全 54 件のコメント

[–]EvilPundit 53ポイント54ポイント  (0子コメント)

You are not responsible for the shitty things that other people do.

[–]Da-Aaron 28ポイント29ポイント  (5子コメント)

Gay man here, and I totally agree. The problem is the feminists co-opted the gay rights movements almost right from the very start. If you're gay, but don't fit into their prescribed idea of what a gay "man" should be, (dress, act, think, support politically, etc.) you're scorned and vilified. The gay community if far more discriminatory of us that we don't fit into their mold than everyone else is. If you're not "gay enough," you're worse than a Bible-thumping Republican in their eyes. I'm sorry, but I'm a man first, and gay second. I hate being introduced as "my gay friend." Why the qualifier? Why can't I just be their friend?! It's no wonder I left the gay community behind years ago. I'd much rather hang out with my straight friends, go to a baseball game, work on my car, or do something "normal" than prance around with glitter on my face and appease the feminists that have taken over the gay rights cause for their own interests. We're pawns in their grand scheme, and the sooner all the gays realize it, the better.

[–]STEM_logic 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know what it's like in the states, but I'm very glad gay rights stuff and feminism have been kept separate in the media from what I can see (other than the obvious lesbian feminist stereotype), for the gay movement's sake. Before I found reddit I never knew they were so fully interlinked, honestly my feelings when I see or hear "lgbt movement" have changed. I still support equal rights for everyone, but I don't like being an enemy of a movement I want to support and have my support (and the support of anyone else who sees sexism and gender norms as bidirectional - because it's nothing to do with gay rights) accepted rather than actively rejected - it's hard to feel love for a movement which hates you, completely wantonly. I know it's just a portion of especially vocal and active people, but they are also the ones who are accepted as speaking on behalf of all gay people.

As an aside, one depressing thing I saw on facebook was a gay guy I hung out with in college attended some lgbt in tech talk and saying posting "lesbians have it worse because they are both women and homosexual" despite the fact that the worst homophobia has always been directed towards gay men. This plays into Warren Farrell's idea of yes, women having a social glass ceiling, but men having a social glass cellar - i.e it's better to be a man at the top, but worse to be a man at the bottom. The result of this being that it's actually the men and boys of marginalised groups who suffer the most marginalisation and victimisation (racism, classism, homophobia etc.), I think there's significant evidence for this, but it of course goes completely against the logic of intersectional feminist theory.

[–]rg57 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't leave spaces when the feminist nonsense comes up. Neither should you. If you don't like how it's going, you are in part to blame, by leaving.

You will recall that while Toronto Pride banned CAFE from their parade, York Region Pride just up the road a bit actually sought them out and welcomed them. It is possible to make change.

[–]Mitschu 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Eh, something must be said for the intelligence of rats, that they're always the first to flee a sinking ship.

If your house is on fire, leave it and then worry about recovery. If your ship is sinking, get on the lifeboat and then worry about the ship. If your movement has been taken over by agenda driven bigots, leave the movement, and then make changes from the outside to make it safe to participate in again.

There's something to be said for bravery in the face of danger, but a feminist infestation is a legitimate threat on par with someone dancing through your home with a gasoline jug and then striking matches. At the very least, the foundation is going to be irrevocably stressed beyond safety limits. Get out alive, and make sure that your next movement is properly pest controlled so that it cannot happen again.

[–]GTCtry_another 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Have you been paying attention to what some of these fucking faggots have been saying about gaybros? Just search "Huffington Post gaybros" and watch the effete gender-loathing fem-supremacist faggotry begin.

I mean I'm not a supporter of r/gaybros anymore because it was overtaken by this bullshit and the mods are completely misguided and don't make the most perfunctory effort to discourage invasions from gbcirclejerk, so the whole place is generally a cannibalistic orgy. But it was a legitimate project in theory from the beginning and then the "LGBT community" (heil!) proved we can't have nice things if the fembots are to be assuaged.

[–]XenonCeilingFan 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

We never thought bad of you, no need to apologize. It's all on ideological boundaries, not things like sexuality.

[–]Corn-Tortilla 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

You don't owe anyone an apology for things other people do. And if it's all the same with you, I'll just call you by your name.

[–]furmensakume[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I know I don't owe an apology, it's the principle of the thing. You're welcome to call me by name if you want, either my nick on here or by Glenn. Either way works.

[–]Corn-Tortilla 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

That works for me too Glenn, and btw, I'm glad you're here.

Edit: spelling

[–]furmensakume[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks, I'm glad to be here. Been here for a while actually, lurking and using it to get neutral resources to bitchslap rhetoric with.

[–]CountVonVague 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Meh, i've sensed that the general LGBTQIA+ community is beginning to turn on one another now that marriage equality passed and there's less to be angrily campaigning for.

[–]furmensakume[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Eh, kinda what happened to me. I got the right to marry my partner, then continued to bitch and whine for the rest of the states. Then it happened and I'm like "Well OK then". However I'm still male, so there's still plenty to foam at the mouth over.

