上位 200 件のコメント表示する 500

[–](_̅_̅_̅_̅м̲̅a̲̅я̲̅i̲̅j̲̅u̲̅a̲̅n̲̅a̲̅_̅_̅_̅_̅(ด้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็)RightclickWarrior 411ポイント412ポイント  (2子コメント)

Quick! Go downvote SUNSfan!

[–]Nobody enjoys playing against potmsomethingToDoWithMe 434ポイント435ポイント  (138子コメント)

Hey, look! NoobfromUA is taking content from someone else again! I wonder whose side Reddit will take this time!

[–]notamccallister 495ポイント496ポイント  (109子コメント)

NUA is a primary example of why YouTube copyright detection works on an automated system.

https://twitter.com/zai_2002/status/640635278403764225

He's not sorry that he did it, he's sorry that he got caught. He knows he could very easily ask for permission, but that would:

  1. Make the content creator aware to possibly deny the request.

  2. Make the content creator ask for a share of the monetary gains.

Seeing as how this is NUA's full time job, I'm surprised he's so cavalier about walking the line. A few strikes and he basically loses his job. But people are so thirsty for highlights, even though it affects the people who they're actually trying to watch, so they'll side with NUA.

Edit: Oh, look, Zai's totally the bad guy now.

https://twitter.com/NoobFromUA/status/640640427562024960

All zai videos are deleted now. There is no zai content videos in my channel and will never be again.

GOSH ZAI I'M JUST TRYING TO BE A COOL DUDE UPLOADING UR STUFF AND WHY YOU GOTTA BE SO MEAN I'M SORRY I'LL NEVER DO IT AGAIN OH GOD PLEASE STOP HITTING ME. If he really cared he would keep it monetized and give Zai a share. Everybody wins. NUA gets easy money, Zai gets someone to cut his highlights with his permission, and viewers actually get to easily see the highlights.

This is exactly why people are reluctant to call him out. All of a sudden you're a huge douche for wanting to protect your content.

Oh and if this conversation seems familiar to you, it's because this exact issue was brought up one month ago by /u/blitzDOTA

Edit 2: HAHAHHA, HOLY SHIT IS THIS FOR REAL?

This is surreal. If ESEX made a parody of South Park's BP "We're Sorry" montage, this is pretty much exactly what it would be.

[–]TweetsInCommentsBot 61ポイント62ポイント  (1子コメント)

@zai_2002

2015-09-06 21:18 UTC

@NoobFromUA ya i dont care if ur sorry youve been called out before, plz stop using other peoples content for your own monetary gain


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[–]hey ppd teach me how to play rikinotaredditperson 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good bot.

*pets the bot*

[–]Whywouldyou_ 209ポイント210ポイント  (12子コメント)

NUA always plays the victim too, this time saying his english is bad.

[–]SHHH.. only tears now...userwill95 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well this just happened.

Edit: He deleted the permission asking tweets

[–]Nobody enjoys playing against potmsomethingToDoWithMe 91ポイント92ポイント  (6子コメント)

It's really annoying simply from how straight forward the drama is every time but people keep going on about he is such a great guy and look at how nice he is he said he was sorry.

Not to mention the amount of people who simply side with him because he uploads everything so quickly ala the Ti clips he uploaded.

[–]I am a beacon of knowledge blazing out across a black sea of ignCataplexic 29ポイント30ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not to mention the amount of people who simply side with him because he uploads everything so quickly ala the Ti clips he uploaded.

Yea, no one doubts that the videos he puts up are entertaining and up-to-date, and watching his channel is the best way to get caught up on pro plays.

However, it in no way excuses the fact that he alone reaps the financial benefits of his channel, when he aggregates content directly from streams and tournaments. He also clearly stepped over the line with the player profile videos.

He has great potential to run a service for these pro players or tournament organisers, but the way he's operating now will only continue to draw criticism. I want him to change the way he does business, because I love watching his channel.

[–]Reggiardito 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Last time it happened with BTS and everyone kept defending him at first, until everyone realized, what the fuck

[–]rivatia 23ポイント24ポイント  (27子コメント)

I am also wondering, how long his channel will stay online if people just start to file claims against him. Calling him out on social media dosnt seem to change anything.

[–]notamccallister 28ポイント29ポイント  (21子コメント)

I think that's because for the most part people enjoy his service and don't want to shut him down, they just don't appreciate the way he goes about doing his business. I am like 99% sure that if NUA sent a message to Zai being like:

"Hey, a lot of times I do highlight reels of popular players' streams and publish them on my YouTube page. Would you mind if I did this for your stream?"

Zai would say yes, sure, I don't want to go through the trouble of doing it myself, so go for it.

Eventually he's going to step on some big organizations toes for a tournament highlight reel though, if he hasn't already.

[–]Fen_ 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

It would've been gone years ago.

[–]USA USA USAStomo 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

Never did zai once say for anything to be removed, just to be let people be aware, then nua has the audacity to act like zai was actually mad at him so people to pity him as the one being attacked, jesus christ what scum

[–]armin199 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Do you know anything about the legality of his actions? I know there are literary hundreds of channels doing the same thing, and if this is illegal then there's gotta be a serious talk about this issue...

[–]TDA101 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

It almost seems similar too the way the hearthstone videos are created by Trollden. I really can't tell the difference.

It's really just taking clips as fast as possible, editing it with the bare minimum effort for people to consume it and enjoy itand pretending to rehash it as your own.

