上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 258

[–]ACTUALLY A SECRET FANGAY BUT WHATEVER USA USAFT7G-G 155ポイント156ポイント  (0子コメント)

1 minute showing DC shit

30 seconds "introducing" the team

wtf

[–]Jgoddota2-2 120ポイント121ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow this was actually really horrible.

[–]socrates111 228ポイント229ポイント  (6子コメント)

This is like the Donald Trump way of introducing a team to the community. Literally introducing a team by first presenting your own accomplishments and then listing them 5th in an entry on your "resume" (which btw is just a bunch of youtube collaborations).

edit: On a completely different note, it's cool that you're sponsoring a team. Just maybe be careful with the PR in the future.

[–]@dasTurboTurbo2x 132ポイント133ポイント  (1子コメント)

"Don't break an arm jerking yourself off, Morty."

[–]TheGrammarBolshevik 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is like the Donald Trump way of introducing a team to the community. Literally introducing a team by first presenting your own accomplishments and then listing them 5th in an entry on your "resume"

Wait, what? Whose accomplishments am I looking at here? I really don't understand what's going on in this video... it just looks like a bunch of random clips from DC broadcasts.

Edit: OIC, it's because SUNSfan runs the thing?

[–]TheFeedMachine 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think he plans to have more than just a Dota team with Digital Chaos, in which case the announcement of the organization makes sense. He should have made the Dota team announcement a separate video though.

[–]Corsair4 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I understand building a brand, but he could have just gone "Hey everyone, SunsFan here introducing the Digital Chaos Dota 2 Team" and then actually introduced the players. instead of devoting 60% of the video to DC things.

[–]helpfuldan[🍰] 126ポイント127ポイント  (4子コメント)

That was fucking retarded. Fine you want to jack yourself before you get to the point, but then you get to the players and have shitty tiny thumbnail images, poorly resized, with text written in fucking legal disclaimer, too small to read font.

You blew 95% of the effects on the retarded monitors montage and then just copy paste a shit tiny player card then end the video. Lol. I srsly thought I had the wrong video. Might be the stupidest thing I've ever seen in this sub.

[–]Secret are your TI5 Winners 3-2 vs Na'Vi!PhobozZz1 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

The size of player images really struck me too. But a new team needs sponsors. Dotacinema can bring both viewers and sponsors. That's why they are promoting Dotacinema as well. Players need salaries, otherwise the team wouldn't hold together for too long.

[–]BigD n0TailRasiah [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Still, they could have done that in a much better way, instead of forcing people to watch 1 minute of pure advertising, and 40 seconds of what you actual want from the video. It's like online news sites these day, that run a 1 min commercial before you can view the 20 second video.

[–]RedOrmTostesson 190ポイント191ポイント  (10子コメント)

I love Sunsfan, I do, but why on Earth does this take A FULL MINUTE to get to the point? This isn't "Introducing Team Digital Chaos," it's Sunsfan's resume.

And again, I say this as a huge fan, but I have to imagine that there is a real introduction video forthcoming.

[–]Ikuu 24ポイント25ポイント  (0子コメント)

Would have been better to go with Sunsfan talking to the camera or a voice over talking about the team and explaining it to the people who don't follow the competitive scene, as this is apparently who the video is aimed at.

Instead it comes across as focusing on everything Sunsfan has done, and oh he has a team now.

[–]le_f 7ポイント8ポイント  (5子コメント)

My guess is that he and his grill wanted a larger piece of the DOTACinema pie since they claim to be doing more work, but the other partner was having none of it, so Sajedene quit right after they formed these other two companies. Since the DotaCinema channel has an absurd number of subscribers and videos, SUNSFan stays behind so they'll still be getting their revenue from there, but they will probably stop producing content for that channel. To ensure that this is all above board, all public statements will indicate that these are all separate entities and that everything is business as usual.

[–]socrates111 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

interesting. so i bet the other owners of DotaCinema are pretty pissed off the SunsFAN is advertising his new team on the DotaCinema channell.

I also found this odd --- to post a video with his name on it in the DC channel. If it's sponsored by DC then say so...if not then post in your private youtube channell...or have someone post it for you.

