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MISC.#MetalGate requests assistance (self.KotakuInAction)

thecultofjim が 投稿

Greetings.

We're well-aware that GG is more geared towards journalistic ethics, with only certain members being anti-Political Correctness, so this is request is only for those who are interested. Those of us in MG are more on the anti-censorship front, viewing Political Correctness as a plague that shuts down essential dialogue and debate, and what we see below is an egregious affront to free speech.

It has recently come to our attention that a band called Viranesir is being censored by Bandcamp. Viranesir uses racist and sexist terminology to mock it, making the songs as offensive as possible to open up discussion on taboo topics or mock outright idiocy (such as vegans calling omnivores murderers). I suggest some polite emails to the site asking why they are censoring this, or, if you prefer the stack method, why they’re discriminating against a Turkish/Armenian bisexual man who mocks Hitler by dressing in drag.

Emir Togrul from the band said, “Viranesir was formed as one of my side projects to fuel my main bands YAYLA and BLLIIGGHHTTED. Over time it became a crazy project with crazy music and crazier subject matter! I have songs called ” Heil Hitler!”, “Armenian Genocide Is Amazing”, “Child Molesting Rapist Murderer”, “I Only Like Jews When They Kill Muslims”, “I Only Like Gays When They Scream Like The Opposite Sex As I Rape Them”. I am not a nazi, nor a homphobe. I am half Turkish half Armenian (not exactly Aryan now is it:), and bisexual (aka I proudly suck cock). Not to say I have never been offensive, I have been very offensive… The most offensive thing I have ever done was to put Hitler’s name on an album on the cover of which I appear in drag (neo-nazis must have got very offended by this, I apologize guys), and saying I Love Torturing Defenseless Creatures And Eating Them referring to what I enjoy everyday as a meat eater, or perhaps say Rats Flock Into The Temple referring to Muslims (need I say more). All I ever did was to pull these taboo subjects out of their untouchable contexts and open them up for discussion, because they are very stupid and personally through a sense of humor, better be opened up for discussion in my opinion. The idiots in bandcamp didn’t get it and banned me, big deal.”

Currently, we're not considering a boycott due to the fact many underground bands use Bandcamp as a means to get their music out there and make a few pennies off of tracks/albums sold. I'm open to ideas and criticisms, but we would like to avoid artificially swelling our numbers by piggybacking off of GG. Besides, we've been the Satanic Baby Killers for decades, and don't see the need to dirty your movement with our filth. ;-)

More on the topic here: http://www.deathmetal.org/news/black-metal-band-viranesir-censored-by-bandcamp/

Video from Viranesir about it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLsFBlpfSfg

Bandcamp’s contact page: https://bandcamp.com/contact

Thank you for taking the time to read this, and in advance for those who help or offer input.

...Edit 1...

This is not an attempt to slay the beast. As far as we can tell, this is an isolated incident involving a single band with controversial song titles and lyrics. Although it would be great, the goal isn't to get them to reinstate the band, as they've already said in the article that they've already cut their losses and are looking at alternatives. Thus why we're trying the carrot before the stick. This is more to get an explanation (as I currently see it, a simple ToS violation excuse would do), and to let them know they're being watched. Should this go from a single instance to a trend, then other options will be considered. We do not wish to burn bridges unless absolutely necessary.

...Edit 2...

An interview with the band from 2014: http://www.deathmetal.org/interview/interview-with-viranesir/

...Edit 3...

Blog entry the statement in the first article was taken from: http://merdumgiriz.org/ETLit.html#fb

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[–]Zero132132 48ポイント49ポイント  (17子コメント)

I'll send them an e-mail. I'm a metal fan, and while I generally don't give a fuck about the culture wars shit, you can not fucking ask metalheads to sit down and play nice.

Fuck. That.

[–]Zero132132 28ポイント29ポイント  (15子コメント)

Son of a bitch... it's actually in their ToS.

http://archive.is/GQfnH#selection-177.132-177.163

They've restricted content that "is unlawful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, libelous, deceptive, fraudulent, invasive of another's privacy, tortious, obscene, offensive, or profane" since at least 2010. We'd be calling for a significant policy reversal.