[–]RAWR!!SmaugTheGreat 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Could also compare it with Reddit. Reddit is a lot quicker than for example JoinDota or other dota-news websites with news, but they are a lot lower in quality than those (usually just small text posts or headlines as opposed to researched articles).

[–]MarikBentusi 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, content aggregation's kind of a service with a lot of demand (as is evident by looking at this very site), so specialized versions of it are almost bound to pop up around communities/hobbies that grow so large there's no way you're gonna be able to watch all the highlights yourself in a reasonable amount of time - thus, highlight reels and content aggregation.

Not that this doesn't make the situation less of a copyright mess, but I think the general phenomenon is so big and consistent that someone's just gonna follow NoobFromUA's footsteps even if he goes down. It probably wouldn't even end if the laws were tightened up, simply because of how much demand for that type of service is out there. Probably only gonna end if someone - somehow - comes up with a smart and convenient way of correctly attributing and sourcing content across the web, but I wouldn't even know where to begin with such an endeavor.

[–]lost hope boysCOMMUNISM_IS_COOL 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

And he just changed his profile picture again. Daym.

[–]youhaveavagina 11ポイント12ポイント  (5子コメント)

Who won?!

[–]danskiiiii 15ポイント16ポイント  (4子コメント)

WHOS NEXT?

[–]CantStopClapping 16ポイント17ポイント  (3子コメント)

YOU DECIDE !

[–]rrrrrrrrRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRsergeantsnorlax 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

eeeEEEEEEPIC RAP BABLOBAHISTRAOZI !!

[–]DLTyrus 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

Every spelling of this I see sounds correct in my head

[–]Lina Del ReyNightmare13xo 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

AND THE WINNER IS.............

JOHN CNEAAAA

[–]dan_csgo 23ポイント24ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah, EE deleted his tweets about NoobFromUA. He called him "a baby" in one tweet, and in another he said "He has perfect english, I spent a week with him at TI3."

[–]GypsyMagic68 23ポイント24ポイント  (0子コメント)

NFUA's "ok" had me cracking up

[–]animegirlavatar 69ポイント70ポイント  (5子コメント)

Cool to see a thread so full of people that are huge fans of upholding copyright law that has no negative impact on the "content creators". No doubt the same vocal supporters of having audio removed from Twitch VODs that play copyrighted music.

[–]Lina INVERSEKnorssman 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

i for one am consistently anti intellectual monopoly

[–]claimred 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

So true. A huge, disgusting copyright upholders coming out. Content stealing, my ass.

[–]IloSophiep 246ポイント247ポイント  (51子コメント)

What a stupid title for a serious problem...
There are players that want to make money and are using their time to create quality content to entertain others - and then there are people that use their time to steal those moments, put them up and get money for it. Nice!

[–]THIS IS GOING TO BE ABSURDallthefoxes 94ポイント95ポイント  (25子コメント)

are using their time to create quality content to entertain others - and then there are people that use their time to steal those moments, put them up and get money for it. Nice!

But Zai doesn't upload them himself. It makes NUAs service valuable to me.

Not defending him, just saying

[–]Nobody reads flairsfoobardota 62ポイント63ポイント  (21子コメント)

That's true. But why does NUA not talk to the creators about an equal share first. Hell, he could even build a business around it.

"Let me do a highlight clip for you, I can guarantee 100k viewers and profit 50% share. Or else pay me X to do it and upload it wherever you want".

[–]Seato2 74ポイント75ポイント  (6子コメント)

That's true. But why does NUA not talk to the creators about an equal share first. Hell, he could even build a business around it.

Because he'd rather steal it and take all the money for himself. There's no point asking for permission if he knows he can (usually) get away with it.

[–]Nevitan[🍰] 41ポイント42ポイント  (9子コメント)

Because the alternative gives him 100% of the profit.

[–]Nobody reads flairsfoobardota 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

Until someone has enough of this and strikes his channel a few times. Then NUA does get nothing ever again.

[–]ano1batman 8ポイント9ポイント  (7子コメント)

50% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

[–]THE SULTAN OF PUSHNoodleNonger 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

He's not getting 100% of nothing at the moment though. For the most part he has no trouble doing it. So the occasional player calls him out and insists he take down his videos and/or ask for permission. He's still getting 100% of the money from all of the videos for players who don't give a shit and that 100% is better than 50% of all players.

[–]ano1batman 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

My point is for the players who want him to ask permission. Generally if you are asking player directly, you could just ask outright for 100% profits, most dont care. But for the few who don't like it, thats where the 50% of something comes in.

[–]THE SULTAN OF PUSHNoodleNonger 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think his problem with that is that he'd probably strike some 50% deals but players would talk about it and the news would spread and it'd slowly become more of a case of doing a 50% split with everyone. Right now he's got a good safe deal - offering splits of any kind introduces unnecessary risk for him.

[–]Secrekt fans back to the dumpster where their original team isGraggPepe[S] 49ポイント50ポイント  (52子コメント)

[–]TweetsInCommentsBot 35ポイント36ポイント  (0子コメント)

@zai_2002

2015-09-06 21:18 UTC

@NoobFromUA ya i dont care if ur sorry youve been called out before, plz stop using other peoples content for your own monetary gain


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[–]Do you like hurting other people?PaleDolphin 34ポイント35ポイント  (48子コメント)

Well, he's not wrong, though.

