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HAPPENINGSSad Puppies and Rabid Puppies get a win, of a sort: SJWs decide on a scorched earth tactic, destroying the Hugos rather than allow non-hugbox / non-white authors to win. (voxday.blogspot.ca)

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[–]Weedwacker 127ポイント128ポイント  (18子コメント)

In categories where there was any nominee that wasn't endorsed by the puppies, they won. In categories where there was only puppy endorsed nominees, "No Award" won, meaning people voted that nobody should win.

The voting data from the awards can be found here on google docs.

From looking at it, it's pretty clear that votes for puppy nominees were spread out, as people voted for the author or work they thought most deserving rather than stacking 1 to ensure some sort of "group victory".

Votes are wildly stacked on non-puppy nominees and No Award.

Why?

Despite complaining about slates, the social justice crowd created their own slate which almost entirely mirrors the final results.

They decided that instead of judging the works on merit, or voting for puppy endorsed authors (even if the writers themselves shared their politics) they would rather vote against writers because puppies endorsed them as a favored candidate.

Essentially, they got mad and burned down the reputation of the award show to make a political statement, all while talking about how inclusive they are.

[–]White_Phoenix 30ポイント31ポイント  (1子コメント)

So this is essentially punching your nose to spite your face?

Jesus, what a mess. This is almost like a pyrrhic victory (everybody loses/dies, so there really isn't a victory).

They were so fucking stuck in their ideology they were willing to cut off their arm to stop it from happening.

[–]IE_5 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

It was essentially a "Judgment of Solomon".

And instead of deciding to give the baby to the other woman out of love, they decided to cut it in half so that nobody can have it.

[–]slimthigh 54ポイント55ポイント  (4子コメント)

Scalzi and other progs have been running slates before too. Half the point of the Puppies is to expose this. Don't forget the progs have been pretending like it ain't no thang.

[–]MediocreMind 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

Scalzi and other progs have been running slates before too. Half the point of the Puppies is to expose this.

I'm honestly not familiar (beyond knowing the general gist of the situation) with this whole Puppies thing and after he sicced his Twitter followers on me for suggesting that it's important we teach children in school not to hurt other people, regardless of who they are, I'm definitely no fan of Scalzi, but I've actually not heard this accusation before from either side. Got anything more I can read on it?

I mean, certainly wouldn't surprise me since I'm still getting harrassing messages on occasion from his followers (I was actually a huge fan of his just prior to this event) nearly two years after the fact - he seems incredibly skilled at rabble rousing, gotta give him that - but I've just not seen much about it.

Side-note: Can we stop using prog/progressive as some sort of pejorative? Authoritarianism is the issue, splitting it between political labels dilutes the problems that need to be addressed far too often these days.

[–]matthew_lane [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I mean, certainly wouldn't surprise me since I'm still getting harrassing messages on occasion from his followers (I was actually a huge fan of his just prior to this event) nearly two years after the fact - he seems incredibly skilled at rabble rousing, gotta give him that - but I've just not seen much about it.

Try reading his book "Red Shirts." Nothing will put you off Scalzi as fast as actually reading his work.

Side-note: Can we stop using prog/progressive as some sort of pejorative? Authoritarianism is the issue, splitting it between political labels dilutes the problems that need to be addressed far too often these days.

No, because they are the same thing. See there is progress, in which we can point to changes made over time by society that have improved things. But progressivism is an authoritrain view that states that I & only I know where the future shall lead & as such my views regardless of how wrong I am are actually the right views & so should be enshrined in law.... Even when I'm wrong..... ESPECIALLY when I'm wrong.

Progressivism is just Authoritarianism pretending to be for your own good.

ASctually C.S Lewis had a great quote about progressivism & it's fitting, given we are talking about the Hugo Awards

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”

[–]birdboy2000 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've seen this allegation thrown around a lot by the puppy supporters, but no concrete proof.

[–]matthew_lane [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You mean the accusation that Scalzi has had his own hugo slate? Google "Award pimpage" & Scalzi, an you'll find his yearly nomination recommendations (all his own work of course).

[–]DiaboliAdvocatus 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

And at least according to Vox Day only five No Awards have happened in the entire history of the Hugos. This year there were four No Awards.

[–]Weedwacker 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

The last time there was a No Award was in the 70s

[–]throwawayF845 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is just precious.

Do they really not care about looking like complete morons when they'd promote literally anything over someone they with different political views?

It's like promoting garbage like "gone home" all over again...they're raging zealots by now.