I'm still writing my e-mail, but that makes it a bit more difficult.

[–]FuckAllRedditCEOs 42ポイント43ポイント  (11子コメント)

obscene, offensive, or profane

So every metal band ever?

[–]HariMichaelson 21ポイント22ポイント  (2子コメント)

All the good ones at any rate.

[–]Unconfidence 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not Infant Annihilator though, they don't offend anyone.

[–]AzraelBaneDaedric Shitlord 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

It goes back to the whole who decides what is offensive thing though

[–]Zero132132 9ポイント10ポイント  (5子コメント)

Exactly. Seems like Bandcamp isn't great for metal musicians. If they have policies which actively favor certain musical styles, that kind of pisses me off. I was just surprised when the archives showed that the policy that likely led them to this decision was active at least 5 years ago.

[–]FuckAllRedditCEOs 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Really? I've seen a lot of metal there, for many labels it's their only digital store. A lot of offensive, or let's say, "dubious" bands there, but they could have flown under the radar.

[–]CatatonicMan 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'd guess it's more of a selective enforcement thing.

[–]tekende 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would imagine someone has to complain first. I doubt bandcamp's staff listens to everything that gets posted to make sure it's all kosher.

[–]Armagetiton 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

More like it's not good for this guy's music.

Here's a playlist of the band in question

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlmImZPX0Jk&list=PLn_P1--CjGVHEe2QCguJVecjzSLk1AgET&index=1

He's just another Seth Putnam wannabe (see my other post here) except his music sounds like shit and he's not nearly as funny or creative.

This dude is just being a whine baby, fuck him. Being banned from events and tours is part of following Putnam's footsteps.

[–]jjkmk 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'd argue that band camps top sales are from progressive metal and djent bands.

It works great for metal, my former band made the majority of our sales on there.

[–]Elite_AI 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm guessing it's more so they can remove any problematic (kek) album freely, but they don't actually have to if they're just swearing (i.e. not shouting "gas the kikes race war now").

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's boilerplate in almost all online service provider contracts. It means nothing. It all depends on how much pushback they get.

[–]ExplosionSanta 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well that's bad news for hip hop artists

[–]NopeNaw 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

fffffffffffffffffffff

and I liked Bandcamp as a platform for new music...

[–]thecultofjim[S] 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Respectable- there's a lot of whining and pissantry on all sides of the culture war, including some of my own antics within it.

[–]DangerouslyGoneAlone 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think it would be best to write as many articles as possible on how silly it is to censor metal given the usual nature of the genre. I like this guy's style but he's probably better off figuring out a business model that will accept his heresy without giving a shit, most companies are not going to want to have to deal with the backlash from song titles like these.

[–]boommicfucker 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't know if you have much of a case, their Terms of Use don't allow content that is "obscene, offensive, or profane". So unless you can find examples of content on a similar level that is tolerated by them (ie selective enforcement of the terms) there isn't much to do I think. Sucks but they might just want to look for alternative services, just like with GitHub.

[–]thecultofjim[S] 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think this might fit the bill: https://castrator.bandcamp.com/track/the-emasculator

[–]boommicfucker 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, there you go, that's something to go on. Ask them why this is okay but the other band's content isn't.

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate 19ポイント20ポイント  (3子コメント)

OP, I have sympathy for your situation. One of the best intro texts I read about SJWs was on a death metal site. You guys get this, and you deserve our support.

Here are some things I'll suggest:

  • Boycotting would have been the most powerful tool, and you know this, but for your own reasons, you don't want to do this. This is fine.
  • A direct email campaign, both to the service provider (Bandcamp) and to its advertisers/partners/affiliates should be started. Get contact info and an outline out through your social media channels and get your fans to write, write, write.
  • Get some posts about this out on news sites and blogs that are sympathetic to your cause.
  • Try to get a hashtag established, through which people can find each other. #MetalGate works, I've seen it in the wild since winter 2014, or something else.
  • Read Vox Day's SJWs Always Lie to learn in detail exactly what you're dealing with. A free excerpt is available here.

