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Past Fantasy AMAs
2015 Hugo Winners (locusmag.com)
unconundrum が 6時間前 投稿
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[–]urection -8ポイント-7ポイント-6ポイント 4時間前 (10子コメント)
lol puppies quite clearly and publicly weren't in this to win awards, only to prove voting blocs exist, which they did in spades
as of 2015 the Hugos clearly have nothing to do with merit, but for me at least will serve as a handy guide of authors to avoid since I care more about being entertained by great writing and big ideas rather than Correct OpinionsTM
[–]Hypercles 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 4時間前 (8子コメント)
only to prove voting blocs exist, which they did in spades
How? No award as at best a reaction to the puppies actions. The voters of worldcon just were not willing to put up with campaigning on the level the puppies did.
Also you're saying that for example you will ignore say books like the Three Body Problem? Despite Torgersen saying he would have put it on the sad puppy slate if he knew it existed before he complied it, or Vox Day saying it was his favourite of the nominated works.
I think everyone involved in this drama agrees that Three Body Problem got its win on merit. Its silly and doing exactly what you are saying others are doing to ignore all hugo winning works for this year on.
[–]urection -4ポイント-3ポイント-2ポイント 4時間前 (1子コメント)
How?
the voting data has been released, go take a look
[–]Hypercles 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
I did, I was the one that posted it to this thread. It just proves the majority of fans did not like the tactics used by the puppies.
[+]Col_Volkov スコアが基準値未満のコメント-8ポイント-7ポイント-6ポイント 3時間前 (5子コメント)
Which is why they campaigned on a greater level than the puppies did. Thereby horrendously clearly illustrating that:
(a) campaigning clearly exists, always existed, and damages the awards (this year, to the point of them not being given out),
(b) some authors are allowed to campaign, others are not,
(c) campaigning will happen at a worse level next year.
This was awful. Puppies are hard to respect, sure - but the issue they pointed to was illustrated in spades. The award system needs to change, and the possibility for campaigning has to be removed. As of right now, it's present, and it's the reason for plenty of talented nominees getting shut out.
[–]Hypercles 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 3時間前 (4子コメント)
There was not really anything in the way of campaigning for no award. The closest thing I could see was that puppy free list, which just removed sad puppy nominations from the ballot list.
It was more just an idea floated around by various people and in various blogs.
The closest thing to campaigning that's allowed is the Dr who fandom. But the difference with the dr who fandom is they make up a majority of numbers every year at nomination time. And their campaigning is more fans talking about what episodes they like at Hugo time. That and getting behind fans who make dr who related works - like the chicks dig time lords thingy.
Other than that its at most authors talking about what they like each year at award time or reminding fans about what they wrote in a year. Its gossip and talk more than an organised campaign like the puppies were.
As for next year, who knows. The sad puppies are dropping the whole full slate thing. The rabbids are seeming just going to campaign for no award. Will there be a 'happy kitten' campaign, possibly. I think given the fact that the puppies lost this year it will be unlikely. But if it happens I expect it to suffer a similar fate to the sads.
As for changes, they are in the work. Tomorrow at the business meeting there is a proposal to change how nominations will work. If it passes it limits the power any campaign can have to control the Hugos. It will make the nominations more a run off type system. It will however take a few years to come into effect, if passed.
[–]Col_Volkov -4ポイント-3ポイント-2ポイント 3時間前 (3子コメント)
There was not really anything in the way of campaigning for no award.
You are horrendously disconnected from reality if you believe this to be the case. It was very, very clearly coordinated and campaigned for.
Aka campaigned for by various people and various blogs. That's literally how campaigning works.
[–]Hypercles 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 3時間前 (2子コメント)
To me campaigning requires some level of organisation. It needs more than just a lot of people sharing the same view. For example, sad puppies 3 that was pushed and organised by multiple authors (Correia, Torgersen, Hoyt, ect).
A bunch of people all coming to the same conclusion, that the guys who are shouting about how shit the Hugos did the wrong thing, is not as organised enough to be a campaign.
