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2015 Hugo Awards Discussion Thread (self.scifi)
Jourdy288 が 15時間前 * 投稿
Alright folks, here's the place to discuss the 2015 Hugo Awards- you can watch live on Ustream right here.
EDIT: Here's where you can find 2015's winners.
[–]-Albus- 15ポイント16ポイント17ポイント 9時間前 (0子コメント)
For those curious, there were five categories where no Hugo was awarded - doubling the number of "no awards" in the history of the Hugos.
[–]somuchless 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 11時間前 (10子コメント)
Putting aside all the controversy, tons more people voted this year which is a net gain for the awards.
[–]Jourdy288[S] 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 11時間前 (8子コメント)
Agreed; however this year turns out, I think because of the increased attention, next year will be better.
[–]Pkeod 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 9時間前 (7子コメント)
It's great that more people are voting. It's not great that it's evident that this has become divisively political and not about the works but about who wrote the works. I don't know about next year being better. I have a feeling that 2016 Hugo Awards will be the year that the only award will be No Award.
[–]InfamousBrad 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 8時間前* (4子コメント)
That depends. There was a mathematically derived anti-slate rules change for the nominations that was going to be brought up in the business meeting, and I haven't heard yet how that went. My guess, based on what I saw last night, is it probably went pretty well. It was hashed out over on Making Light:
E Pluribus Hugo: Out of Many, A Hugo - the actual wording of the rule
E Pluribus Hugo: Post-Proposal Planning and To-Dos
E Pluribus Hugo: Community Q&A
If the rule passed, then what the Puppies (or any other slate) can do next year is all band together to nominate one item per category. If they try to sweep the nominations in each category, like they did this time, then none of their stuff will make it. Which means that if they, or any group, think that the problem is that their stuff isn't even being considered, it's still easy for them to nominate their best stuff, the one piece per category that the group thinks is the best. What they won't be able to do is push all of everybody else's stuff off the ballot, which is what they tried to do this year and failed hilariously.
Edited to add: Just read a comment, over on Making Light, clarifying that the Hugo rules changes don't get voted on until Sunday's business meeting, and that, even if they pass, they don't take effect until they've been ratified at next year's Worldcon in KCMO. So next year's voting will be done under the same rules as this year, so yeah, you may be right -- if the Puppies and the GamerGaters want to sweep the nominations for a second year, and there's no bigger counter-slate, then they probably can do it, one more time. In which case, yeah, expect a big sweep for No Award again.
[–]Pkeod 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 7時間前 (0子コメント)
Thanks for the links. I think unfortunately that system change proposal is still game-able to produce an eventual sweeping No Award result. It seems to assume certain behavior that has happened before will happen again with no change - reacting to current state of behavior only. It just requires more coordination from the varying groups for groups to get what they want.
The "we could have everyone but the ballot would be very long" argument is I think bad for the digital age.
[–]IAMPOUNDCAKE -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 3時間前 (2子コメント)
Puppies and the GamerGaters
These aren't synonymous.
[–]sotonohito 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 3時間前 (1子コメント)
For the purposes of the recent efforts to break and/or destroy the Hugos they are.
[–]sudoku7 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 8分前 (0子コメント)
Especially once you consider Vox Day.
[–]Jourdy288[S] 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 9時間前 (1子コメント)
Oh hey, how's your new Faerie game going?
[–]Pkeod 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 9時間前 (0子コメント)
Have several FaeVerse games in development at the moment. FaeVerse Solitaire is huge and in polish stage. FaeVerse Alchemy is on early access on Steam. We have other card related projects too... Building lots of cool things while trying to not get distracted by the noise of all of this drama. Also writing every day!
[–]_lightfantastic 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 9時間前 (0子コメント)
Hopefully next year all those new voters who came to offset the slate voting remember to nominate as well. Only way to avoid stuff like this happening in the future.
[–]InfamousBrad 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 11時間前 (0子コメント)
If you can't watch the video, it's also being covered via real-time text updates at thehugoawards.org.