[–]Fedorable_Lapras[🍰] 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

Is it me, or the voting system seems weird? Why would they go through five rounds of voting for each category?

[–]Weedwacker 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

You vote in order of preferences

So for example, the first page under best novel, 251 people voted for Dark Between the Stars as their first choice, but because it came in last, in the next pass those voters votes instead went to their 2nd choice

[–]Fedorable_Lapras[🍰] 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ah I see. So a system where you tick off your preferences instead? It looks like a lot just ticked "No Award" and left the other preferences blank.

[–]Weedwacker 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes because they would rather not have an author win that their ideological opponents recommended, even if that author's work is good or their politics agree with them, because then the people who recommended them would "win".

[–]totlmstrBanned for triggering reddit's advertisers 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

They are also saying that the others should have withdrawn from it.

[–]TheFellows 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Here's a preliminary analysis someone has done to try to get numbers for the various factions,

https://chaoshorizon.wordpress.com/2015/08/23/2015-hugo-stats-initial-analysis/

[–]YouMadeMePost 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is equal parts funny and terribly sad.

[–]Rygar_the_Beast [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

that's some shit, man. They are telling exactly how to vote.

[–]RavenscroftRaven 76ポイント77ポイント  (0子コメント)

Reminder: SJWs would rather burn the world to ash than admit that one person wrote a decent novel who also happened to be liked by people who weren't SJW.

[–]bcwalker 108ポイント109ポイント  (34子コメント)

A brief reminder: the Sad Puppy objective was to prove that the SocJus clique in SF/F publishing and its associated fan groups/networks are the dominant player in this niche, and it does fix things to protect its influence at the expense of genuine meritorious work by folks not part of their clique, and in this context that means voting as a block along a slate, usually determined by a consensus opinion determined via backchannels. This is, indeed, what happened.

The Rabid Puppies claim that the Hugos (and associated bits) are beyond saving, and instead should be destroyed and replaced. The Rabid goal this year was to gauge the strength and numbers of the opposition.

The SocJus crowd did both parties' work for them admirably. Only in either unimportant categories (the fan stuff and the Film/TV stuff) were neither No Award nor clique-approved candidates winning. What happened at the ceremony was predicted, months in advance.

So, since the 2016 Puppies campaigns got organizing some months ago (since getting on the ballot was the win condition here, not the winning of awards), the first fallout on the Puppy side will be to (a) shift to the Rabid end-game as the long-term goal and (b) start on getting the word out to allies (like us) now and see how many want to come along for a hell of a fun ride.

Oh, and all it's going to cost you is a Supporting Membership to next year's WorldCon ($40US, maybe a bit more next year), and then filling out the ballot. You get a shit-ton of free books, mags, etc. (far more than what $40 will get you at B&N) with all of the nominated works. (Have stuff on hand for the crap that gets in.) BTW, that gets you to the 2017 Nomination Ballot also.

Details will be released as they are finalized. TorInAction will likely be your place to check for news.

Come along. It'll be fun, and if we can get even more No Award next year that'll be Top Kek. Few things rival videogame journalism for incompetence and corruption, but SF/F publishing and "truefans" are one of them.

[–]urection 59ポイント60ポイント  (19子コメント)

it's funny hearing SJWs crowing victory tonight when the public stated goal of the puppies was not to win awards but to show that the awards were dominated by voting blocs, which they've obviously done in spades

the Hugos are officially finished as meritocratic awards, going forward it will just be about the salt and the drama which will be even more hilarious next year but won't sell books

[–]bcwalker 18ポイント19ポイント  (12子コメント)

Something that folks like us, when we know that we'll be heeded (not just heard, heeded), ought to spread as best we can. That's how we can build demand for something else, something better; the Puppies have been watching GG, and are learning from us (and becoming quite the shitposters, especially Larry Correia)- in particular the "don't care" and "we don't need Muh PR" attitudes, along with the "have fun" and "we can grind for eternity to win" bits.

And guess what? Those alternatives are viable NOW.

Publishing? For now, Amazon does both digital and (via a subsidiary) print (in POD) and there's also Lulu/Scribd/etc. out there so we don't need them to gate-keep us.

Promotion? Well, blogs and videos and livestreams of course. If we can get just one individual to become akin to Total Biscuit in that digital realm, we'll become more influential in SF/F publishing than they are now within a year or so.

Distribution? Amazon's network has us covered, and where it ain't there's something like it that does. We just need to show how it's done, and it can be done way fucking cheap compared to them- on a shoe-string budget, really, and easily crowd-funded.