[–]Col_Volkov -4ポイント-3ポイント-2ポイント 3時間前 (1子コメント)
Which is exactly how the anti-puppies campaign worked: multiple authors coordinating their fans, via their blogs, to vote No Award. It was highly organized, in exactly the same way puppies campaign was.
A bunch of people all coming to the same conclusion, that the guys who are shouting about how shit the Hugos did the wrong thing, is not as organized enough to be a campaign.
Of course it's organized enough to be a campaign. Pushing fans toward a conclusion, which is exactly what was done, IS campaigning. The individual authors may have arrived to the conclusion independently (and even that's questionable, as one can easily argue - although not prove - that GRRM's authority and history in the field dragged other authors, who otherwise would have remained neutral and would not have expressed a public position, into it), but their fans sure as hell followed their shepherds. Which is the definition of campaigning.
I am actually OK with public votes... but not when authors express public positions on the subject. As it stood, campaigning was a routine component of Hugo, and an important author with a lot of fans saying, on their blog, "Vote for X", DID constitute campaigning... then, when puppies came and did it better, the same authors that have been doing it for years cried foul.
And that's bullshit. If there is a public vote, campaigning is bound to happen. So there shouldn't be a public component to it - or, what we observed, is a logical conclusion.
[–]Hypercles 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 2時間前 (0子コメント)
Which authors? I know there is the puppy free slate website that has been floating around. And I think an editor associated with Tor (Maybe TNH or PHN) said no award was not a dumb idea. But the big authors who have weighed in on the puppy drama (Flint, Martin and Scalzi) have not been supporting the no award everything.
Martin, was not pushing no award. If you had read any of his blogs on this, you would know he has been vocally against no awarding everything.
But the puppies did something different to what was normally done. Lets say I agree with you, that something like Scalzi's pimpage posts are campaigning. Previous campaigns have a) never been to the same scale as the sad puppies and b) never been as successful.
I think if Scalzi had in the past come out with a 'recommendation list' that comprised of the majority of categories and never discussed the nominated work. And then that list became the Hugo ballot, the outrage would have been the same and it would have been no awarded.
There is a difference to an author talking up what they like occasionally, and campaigning. I mean for example here's Martins recommendations for the 2013 Hugos.
http://grrm.livejournal.com/262170.html
Leviathan Wakes, The Wise Man Fears and 11/22/63 make up his recommendations.
http://www.thehugoawards.org/hugo-history/2013-hugo-awards/
Not one of those stories made it to the Hugos that year. Despite Martin being the biggest author in the industry at the moment. Him recommending something does not have that much of an impact on things.
Sure campaign will happen. But the voting electorate can also take a stand against that campaigning when it happens. As we saw this year.
[–]Indenturedsavant 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 50分前 (0子コメント)
since I care more about being entertained by great writing and big ideas rather than Correct OpinionsTM
Which is exactly what Three Body Problem is... It's sad that you have let yourself be so easily manipulated because it's going to prevent you from reading some extraordinary stories but then again you're only hurting yourself lol
π Rendered by PID 15023 on app-19 at 2015-08-23 12:27:13.399838+00:00 running ce2b5b1 country code: JP.
残りのコメントをみる →
[–]urection -8ポイント-7ポイント-6ポイント (10子コメント)
[–]Hypercles 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント (8子コメント)
[–]urection -4ポイント-3ポイント-2ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]Hypercles 9ポイント10ポイント11ポイント (0子コメント)
[+]Col_Volkov スコアが基準値未満のコメント-8ポイント-7ポイント-6ポイント (5子コメント)
[–]Hypercles 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント (4子コメント)
[–]Col_Volkov -4ポイント-3ポイント-2ポイント (3子コメント)
[–]Hypercles 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント (2子コメント)
[–]Col_Volkov -4ポイント-3ポイント-2ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]Hypercles 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]Indenturedsavant 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント (0子コメント)