[–]eremiticjude 15ポイント16ポイント17ポイント 9時間前 (7子コメント)
HAHA wow. apparently this year's statue should have been in the shape of a rolled up newpaper. a more or less complete rejection of the sadpuppy/sickpuppy slate. unless i'm mistaken the only thing from their slate to win was Guardians of the Galaxy and that was a pretty long reach in the first place anyway. Instead, a bunch of translated works won. The voters picked diversity or no one instead of bigots. nicely done hugo voters.
[+]JCSalomon スコアが基準値未満のコメント-10ポイント-9ポイント-8ポイント 8時間前* (3子コメント)
By what measure was the list of winners more diverse than the Sad Puppies list?
No, really: what were the percentages of women, various ethnic groups, etc. on the two lists?
[–]eremiticjude -5ポイント-4ポイント-3ポイント 8時間前 (2子コメント)
hahahahahahaha
i'm just going to assume that wasn't a serious question
[–][削除されました] 7時間前 (1子コメント)
[deleted]
[–]JeffreyPetersen[🍰] 11ポイント12ポイント13ポイント 5時間前 (0子コメント)
Having the same couple guys nominated over and over again is basically the definition of non-diverse.
[+]urection スコアが基準値未満のコメント-12ポイント-11ポイント-10ポイント 7時間前 (1子コメント)
their public stated goal was not to win awards but to prove voting blocs exist and that as a result the Hugos are not awarded on merit
they did that in spades; no one except tumblrinas will ever use the Hugo awards as a guide to quality sci fi ever again
[–]AlasPoorJoric 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 4時間前 (0子コメント)
If there was really a voting bloc of "SJW"/"liberal"/leftist fans, how come a mere 500-600 "Puppies" could sweep the nominations? If the Best Novel was simply chosen because of the fact that the author was Chinese, how come even Vox Day apparently had it as no. 1 on his vote (according to his post-Hugo blog)? Based on my taste (mostly Hard Scifi) and merit, 3 Body Problem was my pick of the nominees.
[+]non_consensual スコアが基準値未満のコメント-6ポイント-5ポイント-4ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
You... don't know what the word "bigot" means, do you?
[–]-Albus- 8ポイント9ポイント10ポイント 10時間前* (19子コメント)
Best line of the night so far: "I'd like to thank the patriarchy." lolololololololol
Edit: Ok, Connie Willis' commentary beats even that.
[–]InfamousBrad 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 10時間前 (18子コメント)
Do you figure that "Women Destroy Science Fiction" and "Women Destroy Fantasy" had a lot to do with Lightspeed's win?
[–]-Albus- 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 10時間前 (17子コメント)
Probably - from the commentary I'm reading, the awards given seem to be a complete rejection of the sad puppies, which is excellent.
[–]jmk4422 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 9時間前 (15子コメント)
They'll figure out a way to claim victory anyway.
[–]phunphun 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 9時間前 (4子コメント)
If Twitter is any indication, they already have.
[–]Pkeod 12ポイント13ポイント14ポイント 8時間前 (3子コメント)
They got exactly what they wanted to be shown according to GRRM.
Most of them, frankly, suck. And the mere fact that so many people are discussing them makes me think that the Puppies won. They started this whole thing by saying the Hugo Awards were rigged to exclude them. That is completely untrue, as I believe I demonstrated conclusively in my last post. So what is happening now? The people on MY SIDE, the trufans and SMOFs and good guys, are having an endless circle jerk trying to come up with a foolproof way to RIG THE HUGOS AND EXCLUDE THEM. God DAMN, people. You are proving them right.
http://grrm.livejournal.com/418643.html
[–]phunphun 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 7時間前 (2子コメント)
So the sad puppies wanted to prove that everyone is excluding them by... rigging the system to exclude everyone else, and declared the win condition to be when the "other side" did the same and actually excluded them?
Tell me how this is anything but a dick move.
[–]Pkeod 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 7時間前 (1子コメント)
everyone is excluding them by
It seemed like their concerns were more like that influential people published lists of people they were supporting to their friends and audiences, and that this had a strong effect on who actually won.
rigging the system to exclude everyone else
They proved that the nomination method that is in use is flawed enough to need to be changed, and really may have already been gamed in the past too. The admins are attempting to fix this flaw now as a result. It may take a few years or more to find a system that can't be gamed by any coordinated group, which may never happen unless they take voting all digital and skip nominations entirely.
