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[–][deleted] 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

I always thought it was about "being like water" and "going with the flow" but after some pointers from the nice people at /r/badeasternphilosophy it turns out i was totally wrong...

it is an old religion from china http://www.daoistcenter.org/Daoism_Information.pdf http://www.daoistcenter.org/Daoism_Misconceptions.pdf

in the context of this subreddit it is seen as being more about reading the tao te ching/chuang tzu and trying to "go with the flow" etc. which is definitely not a bad thing or without value, but calling it "taoism" might be offensive to actual taoists (practitioners of the taoist religion)

Here is an interesting article about the difference between what we westerners see as taoism and what the actual taoist religion is https://faculty.franklin.uga.edu/kirkland/sites/faculty.franklin.uga.edu.kirkland/files/TENN97.pdf

Fwiw I think just reading the chuang tzu and trying to chill out is totally fine and i don't have any interest in alchemy or monasticism but after reading that article i am trying to let go of the idea that what i am doing has anything to do with the taoist faith whatsoever. While it kind of sucks to realise that i was wrong and things weren't as i thought they were, if i really believe what i read in the chuang tzu... it's no big deal really

So in conclusion, i'm not sure i personally embrace taoist teaching at all

[–]bashomatsuo 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Ignore Kirkland. I've read his book and he is exceedingly venomous about anything that doesn't fit into his view, while at the same time making that charge at others.

I dare say he has some part of the truth in his accusations; however, and vitally, he doesn't have a clue about how religions get born or move from country to country.

Yes, what I call Western Daoism is different from that faith in China in form of practice. I went to China and took a long hard look. Yes, Western Daoism is a form of spirituality based on only a few transmitted ideas; but, and this is vital: do you say Zen is not Buddhism? Exactly the same happened there. How about Pure Land? How about the Catholics? The many forms of Islam? How about the Co Dai in Vietnam! He might complain that Western Daoism is influenced by the enlightenment, as if he's saying more than up is not down or 2+2=4; like he deserves a cookie - but, my God man: of course it bloody is!

This is how new religions get made.

Daoism in the West is a part of the Transvaluation of all values into something new. Something special and worthy of more than one intellectual's disdain.

[–]galaxyrocker 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ignore Kirkland. I've read his book and he is exceedingly venomous about anything that doesn't fit into his view, while at the same time making that charge at others.

While this is true, I still recommend reading Kirkland. Take it with a grain of salt, but he raises a lot of points.

This is how new religions get made.

And that's what I think Kirkland's point boils down to: it's a new religion. It's not Daoism, yet people keep parroting that it is. I feel Kirkland would be a lot more welcoming f it if they were to quit calling it Daoism and claim it's even somewhat similar to the forms practiced in China. Or recognize that what a lot of what people discuss can actually fit into Romanticism.

[–]bashomatsuo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Your quite right that he would, but that's just not how regions work. They all hang on something else. The ones that last rely heavily on myth. Daoism as studied in the west directly conforms to this mythic formation template. That's why it's so attractive. It's saying the same message as all the others.

It wouldn't be here if it wasn't called Daoism.

Any religion that hasn't taken onboard myth has died. This isn't the thread to go into depth about it: but, consider this: all the big faiths have the similarity that their prophet/son-of- God/founder didn't actually write their own words down. Jesus, nope. Mohammed, nope. Buddha, nope. Socrates, nope.

Laotzu, nope.

It's a viral meme of an idea, and what it says is this: there is a mountain with some sort of universal 'realisation' at the top. There are many paths up the faces of the cliffs; but, they all reach the same summit.

We need a name for it: New Daoism, Western Daoism, Zen Daoism (my preference given the mental similarities to Zen, plus the lack of much ritual; practice alone is the ritual like Soto, the use of impossible poetic phases; like Rinzai, the shared history between the two, etc etc. ). Whatever it's called, I find the idea of Daoism being a part of the Western revaluation that is ongoing (certainly, for example in my country national identity is being discussed) as a very very good thing.

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