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[–]tlh053Show my flair on this subreddit. It looks like: 55 points56 points57 points  (45 children)
Its her right to get an abortion and its his right for him to end the relationship over it.
I don't know why some people seem to think he's obligated to stay in the relationship regardless of what she does. How does that even make any sense? How long does he have to put his future on hold for her?
I know if my wife suddenly decided to get an abortion with almost no explanation after how long we've been purposely trying for a kid together...well I'm not sure what on earth I would do, but I know I would have a very hard time looking at her the same way as I did before.
And its not like he's doing this shit just to convince her to get knocked up again so he can hold her under his thumb. He legitimately doesn't love or respect her and regardless of why he feels that, he's right to end the relationship over it.
Then there's the whole matter of the housing....I mean, yeah she moved from a foreign country to be with him, but whats he supposed to do with that now? He doesn't want to live with her and has already stayed with friends to avoid being around her, so he's not even comfortable in his own home with her there anymore(especially with her making moves on him). How long does he have to support her life in this situation? Should he just be homeless instead? Should he rent a second place for himself or her? Can he even afford that?
I don't know the answer to any of that, but I think 1 week is a bit too short.
[–]Sunjammer0037 [score hidden]  (2 children)
I don't know why some people seem to think he's obligated to stay in the relationship regardless of what she does. How does that even make any sense? How long does he have to put his future on hold for her?
It's not about rights. Of course he has a right to throw her into the street in her war-torn country if he wants to. It's more his callous attitude about it. He doesn't seem even remotely sorry for what would happen to her. I don't think he ever loved her, you don't feel like that when you really love someone. And, really, do words like "compassion" even mean anything nowadays? He doesn't have to stay with her, he shouldn't stay with her, they're completely incompatible, but how about just lending a helping hand? Just some money to help her at the start or something like that? He's fucking rich, has all the power in this relationship while she's completely powerless, she abandoned everything for him, even her family, doesn't speak the language, she has nothing. All because she had a change of heart about pregnancy, and, judging from many of his comments, she didnt' even want that baby, was just too scared to admit it. He was the one who wanted the baby and projected his desire and joy on her. Yes, she should have stood her ground, but I can imagine it's scary to go against the wishes of somebody you're completely dependent on for your life. Maybe I'm too sentimental or weak-hearted or anything, but I can't imagine what person could just throw somebody on the street, in a fucking week, in a third-world country. She might very well die there. Why are people just thinking about it in such a cold and calculating way, "his rights, his obligations", etc, while not considering the human decency aspect of it?
[–]I_Am_NOT_The_Titan [score hidden]  (1 child)
It's not about rights. Of course he has a right to throw her into the street in her war-torn country if he wants to. It's more his callous attitude about it. He doesn't seem even remotely sorry for what would happen to her. I don't think he ever loved her, you don't feel like that when you really love someone.
That's debatable. If you were to have conceive a child with someone, then start planning your life with that child, putting your heart and soul into making the child's future wonderful, to find out a week later that there will be no child, because it's been dismantled. Sure, it might not be a kid yet, it's just an embryo, but to you, it would be more. It would be your legacy. And to have someone come in and destroy everything you love, that has to hurt. It's a completely rational move for him to do that, she -while not aborting a sentient being- murdered his child in his eyes.
DISCLAIMER: I have made sure to bold important abortion related sections to prevent people from attempting to start a pointless, irrelevant "abortion is good/evil" argument with me.
[–]Sunjammer0037 [score hidden]  (0 children)
I never said he was unreasonable to feel devastated. Of course he does, and, from what we see, his girlfriend didn't do anything to console him and make me feel better, so that one's on her.
But really, though, he shouldn't have become so obssessed with this pregnancy when it was only one month. I understand that it's hard nt to be overly excited at such occasion, but didn't he know that miscarriage is quite common in the first semester? It wasn't just first semester, it was only the first month. It's not even uncommon to find out you were mistaken about pregnancy in a couple of months, pregancy tests can sometimes be false. I can understand how he's furious and devastated that he's already spent so much effort and money on this unborn child and now he lost it, but he should have been more cautious about it. Just like she should have thought better about getting pregnant. Like I said, both of them are at fault here.
[–]FailedTech [score hidden]  (0 children)
It is all jacked up on all sides.
