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TRPers and rejection (self.TheBluePill)

totallynormalguy1302 が 投稿

Three weeks ago I submitted a text post about the origins of a redpiller, where I explained my story as an ex-member of The Red Pill and invited everyone else to share their thoughts about it in regards to the factors that could lead a man down that path.

A great discussion came of it, however the topic of rejection and the inability to properly deal with it (which, if you read my post and my comments, was the main reason why I joined The Red Pill in the first place) became more of a tangent subject rather than the main focus.

As someone who is actively trying to get over his Red-Pill ways I think rejection would be an interesting field of debate, since it seems to be one of the core reasons why this "ideology" seems to have so many adepts.

So please feel free to leave your thoughts.

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[–][deleted] 26ポイント27ポイント  (14子コメント)

If you want to see what a RedPiller getting rejected looks like, check out /r/creepyPMs... Or /r/okcupid, for that matter.

[–]IWasElectrocuted 13ポイント14ポイント  (12子コメント)

I occasionally see trp actually giving good advice on rejection. Their creepy buzzword for it is "outcome independence". As in don't get upset when a girl rejects you.

Though this is just one faucet and trp is not entirely consistent with the advice they give. The "outcome independence" doesn't really jive with their advice to persist through denials/rejection.

[–][deleted] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good point.

However, to say and to do are different things, like you said.

[–]totallynormalguy1302[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (8子コメント)

Another TRP advice that it's actually good and is related to "outcome independence" is the 50-50-25 advice by Aaron Clarey, one of the very few guys in TRP circles who, despite being full of shit at times, still has some common sense inside of him. It reeks a little of le stem but his advice is legitimately logic and it goes like this: There are 50/50 chances that when you ask a girl on a date she'll either agree or disagree to go out with you. If she agrees, then there are once again 50/50 chances that she'll either go to the date or not. In other words, there's only a 25% probablity of having a date with a girl when you ask her out, therefore the odds are against you and there's no reason for you to be upset for being rejected, let alone take rejection as a personal matter.

[–]SamuelEnderby 23ポイント24ポイント  (6子コメント)

Just because the possible answers are Yes or No doesn't mean the chance for either is 50%. Unless you're trying to date kitchen appliances.

[–]totallynormalguy1302[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

Like I said, that advice does sound like something a le stemlord would say (and if you know Aaron Clarey, you'll know he is one), but the main principle behind 50-50-25 still applies: It's a good thing to lower your expectations about dating if you want to avoid unnecessary and toxic attachments that, mixed with insecurity and entitlement, might eventually turn you into a misogynist bigot like the ones mocked in this subreddit.

[–]SamuelEnderby 17ポイント18ポイント  (3子コメント)

Might as well base this on something true though.

There are a lot of reasons someone might not want to date you! Maybe they're:

  • married / with someone else
  • busy with work / college
  • not interested in dating at all

Maybe they don't like guys / beards / your Philly accent / whatever you express with your clothing / your dedication to your hobby or your lack of dedication to a hobby / maybe you remind them of someone.... Attraction isn't (just) a sliding scale where you're either good enough or not good enough. There are a lot of variables and for some people you're just not going to do it!

And most importantly:

Maybe you wouldn't even like them! You won't know before you went out.

No need to invent a numbers game based on nothing but insane troll logic.

[–]DJWalnutThe Jizzprince has Raging Buttscurvy 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

insane troll logic

there goes my productivity today

[–]xkcd_transcriber 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Image

Link

Title: Tab Explosion

Title-text: Cracked.com is another inexplicable browser narcotic. They could write a list of '17 worst haircuts in the Ottoman Empire' and I'd read through to the end, then click on all the links at the end.

Comic Explanation

Stats: This comic has been referenced 150 times, representing 0.2445% of referenced xkcds.

xkcd.com | xkcd sub | Problems/Bugs? | Statistics | Stop Replying | Delete

[–]totallynormalguy1302[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fair enough. I'll take your perspective into account.

[–]LUClENWill express cynicism for money 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The principle of indifference states that when one cannot know the probability of the outcomes each event can be given probability 1/n.

1/2 makes perfect sense then.

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]winstonsmithluvsbbciswhitemaelstrom's sugar daddy 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That's not redpill advice. That's common fucking sense.

    [–]totallynormalguy1302[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Oh I did, trust me. I cringed so much my face imploded.

