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Australian government considers chemically castrating paedophiles (metro.co.uk)

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[–]VomisA12 33ポイント34ポイント  (37子コメント)

Pedophile here (non-offending!). Just chiming in to say no, chemical castration is completely unnecessary, and quite frankly horrible. There are dangerous side affects and it has been compared to chemo.

Further, chemical castration doesn't remove the attraction to children, it only kills sex drive, it is a temporary 'solution' and would absolutely not stop an offender from abusing if they wanted to. And to be clear, it does not shut off the "drive", it merely weakens it.

Your point of view is coming from a good place, but to define chemical castration as a blessing is a little fucked up. It is only a blessing for people who willfully ignore scientific consensus on the issue and want to appear 'tough on pedophiles' for reelection.

I'll say, chemical castration is as helpful for pedophiles as small pox blankets were for Native Americans. Sure maybe it could help some in the beginning, but it's deadly the longer you use it. There are much better solutions.

[–]Skellum 3ポイント4ポイント  (10子コメント)

want to appear 'tough on pedophiles' for reelection.

I think those people are the ones that say we should gas them all, kill them, or ensure they never leave prison. I'm in the crowed that wants treatment, which wont work since it's a 'philia, and a way to properly ensure there's a far less great chance that the behavior happens.

I think if you're an offending pedophile that there should always be a dual option of prison or psychiatric help plus Depo. The case being that most places in the world have only 1 option for offending pedophiles and that's incarceration at best.

[–]VomisA12 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

A dual option? Sure I guess. But is it really better if chemical castration doesn't solve the problem and has awful side affects? How is it more humane than incarceration?

A better option would focus on prevention in the first place, and legitimate treatment centers after someone offends. Or ending the registry.

Like I said, anyone suggesting chemical castration as a smart way to deal with pedophilia is willfully ignoring scientific consensus.

[–]foust2015 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Would you rather take a drug that kills your sex drive or literally spend the rest of your life locked up in prison?

And also, research actually does support chemical castration as a very effective way to reducing repeat sex offenses. chemical castration decreases the occurrence of repeat offenses from 75% to 2%.

[–]intensely_human 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I would actually like to know what it's like to live without a sex drive, if only for a little while.

[–]Skellum [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I would actually like to know what it's like to live without a sex drive, if only for a little while.

Imagine not really giving a shit about women, or whatever your sexual orientation is. You know you should feel something but there's just no real urge to go for it. That motivation you have to exercise, to be social, to get out there and meet people? Yea, a lot of that's gone other than wanting friendships.

It really has you examining the balances of power. Why do I need to put myself out there for you? I dont really give a shit about your primary methods of drawing me in. They have to have personality as a 100% draw. They have to have life goals, expectations, not be batshit insane and clingy.

The refocus in your priorities is very cool. Then I started working out harder and getting testosterone supplements and now I want to hump people.

[–]foust2015 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You know that period 15 minutes after you're done jerking off?

That, forever.

[–]VomisA12 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Except it's not simply a drug that kills your sex drive. As I said it has nasty side affects that can affect you for the rest of your life. It's also fallacious to say those are the only two options. We don't have to lock up all offenders for the rest of their lives, and reasonable incarceration is a better solution.

To be honest I'm skeptical about that source as it seems to be a college paper at best, it conflates pedophiles with child molesters in the first paragraph, and it's sources are mostly articles (not research papers) over 10 years old; professionals now are taking a very different approach, and most seem to show disdain for chemical castration. Not to mention, the link for the source of the 2% figure just redirects to a random page.

Whether it's legitimate or not, I certainly don't believe chemical castration is the only way to reduce repeat sex offenses. It's worth noting recidivism rates for sex offenders is much lower than recidivism rates for the general criminal population already. http://www.csom.org/pubs/mythsfacts.html

Perhaps for some chemical castration is necessary, or helpful. But considering it's side affects I think prescribing it to every offender would be inhumane and unnecessary. To pit it against a life in prison is hardly just.

[–]Skellum [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Whether it's legitimate or not, I certainly don't believe chemical castration is the only way to reduce repeat sex offenses.