[–]le_f 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think there's already some hostility between them since Sajedene publicly posted that she was "unappreciated" by the DotaCinema organization - which literally consists of her boyfriend and the other co-founder. I can't imagine that Sunsfan is on good terms with Neil after a comment like that is made public.

[–]Minomos 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wasn't Synd an official part of Dc for a while aswell?

[–]Delete your lies and DROP YOUR EUL'SDaralii 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's an employee, but as far as I know he's below Sunsfan and Neil on the totem pole.

[–]Secret are your TI5 Winners 3-2 vs Na'Vi!PhobozZz1 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

I honestly think he made this introduction video to use it as a presentation for sponsors for the team. Which is absolutely good if you are going to run a team. Players must have a salary.

[–]RedOrmTostesson 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm sure that's why he made this video, and that's a totally legit reason to make a video. I don't think he accomplishes that purpose though; the video opens with his own name, not that of the team or the sponsoring organization.

He really needs to cut the opening portion down by 75%. Even if it's meant to cater to sponsors, and sponsors will be interested in successful projects produced by the same person, it's too long and detracts from the task at hand.

[–]rawrifications 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

sponsors for the team should also be exposed to the players on the team...

[–]Hooked 'em!GokuSS 22ポイント23ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hey guys,it's SUNSfan with an introduction to SUNSfan

[–]Eblade dagon for lifesmsy 34ポイント35ポイント  (2子コメント)

Why is TC's signature hero Sven? He's played it 3 times in pro Dota.

[–]yaydot 32ポイント33ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am surprise that you were able to read it with thumbnail size profile description. lol Kudo to you m8

[–]Caboose1313 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Felt the same way with Aui's being techies. Yes it was banned in ti finals but that doesn't mean its one of his signature heroes. Chen would have been better.

[–]teerre 63ポイント64ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hmmm... I don't know

Introducing a team and 95% of the video is about a random guy (who I know it's the owner of the team, but imagine if Secret announcement was about that Turkish guy)

Maybe focus more on the team?

[–]tico01 61ポイント62ポイント  (2子コメント)

Wow this Sunsfans guy really is amazing. What a businessman, what a comedian, whata creative mind!!!'

[–]ceildric 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

A shoe-in for "Most Valuable Founder" award at the next Captain's Draft Tournament.

[–]zttt[🍰] 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

50sec intros is this 2007?

[–]SeaMenCaptain 46ポイント47ポイント  (0子コメント)

Introducing SUNSfan

[–]Captain_Dank 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

can NoobfromUA repost this video without the first 50 seconds Kappa

[–]ciaiei 55ポイント56ポイント  (0子コメント)

I like DC and I like SUNSfan, but this video is more "this is what SUNSfan has done" and less "here is our new cool Dota 2 team"

[–]g0kartmozart 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

So is DotaCinema being rebranded to Digital Chaos, plus they're adding a team? I'm so confused... If not, why does anyone give a shit about all the DotaCinema stuff that fills 70% of the time of the video?

[–]socrates111 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

it's more fucked up than you think. according to SunsFAN the new team is sponsored only by him and thus has nothing to do with Dota Cinema.

[–]DREAMING THE IMPOSSIBLE C9 DREAMwodadota 54ポイント55ポイント  (6子コメント)

Nice to see they're already dropping the PR ball on this team. Easily the doucheyest way i've ever seen a team introduced. What a shitty start for a group of players to have such an asshat be behind your brand representation.

[–]socrates111 22ポイント23ポイント  (4子コメント)

Nice to see they're already dropping the PR ball on this team. Easily the doucheyest way i've ever seen a team introduced. What a shitty start for a group of players to have such an asshat be behind your brand representation.

With all do respect to SunsFAN, i think he needs a bit of a walk up call. From what I've seen of him (the moon duck launch, the casting at DAC 2015) he prides himself in being lazy and not super try-hard. I think he needs to step up his game.

[–]Pixelit3 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's a reason he wasn't invited to TI.

[–]Secret are your TI5 Winners 3-2 vs Na'Vi!PhobozZz1 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Sorry to be that guy.

But it's wake* up call.

[–]SirBelvedere 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

Or maybe he actually wants you to walk up to him and call him?

[–]Secret are your TI5 Winners 3-2 vs Na'Vi!PhobozZz1 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

heyIjustmetyouandthisiscrazybuthere'smynumbersocallmemaybe, sort of deal?