[–]pissbum-emeritus comment score below threshold-54 points-53 points-52 points  (40 children)
He can end the relationship to the extent they no longer associate with one another, but he still needs to support her until she completes school and finds a job. That or give her a big roll of money and a return ticket to her home country. Whichever she chooses.
Women get to decide if they carry a child to term. It sucks for the dad if he wants the child and the mother doesn't, but thems the breaks - she's the one carrying the child and assuming all of the health risks associated with the pregnancy.
I understand the OP is devastated by his girlfriend's decision to terminate her pregnancy. A person's character is measured by the way they deal with situations such as this. OP has failed miserably.
Will he redeem himself? Probably not if he continues to use /r/relationships as a personal and moral compass. Bummer.
[–]a_jill_sandwich[S] 34 points35 points36 points  (10 children)
A person's character is measured by the way they deal with situations such as this. OP has failed miserably.
Has he though? Other than giving her too short a timeframe to leave, he hasn't really done anything yet other than dump her, which was probably the right thing to do. Honestly I don't think he should have to provide continued financial support for her to stay in the country - especially given her low prospects of supporting herself - but he should at least give her time and the cash for a ticket home.
[–]pissbum-emeritus comment score below threshold-56 points-55 points-54 points  (9 children)
He's doing her a favor, in the long run. Now she can go find a real man.
[–]Licklt 26 points27 points28 points  (0 children)
How the hell does not being okay with her aborting a child that he'd already fallen in love with make him less of a man? She has the right to do that, and he has the right to be devastated and want to get her out of his life. How does that demean him? He's hurt, and it's a hurt that could very well be there for the rest of his life. He can do what he wants to try to heal.
[–]ZGG_1 24 points25 points26 points  (0 children)
Hopefully a real Nice Guy like you right?
[–]Fake_Unicron 14 points15 points16 points  (4 children)
Ok so you are just trolling then. Good one sir, you have earned many a tip o' the fedora today.
[–]pissbum-emeritus comment score below threshold-20 points-19 points-18 points  (3 children)
Nah, I'm just done arguing. I'm not going to change your minds, so why keep talking?
[–]randomsnark[ETHICS]? [score hidden]  (0 children)
Props for actually leaving after saying this instead of sticking around to reply to everything for another few hours, like most people who say that end up doing.
[–]Fake_Unicron 7 points8 points9 points  (0 children)
Well you must have been done before even began then.
[–]elifreeze [score hidden]  (0 children)
Well I was thoroughly enjoying watching you contradict yourself but if you're through I guess it's time to call it a night.
[–]a_jill_sandwich[S] 9 points10 points11 points  (1 child)
Or they could both be single and work on their communication skills on their own so that this shit doesn't happen in their next relationships.
[–]pissbum-emeritus comment score below threshold-11 points-10 points-9 points  (0 children)
They need to do that regardless.
[–]Half_The_Battle 46 points47 points48 points  (19 children)
but he still needs to support her until she completes school and finds a job. That or give her a big roll of money and a return ticket to her home country.
Honest question, but why does he need to do that? He was supporting her because they were in a relationship. They decided together to have a child. She decides to have an abortion and can't even explain why to OP. He doesn't want to be in a relationship with her anymore over it. I think he needed to give her a bit more time than 1 week, and I could even see him paying for a ticket home for her. But I don't see why he is obligated to shell out huge amounts of money for her. The whole situation sucks and there isn't actually a correct answer on how to deal with it. I just don't know how you can say he NEEDS to support her now.
I mean, it is /r/relationships, so this probably didn't happen at all.
[–]Sunjammer0037 [score hidden]  (2 children)
They decided together to have a child.
No they didn't. He thinks they decided together, but from this comments it's very clear that he was the one who decided, she was reluctant. She probably initially agreed because she was afraid that if she refused, he'd fuck her over. And she was right.
[–]Half_The_Battle [score hidden]  (0 children)
He thinks they decided together, but from this comments it's very clear that he was the one who decided, she was reluctant
Clear to you maybe. It wasn't to me. He says they decided together. We have his side of the story only. I'm choosing to believe it since otherwise there is no point in talking about any of this.
She probably initially agreed because she was afraid that if she refused, he'd fuck her over.