[–]TweetPoster 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

@zai_2002:

2015-09-06 20:43:46 UTC

.@NoobFromUA um if ur gonna make a video ripping video/audio from my stream could u at least ask for permission, this isnt the first time xd


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[–]900mmr SAHlidskialf 13ポイント14ポイント  (21子コメント)

[–]TweetsInCommentsBot 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

@NoobFromUA

2015-09-06 21:39 UTC

All zai videos are deleted now. There is no zai content videos in my channel and will never be again.


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[–]Don't try to get better at "Dota", focus on one element of Dota.EddieisKing 23ポイント24ポイント  (1子コメント)

I love how he deleted this tweet, what an asshat.

[–]lordofsoup 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

He has to delete it, because next time Zai makes a big play, he wants to upload it.

[–]Minomos 30ポイント31ポイント  (16子コメント)

Couldn't he just start... asking?

[–]Jimbo727 19ポイント20ポイント  (12子コメント)

But then they could say no!

[–]ThePancakerizer 10ポイント11ポイント  (11子コメント)

I think the bigger issue is that people wouldn't respond at all. These questions could easily get buried under @-spam, and even if they respond like 10 hours later the videos will be really late and not as relevant. I am sure he would not be able to do what he does today for a living if he asked first.

[–]GoofyPickles 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's way too much work and it's easier to cry like a baby

[–]I>Well played!Monoben 94ポイント95ポイント  (1子コメント)

Zai needs all the money after the TI loss xd

[–]thetrenchneverends 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Arteezy is handling this the right way. He's talking on his stream about it and saying on the one hand it's great publicity but on the other I'm not getting money which is all that matters. Also saying that in the future before the next major tournament it might make sense to strike a deal where NFUA (or somebody else) gets a percentage for uploading his videos while Arteezy gets the rest.

[–]jkaos92 38ポイント39ポイント  (12子コメント)

Ok here we go again with the Drama.

I fully agree that NUA shouldn't "steal" content from someone else without asking and should share a small percentage of the money from the video.
Btw, everything said above is ONLY part of good ethics.
I want to make some clarifications, even if I am a Zai fun and not support in any way NUA. I want to clarify these things to make you realize how many of you are hypocrites, so feel free to downvote this comment.

  • Although it may seem absurd, there is absolutely no rule/law that prohibits NUA to rip a Zai stream.
    It is ethically wrong, but if you followed him till yesterday and you hated SUNSfan for the statement he made ​​in the past about NUA and you have supported NUA on that occasion, I don't see why you are on the Zai side now. Why SUNSfan was wrong and Zai is right?
  • It was much more founded the complaint of SUNSfan and I remind you that many here hated him for that. Also tell me reddit, given that we want to enter in the law and good ethics, how many streamers pay and give the rights for the music that they stream?
    For example, when I go to see a streamer and there is his horrible music in the background, of course, I go there to see him play, however, I hear his music, that it's "stolen". Not to mention the fact that probably has been downloaded "illegally" (welcome to internet jkaos, but hey also Zai "steal" content, who care?).
  • Third point, less relevant , many who are angry for NUA facts, probably watching his videos and all other on youtube with Adblock active and downloading ILL-EAGLE-music from the internet (yeah me too).
    If you are this guy, please take 1 minute to think about it, you are dirty just like NUA.

[–]Earlaway 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

There is one major difference with the zai and the sunsfan drama. Zai is calling NUA out for taking his content. Sunsfan is calling out NUA for taking valves content.

Valve does not monetize the interviews, and do not host TI5 (where the content was taken from) to monetize the viewers of the event. They do not run ads, they let anyone who wants restream the games/ the event, etc. Their goal is just to spread the word of dota 2. It is completely reasonable that Valve actually is for NUA uploading their TI5 content to his channel as it would spread the content to his subscribers.

Obviously asking valve is the right way to go about this, but seeing as how it can take valve weeks to fix simple customer support issues I doubt they will get back to him on being allowed to upload their TI5 content ever.

Slightly related, but does not oddshot do something of the same? Oddshot does not require a streamers approval to upload their clips do they?

[–]rooxo 5ポイント6ポイント  (6子コメント)

  1. AFAIK copyright law prohibits what nua is doing(im not entirely sure though) since the content zai created is owned by him Also I do think sunsfan was right when calling him out for stealing valves content(and later reddit agreed too iirc it's just that sunsfan isnt very popular)

  2. I don't think people hated him for that particular reason he wasn't very popular anyways If streamers use music they aren't allowed to stream then that isn't better than what nua is doing, but since this never was an issue ever I guess that copyright allows this usage of music and how the music was downloaded doesn't actually matter unless you actually know where it's from(Spotify is free for example and not illegal)

  3. If you're putting nua and illegal downloads on the same level then you know what the punishment would be right? When you get caught pirating you have to pay huge fines. Also, the difference is internet pirates don't try to make money with the content they took

Edit: ok so I looked it up and it turns out if your stream has music that is not in the twitch music library and copyrighted you will get banned if you get a DMCA notice by the copyright holder So on twitch copyright violation does get punished while nua doesn't

[–]socrates111 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

zai created is owned by

this couldn't be further from the truth. Zai doesn't own the content.

[–]RubickElfclan30 18ポイント19ポイント  (3子コメント)

I know it is wrong, but I am always looking foward NFUA videos since I cant watch streams.

[–]Argoniur 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

It is not wrong lmao... whats wrong is Noobfromua not asking ANYONE permission before posting their stuff..

[–]PUMMELOSGametendo 10ポイント11ポイント  (6子コメント)

I wanna know how the hell does NoobFromUA get content so fast?