[–]headstronk 30ポイント31ポイント  (9子コメント)

i really feel like the team name is super lame

[–]untouchable765 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sounds like a custom PC builder website.

[–]Zeeboon 13ポイント14ポイント  (2子コメント)

They tried to find something that would also have the initials, DC, like DotaCinema.
Probably couldn't find something that was good without being edgy.

[–]HAWmaro 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

digital caming !!!! nobody will notice a wrong letter.

[–]Sweet dreams...chagin 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think you're right.

[–]#save polar bear flairmakisodamnkawaii 16ポイント17ポイント  (3子コメント)

sounds like the name that i would come up with when i was still playing ragnarok online during the stone age

[–]untouchable765 22ポイント23ポイント  (10子コメント)

Ever since the NoobFromUA call out I feel like Sunsfan gets destroyed on reddit even more.

[–]GypsyMagic68 20ポイント21ポイント  (1子コメント)

Maybe because there is only one dick we can ride. And Noobs just goes in smoother.

[–]jrh_101 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

NoobfromUA should post the shortened version of the DC team video introduction.

[–]Secret too goodGodisme2 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

Sunsfan handled the situation poorly and refused to admit it. Rather than saying "yes, NUA was wrong but the way I went about things was also wrong", he said "I did everything right and the only reason people have a problem with it is because they dont like me". The ego on Sunsfan is simply insane.

[–]Eddiekn 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's like the fat kid that owns the ball, rofl

[–]dtee403 14ポイント15ポイント  (3子コメント)

I like how they have merch before they even played a single game. Buy your Digital Chaos shirt boys

[–]wesleywyndamprice 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Could be worse. Secret's jerseys were out and then the team disbanded like a week later.

[–]HAWmaro 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

i almost decided to get a kuro jersey but forgot about it .

[–]CAPLOCKS WARRIORSokjuice 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I dont feel it would've been bad anyways. 4 Straight LANs with some serious high level dota during their time except TI5. Its like, for me at least, having a DK.Mushi tee

[–]Secret too goodGodisme2 36ポイント37ポイント  (2子コメント)

Have people not realized Sunsfan is an egotistical jerk yet? That guy cares about nothing other than himself. I would expect nothing less from this video

[–]Someone once told me...Hjustice -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

/u/NoobfromUA , you thought we wouldn't notice you???

[–]this game is shitmuhpreciousmmr 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sunsfan gets a logo fly-by of his name at the start that covers the entire screen. The players which is what this video is about get a tiny card with their pic and an even tinier font that's hard to read.

Good work.

[–]redheadwes 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

This whole thing was difficult to understand. At first I thought SUNSfan was on the team, then I ceased trying to understand at all as it panned past a series of screens of things that had nothing to do with a team at all. I thought I was watching the wrong video.

[–]EmperorDrackos 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

This felt like the story of SUNSfan lol. I like the guy don't get me wrong. But definitely wasn't an introduction video in its own right.

[–]Louistje 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wtf the first minute of this video is completely irrelevant, this could have been a 40 second clip.

[–]StrawberryCheese 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't understand what this is

[–]WHY I DONT HAVE FLAIRPyraptor 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I learned more about sunsfan than the actual team lol

[–][削除されました]  (10子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]margaryna 45ポイント46ポイント  (5子コメント)

    S is for smart

    U is for unique

    N is for nice

    S is for sexy

    F is for funny

    A is for a

    N is for new team

    [–]aRevin 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Whose dick do I gotta suck to get that hippo flair

    [–]ceildric 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Sunsfan MVF... Most Valuable Founderkappa

    [–]matrix325 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    someone go and cut it in half pls

    [–]walao23 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    hey sunsfan ? where is the content? so you actually compiled your past work.paste the pictures of your players and that's it? LmFaO wHo cArEas Xd

    [–]gianmk 25ポイント26ポイント  (1子コメント)

    more like introducing Sunsfan nad his work. but nice to too a viet dude in the pro scene.

    [–]bctfcs 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    "Team Digital Chaos", yeah right. From now on, you're "Team Violet" for me.

    [–]ZEUS ULTIbravemin 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    If you introduced the team first THEN put your 50 seconds of... 'self-advertisement' it honestly would not have been that bad.

