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Why Nicki called out Miley:"Black women shouldn’t have to be ‘nice’ to be heard." (thedailybeast.com)

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[–]faith_trustpixiedust 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yaaas!! And I lost it when she said "Trump, you had my vote but..." Like, seriously???

[–]leftblaneHaving fun isn't hard when you've got a library card! 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

That was a good article. Thanks for sharing.

[–]SpotLightGuy 22ポイント23ポイント  (59子コメント)

This support for Minaj baffles me tbh. This is a girl who spends the majority of her career perpetuating the worst sterotypes about black people and to my knowledge never spoke out against racism until it was in the context of HER getting an award nomination, something that is straight up meaningless vs what people are really out here railing against.

Now because she "calls out" another meaningless artist during an awards show we all are supposed to hold her up as some freedom fighter?

[–]AppleSpicer 38ポイント39ポイント  (9子コメント)

She's been vocal about misogynoir for awhile. This same issue with anaconda came up with her album image.

[–]SpotLightGuy 11ポイント12ポイント  (8子コメント)

"How many times can you be made to feel horrible for caring about your people before you say, 'Fuck it, it's not worth it, let me live my life because I'm rich, and why should I give a fuck?" - Nicki in Rolling Stone magazine.

So because some of her white fans don't appreciate when she sticks up for social issues she decides not to say anything at all UNTIL those racism issues affect her personally in the context of a bullshit Viacom award? And now from last night she's supposed to be some sort of black feminist hero? I really can't...

[–]lucky16duckie 19ポイント20ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well she's still just a person. I doubt she got into the music business to be an advocate. She probably just wants to make music and gets shit from all sides about everything.

I like that she called Miley out for her shit, even if it was just self defense and not defense about a larger issue.

[–]SpotLightGuy 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can appreciate your perspective. I just chuckle when artists co-opt our racial issues for self-serving capitalistic type stuff, similar to when Jay-Z compared record companies hating on Tidal to being a victim of police brutality.

[–]imyourfuturesfuture[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

Who said anything about black feminist hero? There is much more in this article than just the Nicki incident that needed to be said. But you know focus on that.

[–]SpotLightGuy 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm not expressing issues with the article, it's on point. I'm really just confused at how people don't see through Nicki's self serving agenda.

[–]raw-sienna 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think thats why people like her though. No one is confused about her self servingness. Some people just like to root for people. Its not a bad thing to want to see her succeed.

[–]SpotLightGuy 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

Too many people confuse critical analysis for rooting against someone. Especially since there are so few black entertainers in the pop limelight, I think we give them a pass because of their presence without actually taking note of what they represent. Anything other than "Yasss slay queen" or some shit is hating lol.

[–]raw-sienna 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Are you talking to me? Did I imply you were hating? Also I think you might be taking yourself and Nicki too seriously. People enjoy they're bubblegum shit, you're not somehow enlightened because you choose not engage youre just interested in other stuff and thats fine. lol 'critical analysis'.

[–]SpotLightGuy 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh you thought I was essentially subtweeting you with the reply? Nah. Not my style. If I thought you were calling me a hater I would've said that straight up. I was just explaining why I believe people get up tight when I express a perspective different than theirs.

[–]viversemrumo 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

This is true. I don't know why you're getting so much hostility in the responses. Nicki isn't pro-black, or even just pro-black women. She's just pro-Nicki Minaj.

[–]jasgasm 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

or even just pro-black women.

Ever since that business with calling other black women nappy headed hoes and the implications of that chimpanzees and bananas lyric awhile back, I cannot cape for her. Plus in that whole Insta drama where she called out and posted pics of users who were supposedly hating on her, and they all conveniently happened to be black women.

And besides all that, she just comes across as immature, petty, and ultimately self-serving, sometimes latching onto certain social issues just to gain some type of leverage for whichever position she's aiming for that day. I can't take her seriously. Everything else is whatever to me, and sometimes I wish I could fully stan her because when she's good, she's good, but I just can't get over all the ignorant bs she's put out there. Sorry.

Edit: lol I just realized I regurgitated exactly what you said in a really unnecessarily long way; sorry I had to vent a little.