    [–]squirrels33 13ポイント14ポイント  (4子コメント)

    I'm a guy who has been diagnosed in the past with Borderline Personality Disorder (which features a pathological fear of rejection/abandonment), and I can testify firsthand that society does not provide enough support and treatment options for men who struggle with these issues. As a result, many men who suffer from mental illness end up in trouble with the law, or committing suicide, or joining cult groups of similarly neglected individuals like TRP.

    Where TRP goes very very wrong is in blaming women for their problems. I feel bad for these guys, I really do, because I recognize so many unhealthy thought patterns that I myself used to have. And I understand as well that many of them are just looking for a place where they can find nonjudgmental help and support in a society where free access to that sort of thing is rare. Unfortunately, when you're in the grip of mental illness, it's difficult to see that the solution is therapy and mindfulness, not misogyny.

    [–]curiiouscatalphalpha 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    That's such a great point. I'll be honest, when I read you were a man with BPD I was kind of shocked, and I had to check myself as to why. And I'm pretty involved in the mental health community. I'm so glad you got help and I hope that more men feel comfortable coming forward.

    [–]squirrels33 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'll be honest, when I read you were a man with BPD I was kind of shocked, and I had to check myself as to why.

    I don't know if it makes a huge difference, but I'm a transgender man. Still, though, I was presenting as male and it took them wayyy too long to eventually settle upon that diagnosis, despite the fact that I was basically the classic movie stalker on my college campus. I was misdiagnosed with autism first, then OCD, then a bunch of other stuff before they finally concluded it was BPD, which seemed to be right on the money. And if nothing else, knowing what was behind my behavior helped me to understand and be able to correct it. I consider myself to be one of the lucky ones.

    [–]winstonsmithluvsbbciswhitemaelstrom's sugar daddy 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    society does not provide enough support and treatment options for men who struggle with these issues

    This is absolutely true, and one of the only legitimate "men's rights" issues. But what does TRP say about it?

    BPD is just for women and just man up and hit the gym bruh!

    Textbook Toxic Masculinity. These guys are already bitter and entitled, and now they're making it worse by bottling thus shit up and focusing on useless goals, because emotions and mental stability is apparently just for women.

    [–]P_Grammicus 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I think it's probably the most vital factor, though I will clarify that I include actual as well as perceived rejection when I say that. I have a slight acquaintance who, if he's not posting, could easily be a regular on TRP. He's a very insecure person, who tends to express that insecurity through aggressive sorts of behaviour (picture a drunk on power mall cop).

    He was married to a woman who wasn't a bad person, and neither was he, but it didn't work out, and he's exceptionally bitter about having to split the marital assists equally. It meant he lost more stuff than he wanted to, because he has an exceptionally expensive hobby and he had to give his ex more cash than he kept in order to keep those assets intact. So, to the outside world he lost his house, his decent car, most of the furniture, etc, and the fact he's kept his hobby stuff intact isn't obvious to most people, so his sad story looks genuine on the surface. He doesn't consider these expensive possessions marital assets, even though they were all accumulated during the marriage, but they shouldn't count, because she didn't use them.

    Anyway, at this point, he feels he's been divorce raped, in spite of an equal split (and reasonably equitable incomes), and his friends and colleagues commiserate. He's not particularly attractive physically or personally, but he loves to talk - add that deep insecurity to the mix, and he's a perfect candidate for TRP.

    And like people recruited by racist groups, or cults, TRP ideology tells him that it's not his fault, that he's actually superior, but oppressed, and everyone's jealous of him. It's hard to blame people for being upended when they end up in the middle of that perfect storm.

    Edit: wirds

    [–]another_sunnydaynow with built-in antislut defense 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    people recruited by racist groups, or cults, TRP ideology tells him that it's not his fault

    This is a really good point. Also, I think that the kind of dudes who are successfully ''recruited'' by TRP probably have certain personality traits in common, either a ton of entitlement ("how dare she reject me!") or insecurity (sense of self based on who they are associated with, so more likely to be devastated by a break up and to latch on to something like TRP as an alternative).

    [–]nihilistsocialist 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I think rejection plays a major part, definitely. Though, as rejection is faced by just about everybody, and more often than not for most (at least when it comes to dating), it can't alone be the explanation. A person's perceptions of rejection play a major role.