We don't need them. That's the other half of the Puppy end-game: to replace this wretched thing.

[–]slimthigh 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

the Puppies have been watching GG, and are learning from us

They have been in contact with our time traveling agents. The puppies have been sad a whole year before our inception.

It is true they've been learning about the art of shitposting though.

[–]White_Phoenix 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

the Puppies have been watching GG, and are learning from us (and becoming quite the shitposters, especially Larry Correia)- in particular the "don't care" and "we don't need Muh PR" attitudes, along with the "have fun" and "we can grind for eternity to win" bits.

This is what I always thought would happen with GamerGate. GG's not gonna be able to solve most of the problems within the media, at most it'll be able to help drag game journalism kicking and screaming back to an ethical state, however I see GG as a kickoff point for other groups to look at what have and haven't worked with GG and to see what can be done to dismantle the foothold ideologues have on various industries, hobbies, and professions.

I'm glad to see that the Sad Puppies have essentially made SocJus play right into their hands. I may completely disagree with the political leanings of these authors, but that has never stopped me from enjoying media made by people who may be on the other side of the political spectrum.

[–]bryoneill11 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

This is what is happening right now. Others group in comics, sports, politics, movies, cartoons, series, books, academia, comedy, etc. outside of videogames have found in GamerGate a home. They come here thinking that we can help them against the SJW invading and infiltrating their hobbies, work or life. But once they come here they feel unwelcome with all the users and mods telling them that this is not their place. That this is just for ethics in videogame journalism. This is a problem that ethics only GG dont want to recognize and it will be the end of GG. We should welcome everyone who want to join us and help us, no matter the industry. Because SJW are all united out there. They are one voice. And they jump in to every controversy no matter the subject. So people against SJW feels alone in that battle. We should use GamerGate as a culture war against SJW and welcome everyone who want to be here and collaborate.

[–]mbnhedger 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

i disagree.

What they get is "this is no our topic"

KiA isnt the place for all grievances about SJW's across all mediums, we are just one sub, attempting to cover all of that territory would simply drown out all the actionable events of merit.

No one is saying that the complaints of those people arent valid, we are saying that we are not equipped to deal with them.

[–]SushiSaki 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe I'm just reading the wrong places, but I've never honestly seen an interested non-gaming party turned away. How common is this issue?

[–]CaesarCzech 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

SJWs Crow over their pyrhic victory Little do they know. That they defeated only recon Element. The Army awaits

[–]mcantrell[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Something that folks like us, when we know that we'll be heeded (not just heard, heeded), ought to spread as best we can. That's how we can build demand for something else, something better; the Puppies have been watching GG, and are learning from us (and becoming quite the shitposters, especially Larry Correia)- in particular the "don't care" and "we don't need Muh PR" attitudes, along with the "have fun" and "we can grind for eternity to win" bits.

So here's the 100yen question: What can we learn from the Sad Puppies?

Are there any awards that we, as GamerGate, could set up a bloc over? I imagine the various indy games awards (IGF et all) are fixed to protect the hugbox? What can we do to help expose corruption and disrupt the hugbox in the same way?

Op Laughing Gnoll (Laughing Hyena?): Short term, we show up where public voting is available to us and vote for actually good games en mass, and not the Depression Quests and the Gone Homes of the industry? Long term, we push to be more active in groups like the IGF or what have you so the SJWs don't retain their undue influence?

[–]Xoahr 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Of course IGF is fixed: http://gamesnosh.com/fez-investors-outed-judges-2011-igf-award/ don't you remember this?

[–]mcantrell[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

But so were the Hugos. Is the IGF fixed in such a way that we can't overcome it at all?

[–]Xoahr [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't know. Probably not in it's current form. I'm just showing you evidence that the IGF was fixed, beyond that I haven't thought about it. I'm just very disappointed it got no mainstream games journalism coverage, despite being completely scandalous.

[–]thekindlyman555 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

IIRC the IGF awards are awarded by judges chosen by the IGF. The judges are secret to everyone except the participants of the award.

So yeah, I don't see a way to fix that.

[–]Dnile1000BC [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

So here's the 100yen question: What can we learn from the Sad Puppies?

That awards of every kind are corrupted. Anyone putting trust in a "awarded" product be it games, books, movies etc, should think again. This applies even to the most prestigious prizes (i.e Nobel Peace prize).

[–]kthy0056 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Sounds a bit backwards though.

The awards were dominated by voting blocs ... because the puppies screwed the nominations using voting blocs. Best case scenario, all it proved was they are willing to use the same dirty tactics that the puppies used.