Good luck.

[–]disposableaccount900 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

One of the best intro texts I read about SJWs was on a death metal site

Do you have a link?

[–]bcwalker 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This. Especially Day's book. Allies are allies, and we should help our allies to help themselves.

[–]Th3FashionP0lice 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Since the content that was removed was expressedly against Bandcamps TOS, the only worthwhile action would be to skim through some of their better selling content for similar breaks of the TOS and complain about selective enforcement.

I'm not writing a letter to defend this shit. Calling this music art intended to spur debate is about as valid as calling the Spice Girls a reflective introspection on feminism.

I'll defend your right to create shitty art, but no way am I going to care if a distributor thinks it's too much of a headache to market. They're no Body Count, unless you can give me a fresh spin on why this has an artistic message beyond "nigger, rape, nigger, muslims, rape" I see no reason to fight for it.

[–]Andoracer 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

“Armenian Genocide Is Amazing”, “Child Molesting Rapist Murderer”, “I Only Like Jews When They Kill Muslims”

lmao these song titles are pure gold

[–]MySidesTheyAreGone 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

That stuff reminds me of "Speak English or die!" by Stormtroopers of Death. Good times.

[–]thecultofjim[S] 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's what I thought when I read the DMU article- still love their take on an anti-suicide song

[–]FuckAllRedditCEOs 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I didn't think Bandcamp would ever do that. Well, I guess I have to stop buying from them…

edit: Sent mail, am a repeat customer of them, actually it's the only digital store I've ever used.

[–]vaoe 4ポイント5ポイント  (9子コメント)

Any alternatives to bandcamp?

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate 5ポイント6ポイント  (8子コメント)

There are literally thousands of sites that will let you sell music, the trick is traffic. Bandcamp is a known site for discovering new alternative music, so people go and browse there. The only comparable site for new alternative music is SoundCloud. It doesn't have sales functionality as standard, but it has this little-known add-on:

https://blog.soundcloud.com/2011/05/17/soundrain/

[–]Fenrir007 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

What about the google music service? Seems to be getting more popular as of late.

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

Bigger services like iTunes and Google Play Music are much stricter about admission and content policy.

[–]Fenrir007 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Ah, I see. Considering the crap the Play Store gets, I thought their music service was similarly lax.

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Try putting a pro-Hitler game on there and see how long it lasts.

The crap you see is crap in terms of quality, not taste.

[–]Fenrir007 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Not sure if this would count, but there is this: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.AnkaarProductions.FuhrerinLA

[–]frankenmine/r/WerthamInAction - #ComicGate 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

That is certainly unexpected. Still in better taste than this guy's music, but not something I expected to see on there.

[–]Fenrir007 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Google is terrible with content curation. But I get your point.

[–]Javaed 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's also not that hard to set up your own site to sell your materials. Initial costs as well as bandwith costs are pretty manageable now.

The problem is, while there are many sites that offer streaming & selling services, the most heavily browsed options often have features that can recommend your work to people who have never heard of you before. With a smaller service or your own website you're generally only going to reach existing fans.

[–]ObliteratedRectum 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

They certainly have the right to curate the content on their service however they wish and I can see how a company wouldn't want to be associated with facilitating the sales of products with titles which on the surface appear vile in their racism, homophobia, xenophobia and so on.

I'll support to the death someone's right to speak freely, no matter what sort of hideous vile shit they want to spew. That doesn't mean I'll let them do it from my doorstep or post banners in my front yard espousing it.

That said, it would seem someone would have to take a deeper-dive than just visiting your store page and reading the titles (or maybe even listening to the songs?) to grasp that you're not actually just some fucked up StormFront white power metal or punk band spewing hatred. A bit like assuming that Abbie Hoffman's Steal This Book had no meaningful social commentary or other value, simply because of the title taken for face value.

There is a lot of art out there that traffics in offending and shocking and where that content is not something actually believed by the person manipulating it to express themselves through their art. Unfortunately, we have a political and social climate where it is only acceptable to shock and offend those people.