    First, one factor influencing the way RedPillers see rejection is the constant misogynistic ideology our society batters people with. You see movies where the hero gets the girl in the end as a sort of trophy for being a hero. You hear about how a girl is a slut/prude for doing or not doing anything at all. Then, particularly in high school, you see bullying and insults, as well as brags, take on a distinctly toxic and misogynistic tone. "You'll never get laid," etc. At some point, the potential RedPiller ends up investing too much of their self-worth in their ability to get laid or have a relationship when desired; while at the same time being led to believe that as they are the heroes of their own stories, they should get the girl in the end, because that's how it works in the movies, right?

    As a result, every rejection creates a massive amount of stress. Future RedPillers, never charismatic and often outright awkward, may not know the steps of the dating game. Even "winning" by getting into a relationship or a marriage doesn't inoculate one against a toxic insecurity, once that insecurity has taken root- the compromises and negotiations of a serious relationship may come off as a rejection or lack of control. The future RedPiller is in a crisis where they perceive themselves as being walked all over, where they become painfully aware of their ineffectiveness.

    This is where The Red Pill comes in. It offers solutions, and the kind of person who buys into them might not, at the time, be able to fully recognize all the obvious problems with it. The explanation given, however, is most important- it doesn't require the RedPiller to have any self-awareness. His dating and relationship failures are about a feminist conspiracy and women being hypergamous teenagers. Self-improvement, instead of being the difficult, life-long process it actually is, becomes a few trips to the gym and learning how to be a sociopath. Existing cultural narratives already prime one to see women in a negative light, while specific insecurities create the desire for the kinds of solutions TRP offers.

    At least, that's my theory.

    [–]totallynormalguy1302[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This is where The Red Pill comes in. It offers solutions, and the kind of person who buys into them might not, at the time, be able to fully recognize all the obvious problems with it.

    So true. In a time when I was surrounded by confussion about everything I believed in, The Red Pill seemed to offer the definitive answers to all my problems. It took me almost a year to realize that not only misogyny and cynicism weren't the answers, but that I also couldn't treat life as a simple step-by-step guide to happiness.

    [–]theomegaconstant 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It's an excellent theory, and very well written. Great stuff.

    [–]FeminaziJournalistThousand Cock Glare 15ポイント16ポイント  (2子コメント)

    My current boyfriend is an ex-TeRPer. He found TRP after a shitty breakup. It helped him become more confident and want to work on himself. Unfortunately, it also made him think some really shitty things about women. He and I had a lot of calm discussions about his views on gender (back when we were just friends) and he has abandoned all RP thoughts on women.

    But back to the main point. When he started to seem more confident, to figure out what he wanted to do and then ask people to join him, a lot more people started wanting to hang out with him. When he talked to people and tried to keep up conversations, people wanted to spend time with him.

    And notice I say people and not just women. People like confident and interesting people. And yes, he has had better success with women since becoming confident. He dated one girl when he was RP, but he was totally uninterested in her, and broke it off quickly. When he started asking me to hang out, not long after he found RP, I enjoyed talking to him, but he gave off this judgmental vibe, that he was always analyzing everything that happened or was said. So I never felt comfortable with him and while he was a good friend, I could never get closer to him because of that vibe. No matter how much TeRPs think otherwise, their toxic thinking shows in their interactions. But he realized TRP ideas are crap, not at all based in reality, and that vibe went away. We started hanging out more, and ended up falling in love.

    I hope that answers your question. If you have any others, I'm perfectly willing to answer.

    [–]totallynormalguy1302[S] 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Very good point. I've dated several women during my red-pill phase, and even when the girls seemed receptive to me I couldn't really enjoy the time I was having with them, hanging out with girls was more of a chore than an actual fun time and that was because I kept over-analyzing every single thing they did when I was around them.

    [–]theomegaconstant 4ポイント5ポイント  (5子コメント)

    As someone who was in that place once, would you say that men join TRP almost as an act of bizarro vengeance?

    [–]totallynormalguy1302[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I wouldn't say all of them (some men join TRP just to rationalize their asinine theories about women and social interaction, not really out of vengeance), but there's a great portion of men who join TRP as a form of vendetta against women, a direct result of miserable experiences with them.

    [–]watchout5 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The joke is certainly on them, people being manipulative lying assholes just for fun isn't gender specific.

    [–]curiiouscatalphalpha 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Did anyone say MGTOW?