It didn't help that the puppies went for some quite shady nominations in their slate. I don't like that Ms Marvel won in the graphic novel section for example, but the puppy-suggested graphic novel was ... some zombie webcomic that barely has 1 review on Amazon and 3 on Goodreads?

If I were in their place, I would've made the lists a bit more topical and relevant, like having Sanderson and Vandermeer on their Best Novel list. If Words of Radiance lost, the point would have been made much more smoothly.

[–]urection 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

all it proved was they are willing to use the same dirty tactics that the puppies used.

yes that was the point, namely to demonstrate that a supposed fan award is actually controlled by self-appointed gatekeepers who are willing to burn the integrity of the award to the ground rather than let people win who they don't like

so, mission accomplished

[–]kthy0056 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

We might agree to disagree, but I think this event if anything made the people who believed in the Hugo awards made them believe in it even more.

There will always be an asterisk to this event going: some trolls nominated a bunch of obscure and not well-received sf/f material, and the voters cleaned it up and only gave the awards to the people that deserved it.

Again, the whole she-bang would've made a lot more sense if the stories that were denied any prize actually were popular and won other awards. Otherwise, you just have The Dark Between the Stars (153 reviews on Goodreads) versus The Goblin Emperor (1423 reviews) and Three-Body Problem (1148 reviews). Now, Words of Radiance has 4745 reviews on Goodreads and it was reddit's best fantasy book of 2014, a whole different manner.

Honestly, I long-stopped trusting the Hugo Awards ever since A Storm of Swords lost in front of fucking Harry Potter.

[–]The_Shadow_of_Intent [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

There will always be an asterisk to this event going: some trolls nominated a bunch of obscure and not well-received sf/f material, and the voters cleaned it up and only gave the awards to the people that deserved it.

This view makes sense if you only consider this past year's Hugo drama, but in context it's pretty clear this is nothing new. Except the "trolls" nominating garbage like "If You Were a Dinosaur, My Love" (which thankfully did not win) were not called out in previous years.

The Scalzi-sized asterisk known as Redshirts passed without complaint, of course.

Again, the whole she-bang would've made a lot more sense if the stories that were denied any prize actually were popular and won other awards. Otherwise, you just have The Dark Between the Stars (153 reviews on Goodreads) versus The Goblin Emperor (1423 reviews) and Three-Body Problem (1148 reviews). Now, Words of Radiance has 4745 reviews on Goodreads and it was reddit's best fantasy book of 2014, a whole different manner.

Honestly, I long-stopped trusting the Hugo Awards ever since A Storm of Swords lost in front of fucking Harry Potter.

Really? It is more than silly to declare "popular" and "won other awards" as cause for a Hugo and then complain about ASOIAF (25 million lifetime sales) losing to Harry Potter (400 million lifetime sales + gobs of other awards in much more prestigious competitions). Clearly, you judged these works by their content, which would seem to be the only reasonable thing to do for a literary award.

[–]fourredfruitstea 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

the Hugos are officially finished as meritocratic awards

Meritocracy is shitlordy, didn't you kow?

[–]matthew_lane [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

the Hugos are officially finished as meritocratic awards, going forward it will just be about the salt and the drama which will be even more hilarious next year but won't sell books

Actually just the opposite. We succeeded in bring the situation to the public view of the right people. In future years there will be so many people nominating, with so many recommendation lists that the SJW's will lose all of their power, as there own preferences will not be reflected.... Because there will be to many things to vote against.

See that's what happened this year. We got books on the nomination list & they voted AGAINST them. They didn't vote FOR anything, the simply voted AGAINST "the other." But in future years there will be to many others to vote against & so the Hugo Awards will return to being about merit as the SMoF's lose interest as their clique loses control.

The SJW's are declaring this to be a victory, to be the end of the puppies, but all it is is the end of the prologue.... The first chapter hasn't even started yet.

[–]RidiculousIncarnateBest mattress salesman EVER 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sounds hilarious and i love books, count me in.

[–]FSMhelpusall 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

Consider the following:

There are exceedingly successful authors who have never won a Hugo, or who only won Hugos after they were exceedingly successful. Why should I believe that this circlejerk is worth anything? Why can't we simply work around them?

[–]bcwalker 19ポイント20ポイント  (2子コメント)

Worth anything? It's not; tonight proved that.

The issue is that they won't stop here. They want to eliminate wrong-think across the board. Working around them only delays the inevitable. Stop them there or we deal with them here.