It seemed like they were some frustrated people who wanted to expose what they saw as problems. Maybe you should talk with some of them? I see a lot of people practically dehumanizing them. They are human beings with thoughts and feelings, and contrary to popular belief they are diverse in every way. I see a lot of unfortunate hate and attacking from people who are supposed to be the good guys.
I think it's sad that some authors didn't get to win anything this year just because the puppies liked their work.
[–]Byrnhildr_Sedai 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
I think the biggest issue is the amount of overlap between the SP and RP slates. SP were trying to make a point, Vox and Co was just being well Vox.
[+]urection スコアが基準値未満のコメント-13ポイント-12ポイント-11ポイント 7時間前 (9子コメント)
[–]Mjolnir2000 13ポイント14ポイント15ポイント 6時間前 (3子コメント)
If voting blocs existed, then why did their slate result in nominations? Surely in order to prove their point, they would have had to have lost even with cheating.
[–]taylororo 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 5時間前 (1子コメント)
perhaps they meant to prove that voting blocs exist and that hugos are not awarded on merit by being that voting bloc which is unconcerned with merit!!! Viewed that way, they were right!!!
Its like that time I yelled at my waitress for no reason just to prove that terrible customers exist.
[–]michel_v 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
Or that time when some trolls set out to prove that jet fuel can't melt steel beams.
[–]michel_v 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 6時間前 (0子コメント)
Note that they'll never bring evidence that such voting blocs have occurred in the past.
[–]GGCObscurica 11ポイント12ポイント13ポイント 6時間前 (4子コメント)
So in order to prove that there's no voting bloc, the rest of scifi/fantasy fandom just had to roll over and let the Puppies steal away the awards en masse, eh?
Nice fucking try.
[+]urection スコアが基準値未満のコメント-9ポイント-8ポイント-7ポイント 5時間前 (3子コメント)
scorched earth will surely restore fan faith in the award
[–]GGCObscurica 8ポイント9ポイント10ポイント 5時間前 (2子コメント)
The integrity of the votes were compromised the moment you moist asswipes decided to stick it to the "sjws" by opting to produce a slate. The options were binary from thereon: either roll over to the lobbying, or actively mitigate it. You think trying to game the ballots means nobody fights back? The idiocy of playground bullies.
[+]urection スコアが基準値未満のコメント-11ポイント-10ポイント-9ポイント 4時間前 (1子コメント)
"the only way to prove you weren't being shut out was to demonstrably and publicly shut you out"
exactly as predicted
puppies played the Hugos like a fiddle
[–]GGCObscurica 10ポイント11ポイント12ポイント 4時間前 (0子コメント)
Or in a more accurate interpretation of the Puppies' stance: "GIVE US AWARDS OR YOU'RE MEANIES."
Everybody else: "fuck off."
[+]JDepinet スコアが基準値未満のコメント-7ポイント-6ポイント-5ポイント 9時間前 (0子コメント)
plot twist, the sad puppies all voted no award to prove a point...
[+]Tiberius666 スコアが基準値未満のコメント-10ポイント-9ポイント-8ポイント 3時間前 (2子コメント)
This year was an absolute bloody farce.
No award for you, your politics are wrong.
The way that this ended up this year has proven that if you aren't part of the clique and paying lip service to it, you'll be ostracised for it.
What a complete joke.
[–]geniice 8ポイント9ポイント10ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
Not consistent with the higher voter numbers.
The results are most consistent with an attempt to reject a political takeover.
[–]kojima100 4ポイント5ポイント6ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
No award for you, you work isn't good enough for a Hugo
FTFY
[–]Exmond -3ポイント-2ポイント-1ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
Sad to see Jim butcher didn'tChet best novel. Also seeing the controversy unfold and rather than ignore it and give books a chance to stand on their own people banded together and voted for no award makes me sad. This has definetly made me think less of the hugos.
π Rendered by PID 8697 on app-01 at 2015-08-23 15:28:30.531870+00:00 running ce2b5b1 country code: JP.
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[deleted]
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