    [–]ACTUALLY A SECRET FANGAY BUT WHATEVER USA USAFT7G-G 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'm on mobile and I can't see the fucking Signature heroes LMFAO

    [–]#save polar bear flairmakisodamnkawaii 16ポイント17ポイント  (2子コメント)

    more like "introducing dota cinema"

    [–]FredAsta1re 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I just realised Digital Chaos team name was chosen because it's also DC

    [–]socrates111 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

    but according to SunsFAN this new team has nothing to do with the Dota Cinema ... it's his own thing. FailFish.

    [–]mortto85 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

    annoying to see this talentless hack get more and more publicity, I hope he never tries to cast anymore

    [–]CamrySwag 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I did not see "getting held hostage by Latino gang members" on the team resume, perhaps a typo?

    [–]danceOfTheFatKids 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Can someone just please list the team?

    [–]bdzz 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

    TC, Yawar, Bulba, Aui, Biryu

    [–]lookin' for a handbeezybvbblepop 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    TC, Yawar, Bulba, Aui, Biryu

    • Pandaego = Coach (nbd though)

    [–]Helted 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    SUNSfan,SUNSfan,SUNSfan,SUNSfan and SUNSfan.

    [–]gizmoff 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    We get it SUNSfan, u have done a lot of shit.

    [–]pretty_meta 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Can I get like a highlight reel of this video or something?

    [–]cspatrik 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    6.85 patch notes

    Team Digital Chaos renamed to SunsFan and the Rest for pressing ceremonial reasons.

    If it does't happen I'll eat not one, but two bananas.

    [–]socrates111 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    bananas

    are good for micro ppd says

    [–]socrates111 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Wait a sec...

    I just realized that the team is sponsored by PIA and 100Tb. I know that teams are "managed / employed " by a company and at the same time have additional sponsorships...but it's just really weird to talk about an individual "owning" a company (as SunSFAN did in his comments here) and then that company having additional sponsors. Isn't SunSFAN just a manager? If not, then how is he different from the other sponsors, so much so that he OWNS the entire team. It's just weird.

    [–]coolsnow7 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    This is extremely uncomplicated. J.P. Morgan Chase sponsors the New York Rangers. They pay money to the New Cork Rangers for the privilege to do so. But in fact they do not own the New York Rangers, not even a tiny part of the New York Rangers.

    What you seem to misunderstand is that the owner of a company/franchise/sports team has the power to do whatever they want with the team, most relevantly relating to the money that the team generates. By contrast, a typical manager derives his own decision-making capabilities from the authority vested in him bt the owner of the team. If the owner wants mortgage the team to pay himself a seven figure salary, he can do so. If the manager wants to make extremely basic decisions that the owner disagrees with, the manager cannot make them.

    I apologize if I'm being pedantic but frankly it's hard not to.

    [–]socrates111 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    ya i know the difference between a sponsor and an owner. my point was just isn't it weird for an owner to talk so openly about the fact that he owns a team. like I've never seen this before. it's like he's a member of the team which he most certainly isn't...he's just the ones getting the sponsors together and profiting. ya that takes work, and the money the owner makes is completely justified but him like being the leader of the team like this video suggests is odd.

    ur comment was super clear btw thx

    [–]v1c1ous0dst 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    lol at the beginning I though Sunsfan was going to be playing on the team xD I was so confused. But ya as a team introduction video it was quite bad. I do like Suns and DC (Dota Cinema) but that video was not good.

    [–]Sulinia 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This video remind me of the good old RuneScape and Call of Duty days where people lived off making intros for peoples montage videos. 50 second 3d animations with the name of the player/montage flying around and then Linkin Park starts playing.

    The guy who made the animations fucked up.

    [–]PandaBroNium 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'm pretty disappointed with this. I respect everything that SUNSFan has done for the Dota 2 community, but this really seems to indicate a high level of egomania. Any claim that his "target audience" would need to know his background to understand what Digital Chaos will be comes off as very demeaning. Essentially assering that his audience would not be able to understand a straightforward team introduction without presenting his name and backing

    [–]bludgeonerV 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Their website is a continuation of this cringe, Saja and SUNS have pretty much just as much prominence on their 'team' page as the players... it even lists their 'signature heros' as if anyone gives a shit.