Making alternatives is necessary in the long-term, but we won't get there if they wreck the space necessary to do it (and they have been trying; the fight w/ Amazon over royalties is part of that- it's been a disguised fight to save an obsolete business model that they run and control) and they have the past behavior (via No Platforming) to show that they'll do it.

They believe that this is a war, and wars only need one party to make them happen.

[–]warrencbennett 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah good luck with that. As long as Self Publishing and small press are things, they won't even be able to put a dent in that.

[–]bcwalker 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Correct. Hell, Mike Cernovich just threw out a Tweet stating his desire to get in on the action for next year, and I just finished a manuscript that will qualify if published at the right time. I'm game if he is.

[–]SupremeReader 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Are they going to ship stuff to Europe? Because I'm interested.

[–]bcwalker 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think so, and there is a digital option for many of them.

[–]SupremeReader 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm in, and telling people.

[–]warrencbennett 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Count me in. I'm all for it.

[–]GreyMASTA 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Can you post here in KiA when theres an update on the membership?

[–]bcwalker 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

If someone else doesn't beat me to it, sure.

[–]AFCSentinel 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I used to read tons of SF/F stuff when I was younger but kinda fell by the wayside in recent years, so this will be the perfect opportunity to rediscover my love for that particular genre and do some good by voting. I'll however make sure to not follow any subs etc. related because I don't want to end up being influenced in my voting choice. It's like an experiment for me, will I pick SJW authors more, SP/RP authors or neutrals?

[–]Wreththe 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

My main question is if this is getting any coverage in the mainstream media, I'll check out torinaction as I suspect the info will be there.

[–]Interference22 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The sad puppies view I can get behind, but not the rabid puppies one: better to improve than scorch the earth and salt the ground.

Not sure how I feel about Vox Day's involvement: the man seams to be an absolute headcase.

[–]urection 55ポイント56ポイント  (5子コメント)

having been burned multiple times by buying award-winning sci fi that turned out to be garbage written by someone with Correct Politics, the Hugo award winners list from 2015 and onwards is a handy guide of authors to avoid

[–]ocKyal 19ポイント20ポイント  (2子コメント)

I feel ya, I read Ancillary Justice last year based on some blog recommendations I saw that were just raving about it. What I got was a muddled mess of a story that I think involved some sort of ship AI? It was incredibly confusing and in no way deserved the praise it got.

[–]urection 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm still traumatized by some Cory Doctorow garbage that was praised to hell and back by the usual suspects

[–]The_Shadow_of_Intent [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Ancillary Justice: get rocked by 150-page tete-a-tetes between two disgendered blobs.

[–]CaesarCzech 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well what about starting Consumer Secret Service ? group that would check if the award winning novel is really deserving or "Correct Politics" one. Best Bet of GG is to get our own Rewiews books movies games essetially From consumers for consumers.

[–]urection 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

yeah I would love that; there's such a glut of bad sci fi out there these days that's basically tumblr fanfic, it's very hard to separate the wheat from the chaff

[–]DoctorBleed 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

"The Hugo Awards do not have problems with cliques."

"No let's use our clique influence to keep these people from winning awards."

[–]BundleBee 26ポイント27ポイント  (0子コメント)

Something to add to this, Daddywarpig got semi banned for tweeting during the Hugo's. SJW totalitarians shut him down, just as they burned down their own awards. Quite hilarious given the fact there are nearly 50k here in this sub and ~550 rapid puppies voted. Not so sure about the Sad puppies. Especially when you consider the amount of grandstanding the hosts did in the preshow. Add on top of that the puppies made possible the greatest number of voters in the history of the Hugo's at just over 6,000 voters....6,000.... That's all.

https://twitter.com/Grummz/status/635311427046150144

https://archive.is/g5RaP (Not that grummz needs to be archived but none the less)

And here's the official votes. PDF LINK

Edit formatting/voting pdf

[–]OneCommentWonder111 11ポイント12ポイント  (6子コメント)

What are sad puppies? Sorry I'm a little out of the loop.

[–]Weedwacker 25ポイント26ポイント  (4子コメント)

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/02/05/the-hugo-wars-how-sci-fis-most-prestigious-awards-became-a-political-battleground/

Authors and sci-fi fans who felt that the Sci-fi establishment and awards had become a left-leaning circlejerk that excluded authors, editors, and writing for political views.

They ran nomination campaigns to try to prove that the Hugo awards had a problem of excluding people, and they just proved it.