[–]tackledhydra 11ポイント12ポイント  (9子コメント)

ehm.

isnt what he is doing considered fair use of whatever its called?

[–]ano1batman 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

No, from what i understand (i dont watch him) he takes directly from STREAMS. Which technically the streamer (or more likely twitch) owns the rights to since its their own content. The only way he could was if he went through in game and watched each match from player perspective. This was actually a huge problem awhile ago in LoL because someone was streaming a pro player's games without permission and the player got angry. The thing was he was technically allowed to do it since he could just say he was streaming the other players or something like that. I have no idea how that ended though.

[–]Riddlr 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

he actually doesn't pull from streams. if you look at his videos of singsing, miracle, etc. they're all replays. and same with his match videos, which are replays with in-game caster audio.

[–]Tuskinton 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

But in this case, Zai is complaining that NFUA ripped it directly from his stream. NFUA usually doesn't do this, and as long as he's not directly taking the footage from anyone's stream and reuploading it, he can easily argue fair use.

[–]MavyGG 87ポイント88ポイント  (61子コメント)

meanwhile

Zai downloading Torrents

[–]fuck egRiskyChris 73ポイント74ポイント  (14子コメント)

Being hypocritical doesn't make you wrong, you're just a hypocrite.

[–]fuck egasacoffee 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

is he really downloading them on stream?

[–]postaldude 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

depends on the laws in your country

[–]What team will I bandwagon now? ;_;RequiemFear 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

Isn't downloading copyrighted material for personal use legal in Sweden?

[–]I am a beacon of knowledge blazing out across a black sea of ignCataplexic -2ポイント-1ポイント  (27子コメント)

meanwhile

Ad hominem arguments

[–]If you're reading this I'm raxing youffFanatique 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

that's a tu quoque actually get your shitposting right

[–]TNGDS 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's not an ad hominem it's a joke pointing out his hypocrisy. Even if he is right.

[–]jackindisguise 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I know it feels cool when you get to label people as dishonest, but he's not making a formal argument as to why Zai's apparent hypocrisy means he's not allowed to make moral or legal judgements. It's not ad hominem.

[–]balanced damage output birdtwersx 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

reddit, where everything not directly related is an ad hominem.

[–]Lina INVERSEKnorssman 0ポイント1ポイント  (17子コメント)

zai downloading torrents seems directly related to the question of whether zai has any intellectual monopoly entitlements to the videos NUA uploads, not an ad hominem

[–]asfastasican1 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

If I was NUA, I would immediately mail out a check made out to Zai for the amount of $10 with a note saying "Your share." Then when Zai reacts to it and posts about it on his twitter, I would reap the benefits of free publicity from another front page reddit thread.

[–]DaGetz 79ポイント80ポイント  (50子コメント)

Everyone here is a lawyer it seems.

As far as I know there is nothing legally wrong with what NUA is doing and is not a valid copyright strike. It would be different if NUA was just reposting streams but he's providing a service.

I think this is a serious issue that needs a serious conversation with people that actually know what they are talking about so pitchforks r us right here probably isn't the right forum.

Edit: Go read this

[–]KingOwl 40ポイント41ポイント  (5子コメント)

Exactly. These weren't issues until his videos started blowing up. Many other channels do this but his are high quality and uploaded quickly, so naturally his are more appealing. I'm sure he doesn't know what content can be monetized and what can't (and I'm sure Zai doesn't either) but when you've been doing this for 2+ years and no one says anything what are you supposed to think. Reddit is just going to jump on whoever they can, whoever seems to be the target for a front page post is going to be the victim of some pitchforkin'.

[–]DaGetz 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah well if you read this thread you'd be forgiven for thinking reddit thinks he's some big bad corporation trying to steal Zai's content when I'm pretty sure he's just a kid from the Ukraine that likes Dota.

[–]goldrogers 27ポイント28ポイント  (6子コメント)

Which country's copyright laws apply? U.S.? EU? If U.S., which circuit?

Under the four factor test applied in U.S. law re: fair use:

1) Purpose / character of use: NUA could argue non-commercial (hobby, he's not trying to make money off of it), but he may be receiving money from YouTube. If so, NUA's use of zai's work would likely be viewed as commercial in nature. And since there is very little editing besides slicing and dicing, NUA's work is not very transformative.

2) Nature of work: Despite US Supreme Court precedent, the analysis of this factor can still take into account artistic merit, moral rights of artist, etc. The work is non-fictional, and zai streamed it publicly on Twitch. Overall this factor appears to favor NUA.

3) Amount, substantiality: Since these are highlight reels, the amount of the overall stream "published" that NUA appropriates is quite small compared to the overall content. Then again, NUA's use of the hightlight clips are not like using small snippets of a book to write a book review... the parts NUA is copying are "highlights" of a match / matches. zai could make a strong argument that the portions copied although quite small are the heart of the work and thus substantial. This factor likely favors zai.

4) Effect on work's value: NUA's argument would likely be that zai isn't creating highlight reels himself, so he's not harming zai's ability to exploit his own work. Then again, zai could argue that NUA's highlight reels make it less likely for viewers to tune into his Twitch stream, instead choosing to watch just the highlight reels for the "good parts." Even outside direct market substitution, zai could argue that NUA's use of portions of his work without permission harms his ability to license rights to his work to content creators like NUA who make highlight reels and other Dota related content. Again, this factor likely favors zai.