[–]garnetsquarefro 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think she's pro-women and girls as a part of a brand that boosts her. And hey, if teenage girls are staying in school because she encourages them to do so at her concerts, who am I to hate on that because it also boosts her brand??

[–]krs--1Don't like it here? Go back to r/Europe! 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Black people are so desperate for heroes the way republicans welcome Trump that anyone would do. They are both the caricatures of what white people expect so they are successful.

[–]brrrrrrrrr 12ポイント13ポイント  (10子コメント)

I personally like to see Nicki win because I hate how policed I was about sexuality/modesty so I like to see Nicki succeed in her own way. Scoff if you want but I do see that as liberating. I'm not delusional about her impact, but I have no problems with her and therefore no reason not cheer for her success. Also people get on Nicki about her sexuality but you weren't checking for her before her body modifications. Good for her doing what she had to do to make her money and I honestly she's helped paved the way for less sexualized artists as people scramble to complement/contrast her. Let Nicki build her little empire.

[–]SpotLightGuy 4ポイント5ポイント  (9子コメント)

Good for her in making unnatural and potentially unhealthy modifications to her body in an effort to become a hyper-sexualized and comically fetishized version of herself so that she can make money which is also somehow supposed to pave the way for less sexualized artists to come behind her?

Ok.

[–]brrrrrrrrr 12ポイント13ポイント  (7子コメント)

See this is exactly why I like Nicki because motherfuckers like you always wanna act like she hasnt accomplished anything for herself and want to diminish that because of she does with her OWN body. How about good for her being the only woman ever featured on the Forbes Hip Hop Cash Kings list. Or for being the face of Roberto Cavalli's SS15 campaign. Or for her three perfume fragrances. Or her three studio albums, two platinum and one gold. You don't have to like her but don't disrespect her hustle. Good for her being her own fucking person and a self made millionaire.

[–]SpotLightGuy 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Ok.

So she's accomplished making money, being the face of one of the more racially insensitive fashion lines when it comes to black model selection and treatment, licensing her image to other companies that make perfume, recording and selling albums and making money again? And that's supposed to render anyone unable of making an observation regarding her brand and image?

Gotcha.

[–]raw-sienna 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

She didn't say don't make observations she said don't diminish her accomplishments, that's fair.

[–]SpotLightGuy -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

You of all people really shouldn't be acting like what I'm saying is controversial since 3 days ago you said

I feel like a lot of artists are pro themselves. Nicki for example only talks about racism when she is personally affected.

Damn near exactly what I originally said. So what's the issue?

[–]raw-sienna 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Okay? Thats true. That doesnt change anything from what I said. I don't think that makes her a bad person I'm just realistic about her as an artist and don't expect her to be something she's not. Nicki not a conscious rapper or out here trying tell people to live the life she's living so I'm not surprised at the vulgarity of her lyrics or her lack of shame for her sexuality. YOU are out here acting like she hasn't done anything because of the vulgarity of her lyrics and her lack of shame for her sexuality and I think thats unfair. The conversation of celebrity worship is one thing but I feel like youre being dismissive of the work she's put in because she decided to monetize herself where I don't see anything wrong with that. I don't like how easy it is to dismiss a woman because she's an openly sexual being. You didnt attack her because of her demeanor or her actions toward other other people you chose to demean based on decisions she made about her own body and I think thats fucked up and irrelevant to her value as a human being.

[–]SpotLightGuy 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Nicki not a conscious rapper or out here trying tell people to live the life she's living

I agree. So why did you take the time to single her out for being pro herself and essentially not caring about racial issues unless they effect her?

[–]raw-sienna 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I wasn't singling her out I was comparing her to Azealia Banks to show the difference between someone whos self serving and someone who is just speaking their mind. I think you maybe misread or assumed a tone that wasn't there in that comment? There was no judgment there. Also I don't assume just because shes not speaking out that she doesn't care cause I feel like sometimes the loudest people are doing the least work. I also see youre not really interested in the topic at hand you just must feel like arguing today cause we've gone off topic. I hope you have a nice day.

[–]krs--1Don't like it here? Go back to r/Europe! 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

But she's just reclaiming the patriarchy and racist standards by appealing to the male gaze on a commercial scale. /s

[–]wafflebread 14ポイント15ポイント  (26子コメント)

This is a girl who spends the majority of her career perpetuating the worst sterotypes about black people

?? Explain?