[–]Niridas 15ポイント16ポイント  (3子コメント)

so basically McCartyism 2.0 : /

and they think they're "the good guys"

fascists..... fascists everywhere

[–]OneCommentWonder111 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

They consider themselves the anti-fascists too, which is funny.

[–]vonmonologue 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

They consider anyone advocating for allowing a diversity of opinions to be fascists, which is brain aneurysm funny.

[–]SupremeReader 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

More like

Creative writers enjoyed great prestige in both the Russian Empire and the Soviet Union because of literature's unique role as a sounding board for deeper political and social issues. Vladimir Lenin believed that literature and art could be exploited for ideological and political as well as educational purposes. (...) Communist Party ideology influenced the creative process from the moment of artistic inspiration. The party, in effect, served as the artist's Muse. In 1932 the party established socialist realism as the only acceptable aesthetic -- measuring merit by the degree to which a work contributed to building socialism among the masses. The Union of Writers was created the same year to harness writers to the Marxist-Leninist cause. Goskomizdat (State Committee for Publishing Houses, Printing Plants, and the Book Trade), in conjunction with the Union's secretariat, made all publishing decisions; the very allocation of paper became a hidden censorship mechanism.

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/archives/attc.html

[–]mcantrell[S] 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

I replied to someone else with a good EIL5, but the short form is -- they're like GamerGate, but for Science Fiction / Fantasy novels. A bunch of authors found out this highly recognized award was being fixed by a group of SJWs, and pushed a voting block -- "Sad Puppies" -- to fight back against them. The SJWs had an epic freakout and decided to destroy the awards rather than let people outside the hugbox vote.

[–]cantbebothered67835 10ポイント11ポイント  (4子コメント)

sadpuppies =/= rabidpuppies.

[–]OneCommentWonder111 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

What are the rabid puppies?

[–]bcwalker 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

"The Hugos are not worth saving. Burn it to ash." = Rabid Puppies.

Tonight's awards validated this through the SocJus crowd doing that for them.

[–]cantbebothered67835 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Sort of a far-right wing version of the former. Their social views are - how shall I put this euphemistically - er... unenlightened.

[–]TheFellows 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

For every vote they gain about 20 people are disgusted by them and vote against.

[–]philyb 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

This whole thing is dumb on so many levels, but from the shit I've waded and now through the puppies do have legitimate concerns and looking at twitter - the way the judges etc are acting is completely unprofessional and throws the legitimacy of the awards into question.

[–]DwarfGate 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

Congratulations SJWs, you proved not only that the awards were rigged eight ways to Sunday but you did so in the best way possible - career suicide.

[–]Limon_LimeSeven-37k Get. Eleven more drug deals. 48k Get. 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wish it was like that, but the media will defend them and then next year it will be pure SJWs authors, just you watch.

[–]BendingBeifong 19ポイント20ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don't read his books, but George RR Martin sounds like a dick

[–]KiltmanenatorInexperienced Irregular Folds 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

And yet he wrote this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/3i20uh/showerthought_hugo_results_with_historic_run_of/cuclzca

[–]Markiep52 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Pretty sure he is anti GG or pro SJW.

By the way wasn't he being attacked by them recently for GoT?

[–]KDulius 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's in the "Listen and Believe" camp for sure

[–]dannylew 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

So the Puppies achieved their goal, they exposed the voting bloc.

[–]CharlieIndiaShitlord 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

Ok, I'm confused here. I was following up on some of the tweets on this, and came across archives of the Hugo Nominations, along with the Hugo Winners.

First the Nominations: https://archive.is/30gfh

Now the Winners: https://archive.is/iLpZi

The winner of Best Novel, isn't a nominee. Neither is Best Novelette.

WTF? Am I missing something obvious here?

Edit, I thought the SJW's had just done a bunch of No Award, this is different altogether.

[–]Hypercles 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Many people that made it to the ballot on the sad puppy slate withdrew their nominations. Marko Kloos was one such author, freeing up a space for the next most nominations which happened to be Three Body Problem.

With Novelette, Wright's nomination was ruled invalid as the story had been partially published outside of the 2014 timeframe.

[–]CharlieIndiaShitlord 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I knew there had to be an explanation, thanks for that.

[–]Weedwacker 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

There were some people who withdrew or were disqualified for various reasons and the next most nominated thing rose to take its place

[–]warrencbennett 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

Remember when World Con and the Hugos meant something? I do but that was years and years ago... Maybe i was just naive or maybe they actually did mean something at one time.

Not now. I will never look at a book that is a Hugo Award nominee in the same way again.