Looking at all the factors together, NUA's use of zai's work, while minimal in nature compared to the overall content zai produces and not really harming the nature of zai's work, is likely commercial in nature, is not a parody or very transformative, is probably substantial in nature though not large in amount (nor wholesale copying of entire streams), and affects zai's ability to license out his work. Not taking into consideration the TOSes of Twitch or YouTube, I believe a U.S. federal court in ruling on this would result in a victory for zai.

[–]Obloblomov 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm sure pragmatism and discussion is what people in this thread are after lmao

[–]LazyBlueStar 5ポイント6ポイント  (21子コメント)

So if i cut some parts of a movie and monetize is that's not stealing? Hey, im just providing a service guys~

[–]ThePurplePanzy 2ポイント3ポイント  (11子コメント)

It's called "fair use". How do you think movie reviews or parody videos happen?

[–]ceildric 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

"Fair use" doesn't cover straight up reproduction without added content, and it generally has limits (i.e. you can show short clips, but not a complete movie).

[–]Ryaqsm 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

So what was the content in question? What pro players do on stream doesn't meet minimal standards of any creative work, at least that Youtuber adds some value to it by cutting it down.

Bet Zai never pirated any material either.

[–]Diavolo222 14ポイント15ポイント  (11子コメント)

I'm not defending him but arent all stream highlights on youtube basically stealing content ? It's a service provided by people. There are a ton of other popular channels that upload stuff like bulldog/singsing stream highlights ( and there are a lot of channels that do this ) that go for like 10+ minutes.

Again, I'm not defending but do we really need to get angry about stream highlights ?

[–]Excuse me, where are the ancients?draanexle 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, until we get some other drama to be angry with, then we'll be mad about this.

[–]EG!Yackback 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's covering his eyes as he can't take it anymore.

[–]LordDarkLordtheDark 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

I'm unaware of twitch streaming rules. Can someone help me out here? Is it explicitly stated anywhere during a stream that the streamed content is the sole right of the streamer and it is forbidden to be used by anyone else? Or is this more of an implicit thing?

It is my thoughts that if a streamer hasn't made it entirely clear during their stream that they don't want the content used that broadcasting it en mass means it is probably publicly available content. I liken it to how Dota 2 is trademarked but the content within (ie replays, tournaments etc) can be monetized via youtube and other sources for monetary gain.

Is this correct or have I made a mistake in my thinking? I want to be informed before I figure out which side I back. Thanks!

[–]Behold all these lives for the taking!ThatOnePerson 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

I think it's more implicit with copyright. At least in the US, any work you produce is automatically copyright yours.

Since he is using it without a license, that's copyright infringement. Twitch ToS already has a clause about you granting them a license to stream the video:

http://www.twitch.tv/p/terms_of_service Section 2.1:

you hereby grant to Twitch a worldwide, nonexclusive, royalty-free, perpetual, transferable and fully sublicensable right to use, host, convert for streaming, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform, display and otherwise exploit your Broadcaster Content, in any form, format, media or media channels now known or later developed or discovered. You grant Twitch and our sublicensees the right to use the name that you submit in connection with that content, if we or they choose.

[–]LiMpIcHLimpich 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

If Zai dont take the time to upload it himself why does he complain to begin with, the material is there to be seen already and he dont get a dime for someone watching a VOD

[–]Calculatores 9ポイント10ポイント  (13子コメント)

how is the law between valve and streamers? is it generally allowed from valve to stream their game? just asking, not really related to the mad grill and nua

[–]даRiotCykablyat 32ポイント33ポイント  (10子コメント)

http://www.valvesoftware.com/videopolicy.html

Valve Video Policy

We encourage our users to make videos using Valve game content, such as playthrough or instruction videos or SFM movies. We are fine with publishing these videos to your website or YouTube or similar video sharing services. We're not fine with taking assets from our games (e.g. voice, music, items) and distributing those separately.

Use of our content in videos must be non-commercial. By that we mean you can't charge users to view or access your videos. You also can't sell or license your videos to others for a payment of any kind.

You are free to monetize your videos via the YouTube partner program and similar programs on other video sharing sites. Please don't ask us to write YouTube and tell them its fine with us to post a particular video using Valve content. It's not possible to respond to each such request. Point them to this page.

Of course this policy applies only to Valve content. If you include someone else's content in your video, such as music, you will have to get permission from the owner.

[–]jmayer768 7ポイント8ポイント  (6子コメント)

You also can't sell or license your videos to others for a payment of any kind.

Does that mean NoobfromUA actually doesn't need permission ? My understanding since you can't license your videos they are free to use or am I wrong.

[–]Revanide 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

He doesn't for the actual streams themselves but anything not part of valve's services isn't covered, like zai's audio and webcam(Idk if he uses one, just saying if)

[–]jmayer768 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

So technically he could just instead use in game footage from Dota-TV and not have to ask anyone's permission ?

[–]Revanide 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

He actually does use in game footage and then overlay the webcam and audio for better angles often. But yes, he could do that but then its just plays and no personality

[–]theonlydkdreng 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think that would depend on whether NUA takes the content from an ingame replay or directly from the stream, as zai's reaction is part of the value in the clip

[–]THD actually the best heroelias2718 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

This link is all I know of.

[–]Dikong227 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

[–]TweetsInCommentsBot 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

@NoobFromUA

2015-09-07 00:54 UTC

@WagaGaming Hello. I am noobfromua. I wanted to ask if you give me permission to sometimes use your stream content in my youtube videos.


@NoobFromUA

2015-09-07 00:54 UTC

@Arteezy Hello. I am noobfromua. I wanted to ask if you give me permission to sometimes use your stream content in my youtube videos.