First of all, they are supposed to be in a relationship. You make it sound like she was being manipulated by him or is using him herself. She shouldn't have come over with him if she was that afraid of him pulling the rug out from under her at the littlest provocation.
And she was right.
Completely different situation. One is postponing having a child, the other is murdering a baby(from OP's perspective) after you decide to get pregnant, and then not really being able to explain to him why.
We really don't know how he would have reacted if they had waited to have a kid. You'd think it would be logical to wait for her to finish schooling before children. But if you are pro-life it is also logical to not want to be with someone who kills a child they agreed to have seemingly willy-nilly. I'm sorry, but you cannot say "she was right" without equating two vastly different scenarios, and it just makes you look foolish.
[–]a_jill_sandwich[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)
No they didn't. He thinks they decided together, but from this comments it's very clear that he was the one who decided, she was reluctant.
The mumbling you keep citing as being proof she was "reluctant" was apparently after she fell pregnant, not before. He says she raised no objections beforehand.
She probably initially agreed because she was afraid that if she refused, he'd fuck her over.
Way to project. There is literally no evidence of this anywhere in that thread.
And she was right.
Seems like he's been pretty fucked over too, but again way to project.
Edit: Not completely and blindly defending OP since he's not smelling of roses either, but I just don't really get all the reaching. Pretty clearly a situation in which two young people have made mistakes rather than one being a bigger shit that the other, if you ask me.
[–]pissbum-emeritus comment score below threshold-45 points-44 points-43 points  (15 children)
The whole situation sucks and there isn't actually a correct answer on how to deal with it.
There is a correct answer, which is for OP to support the ex-girlfriend until she finishes school.
OP brought her to his location on the premise he would support her until she finished school; they would get married at some point and have a family.
Because she is not his property, neither are her pregnancies. Subsequently, terminating her pregnancy did not breach their contract. He can choose to separate from her, but he still owes her the remainder of her education an the financial support required for her to complete it.
Tough shit if he doesn't like it, he's still on the hook.
[–]a_jill_sandwich[S] 41 points42 points43 points  (0 children)
So the choice to have an abortion is all hers, but he must have totally forced her to go to his country and start studying there and therefore is obligated to support her while she does so?
... K.
[–]whiskypriest139z 25 points26 points27 points  (1 child)
OP didn't trick her. When you offer something like that to a partner I think everyone understands that it's contigent on the relationship still existing. Now the relationship is over, is she obligated to start a family since she agreed to one in the context of that relationship? No. Is he obligated to help her with her finances that he agreed to provide in the context of that relationship? Again no.
[–]Yomammas_Lemma [score hidden]  (0 children)
"I can't believe you did that, it's over."
"You're still taking me to that bed and breakfast in Vermont, right? Dumping me doesn't get you out of your moral obligation."
[–]lord_james 34 points35 points36 points  (1 child)
Yeah. You have a planned pregnancy that your SO backs out of? Tough breaks.
A free ride to college taken away because you ruined your relationship? How dare you?
B.S. He has every right to cut her off. I would say the time frame is a little small. Everybody should have a month's notice on being evicted. But OP damn sure doesn't owe her anything more than that.
[–]Pdigitalis 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Was it a planned pregnancy? "We learned she was pregnant" doesn't sound planned, does he say they planned it elsewhere?
edit: nevermind, I missed a link. That's makes everything sadder and stranger.
[–]Fake_Unicron 16 points17 points18 points  (0 children)
What a load of shit. They weren't married, no kid together. Yet he still has to support her? What if she gets accepted in to a doctorate programme?
As others have pointed out, you seem to have a rather skewed view of the situation. He "brought" her here, but she's not his property? So did she come here or was she brought?
What contract are you talking about? And it's great that it's her baby, but apparently their education. I hope you're just trolling because that is some really fucked up thinking otherwise. Tough shit indeed.
[–]Half_The_Battle [score hidden]  (0 children)
There is a correct answer, which is for OP to support the ex-girlfriend until she finishes school.
Ask 10 different people, get 10 different answers. At least I acknowledge I might not be correct.
OP brought her to his location on the premise he would support her until she finished school; they would get married at some point and have a family.