[–]Hypercles 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thats just stupid tho. Look at this years winner, the Three Body Problem. It was not a puppy nominee, but both Torgersen and Day praised it. It was Days first vote, and Torgersen said if he had known about it before he put together the slate, it would have appeared.

So theres a book that apparently the general worldcon voting public and the puppies agree on.

[–]ChildOfComplexity 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm sure there are books in most categories that would have stood a chance had the lists of nominees not been controlled by a political action committee...

[–]BlutargA riot of fabulousness! 7ポイント8ポイント  (7子コメント)

ELI5?

[–]mcantrell[S] 33ポイント34ポイント  (3子コメント)

A bunch of conservative authors suspected that the Hugo Awards, SciFi/Fantasy's most prestigious award, was being fixed by a group of SJWs headed by two bigwigs at TOR. They find some evidence of this, but the fix is handled in secret -- GameJournoPros style.

So the conservative authors, headed up by a ... polarizing author, Vox Day, started up a slate -- a predefined voting bloc -- to push back against this. It's a bit of a flash in the pan for two years, until this year, when a Liberal (Brad R Torgersen) takes over and switches from a "lets get some conservatives nominated" to "lets get some diversity in the Hugos."

Not much happens until the people performing the fix are hearing through the grapevine that they swear doesn't exist that their predefined winners didn't even make the nominations.

Cue an EPIC freakout from the SJWs, who even start trying to Gamedrop to call more SJWs in to dogpile. The regular SJW media outlets start ranting about how evil it is that people with the wrong opinions might vote, and more and more idiots start diving in, suddenly becoming blue and pink haired literary critics overnight.

In response to the Sad Puppies slate, the SJWs promise to destroy the Hugo Award by voting in a mass anti-puppies slate. They can do this by voting No Award, which is a protest option.

Meanwhile, the Sad Puppies continue to contend that the Hugos are fixed by a SJW cabal and that they're awarded for toeing SJW party line, not merit. George RR Martin, of some long whinded novel series I haven't read, points out that by going No Award people are proving Sad Puppies right and begs people not to do so.

Hugo Awards happens about 6 hours ago as of this writing. Total votes: 5900 and some change. The SJW cabal lockstep voted in their No Award to the tune of over 3000 votes for No Award, due to both the SJW cabal mass voting as well as the SJW press pushing the "Sad Puppies are killing literature" narrative.

In short, the Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies (the alternate slate created by Vox Day) lost each and every category they heralded an option in. HOWEVER, by losing, they fulfilled their real goal -- to prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the Hugo Awards are being fixed by a group of SJWs for political / ideological reasons.

[–]DiaboliAdvocatus 16ポイント17ポイント  (2子コメント)

You are confusing Sad Puppies and Rabid Puppies there. Larry Correia and Brad Torgerson run SP, Vox Day runs RP. SP came first.

SP just wanted to prove that an SJW voting bloc was influencing the Hugos. RP think the Hugos are beyond saving and want to burn it down.

Both won tonight.

[–]Krothesis 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

the hugos are Sci-Fi story awards sjws and the like decided they wanted that so they started vote brigading the awards so people they liked would win instead of the best story then people caught on and said "we're gonna prove the awards are rigged by telling you exactly how it will turn out MONTHS before they are held" and that's exactly what they did

At least thats how i understand it Feel free to correct me on anything if I'm wrong

[–]Hypercles 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

"we're gonna prove the awards are rigged by telling you exactly how it will turn out MONTHS before they are held"

Not exactly. They deciding the Hugos were rigged, decided to campaign for nominations. They did not make predictions on how the awards would go down. They months ago, won the nomination stage of the award, getting books they liked into the final Hugo ballot.

Most people (puppies and non puppies) have been unsure as to how the awards would actually go. As there was a massive influx of voters, and no one was sure how they would vote. So most people were actually light on predictions this year.

[–]Damascene_2014 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

How well did this prediction stack up against the actual awards? Is there a write up of it anywhere?

[–]Not_for_consumption 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well no one wins now. This is really disappointing.

[–]Marsroverr 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm out of the loop here. What happened?

[–]mcantrell[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

The SJWs mass voted "No Award" for EVERY category in the Hugo Awards that the Sad Puppies (which is kinda like GamerGate for SciFi/Fantasy novels, although not really) voted for.

Which was the Sad Puppy's ultimate goal: To show that the SJWs were fixing the vote for political reasons.

In short, the Hugo Awards have been tarnished, possibly forever, and the the SJWs have proven the Sad Puppies point far beyond anyone's best hopes.