@NoobFromUA

2015-09-07 00:54 UTC

@EternaLEnVy1991 Hello. I am noobfromua. I wanted to ask if you give me permission to sometimes use your stream content in my youtube videos


@NoobFromUA

2015-09-07 00:55 UTC

@Sing2X Hello. I am noobfromua. I wanted to ask if you give me permission to sometimes use your stream content in my youtube videos.


@NoobFromUA

2015-09-07 00:55 UTC

@AdmiralBulldog Hello. I am noobfromua. I wanted to ask if you give me permission to sometimes use your stream content in my youtube videos.


@NoobFromUA

2015-09-07 00:55 UTC

@DendiBoss Hello. I am noobfromua. I wanted to ask if you give me permission to sometimes use your stream content in my youtube videos.


@NoobFromUA

2015-09-07 01:04 UTC

@BigDaddyN0tail Hello. I am noobfromua. I wanted to ask if you give me permission to use your stream content in my youtube videos.


This message was created by a bot

[Contact creator][Source code]

[–]mrbrannon 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

This whole thing is ridiculous. These highlight videos should be covered under fair use. Commercial use does not negate fair use as long as it is some form of original content or reporting (which I think NUA's videos are) and that it does not highly impact the copyright owner's ability to profit. If anything, I think NUA actually brings attention and thus profit to Zai's streaming. I never watch Zai's stream but because of these videos, I am thus more informed about his ability and more inclined to watch his stream in the future.

Just for clarification, I am not a lawyer. But I feel like Zai should be more in touch with how the community as a whole views and consumes his content and what this means for his popularity and profit viability.

[–]RmZ1989 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Vast majority doesn't understand this or just have different point of view...

[–]stuflx 15ポイント16ポイント  (12子コメント)

Seriously though.. I realise it's 'morally wrong' without permission, but is there any actual legal recourse? The content is publicly available (i.e. not behind a pay-wall, unlike the music Zai uses in his stream) and the gameplay is representative of Valve from whom he has permission to upload.

Does Zai have a leg to stand on legally? If not I say fuck him. NoobfromUA does good by this community. Who cares if he earns a few bucks doing it.

[–]PurgeGamers 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

and the gameplay is representative of Valve from whom he has permission to upload.

This only applies if he's taking a recording from the Dota 2 client(which is legally fine). if he's ripping straight from a stream and monetizing then he's recording twitch footage from someone else's work who happens to be playing dota 2.

That doesn't mean valve gives him permission to monetize just because the game was dota 2.

[–]Ragnagord 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

Publicly available definitely does not imply freely shareable. The content remains the property of its creator and all rights reserved, unless explicitly stated otherwise.

[–]Dazzledorkmania 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Assume I have community that I do good by if I flame you. As per the rules of the subreddit if I insulted you indirectly (Read Not Directly), do you have a leg to stand on legally? If not I say... (do you really need me to spell it out?). I do good by my community. Who cares if I earn a few upvotes doing it.

[–]Aeileon 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

How come someone like NUA is seen as someone stealing other people's content for his own gain but someone like Trolden is pretty respected amongst the hearthstone community for doing something similar. Is it just how they go about it?

[–]It's in the begraylucker[🍰] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

HAHA Poor NUA HAHA

[–]Ac3Zer0 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Boy oh boy NUA is now asking every streamer whether he can use their content.

[–]Arteezy fan hereomeepo 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Whats wrong with them wanting noobfromua to just ask?

[–]Silvermaine- 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Zai has valid points but doesn't he get like free promotion with his stream being highlighted in a well-known Youtube channel? And if he's going to call out NFUA, he should call out the others too.

[–]E_KevinTurtle_Ma 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Zai your low testosterone levels are showing you little bitch boy. You are so fucking ugly and your face screams estrogen. You are also a shy little bitch.

[–]socrates111 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would say not only is NoobfromUA totally in the clear (because Zai's streams is obviously not copy righted material), but Zai should be faulted for getting close to breaking this clause of Valve's video policy for Dota, "By that we mean you can't charge users to view or access your videos. You also can't sell or license your videos to others for a payment of any kind." (and obviously itn's not a privacy argument).

ya, down vote me.

[–]ph2fg 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

some people over here don't realize that NoobfromUA is actually a dota fan... the speed of his highlights can come from nothing else than actually watching the games live. he's part of the dota community, not a vulture feeding off it and watching games in his spare time.

keep asking him to go corporate, asking some minuscule streamer's permission for some ridiculously unimportant stream highlight, which would probably not even be discussed twice if NUA didn't pick it up, and you'll see him drop the game altogether.

and please, don't say zai is streaming for personal gain, that he's living off it... please... we all know why they stream, they're forced to by the sponsors, and do it so relunctantly that the biggest players stream the least. (apart very special cases who have their own contract and so on..)

[–]NAVI GGAgrDotA 21ポイント22ポイント  (18子コメント)

I'm assuming Zai asks permission for every song he plays on his stream.

Got to give the artist's credit.

[–]plainpenguin 29ポイント30ポイント  (12子コメント)

There's a difference. When people watch Zai's stream, they come for Zai and Dota 2, the music is muted for anyone who doesn't watch it live. People doesn't watch NoobFromUA because of him or his plays, they watch it for SingSing, Zai, RTZ, Bulldong and every other streamer he takes content from. On top of this, the content he uses from someone else is stored on his channels for monetary gain for the forseable future, as opposed to the music used on Zai's stream.