    [–]throwawaye3290374 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Ugh. I just looked up that group. For a group that wants to encourage self-defined masculinity, they never really talk about it. Most of the posts are about women! And they aren't talking about how gender roles and how women influence society's expectation of me. That would be reasonable. It's "let's make fun of this fat woman model because she's proud to show off her body" or "the only thing a woman can offer you is an untouched vagina" or "you can't expect women to understand logic or biology." Like, shit, I understand how there are some self-identifying feminist who happen to shit on men. I understand how that can make a person upset. But just help us tell those people why they're wrong. Don't become a point they can now reference!

    [–]curiiouscatalphalpha 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It is truly an infuriating place. I'm sorry I was the one who introduced you to it.

    [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–][deleted] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      And some of us girls blame ourselves for making the guy feel bad when we say no, too, because we aren't supposed to make people feel bad.

      [–]winstonsmithluvsbbciswhitemaelstrom's sugar daddy 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

      There's really no debate. Rejection happens. You just have to deal with it. Like, that's literally it. Example: I had an argument with a terper yesterday who just COULD NOT get around it, which shouldn't have even been that long to begin with, becase it's really not that hard to understand.

      Rejection happens. You can't force someone to like you. The argument begins and ends there. If you need evidence that terpers are manbabies who can't handle not getting their way, well, that's all you need.

      [–]totallynormalguy1302[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I wish it could be that easy for me. I really wish I could simply say "just deal with it" and deal with it.

      But after still feeling miserable over a desperate unreciprocated crush that I haven't contacted in 19 months, even when I've dated several girls and managed to face rejection from several other girls without any problem, I think something more than "just deal with it" is what I need.

      And that's why I started this discussion.

      [–]winstonsmithluvsbbciswhitemaelstrom's sugar daddy 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Sorry, I don't know what you expect. That's the problem with terpers; they cannot handle rejection. They believe they're entitled to any woman they want and if she doesn't return it, it's some great injustice against men.

      There's nothing you can do about it. It's hard to deal with rejection, but there's just nothing you can do about it. You have to do what everyone else does and deal with it because there's no way to force someone to return your feelings. There's no books, no PUA tricks, no biotruth to it. You just get over it.

      So instead of trying to find someone else to blame or find some way that will make someone want to fuck you, you just deal with it.

      [–]totallynormalguy1302[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Thanks for your reply, I'll reflect upon it.

      [–]bunnylumpschief denier-of-sex 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

      OP you bring up good points. The fear of rejection has a really profound effect on introverts and less-than-confident people in a lot of ways that go beyond dating. I am the type of person who internalizes negative emotions and would prefer to compete with myself than with other people. I have a habit of fixating on what I want and putting all of my eggs in one basket, so if that very specific plan of mine doesn't work out it is difficult not to feel rejected and worthless. In the past I have done this with friends, jobs, schools, you name it. It really sucked to accept this about myself, but the realization has had a positive effect on my life. My "solution" to this pattern of behavior has been to diversify my interests and to remind myself that very few plans work out the way you plan and that's ok. I recognize the signs now. These are issues that I have very limited control over and it's unfair and counterproductive to blame myself when they don't work out.

      If I had been born male and if dating and women were the subject of my fixation, though, I could have easily become a terper. The fact that it claims to offer a solution where the reader can take control and prevent these feelings of rejection is enough to mask how outlandish the claims are. It's emotional armor for the obsessive and vulnerable. The problem, as you've pointed out, is that it encourages rage, hatred, and a false sense of agency. Rather than "that girl didn't want to go out with you but it's not your fault, she's a human being and there are many reasons why she might not be feeling it" TRP says "women are mechanical, and if you act like we tell you you will be able to manipulate her into bed." It's toxic and leads to an inevitable crash for the vast majority of users because it fails to address the root problem of hypersensitivity to rejection and obsessive thoughts about things in your life that you do not control. It just encourages guys to project false machismo and confidence which, of course, can have hilarious results for us over here.

      Anyway, good on you OP it sounds like you've come full circle.

      [–]totallynormalguy1302[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      It's emotional armor for the obsessive and vulnerable.

      If someone ever wanted me to summarize The Red Pill in one sentence, this would be my choice of words. Nice piece, I really appreciate your view on this subject.

      Anyway, good on you OP it sounds like you've come full circle.

      I wouldn't really say so. I still have a long way to go, but I am trying to bring out the best that I have in me.

      [–]gstvtrp 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I think you guys are somewhat close with this, but are missing a lot still.