For example, it's great to roll around naked on a stage and smear menstrual fluid all over yourself while pissing on the stage and stuffing shit-covered hotdogs in your vagina, because that offends and shocks the right people about the right things. But you better not do anything that is intended to shock and offend the shockers and offenders!

As a result, you end up with situations like this, where a storefront may actually support free expression and may even have taken the time to look into your content and realize you're not actually a bunch of skinheads shrieking about gassing a whole group of people... but are also savvy enough to say "other people won't take the time and we will be penalized in the court of public opinion and the press based solely on the titles of these songs alone, no matter their intention or context". As a business, you have to be very aware of that sort of thing and make the decision that is best for the success of your company.

I don't know the people behind Bandcamp. It may be that they're SJW central and all about pushing their own social agendas through their service. Or they could just be wise business persons who are aware of the social climate and the potential damage to their company that could be caused by the way a reactionary authoritarian society will react to them because of the titles of your songs on their service. In that case, it would be unfortunate that they don't have the spine to say "we don't judge the content and we don't condone it, but they have a right to express themselves" . . . but entirely understandable.

[–]shitpostingscumbagGawker recruiter 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Semi-on-topic question:

If an Armenian says "kill all Muslims", is that punching up?

If someone denies his right to say that, are they continuing a tradition of racism/sectarianism against Armenians? Are they silencing oppressed voices?

[–]KiltmanenatorInexperienced Irregular Folds 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Best of luck to you. I'm not a metal fan (I listen to a bit of Rammstein and Windir occasionally but that's about it), so I don't feel comfortable injecting myself into a debate/subculture that's not my own. Your concerns about artificial inflation are wise; it's far better to have "your people" do it than to solicit "brigading" (not that that's what you're doing).

[–]Aurondarklord 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm at least a casual metalhead, but even if I wasn't, it definitely sounds like you're getting a raw deal.

However, not every store wants to sell adult content. And while we support the rights of artists to create and distribute their work without censorship, in my experience it's the general opinion of most GGers, at least most KIA users, that stores also have a right to curate their content so long as they're fair and transparent about how they do so.

So if you want our support, it would help a lot if you could provide some examples of Bandcamp ignoring their own rules and being willing to stock music full of swearing, violent lyrics, etc etc as long as it was SJW-friendly? Some evidence that this is the result of political bias and not simply against their content policy would make a clear cut case for hypocrisy and censorship, and if that's the case I think most of us would be happy to help.

Rock on guys! \m/

[–]Armagetiton 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Some people have to draw the line somewhere. Seth Putnam insisted his work was all satire and just joking around while purposely trying to be offensive as possible as well. Putnam has been kicked off tours several times for the same reason (because his music was too offensive). It sounds like the guy in OP's post is just trying to follow Putnam by example.

Here's an example of Putnam's work (well, an extreme example, this is the most offensive song I know of that he did)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZYjpaf3VVI

I'll admit I actually like Putnam's work by the way, I find it funny in a kind of twisted way. I also don't blame people for wanting to have nothing to do with this kind of stuff and not have it at their events or on their tours.

Edit:

More Seth Putnam:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6MfmpN_joM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7-2aghYj8Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUKfbgp4p-4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cYPFgrJ3j4

I can assure you that if the guy in the OP has been removed from a metal event he is close to or just as offensive as this music and I want people to consider that before they jump into supporting this. Metal people aren't easy to offend.

[–]ExplosionSanta 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I get the feeling this band is inspired by the works of Anal Cunt.

[–]mnemosyne-0000#BotYourShield / https://i.imgur.com/6X3KtgD.jpg 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Archive links for this post:

I am Mnemosyne, goddess of memory. I remember so you don't have to.

[–]IMULTRAHARDCORE 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm a little confused. In what way are they being censored?

[–]thecultofjim[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

They were pulled from the site without notice or explanation.

[–]Sordak 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

There are sadly still some elements in GG saying that SJWs have nothing to do with it. I pity the deluded fools for thinking you can get rid of corruption if you only clip the weeds and dont dig out the root.