Well, they decided to have a child together. So either you think she should also have been forced to keep the pregnancy, or you need to acknowledge that he is just as free to do what he wants with his money as she is with her body.
not breach their contract
As far as I was aware there was no 'contract'. He agreed to pay for her schooling because they were in a relationship. She agreed to have a child. That is just as much a 'contract' according to your logic.
but he still owes her the remainder of her education an the financial support required for her to complete it.
Unless he signed some contract that I didn't see(which would be a huge red flag and pretty much all anyone would be talking about right now) he doesn't owe her anything.
[–]pigeon768 [score hidden]  (0 children)
Because she is not his property, neither are her pregnancies.
Because she is not his property, he is not responsible for maintaining her. She is responsible for tending for her own wants and needs.
Subsequently, terminating her pregnancy did not breach their contract. He can choose to separate from her, but he still owes her the remainder of her education an the financial support required for her to complete it.
The "currency" she was "paying" with in the "contract" was a loving relationship based on mutual trust and appreciation. She violated his trust. No trust, no relationship, no financial support.
She has a right to cheat on him, she has a right to talk shit about him to his mother, she has a right to make fun of his small penis. He doesn't own her, after all. But that unquestionably violates their relationship, and therefore their contract. So does an abortion without having a discussion about it.
That's what a relationship is. Anyone can set whatever ridiculous rules on the relationship they want, from "you can't have abortions" to "you have to put the toilet set down" to "we're converting to Scientology". And on the flipside, anyone can walk out the door at any time, and all the benefits and burdens of putting up with your shit walks out the door with you.
She's a woman. She is a real person who makes real decisions with real autonomy and real agency. She isn't an infant that needs to be protected from herself and sheltered from the big bad world.
[–]Yomammas_Lemma 11 points12 points13 points  (2 children)
Well, they aren't actually married, and the relationship probably doesn't qualify for common law status. Even ignoring the pregnancy, she put herself in a terrible situation; she's in a country where she doesn't speak the language well enough to work, she's estranged from her family so she has no support network, and she has no real legal protections in case the relationship ends.
[–]pissbum-emeritus comment score below threshold-16 points-15 points-14 points  (1 child)
This is pretty much why the OP owes her, that along with common decency.
I understand why OP is upset, but it doesn't excuse his behavior. I used to see shitty behavior like this all the time when I was on the Job. The OP and people's responses in this sub bring back a lot of memories.
[–]Yomammas_Lemma 10 points11 points12 points  (0 children)
I mean, at this point OP is far less obligated to her than her parents - he's her ex-boyfriend, they're still her parents. She had agency in this situation, and there are simple steps she could have taken to protect herself. She didn't, so them's the breaks.
It'd be nice if OP bought her a ticket home, and set her up on the couch until she flied out. But being on the hook to pay her rent and tuition for three years requires far more than living together for a few months and vague plans of a wedding with no date set.
[–]Draculix 4 points5 points6 points  (3 children)
Legally on the hook or just strictly morally on the hook?
[–]a_jill_sandwich[S] 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)
Depends on her visa I guess. She's on a student one apparently but he may be down as her sponsor.
[–]pissbum-emeritus comment score below threshold-18 points-17 points-16 points  (1 child)
I don't know their location so I have no idea about his legal obligations. Morally, yes, absolutely.
[–]Ikkinn 10 points11 points12 points  (0 children)
He doesn't "owe" her anything.
[–]thefloyd 26 points27 points28 points  (7 children)
He can end the relationship to the extent they no longer associate with one another, but he still needs to support her until she completes school and finds a job. That or give her a big roll of money and a return ticket to her home country. Whichever she chooses.
vs.
Women get to decide if they carry a child to term. It sucks for the dad if he wants the child and the mother doesn't, but thems the breaks - she's the one carrying the child and assuming all of the health risks associated with the pregnancy.
I mean, pick one. Just like she's not on the hook to carry the baby to term, he's in no way obligated to put her up for years on end, or for that matter even any money. A couple more months on the couch or a plane ticket home would be the decent thing to do, sure, but just like her uterus is her own damn business, his bank account and the blood, sweat, and tears he presumably used to fill it are his own.
EDIT: All this is of course ignoring the fact that the story is 100% certified grade-A bullshit.