[–]ControversialNoodles 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Please don't apologise on behalf of all gay men. That's internalised homophobia /s

But seriously, it's not you being crazy, so just keep being not crazy!

[–]MisterDamage 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

And yes, you're welcome to call me a fag, fudge packer, homo, etc. My skin's not made of tissue paper.

So you're saying the only person I'd hurt if I did that is myself, by degrading myself through the use of language intended to hurt. I thank you, but shall decline your invitation ;)

Also, apology accepted, inasmuch as you can apologize for something you didn't yourself participate in.

[–]TheRavenousRabbit 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Furmensakume, I have to agree. I'm gay as well and I've seen this kind of crap before and weirdly enough, there's some gay guys that vilify straight guys as a group.

The worst thing I've seen is entitled gay guys who complain about straights being just that, straight.

[–]furmensakume[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh I've seen them too alright. I've seen the gay groups whine about how someone being straight somehow oppresses them. Can't help but think "What do you expect? Just because you don't have access to their asses and cocks that somehow oppresses you?" Really makes me want to slap some sense into some people.

[–]Lethn 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Most of us know this, don't worry about it, it's really nice though when people like you are calling this shit out for what it is. It's the same for me when feminists are calling out other feminists for being fucking nuts.

[–]furmensakume[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

You mean like Professor Sommers AKA Based Mom? =3

[–]RedditorJemi 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

The gay rights movement was supposed to be the first successful men's rights movement, until it was coopted by feminism. The gay culture we see now is the result of feminists selectively rewarding gay men who behave the way feminists want them to. It was never supposed to be like this. Now the male portion of LGBT has basically turned into supplicating, self-hating bigots. This can all change though. Gay and bisexual males who think differently have always existed, only now they're able to speak out and actually be heard.

[–]furmensakume[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm willing to lend my voice, though I'd like to forward you to another gay man on YouTube that you might already know. Justicar.

[–]RedditorJemi 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, he's really hot and incredibly logical. He can't speak for all gay and bisexual men though. Your voice is just as important.

[–]furmensakume[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Don't get me wrong, I do speak, I'm mostly trying to avoid promoting my own YouTube channel, that's not what this is about :p

[–]RedditorJemi 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Can you link it here? If not, at least do a self-promotional post later. I'll tag you so I remember this conversation.

[–]GTCtry_another 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The gay rights movement was supposed to be the first successful men's rights movement, until it was coopted by feminism.

I kinda discuss this in detail here.

The entire topic is about feminism vs. male homosociality generally. I compare this to McCarthyism vs. homosexuality.

[–]azazelcrowley 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

This isn't really the sub for this imo. It's not a straight mens sub, or a gay mens sub. It's mens. I don't see how some gay men being annoying to some straight men is an issue for men.

[–]furmensakume[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

Because there's numerous gay men who actively support feminists and their rhetoric. Gay men against men so to speak.

[–]GTCtry_another 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

To be fair, there's a good chance we homos are overrepresented among men's rights advocates, too. A species that's peculiarly affected by sexist laws and attitudes is probably more likely to take an interest in one side and/or the other of the issue (or to try to reconcile disparate positions to whatever extent possible).

[–]mean0dean0 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

And to be unfairly lumped in or used as shields by feminists when they push their radical anti-male agendas! Feminists are not above using gay men to make themselves look like they don't hate men, so long as the gay men are good little queens and don't speak up or disagree with the main narrative. And even if they do, like Milo or others, they can still be discounted because they aren't straight and therefore participators in the Patriarchy.

[–]erenthia 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actually I think that's only part of it. You guys are just more able to aware of it when you're being treated unfairly. Part of it is facing real discrimination and hate for your sexual orientation, and another part is that you have social license to think of yourselves as being treated unfairly. Once you've opened your eyes to that, it's easier to notice being discriminated against for other reasons (such as being men). You're also less likely to be adverse to activism on your own behalf and more willing to stand up for yourselves.

[–]GTCtry_another 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Also there are men like me who find self-loathing straight male feminists utterly contemptible and spineless as they generalize our entire sex and claim to have privileges which every gay man knows he hasn't got, or that women are disempowered when every (self-aware) gay man knows that their control over men is enviable.

[–]Ultramegasaurus 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's good to see people of all sorts reject the cult of "agressive vulnerability". Of course, feminism is its vanguard, but this whole clusterfuck of (minority) identity politics is ridden with it.

[–]SideTraKd 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

And yes, you're welcome to call me a fag, fudge packer, homo, etc. My skin's not made of tissue paper.

I don't know what you've heard, or where you've heard it, but that is not something that we, as a group, tend to engage in.

[–]furmensakume[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Typically you guys don't, I have past experience with you guys. However, there is that very small section that will. Feminists aren't immune to calling a gay man a fag either, they'll say "Fag" in one breath then tell us how oppressive we are in the next.