[–]Brutus_and_Balzaak 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Made me think of this band

[–]Fenrir007 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Side quest accepted. You better get those shiny new pants ready for when I come back.

[–]MrRexels 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

“I Only Like Gays When They Scream Like The Opposite Sex As I Rape Them”

Oh God why can't I stop laughting.

[–]ThachWeave 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sounds like it's worth a shot. For the most part Bandcamp is a really good company; getting them to see their error shouldn't be hard.

[–]RPN68 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This type of censorship issue is much closer to my direct area of interest, concern and knowledge.

Do you know why Bandcamp is doing this? Are they:

  • Just reacting when there are enough complaints about a specific track/artist

  • Only targeting more popular stuff (no idea of Viranesir's relative popularity, tbh)

  • Are they going after certain genres, like black/death metal?

From what I can see, a good amount of pretty edgy industrial music is still available on bandcamp. Combichrist, FH, etc. have lyrics that easily offend those without an ear for allegory. (They also have stuff that's just meant to be straight forward offensive for shock value).

Just my $0.02%, but I think #metalgate is a bit too narrow. This is really more about keeping the social-justice guise of censorship the fuck out of our music in general, be it metal, industrial, indie, outlaw country, rap, trap, idm, or whatever.

[–]haabilo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have songs called "Heil Hitler", "Armenian genocide is amazing", "Child Molesting Rapist Murderer", "I Only Like Jews When They Kill Muslims", "I Only Like Gays When They Scream Like The Opposite Sex As I Rape Them".

I'm offended.

[–]AntiRivet 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

\m/

[–]CaveImperator -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

1.) You explicitly declare you chose stuff to be as offensive as possible...and you're surprised or wounded that you succeeded? Or that your offense had consequences?

2.) you claim you don't want to artificially piggyback off GG...so why are you posting this here, precisely, where its only purpose can be to artificially piggyback off of GG?

[–]Asraised_Bymom 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Its satirizing offensive things, its not preaching the things it mocks. Its just humor, like telling racist and sexist jokes.

He's just making it clear that he is not asking to people to jump in out of a common enemy, only to people who care about the bands and the use of bandcamp to help if they care about the problem exposed.

[–]CaveImperator 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

like telling racist and sexist jokes

Which will also get you kicked off plenty of social & commercial platforms.

Action. Consequence. I'm not seeing where this "-gate" is.

[–]Nelbegek 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

There is no GG as an entity and it can't be piggybacked off. He informed individuals about a related problem and asked for interested parties.

[–]sirvidyagamesz -2ポイント-1ポイント  (8子コメント)

We don't understand the metal community. Most of us probably don't care for the lyrics. For the most part we have an anti censorship stance. I can't tell if they are being serious or not though. So if these people had their music removed from a store for political correctness then yeah that would be bad. They should start their own 8chan of metal if that is the case. Video games used to be underground when they came for us. I guess they came for you too.

[–]Why_no_mention_of_EA 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

We don't understand the metal community. Most of us probably don't care for the lyrics. For the most part we have an anti censorship stance.

This is collectivist shilling, in case anyone didn't know.

[–]sirvidyagamesz -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Replace we and us with I. That was only my opinion on the demographics of gamergate. I have sympathy towards them if they are being censored. They should be able to make a living and sell their wares. I just don't understand the metal culture at all.

[–]Why_no_mention_of_EA 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I didn't mean to imply you were doing it intentionally. The media subversion is so thoroughly ingrained in the culture people usually don't notice. I just thought it was a great example.

[–]kamon123 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Whose we and us? I'm a huge metalhead and gamer and the two tend to have a good overlap due to the outcast nature of the mediums.

[–]thecultofjim[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Most of those affiliated with the Facebook group. Yes, I'm a pompous asshole for speaking on others' behalf.

[–]WilliamUsherGBWilliam Usher 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

They should start their own 8chan of metal if that is the case

Or they could just make a MetalGate board on 8chan.

[–]FuckAllRedditCEOs 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

There is one, not very active though

[–]d60b 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Does /mu/ not like them?

[–]FoxyKit -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

KIA is not your personal army, etc.