[–]Buff for fuck sake. RIP C9TheRandomRGU 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well I go to EE for his music and the occasional shouting.

[–]moldywarpe 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

It doesn't matter whether they come for the music or zai, it's not his music to use and he shouldn't be using it. if it makes no difference to viewer count then I'm sure he won't mind not using it, right?

[–]all_thetime 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah but I'd suspect that most of NUA's viewers don't have the patience to look through past streams to look for the highlights. I don't ever really remember looking at a streamer's past broadcasts. I only ever watch them live. I think highlight videos fall into a different category.

[–]You're a flower!trunicated 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

So that makes NoobFromUA right, and everything Zai says wrong, right?

[–]So handsomephasmy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Completely the same thing. Like exactly the same. There's no difference as to what is happening here xd

[–][削除されました]  (18子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)rinnagz 12ポイント13ポイント  (14子コメント)

    it is stealing, he needs to ask for permission if he is going to use it even when the creator is not going to use it for anything.

    [–]dtr- 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

    'potential money' is always there whether Zai has his own youtube page or not. And even if it isn't there, it's still not ok for NUA to just take it.

    [–]Powder's Drymaccabeus 8ポイント9ポイント  (10子コメント)

    Zai is just mad that NUA is making money off of what he refuses to provide for his own fans. He's mad that NUA posted video from his stream, but when was the last time Zai posted his own stream highlights? His twitch page just has whole stream vods with half or more of the audio muted. If you want to see a great play from his last stream, you need to guess until you find the time, and then hope it hasn't been muted. Zai doesn't do highlights, he doesn't record and put games on youtube. He just streams and leaves the muted vod in his page.

    I can understand the controversy with posting the vids from TI, since valve were uploading them to their own channel and NUA was just getting them up faster. But to say "I don't care enough to curate this content, but fuck you if you do it yourself" is just selfish. There is no lost revenue here. Zai profits from streaming. He abandons his content the second it is created, and NUA actually puts in the effort to produce the videos for his viewers.

    [–]lost hope boysCOMMUNISM_IS_COOL 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

    It doesn't matter if the fans don't get the VOD, it just leaves bitter fans, but they don't have the privilege to demand the VODs all of a sudden. It's his, and whether he wants to upload the manually or not is up to him.

    [–]soprof 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Counter-productive point of view.

    [–]k292 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    you seem to be making the assumption that zai's vods NEED to be uploaded, and that fans have the right to see them. If zai chooses to not upload them, for whatever reason (being lazy, wanting to provide incentive for people to actually watch the streams, time constraints, etc), that is his choice and his alone.

    Your entire thought seems to be "if you aren't going to do X with your product, anyone else can because the product NEEDS to have X done to it."

    That is bullshit and i hope at least some of the people who support you realize how unethical it is

    [–]elitealpha 4ポイント5ポイント  (46子コメント)

    I am on neutral side. I just wonder, do we need to ask permission to re-post someone else's online stuff like this?

    [–]GET OFF MY LAWN!Tehmaxx 39ポイント40ポイント  (16子コメント)

    If it's monetised, yes.

    [–]Aron_b 14ポイント15ポイント  (10子コメント)

    Even if it isn't monetised, still yes...

    [–]GET OFF MY LAWN!Tehmaxx 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    what are you going to sue for? Libel?

    [–]Aron_b 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    An injuction? Court isn't solely for the purpose of getting awarded damages.

    At any rate, nobody said anything about going to court. We're talking about substantive copyright law here and that states you're not allowed to distribute a work without the permission of the right's holder.

    [–]lost hope boysCOMMUNISM_IS_COOL 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Although if it isn't monetised, there's less of an issue. Not saying it isn't an issue, though.

    [–]all_thetime 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

    what if he went into the dota client and looked up the match id?

    Not saying he did, but IF he started doing that would he be in the wrong?

    [–]comradewilson 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    No he wouldn't, but that's not what the issue is. The issue is he took the video and audio from Zai's stream itself.

    [–]newmeta44 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    How would I know if it is monetized? For ex. it might be the case that somebody pays you for posting comments on redddit and if I repost one of your comments it appears that I stole your property? ?_?

    [–]Calculatores 0ポイント1ポイント  (24子コメント)

    I'm curious because the streamers don't program their games so they also profit from others work, right? So it's not so far away that NUA could do the same without getting slaughtered by the community. Or any other viable source of stream sniping. Sure the streamers payed for it in some way (regular licence for the game or dota hats e.g. in f2p titles) and they just play it and get money from the stream. Nothing in between NUA and the streamers tbh

    [–]http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198039475565/MrTheodore 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

    valve allows you to use their content as long as you dont have to pay to access it, so they dont care as long as you arent trying to make your own f2p documentary dvd's or some shit

    when you add your own content to it like voice, camera work (just playing no talking), or video like from a webcam, it's yours.

    I'd have to look up twitch ToS, but I'm pretty sure they give you your content and you're allowed to host it on their site, so it basically amounts to just UA stealing and taking views away from zai highlight videos, or it's posting something he doesn't want to be posted (like he rages in a pub, just wants it to get forgotten, his content, zai's can do what he wants)

    [–]mikembley 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    pay to access it

    I'm curious. Do subscriptions, donations or adverts fall under that?

    Edit: Nevermind i found out

    You are free to monetize your videos via the YouTube partner program and similar programs on other video sharing sites. Please don't ask us to write YouTube and tell them its fine with us to post a particular video using Valve content

    [–]SublimeSC 6ポイント7ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Do we hate NUA now?