[–]pissbum-emeritus comment score below threshold-33 points-32 points-31 points  (6 children)
I don't have to pick one, they're both true as a piece.
You're treating the woman as is she's somehow indentured to OP, which she is not. He promised to support her until she completed school - they were engaged and planned to have a family together. The marriage and family part is over with, but he still owes her the rest because the reason he broke up with her is insufficient to simply wash his hands of her.
[–]Yomammas_Lemma 26 points27 points28 points  (4 children)
Jesus, she's not a freaking mail-order bride where he's still on the hook for another 12 payments of 1299£.
[–]Sunjammer0037 comment score below threshold[score hidden]  (3 children)
She essentially is. I don't see how any decent man would marry a woman from a third-world war-torn country and not even marry her or give her some sort of security net, her only "security" being his "love", which just magically disappeared the second she dared to do something that was against his wishes. He knew he had 100% power in the relationship and she had 0%. She's not a dog to be kicked in the street whenever she displeases you in some way. Hell, decent people don't even do that to dogs anymore, they put them in a shelter, not force them to die on the street. I wonder how it would have turned out if she did have a child. Would he throw her in the street while pregnant if she gained more weight than he expected her to? If she had a miscarriage instead of abortion, would he also have thrown her out if he thought she didn't grieve enough?
[–]IAmHercules [score hidden]  (2 children)
She had an abortion. Don't go claiming he would throw her into the street if she got fat.
He hasn't thrown her into the street.
He has broken up with the woman who aborted his child against his wishes.
If she is under no obligation to carry his child (she isn't) he is under no obligation to keep the woman who aborted his child.
[–]Sunjammer0037 [score hidden]  (1 child)
She had an abortion. Don't go claiming he would throw her into the street if she got fat.
How is it much different? Both would go against his wishes. Both would break the expectations he had for her (he expected her to continue being pregnant, and he likely expects her not to become fat). I've already seen plenty of posts on Reddit about people breaking up with their SOs because they got fat (both men and women), I wouldn't be surprised at all if OP did this too.
He has broken up with the woman who aborted his child against his wishes.
Which, in this case, would mean her being homeless on the street, either in this country where she doesn't even speak the language, or in her home country which is apparently at war (though probably not, I don't see how she'd have money for a ticket to fly back).
If she is under no obligation to carry his child (she isn't) he is under no obligation to keep the woman who aborted his child.
I never said anything about keeping her, I said offering some help vs callously throwing her out without a single penny.
There's legal obligation and then there's basic human decency. You can't see the whole world in therms of "What am I obliged to do and what am I not?", there's more to that.
[–]IAmHercules [score hidden]  (0 children)
I agree that there is much more to the world than what am I obliged to do legally. I just think claiming this guy owes this woman anymore than a moderate amount of time to organise her affairs is bullshit.
And seriously, yes people have dumped people for getting to fat, but dumping someone for having an abortion to a planned pregnancy doesn't provide any info as to whether this guy is one of those guys or not.
[–]Fake_Unicron 15 points16 points17 points  (0 children)
No, you're treating the guy as if he is indentured to her. I also like how you're the relationship police who can decide whether there is sufficient reason for a breakup. It's good that they're standardising the sufficiency requirements, there's quite a few guys in jail for thinking their ex-partners didn't have sufficient reason for breaking up with them so it should be much better now we have you to adjudicate.
[–]2fists1anus [score hidden]  (0 children)
He should give her more time to move out and get her shit in order. A plane ticket, sure. Hell, I just got out of a 6 year relationship and I let my ex take as long as she needed to move and stored her bigger furniture for her because I felt I owed her that much.
But he certainly does not need to pay for her remaining education and rent for that time, that's absolutely absurd. You're talking about contracts, and while I don't know about this country in the US contracts of this nature are void as it's basically a contract for sex.
But let's put your odd contract theory aside. You would seriously expect your ex boyfriend to bankroll your education because you moved? That is, ultimately, what you're talking about here. She's an adult, and she made an adult decision to relocate for what was essentially an Internet boyfriend. And she made an adult decision to have an abortion -which she was entitled to do-, but that also means he's entitled to sever emotional and financial ties with her.
Both people sound like assholes, honestly. But he isn't on the hook for tuition and rent for 3 years, that's patently ridiculous.
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