Also, she's a woman. She's 32 years old

Now because she "calls out" another meaningless artist during an awards show we all are supposed to hold her up as some freedom fighter?

Who said she is a freedom fighter? Why are you using hyperbole to prove a point about her? She pushed back after having to deal with racist Ehud girl nonsense.

[–]Honeychile6841 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

I think she has the right to be herself and not limit her expression because narrow minded folks will spew out stereo types. If people believe in stereo types they chose to believe them because it makes them feel some type of superiority.

What is absurd to me is that black people are being killed in the street (by the protect and serve folks) because they are black. And this hieffa is crying about a shitty video that she thinks deserves some white washed award??! The. Nerve. It's like homegirl is living in her own black Barbie dollhouse oblivious to what is going on right outside her goddamn door.

What kind of lies do people have to tell themselves that shit like this is ok? If it's weed I want some. Who is selling the kool-ade that I need to sip to wipe out the fuckery that is going on right now so that I don't see it?

[–]wafflebread 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

I agree that Nicki isn't vocal about all black issues that are more pressing. But I don't see what that has to do with her or this situation? It's not something super serious, but it is interesting and kind if cool she called out an ignorant white woman in her industry for acting silly. That's all.

If anything, Beyonce is a much bigger offender in trend of being silent on black issues, but I didn't know that's what this post is about.

[–]CocotapiokaAfrofuturistic 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Beyonce is an interesting one - I read an article about her being a popstar that is seen but not heard. However, I wouldn't say she remains silent on black issues (now, whether or not her involvement is considered sufficient is up for debate). There were reports that she and Jay-Z were quietly sending money to Baltimore protesters for bail (and have been criticized by the right-wing media about it but what else is new). They went to a Trayvon vigil. etc

That said, I always kind of side-eye at this argument that because an artist is insulted due a personal slight, they're being absurd because there are always more important things. You could say that about practically anything. Honestly, even if she was behaving selfishly, I'm glad her statements allowed this conversation to be had. She was shady as hell with the Taylor Swift twitter shit, but it opened the floodgates for people to really discuss white feminism. And hell, we could say "But what about the black people being killed in the streets" but you could 'clap back' with, "What about the prison pipeline that is disenfranchising Black people on a systemic level?" or "What about the fact that there are horrific human rights abuses being committed against Black people worldwide?" or "What about the fact that global warming could fuck us and future generations up?" There's always a grander scale, and you can prioritize more than one thing.

[–]wafflebread -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, Beyonce is a bit of an enigma to me because of her silence. Generally I try to reserve judgement of her based on that since I don't really know her. But she is probably the most well-known black woman in the world right now, so her silence is interesting to say the least.

Honestly, even if she was behaving selfishly, I'm glad her statements allowed this conversation to be had. She was shady as hell with the Taylor Swift twitter shit, but it opened the floodgates for people to really discuss white feminism.

I agree 100%.

[–]CocotapiokaAfrofuturistic 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

What is interesting about Beyonce is that you're right - in terms of music stars, she's just huge. She has one of the most infamous fanbases on the internet. Yet, unlike celebrities that are tweeting and snapchatting and shit - she barely shares anything about herself. Not just politically (although she's clearly an Obama supporter) but personally - everything she lets is out is super controlled. Even her pro black statements have been limited and fairly low-key, even if she's done them. She's certainly no Janelle Monae.

[–]SpotLightGuy 7ポイント8ポイント  (20子コメント)

Dope article that breaks it down here.

The gist - "Nicki’s brand capitalizes on racial stereotypes while reinforcing notions of Black female hypersexuality that are long established racist tropes."

[–]wafflebread -1ポイント0ポイント  (19子コメント)

I just read it. It was a pretty basic article, tbh. I could maybe agree if I felt Nicki did and said things to actually make herself fit in the status quo of black female sexuality, but she owns her own image and speaks out whenever she feels she is experiencing misogynoir against herself. I feel this article is knee-deep in advocating respectability politics.