Thats cool, but there's no other established treatment and I dont see anyone in here recommending a different course instead of saying "That's mean".

Yes, it's mean. And yes the article is talking about pedophiles who have offended just like the topic of this whole thread. If these people had not destroyed someone's childhood no one would be coming down on them.

[–]VomisA12 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Of course there is no other established treatment right now, but there are some in development. Dr. Elizabeth Letourneau is in the process of establishing a program by researching adolescents attracted to minors. And take a look at project Dunkelfeld in Germany. Both of which are taking the prevention approach, but I do believe such research could lead to beneficial treatment/rehabilitation programs for offenders as well.

That's the different course I'm recommending. Instead of pouring resources into a potentially inhumane 'solution' that doesn't solve the problem, we should be putting resources into prevention and researching better treatment options.

I'll put it this way, do you think chemical castration is any better than incarceration, or is it simply better than life incarceration? If the former, I've already outlined the shortcoming of chemical castration that would hamper rehabilitation. If the latter, I think a better approach would be to revise our sentences and policies to maximize rehabilitation.

[–]PM_me_your_8008 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

And what about the awful side effects the children grow up with after being molested? I understand pedophilia is a illness, but let's not forget the actual victims here.

[–]VomisA12 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not absolving offenders here. But it comes down to rehabilitation vs revenge.

That's why I say prevention is the best option. If we provide resources and support to pedophiles, I (and many professionals) believe it will do a lot to prevent pedophiles (those who struggle more with offending) from offending in the first place.

[–]MUSTY_Radio_Control 4ポイント5ポイント  (11子コメント)

You're a non-offending pedophile, which leads me to believe that you dont want to be the way you are. Hypothetically speaking, if there was a switch that you could flip to turn off all of your attractions towards children, would you flip it?

[–]trognus 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

The problem is that's not what the shot does

[–]VomisA12 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

To be honest, no I wouldn't. Not once in my life have I ever felt I was a danger to children. I know I won't abuse a child and pedophilia has shaped a lot of my identity, so turning it off would only feel like a rejection of the self. Even though it has only really made my life more difficult, pedophilia is a part of me, and I've accepted it.

I would definitely flip a switch to make me attracted to people my age as well though.

[–]verstehst 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

'(Flipping that switch) would feel like a rejection of the self.'

What? Okay. This is where I need clarification, as a young guy who's always struggled with concepts of identity.

Isn't the 'self' something that's supposed to be rejected sometimes? We assess who we are, look at what we don't like about ourselves, and try to improve?

[–]VomisA12 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Well, pedophilia has made me who I am. You may see it as a wholly negative thing, but it's not so black and white. Overall it has made my life harder, but (as hard as it is to believe) I think it has also made me a more empathetic and conscientious person. It has made question everything and pressured me to consider my own biases, and others biases. And I imagine it has also made my life a lot more interesting than it would have been otherwise.

But to put it like this, I know I'm not going to abuse a child, and I've accepted that I'm not going to have a satisfying sex life. What does it matter if I have the attraction or not? Either I'm a pedophile or I flip the hypothetical switch and become asexual. Right now at least I already know what being a pedophile is like.

[–]verstehst [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I used to be fat. My experiences being fat made me who I am. But I recognized it as an area in which I could improve, so I lost weight.

The main place this analogy falls off is in the antecedent of the third sentence, because most people don't think you can change your sexuality. But in a hypothetical that accounts for that, I would think that it would be more straightforward.

Related note- what are your thoughts on the fluidity of sexuality? Can someone change who they're attracted to? Are fetishes and 'deviancies' something you're born with? Or are they just the result of , like, unintentional Pavlovian conditioning?

[–]Skellum [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yea, as unfortunate as it is we have to lump pedophilia in there with homosexuality. If you discovered a way to cure aberrant sexual behavior then homosexuality falls under it too. I'm not saying homosexuality is dangerous but it is aberrant.

It's a tricky one, which is why you have to go with the 'dangerous to minors' angle. You wont be 'curing' people who fuck shoes, just ones that rape kids.