    [–]Valve pls buffMinitell 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Nope, not until he starts using oddshot at least.

    [–]theqat 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    zai owns

    [–]Krockadyl 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Remember people, we used to have people who literally ran away with prize money and merchandize. (one of whom actually works for Navi and 2P now). Plain and simple Opportunism here, thankfully easier to deal with.

    This is atleast an easier problem to solve. Its really upto the creators to maintain and track their footage and file a copyright infringement complaint with Youtube. I don't know if a tweet or two will stop such kind of activity.

    Also does Oddshot.tv ask for permissions and follow some process to put the videos? I'm curious as I don't know how that works.

    [–]\O/ Take my energy C9 \O/Volvothings 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Are people stupid or what this is internet some random guy can take zai videos and make fun of them and what what can zai do nothing.

    [–]Good idea. Cause it was mine.CantIgnoreMyGirth 0ポイント1ポイント  (19子コメント)

    As much as I want to side with the angry people whose content they feel is being "stolen". Fact is I would never see any of this stuff without NoobFromUA, I would just have tons of clips from creators with no idea if they are worth watching.

    NoobfromUA <-- He's the hero the dota community deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt him. Because he can take it. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a twitch watching protector. A Content Filterer.

    [–]utchemfan 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

    Content filter...hmm...looks around the website he's on

    Definitely nothing like that here.

    [–]THE SULTAN OF PUSHNoodleNonger 8ポイント9ポイント  (6子コメント)

    He means in the sense that many studios and streamers would not bother to sieve through their content or big games. For example, a game like this one would probably just be uploaded in full. At best there would be a single highlight clip of one particular play uploaded but NoobfromUA is the only guy who bothers to cut down the entire game into easily digestable clips like that and skip all the shitty farming and snoozefests.

    [–]Good idea. Cause it was mine.CantIgnoreMyGirth 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Pretty much this. I am not going to watch every single game studios post(and they post tons of crap videos along with good clips since they make money when someone watches so they just make a video for everything) whereas noobfromUA just posts the good stuff from generally good games/streams which actually causes me to watch the stuff.

    Furthermore I am more likely to follow a streamer because I watched a NoobfromUA's video.

    [–]ceildric 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Don't try to cast some aspersions of nobility onto this guy. He's not doing this for you or the community. He's doing it to put some money in his pocket.

    Furthermore, the fact that you might have to sift through more videos to find these highlights doesn't make his actions any less ethically questionable. It is like if I were to rob a store and conclude, "Yeah, I kind of want to side with the angry people saying I'm a thief, but hey, I never would have had access to this sweet loot otherwise." It totally misses the point.

    [–]THIS IS GOING TO BE ABSURDallthefoxes 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Yeah and a lot of other things are to put money in someone's pocket. That doesnt make it any less valuable or bad

    [–]Reptarisgreen 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    The NoobfromUA circle jerk is ridiculous. No matter how you look at it he takes content that isnt his and makes money off of it. Is he the only one that does this? No, but that doesn't stop reddit defending him. Just because other people are doing it does not make it right. "But he puts up the content so fast, and sometimes the content creator wont put it up." If the content creator doesn't put it up then it shouldn't be up.

    [–]Balance In All ThingsLolzmaker 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    This subreddit is actually fucking ridiculous, like really? Does anyone remember this thread? Where everyone just bitched about sunsfan when he was doing just the same thing Zai is doing now? most of you are fuckin tards lmfao

    [–]Once you go R[A]T you never go back.Baltowolf 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    LOL the "what about the music you use on stream" tweet. REKT.

    [–]proworks31 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    this is someone's response to zai's tweet LMAO

    'let's be honest though your argument is kind of dumb. You're using Dota for monetary gain, did you make it?'

    [–]inpathos 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

    ITT: Reddit users defending copyright as if their lives were on the line.

    [–]IAMBollock 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Why do I bother reading comments in this shithole of a subreddit. It only ever annoys me.

    [–]ebNNN 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

    which video was it? for us that never saw it

    [–]Lina INVERSEKnorssman 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    its a shame, if this actually continues the community will eat itself

    [–]Dotagear 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Seriously, how people are defending noobfromua?

    Guy is literally taking content of other people and monetizing it for his own good. It's disgusting.

    EDIT: The "zai has no youtube channel so its his own fault" argument is bullshit. That doesn't give noobfromua any rights to upload his content and monetize it.

    [–]xOzone 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I like that zai did this. When someone is using your content without even asking, you call them out if it bothers you. Don't pussy out in situations like this and don't worry about looking like a douche or what others might think, cus in the end, whether they like it or not, you're in the right.

    [–]eeemile -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Zai is being a hypocrite. He is using others copyrighted music during his streams. Why does he even care? It's free advertisement if you ask me. Especially since he doesn't even upload his own content on youtube (as far as I know).

    [–]MechaKnightz 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    would streaming on youtube hinder this since they have some copyright system or am i wrong?

    [–]bromeatmeco 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I've always wondered, what does the UA stand for in Noob from UA?

    [–]I am a beacon of knowledge blazing out across a black sea of ignCataplexic 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Ukraine

    [–]foolishnesss 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I've been interested in people's opinion on people like noobfromua and overall opinion on piracy. Is it the fact that he's making money from it that upsets people?

    [–]ykk211 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'm  sorry

    [–]jordzkie05 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    confirmed, noobfromua is jack sparrow