[–]SpotLightGuy 3ポイント4ポイント  (18子コメント)

So because she's proud of the fact that she capitalizes on those stereotypes it's ok? Just...wow. It is what it is I guess...here's some lyrics from a track with Nicki and Big Sean..they're indefensible but that wont stop some of y'all lol.

I got my welfare check, smokin on that crack

Hell yeah, I'm unemployed, baby daddy-down my back

Now what you got for me Sean? I heard it's big and it's long

I take my teeth out, suck it good, that's where your dick belong

Yeeeaah, do it like that daddy

Pump pump bump bump it in my ass-matic

You a dummie, you is big bone

(Mom, I'm hungry) Shut your mouth, you little bastards go on!

All this ass is for you Seany, can I call you Seany?

Sl-Sl-Slap me in my face with it

Get a crack vile with that bass in it

If I got weed then I'm lacin it

Eat all this ass, quit tastin it

[–]wafflebread 11ポイント12ポイント  (17子コメント)

I am struggling to understand so help me out here. Why is her expressing her sexuality in and of itself a stereotype? And a stereotype according to whom, white folks?

I read the lyrics. It seems pretty exaggerated and kind if comical to me, like in a lot of her songs.

[–]SpotLightGuy 5ポイント6ポイント  (15子コメント)

You think I care what white folks think? LOL. And if you don't see all the stereotypes invoked in those lyrics and think it's funny then there aint much further we can go...just gotta agree to disagree.

[–]wafflebread 3ポイント4ポイント  (14子コメント)

I mean I don't understand being so focused on "not being a stereotype" other than to avoid white people from judging us. If she was acting the way she does to appeal to white people I would get critiquing her, but she doesn't do that.

[–]SpotLightGuy 3ポイント4ポイント  (13子コメント)

If she was acting the way she does to appeal to white people I would get critiquing her

I'm a fan of a lot of your comments here, I'm being totally sincere when I say you're smarter than that. If it's not for white people then who is it for? What was the whole Starships song fiasco about? We know the statistics of who buy the most albums, c'mon now...

And for the record I'm not critiquing as much as observing. Some folk just don't appreciate my observation.

[–]wafflebread 4ポイント5ポイント  (12子コメント)

I'm being totally sincere when I say you're smarter than that.

Hehe.

If it's not for white people then who is it for?

I don't know, for herself? For artistic fulfillment? To get paid? To have fun?

What I'm saying is that I've long ago lost interest in chiding black people who supposedly fulfill "stereotypes". Whatever fear black people have about this majorly comes from buying into respectability politics from white supremacy. When I say this, I don't mean there aren't black entertainers who act in ways detrimental toward black people--especially women.

Based on what I have seen from Nicki, I do not get the impression she is trying to fulfill racist white stereotypes about black women. She doesn't say anything to lend toward that. All of her work is pretty exaggerated, sexual, and fun--and most importantly, I think her execution of these things in her work are unique in a way that don't cater toward white supremacy.

The woman has made music video where she's as small as a doll and has giant anime eyes. In Anaconda she has a straight 10-15 seconds where she is just cackling like a crazy person in a pool in the jungle. In her interviews and video people constantly try to throw her into a box to categorize her as just a hypersexualized black woman doing the same old thing, but she simply doesn't fit the title. She is an excellent writer and entertainer, and I think to try and claim she is so simple as to just act like a "stereotype" to entertain white people is just inaccurate.

[–]brrrrrrrrr -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

No its cool, he also pickets actors, movie studios, and authors for their portrayals. Entertainment is reality guys. His parents raised him on TV and now he's mad Nicki didn't teach him the proper ways in life. Stay in school kids!! [like Nicki constantly tells her young fans]

[–]garnetsquarefro 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

I feel like she's a lot like Dolly Parton, when it comes to how she presents herself and how seriously she takes her craft.

Dolly bought some giant titties and told the world that she shaped her image based on the town trollop, because she thought she was the prettiest woman in her town.

BUT, she's also an amazing songwriter, a decent actress, and all-around legend in her field.

No one is expecting her to hold feminist values in her work.

She's just Dolly. A talented writer and successful brand-builder.

So, ask yourself, do you hold Dolly Parton to the same standards? Why or why not?