[–]SideTraKd 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think you'll find that we don't have a lot in common with the feminists... especially the third wave feminists.

[–]WaitingToBeBanned 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

No worries, the majority of gay men are just men who happen to be gay, and not children who cannot take criticism.

[–]furmensakume[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Seems to depend on age. I notice the younger generations of gay men get completely bent out of shape over stupid shit like being called a fag.

[–]WaitingToBeBanned 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

There are many potential explanations for that, for one it is hard to call a bearded middle aged truck driver a fag, even if he was actively kissing another dude, and at that point he has probably heard worse and simply does not care. Younger people are almost always more sensitive about things.

[–]erenthia 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

the majority of gay men are....not children

seems to depend on age

[Insert clever sarcastic response]

[–]Raudskeggr 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

While I'm not thin-skinned, if you start calling me a fag when you don't know me like that, I'm going to be annoyed with you...

[–]furmensakume[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Agreed, I can get annoyed at it, but it overall doesn't offend me. One can annoy me just as easily by being a feminist that tells me that I'll never get laid (which I've seen numerous occasions).

[–]Corn-Tortilla 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm sorry, but I just kind of chuckle at the idea of some twat (any woman that makes such a comment isn't a woman, they're a twat) making such a comment to me.

If one ever made such a comment to me, I think my basic reply would have to be something like...

Dear, at my age I've plowed enough pussy that I'm now far more interested in a perfectly cooked ny strip and a couple of glasses of bourbon than sticking my dick in that hole between your legs.

[–]DavidByron2 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I want to apologize

Well I think you're the first gay man to say this here. We get women regularly coming in to say this and of course everyone tells them that they have nothing whatsoever to apologize for, but thanks for the sentiment.

The sad truth is that you have more of a case because the main people who could do more for men's rights are men themselves by simply refusing to take the shit any more. In that respect I would think that gay men could teach straight men a great deal about --- well maybe being just a little more sensitive than they have been. Sticking up for their rights instead of shrugging everything off. Gay men have done that. Men collectively have not.

[–]furmensakume[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Gay men have managed to do so via the use of a lot of venom, and I'll openly admit that I had venom at one point in time. I just simply wanted to be able to get married if I so chose to, and protection from being fired or evicted just for being gay. Granted I don't thrust my sexuality everywhere like so many others do, it is a fear I tend to have.

[–]GTCtry_another 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Tell me about it. I disagree with my fellow homos way more often than I agree with them, but the real difference is I try to say, "Look, that's not how freedom of association works," or something reasonable like that (like in the case of the pizza shop owners), rather than making retarded emotional arguments about how only </=5% of the population are the only people who "get to" have opinions on certain things because those things are "matters of life and death for me. [Collapses on fainting couch while clutching at freshly-laid pearl necklace]." Fucking idiots. We're supposed to be more intelligent than the gen. pop., not these anti-intellectual parodies of grievance mongers!

Anyway. Gay is a political identity. I'm a homo. Let's start something new!

[–]rg57 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've noticed gay rights activists have went straight out into the deep end of batshit insane,

Just now?

I've seen gay men demand special rights and special treatment

Like what? Are you talking about individual loons, or actual organizations? Even the most liberal gay organizations never asked even for affirmative action, although the other minorities (except men) demand it. Until recently, they wouldn't even ask for protections in housing and credit.

I still get a regular stream of idiots at the ready to call even me a homophobic bigot

Well, it's quite possible that you are. Being gay isn't immunity from anything, including being a homophobic bigot.

Not all gay men are batshit insane

Gee, thanks.

[–]Wargame4life -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

ill call you a small minded bigot because you seem, to think you share responsibility for the actions/behaviours or views of people that you simply share the same sexual preference with.

I am probably what these people would consider homophobic but actually am anything but, i strongly believe any man or woman should have the right to love or pair with anyone they wish and i genuinely would defend their right as best i can.

but having said that in the same way they are free to find beauty in what they want i am free to find disgust in what i want.

actually witnessing homsexuality in public makes me feel ill (two guys kissing) because its the opposite of what i find attractive, women kissing is fine, guys kissing i find disgusting, but that is my preference and is just as protected as your preference to like it.

Tl:dr you are only responsible for your actions and homophobia is not necessarily homophobia.

[–]furmensakume[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I understand your sentiments. My apology was just being given on principle. And you're right to feel however you want to feel. I see a man and a woman holding hands or kissing and I get sick to my stomach. I see dude ushering around a child or two and I wonder if he's actually the father of the child or if his woman sperm jacked the milk man's DNA just to get knocked up.

[–]throwawaylifespan -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

There are too many people wanting a free ride and they'll climb on any bandwagon going their way. Feminism, LGBT, disability, MRA ... anything.

[–]furmensakume[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

MRA doesn't seem to me like a free ride on account of the propaganda and misinformation I see constantly thrown your way while the opposition does nothing but attack a neverending supply of strawmen pulled straight out their asses.