[–]Marsroverr 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow. What the actual fuck.

[–]Xoahr 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's frankly just disturbing. In the past 5 years there's been this definite shift, where daring to hold different political, economic or social views to the "in-crowd" is enough to get you excluded, censored, and - ironically - oppressed.

This is the sort of stuff a dystopian science fiction author might write about, not what you expect from reality. We haven't got to McCarthyist levels, but I'm telling you, if this continues, and the illiberal left, the authoritarian progressives, get into positions of power - as we're seeing in these more fringe communities - something alike to it will return.

[–]NPerez99 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

I found this post about it, where the author is convinced that Gamer-Gate did this.

https://archive.is/LYqxG

And, also, to the Sad and Rabid Puppies, those charm school rejects who thought they could wrest control of the awards away from some mysterious vile cabal of PC CHORF SMOF SJWS, one likes to hope that last night was a demonstration of your noses being rubbed in the mess you made. I know, I know, “it’s about ethics in award nominating.”

what!?

And of course, the Puppies locked arms with the worst amongst us: those human canker sores known as Gamer-Gate. (Next year, I hear the Puppies slate will be decided by Donald Trump’s skull merkin, worked like a puppet by the ghost of a drunk, racist Ayn Rand.)

.....the fuck?

You learn that the fans will ride over the hills like an army, and they’ll lock arms and form a line that shan’t be crossed. The awards were positioned this year as finally being for the fans, and the fans showed up. And they thwacked the Puppies on the nose with rolled-up newspaper.

[–]marinuso 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

It reads almost like North Korean propaganda, over-the-top insults and all.

[–]NPerez99 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Exactly. It's bizarre. And currently being retweeted and celebrated in that #Hugoawards hashtag as a win. I don't know where the author got the idea to write it "Gamer-Gate" either.

[–]marinuso [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't know where the author got the idea to write it "Gamer-Gate" either.

I don't get the idea they either know or care much about anyone outside of their own group, except for the fact that we're all evil reactionary fascist scoundrels of course, against whom they must "form a line that shan't be crossed!".

[–]New707 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

I mean thanks for the news but i think this is out of our range, that fight was never ours, we just got compared to it because it fit their precious narrative.

I'm glad to see that the Sjw's went for scorched earth. Shows just how tightly they clutch to their precious ideology.

[–]bcwalker 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

They care about us. They HATE GG. They want us gone, and not in the nice way. From their perspective, all resistance to their clique (even if its in neighboring media, where many of them do work in various capacities and have allies/friends) is part of the culture war and they are not above resorting to very dirty means to win it.

They're already shooting at us. The least we can do is shoot back.

[–]kiaundelete49k get! 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

that fight was never ours

I'm inclined to agree, but they did receive another supporter in me for next year.

[–]Millennion 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't understand this puppy ananlogy.

[–]mcantrell[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The original name came from something like "Fixed Award Voting Makes Puppies Sad" or something like that.

So there's Sad Puppies.

Rabid Puppies is Vox Day's own version, which seeks to not only prove a point with the Hugos, but outright destroy the Hugos due to them being corrupted by the SJWs. It's an interesting dichotomy.

[–]IMULTRAHARDCORE 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You know those commercials that used to play on TV to the song In The Arms of an Angel? The one with all the abused animals they wanted you to adopt or donate money to or whatever? That was the inspiration.

[–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]Weedwacker 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I'm pretty sure that's the winners from 2013.

    [–]mcantrell[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    If so, then I feel betrayed by random twitter user #1503.

    Edit: Yup, deleting it. Thanks for the heads up.

    [–]Just_made_this_now 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Can someone please ELI5 this for those of us who have not been following this?

    [–]nzBambi 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Guardians of the Galaxy and Orphan Black? If those won I'd hate to watch the other contenders.

    [–]LoretoRomilda [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    So I spent time reading about the whole Sad and Rabid Puppies in detail. What I got was:

    the Hugos were never rigged

    they were but let's get more people voting on the Hugos!

    OMG, SOMEONE STOP THE CONSERVATIVES FROM VOTING!

    Hugos 2014: NO AWARD

    Just kill me now.

    [–]EatSomeGlass [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    I'm unfamiliar with the Hugo Awards and the inner workings of scifi culture in general (I stick to StarWars movies and StarTrek TV mostly). Can someone ELI5?

    [–]MereGear [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Cab someone explain what this puppy thing is about? Also a graphic novel won an award? Which one?