do it and pay a share of the gains to him. Right now there is a need for quick highlights, streamers do a piss poor job at it, NUA does it great and streamers complain.

          If streamers had their own highlights then no one would need to go to NUA for them in the first place.

          Streamers want to deny highlights, while not doing anything or doing very little to provide that version of content themselves

          [–]ceildric 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

          People aren't entitled to videos, nor is NoobfromUA entitled to use them just because the streamers have not done so (or do so with low quality, or do so too slowly, lots of different excuses people make).

          None of that disputes the point that the content is Zai's (or Valve's (TI clips), or BTS's (All-star match), etc etc) to use and market as HE chooses, not you and not NoobfromUA.

          [–]pls buffCrackers1097 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Welp, time to unsubscribe

          [–]DOTKA PLEZDota7777 -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Why have you only just formulated this such strong opinion in light of recent events?

          People are so quick to show face and form a negative opinion when such situations arise, it's as if they get pleasure from their own confounded opinion being valided by others.

          [–]notamccallister 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

          This isn't recent events. I was a big fan of NUA, but he keeps acting intentionally dumb. He stole the all-star game from BTS, he ripped Valve's interviews from TI5, he's had issues with stealing stuff from streamers in the past, and now he's doing it again with Zai.

          I enjoy his services, but I want him to pull his shit together and just ask for permission rather than acting like a scrooge for all the monetization of content that isn't entirely his.

          [–]KingOwl -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

          It's not nearly that simple. Is NUA not a content creator by compiling and editing clips together into a video?

          You're insinuating a lot from the Twitter posts of a non-native English speaker, not exactly a fair approach. If you think NUA is being ridiculous with his response on Twitter at least consider that it's pretty ridiculous to call someone out like Zai did on a public forum.

          [–]notamccallister 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Were this his first offense, I would agree. But it isn't. This is like the fifth time that he's gotten called out for not asking for permission to upload something. This has nothing to do with speaking English. His livelihood depends on his understanding of copyright law, which he has repeatedly ignored.

          If I extracted all the fight scenes from a Hollywood movie and uploaded it to YouTube, does that make me a content creator? Do I own the footage and get to make money off of it just because I mixed and matched some bits?

          [–]KingOwl 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Movies, video games, and streams surely fall under different copyright laws. I haven't seen any evidence that you're versed in any of those and since I'm not I think it's best that we leave accusations to people that are. It's hilarious that being "called out" is an offense when we don't even know the laws.

          [–]Got milk?TofuTown -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

          If he really cared he would keep it monetized and give Zai a share. Everybody wins. NUA gets easy money, Zai gets someone to cut his highlights with his permission, and viewers actually get to easily see the highlights.

          This is probably the best solution.

          [–]MadafakkaJones -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

          I've not really sure what has happend in the past, but I do not see the big reaction on what NUA did in this situation. He gets called out from zai which content he has used without asking. It is apparent that Zai is not out for an apology, but something more (which he is entitled to imo). So he removes Zai's videos from his channel and states he will not continue putting up new ones. There is a big fuzz about this so he completely lays down flat and apologizes.

          I do not know the legal aspects of this, nor do I have big ethics views on it. So on how much in the wrong he was to start with I have little opinion on, but I think how he reacted to this call out was perfectly fine. It was apparent Zai was not happy out NUA taking his content without asking, so he lays down flat, apologizes and removed the content.

          [–]Barozine 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

          If this was the first time this happened with NUA, then it wouldn't be a big deal. However, this is a constant theme from him. He steals content, monetizes it, gets called out by the actual content creator, and then plays victim. He should have learned the first time if he was genuine.

          You can only cry wolf for so long.

          [–]MadafakkaJones -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Ok, I see some point to this if this is the case.

          I do, however, fail to see how he "plays the victim" by deleting the appointed videos and apologizing. Even if it is an 'empty' apology, he does still state that he is at fault?

          [–]THE SULTAN OF PUSHNoodleNonger -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

          This is exactly why people are reluctant to call him out. All of a sudden you're a huge douche for wanting to protect your content.

          This is true but perhaps it's why these content creators need to consider being professional about calling him out. Both Zai and SUNSfan did the most immature thing they could think of - a public call out which they intentionally let everyone view on twitter. What really should have happened was that the content creators should have attempted to sort it out privately at which point the worst NoobfromUA can do is attempt to exaggerate things and make it seem like a personal attack, for example, if Zai had done this privately the best NoobfromUA could really do is reject the offer and then make a public announcement like "I will no longer be posting any of Zai's content on my channel." which implies Zai might have done something douchey but at that point it's too easy for Zai to go public and say "This is stupid. I approached him about coming to a deal and he rejected and then goes around saying stupid shit".

          I'm not saying NoobfromUA is in the right so much as he's popular enough that the content creators need to think properly about how to approach this problem of theirs. It's been shown twice already that calling him out publically simply does not work and is not the way to go.

          EDIT: Of course - get downvoted for not even supporting NoobfromUA but suggesting maybe content creators should approach the problem differently instead of trying to public call out strat which has failed not once, not twice but a grand three times now.

          [–]Actinism 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

          It clearly has worked. If it's out in the open, nobody can witchhunt the players, compared to in private where drama spreads like wildfire.

          [–]THE SULTAN OF PUSHNoodleNonger 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Right, except this has been brought up previously twice before and just simmered back down within 24 hours. At best this will probably last 48 hours and then it'll go back to being the standard for NoobfromUA again. Like, even if Zai is considered the good guy here we can all see that all that is going to change is NoobfromUA will stop posting Zai's videos. If this kicks off and continues going for the next week or so and we see some legitimately significant change then that's great but unless that happens, this hasn't worked at all.

          [–]Actinism 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Zai's videos being removed means it's worked.

          [–]lexxeflex -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

          How is he to contact zai though?

          I doubt they have each other on skype or steam.

          He could tweet but when ppl have over 10k followers the chances of your tweets getting read are pretty slim.

          [–]notamccallister 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Believe me, that's not what's stopping him from asking. NUA himself has nearly 15k twitter followers, I'm sure he could just publicly tweet any pro player to start a conversation with all the RTs that it would get.

          At the very minimum he could end a highlight reel with some sort of placard saying, "Hey, are you the pro player behind these plays? Please contact me so I can compensate you!"

          [–]youhaveavagina 11ポイント12ポイント  (5子コメント)

          Who won?!

          [–]danskiiiii 16ポイント17ポイント  (4子コメント)

          WHOS NEXT?

          [–]CantStopClapping 15ポイント16ポイント  (3子コメント)

          YOU DECIDE !

          [–]rrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRsergeantsnorlax 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

          eeeEEEEEEPIC RAP BABLOBAHISTRAOZI !!

          [–]DLTyrus 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Every spelling of this I see sounds correct in my head

          [–]Lina Del ReyNightmare13xo 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          AND THE WINNER IS.............

          JOHN CNEAAAA

          [–]mAReDux 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Reddit took Zai's side. Time to delete post.

          [–]Nobody enjoys playing against potmsomethingToDoWithMe 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Did they? I'm starting to see a lot of people counter-jerking now.

          [–]Tzeth 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Zai owns nothing about his gameplay. He might claim right for some shits from his stream but nothing about in game footage whatsoever. NUA might as well just go and get the replay of the game and make videos out of it as they are public. In which case no one has a right to say shit about it except Valve. You money whores need to calm the fuck down.

          [–]PPDilltakethebox -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

          dude hes from ukraine what do you expect