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True Nonduality and the Neo-Advaita (liveanddare.com)

shannondoahAgnostic が 投稿

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[–]Vignaraja 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Well articulated article, but I can't imagine it working well. People caught in that mind-flow seem to be quite 'stuck' there. It must be a karma, as it all is. The gridded intellect is a barrier, and one way to break it is via bhakti, but since you don't need bhakti from the viewpoint, that's tricky.

Doing a lot of sadhana would help but you don't need that either. Having a Guru point it out might help, but you don't need that either.

Hinduism might help but hey, that's just some label, and not one very often found in the neo crowd.

[–]Laalita 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Haha. I first misread your last two paragraphs, and was utterly confused. <sarcastic> tags would be helpful for people like me. hehe.

[–]Vignaraja 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

When I watch stuff like The Advaita Trap, or the advaita Cowboy, generally I think it's all a joke at first ... then often when I realize maybe they're being serious, I think ... 'uh-oh'.

Fortunately we get an infinite number of chances to get it right. The very first step on this Hindu sadhana thing is to realise that there are people ahead of you who are smarter than you. Until we have that realisation, well... maybe the car has run out of gas.

[–]shannondoahAgnostic[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You know what Krishna said about people who are yoga-bhrashta in the Gita IIRC.

One can hope.

[–]ramdaskm 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

IMHO any talk of neo Advaita with no reference to Karma and Causality is a big gap. I haven't read much anywhere about the neo-Advaitain stance on Karma.

[–]Vignaraja 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Me neither. It is either just ignored, or 'we're beyond karma'.

[–]shannondoahAgnostic[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Credit to /u/gio_dare .

[–]BlankNothingNoDoer 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Thank you very much for sharing this. I've often found it somewhat difficult to wade through the area where advaita becomes neo-advaita, because the proponents are often unaware of the nature of the deviations. And I've likely been in that camp myself sometimes (but, naturally, would have been mostly unaware).

The so-called "attachment to emptiness" is something I see a lot of, and have struggled with myself.

So I am going to sit down an read this in full and hopefully share it with a friend who studies non-duality as well. Thank you, thank you.

[–]shannondoahAgnostic[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Even though I personally am opposed to that school of thought. XD

[–]BlankNothingNoDoer 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's really OK, because the school of thought is not opposed to you.

And that sounds much more facetious than it is actually meant! <3

[–]iPengu 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

Awesome stuff, maybe this criticism will register better when coming from within the tradition itself.

[–]Laalita 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

I'm not sure that the author or many of whom he quotes will be seen as "part of the tradition". That doesn't make the criticism any less valuable. He articulates it well, and it is targeted at precisely the neo-advaita crowd.

People from inside the tradition have been venting about "neo-advaitins" for quite a while.

[–]iPengu 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

People from inside the tradition have been venting about "neo-advaitins" for quite a while.

Are you implying that it doesn't register anyway? Makes ISKCON criticism of it even more valid, as we consider this "mayavada" truly hopeless.

Nondual realization of the Absolute Truth is a legitimate spiritual path, btw, do not assume or accuse us of rejecting the core of the advaita as bogus, we rant about "mislead followers of Siva/Sankara", the same ones the author tries to put back on the righteous path here.

[–]Laalita 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Yup. No one recognizes neo-vedanta except neo-vedantins.

Do you mean to say that iskcon does not consider "shankaracharya's philosophy and parampara" as mayavada?

[–]iPengu 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

No one recognizes neo-vedanta except neo-vedantins.

One can easily recognize the highlighted faults, though, they are not exclusive to self-declared neo-vedantists.

Do you mean to say that iskcon does not consider "shankaracharya's philosophy and parampara" as mayavada?

We do not object to the realization of the impersonal aspect of the Absolute Truth, we object to specifically denying that Lord's Name, forms, and pastimes are eternal and fully spiritual, to calling them illusory, maya, hence mayavada.

There's none of that in this particular article, the author simply doesn't go there and even warns about being condescending to devotion and devotees. I hope this will register one day among some in the local advaitin crowd.

[–]Laalita 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

There are huge potential pitfalls in any of the traditions / yogas. And the irony of it is that those who are caught up in it rarely see it.

Haha, what I was getting at is that you have a problem with Shankaracharya's philosophy. Period. It's hard to get away from that.

People need to do more sadhana, and stop worrying about the philosophy .... regardless of their school of affiliation.

[–]BlankNothingNoDoer 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

And the irony of it is that those who are caught up in it rarely see it.

Such is the nature of the beast (for all of us at some point).

[–]SwadhisthanaShaktaa 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

People need to do more sadhana, and stop worrying about the philosophy .... regardless of their school of affiliation.

YES. THIS. :)

[–]iPengu -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

the irony of it is that those who are caught up in it rarely see it.

Yes, the irony, coming from someone who just a few days ago told me this:

I call you ignorant (now), because that is the obvious conclusion supported by your writings.

It's just lost on you, isn't it? The irony is everywhere:

you have a problem with Shankaracharya's philosophy. Period. ... People need to do more sadhana, and stop worrying about the philosophy

So why don't YOU stop worrying what others think about philosophy that isn't even yours, as you say you are not an advaitin?

I think I saw somewhere in this sub you declaring that you can easily beat all dvaita schools of vaishnavism because they are so obviously wrong. Whatever school you are from, they don't teach humility there, do they?

[–]Laalita -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow. You are a raving lunatic.

Maybe you should go re-see who declared that they can easily beat all dvaita schools. It wasn't me.

Thank you, but I'm well aware of my own limitations, confident in what I know, and willing to learn and admit my mistakes.

You ... I have no words. I don't say things to mislead others, or to piss on another rival school, or to callously misunderstand and misrepresent them.

For everyone that wondered why the GV-s on this sub get a bad rap --- here you go.

Edit: At times like this, I enjoy composing verse. So here goes --

बुद्धो बुद्धो व्याह्रियते बोधो बुद्धः प्रबुद्ध्यते ।
न हि बुद्धा न वा बोधो भक्तिस्तेषां न विद्यते ॥

Some people go around screaming "Buddha, [pracChanna] Buddha". They think their intellect is enlightened. Not only have they not understood, there have no intellect. Furthermore, they have no bhakti either.

Those who know Sanskrit might enjoy the padalAlityam and obvious shlesha of 'buddha' in the second half.

[–]svayam--bhagavanIts all your Karma -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Read the article. Here are my thoughts:

6.Charge disproportionally for the satsangs or other products?

This does not prove anything. If I ever start a spiritual movement, it will be for the rich people only in the beginning.

8.Never mention, recommend, or read from traditional Advaita texts?

Even I say that people should not read texts, but spend time in meditation/yoga.

Overall the article seems to be a warning to new spiritual seekers about neo-advaita. It is fine. But I would have really liked if he gave sources for his claims. I think that he has mistaken hippies with neo-advaitins.

[–]iwasacatonce -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Intense yearning for Liberation (mumukshutva)

As you can see, the bar is set quite high, and most practitioners would not qualify. Those who did were highly mature, self-controlled, selfless, desire-less

Except mumukshutva, right? Haha, not trying to pick. I just think 99% of spiritual paths are really just illusions to bring us away from brahman, a tradition that requires desire of desirelessness doesn't hold much water.