[–]SpotLightGuy 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

So, ask yourself, do you hold Dolly Parton to the same standards?

Lol no. Because I didn't draw that comparison, you did.

[–]garnetsquarefro 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yes, I am drawing the comparison and now asking why not?

They are both women who have augmented their bodies and haven't purposely done much politically for the groups they are a part of. Though they are inspirational for succeeding in their crafts.

Nicki, I would say, has done more, but only when it also benefits herself, i.e. her always encouraging young girls to own themselves and stay in school. It's a part of her brand.

Why the LOL? What's funny about that?

And why not draw a comparison?

I think it's a pretty viable one.

EDIT: If you think it's ridiculous to compare Nicki to Dolly, then that just makes all your respectability rants about Nicki just sound like baseless misogynoir to me. You're upholding a sense of respectability for Nicki that you think it's funny to do for a comparable white woman. The only logical conclusion is that it only bothers you because she is a black woman.

[–]SpotLightGuy 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I am drawing the comparison

Nicki, I would say, has done more

I think it's a pretty viable one.

See, you can't just simply make a distinction, force it on me and then ask me to speak to it. That's not how this works. I laughed at you thinking I have to theorize against a comparison I may or may not agree with.

[–]garnetsquarefro 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm not forcing you to do anything.

I asked a question. You laughed in response and dodged, are still dodging.

I am drawing the conclusion from your responses that the only reason you can't speak on it (you're not refusing, you literally can't find any reason to hold Nicki to a standard you find hilarious to put on a white woman) is because Nicki is a black woman and therefore beholden to different standards to you.

That is the very definition of misogynoir.

[–]SpotLightGuy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Welp! Ya got me. LOL.

This conversation is about Nicki Minaj.

Had it been about Katy Perry (a much more sensical and recent example) I would've expressed how I ain't a fan of her using black women as ornaments or appropriating black cultural elements (like tweeting about being in the trap) and then disappearing when there's real issues on the table. The same can be said for Miley and Taylor too. I'm also no fan of MALE rappers who perpetuate stereotypes like Rick Ross fake ass (personal experience) but again, that wasn't the topic at hand.

Now is that enough of me sharing my personal views for your name calling, jumping to conclusions with no proof having self? If so then how about you have a stadium full of seats and let the grown-ups speak?

[–]krs--1Don't like it here? Go back to r/Europe! -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't you know her art is above criticism, because it is a manifestation of her individuality that is neither influenced by societal tropes nor meant for public dissemination </sarcasm>

[–]blu3dice 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

Can we all stop gossiping and worshiping celebrities. She hasnt done a damn thing to garner any admiration or praise. This is a some weak high school type drama that is probably staged and more importantly beneath us all.

[–]garnetsquarefro 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

You can eat popcorn while following Miley vs. Nicki and eye-roll about republicans who don't want to appear to be racist supporting an Uncle Tom like Dr. Ben Carson.

We can be many things at once. Serious, frivolous, and political, and on it goes.

Check the sidebar.

[–]wafflebread 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, some of these comments baffle me. It's like, black folk can't multitask?

[–]leslienewp 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

this is hugely in the public eye, and racism in the music industry reflects a larger issue of preferential treatment/representation of whites in the media in general. I don't think its bad to start a meaningful conversation out of something pretty frivolous like "celeb gossip", 'cause people pay attention to this shit.

[–]raw-sienna 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

I get really confused when people get upset at other people for being entertained by the entertainment industry. If you don't like it don't engage?

[–]krs--1Don't like it here? Go back to r/Europe! 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Are you saying art occurs in a vacuum? Isn't her art based on marketing 'black culture' to the masses? It is influenced by, and influences various societal tropes. Because she is an individual doesn't mean her art is above criticism. If she's free to express herself, other people are also free to express their criticism, you can't deny them that right. The best is to come up with a counter-criticism ad infinitum...

[–]raw-sienna 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not at all I'm cool with discussing nick And her art. I'm talking about people who seem to hate the premise of the entertainment industry. You're right though that comment was pretty useless I could have contributed to the discussion in a more meaningful way.

[–]Honeychile6841 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nicki, create something that warrants what you think you deserve. There are other things more important right now than your "art". Bye gurl.