    The ego is off the fucking charts.

    [–]peruvianlurker 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    fucking jews... first LD now sunsfan

    [–]Eddiekn 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    And I thought I couldn't dislike sunsfan even more

    [–]Eddiekn 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I hope sir action slacks doesn't stick with sunsfan too long, he thinks only about himself and treats slacks like he doesn't even matter.

    [–]Magmafat 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Is there anybody in the Dota scene more fucking full of himself than Sunsfan? Like seriously I imagine this guy having portraits of himself hanging around his house.

    [–]no downboats plz XDCrazywombat1 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    sunsfan proves again to be a dumb ignorant amerifat with no self awareness

    [–]lookin' for a handbeezybvbblepop 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    0:00-0:59 was an entire waste of my time. Do yourself and favor and just skip to 1:00 to see the team announcement.

    [–]Secretly also a Secret FanstraightaykayPKT 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The editing was also a bit over the top..

    [–]IFuckingBlow 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I hate the team branding and colors.....

    [–]never rooting for EG again >.<icp1994 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    did someone notice this video was in NUA YT channel and then got removed ?!

    [–]DeathandtaxesFYL 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    T E A M S U N S F A N

    [–]BESTTEAMUSAdefonline 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Why cant u just do it normally with "Hey guys this is sunsfan with an introduction to team DigitalChaos..." Bam, to the point and out.

    [–]_score_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    When it started I thought that it was going to be sunsfan doing a spotlight of digitalchaos in the style of the dc hero spotlights. Boy was I disappointed.

    [–]Emperor BurNIngMaxxhat 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Noob from UA did it better

    [–]iNteL-_- 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Needs more sunsfan branding

    [–]Secret #1SecretFangays 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    lmfao fucking sunsmeme does it again

    [–]DA DUSK :DDDDeadFreshman 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Holy shit that was terrible! I was watching on my phone and couldn't even read what was under the players' pictures!
    What a load of crap this was, hope the team performs better than their PR manager, which seems like a very easy task!

    [–]ddsama 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    stopped at minute1. Was this an introduction to Dota Cinema?

    [–]Zilcho_ 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This is literally a Troy McClure video

    [–]What fate Omoroca?karl_w_w 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The biggest problem here is obviously that those are not nationalities that were shown on the player cards, those were countries. This cannot be allowed to stand.

    [–]thedeacon16 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    aw cool, is this the new meme we've been waiting for?

    [–]Sinner and Saint bleed alikerafaelrafael 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    TC as in Trash Carry Kappa

    [–]ceildric 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Better watch out for that abyss of sufferingkeepo

    [–]shime-saba 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Just to play devil's advocate a tiny bit, I already knew this team's lineup from twitter etc, but I was not aware that it was owned by Sunsfan/associated with his channel. So from that perspective the video was useful.

    [–]socrates111 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    according to SunsFAN, that's precisely that perspective that is responsible for redditors interpreting this video incorrectly.

    [–]KarmaAngel 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Another shit NA team

    [–]fuckoffvalve 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This team has a lot of potential to be incredibly average

    [–]Rvsz -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

    With many western teams became arguably weaker and EG as always will be very selective about the tournaments they enter, I can see Digital Chaos doing very well over the next couple of months.

    [–]FieryXJoe 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah compared to all the teir 2 and teir 3 teams coming out of the shuffle I feel this roster has a good chance at top 3 in any tournament.

    [–]angrydif 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    great... just gonna be fun to see when they lose their first games and all you guys will cry.

    [–]SpicerJones 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This was cringe worthy. Jesus Christ.

    I have expected to see a mountain dew logo explode out of the screen, along with a giant bag of doritos dressed as centaur warrunner, shouting - "Get your dota edge now by purchasing our new 'dick flavored' chips. SUNSfan loves em, you will too - or you are a faggot!"

    [–]twelveee 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This SERIOUSLY deserves the prize for dumbest shit EVER made related to ANY Dota 2 competitive content. Good job, SUNSFan, another high point for your carrer. EleGiggle

    [–]zamaroth 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3FgYyZISb0

    sooooo, SUNSfan gonna hate nigma and cry about stealing his window-y effects i guess...