[–]dustlesswalnut 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

You think that because he hasn't raped any kids, he doesn't want to be attracted to them?

How many men have never raped a woman, and how many women have never raped a man, despite being attracted to them? (Hint: most.)

[–]LOTM42 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

There's ways to act on that attraction without it being rape tho, that's not true for pedophiles

[–]dustlesswalnut [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Sure there are. Erotic literature, role-playing with consenting adults. I'm sure there are other ways.

[–]tossaway_fortoday 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Throwaway obviously, but YES. In a heartbeat. I would never, EVER harm a child and I never chose to be the way I am, but I hate and am disgusted with myself every day for it. Even though no one in my life knows about my attractions, you have no idea how much it has negatively impacted my life. It's not easy hating yourself and not being able to tell anyone why.

If it were as simple as flipping a switch to turn it off, I would absolutely go for it. Chemical castration seems barbaric though especially considering the side effects. As much as I despise myself for being the way I am, I would not opt for it.

[–]adminslikefelching [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Imagining myself in that position, if there were no side effects, i would flip it. But if there were, i wouldn't. I think that's the point he is trying to make.

[–]UneasySeabass 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

People are already linked to studies showing Chem castration reduces recidivism from 75% to 2%

[–]VomisA12 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

See my reply to another user who linked that source.

Though if you have another source I'd love to see it.

[–]clow_reed 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

So, what age are you talking about here? After puberty? Teens? Under puberty? Infants?

[–]VomisA12 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Pedophilia is defined as an attraction to prepubescents.

Personally my age of attraction is about 8-14. So no, not infants, and not teens unless they look younger. Though, I have yet to meet or see an 18 year old who looks young enough for me to be sexually attracted to them, (and I'm not going to date anyone younger than 18).

[–]clow_reed [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Fair enough.

The word pedophilia has been extensively used and abused. Technically, it does refer to prepubescents, yet crimes are routinely found for up to 17 with the same name.

It's a tough situation. I mean, you're attracted to whom you're attracted to. And if we were having this discussion even 50 years ago, 11-13 and up would be fine.

I also have severe issue with the crime of child porn possession. If I take a picture of a murder, the picture is legal. Same with rape, or theft, or whatever other crimes. Except this one. And not only that, it's also statutory crime, with no mens-rea.

The lack of mens-rea means that putting those pics on someone makes a pretty much irrefutable case. And that stinks.

And lastly, I wasn't asking whom you would date, or have relationships with . That's none of my business.. To much liability. I as more curious about your attraction and feelings, and not your actions :)

[–]Birddawg65 -5ポイント-4ポイント  (4子コメント)

So wait, pedophiles could die from this? Hang on while I shed a tear for those poor, poor pedophiles...

[–]dustlesswalnut 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

Even the ones that have never raped any kids?

[–]Birddawg65 -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well the irrational side of my brain says yes, but I'm not that stupid. Rationally tho I am in favour of a three strikes type policy. Third strike and you're out, forever.

[–]VomisA12 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

If the death penalty was cheaper than life incarceration and our justice system was tight enough to ensure innocents were never falsely prosecuted I would be inclined to agree with you, depending on the nature of the crimes.

But, right now this is not the case.

[–]Birddawg65 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Three strikes: 1st strike is incarceration and rehabilitation. 2nd strike is the same plus chemical castration. 3rd strike and you're pushing up daisies. If it happens three times then the person is hopeless and not wrongfully accused.

[–]Birddawg65 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

There are much better solutions.

Like a bullet to the brain. It's cheap and %100 effective at stopping repeat offenders.

[–]VomisA12 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

The death penalty is actually more expensive than life incarceration.

Now, if you're talking about just assuming guilt and avoiding any fair process or bureaucracy, I wonder if you would feel the same way if it was your son, your brother, etc? Food for thought.

[–]Birddawg65 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

The death penalty is actually more expensive than life incarceration.

I would love you see your source on that...

And I would never do away with due process. Instead I would support a three strikes policy.