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Nearly a thousand years ago, Inca masons fit this 12-angled stone into a wall using no mortar. (upload.wikimedia.org)

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[–]l3ol3o 41ポイント42ポイント  (63子コメント)

This isn't Inca work. It was built by the civilization before them that little is known about. When the Spaniards first came across these monoliths they asked the Inca about how they build them. They Inca told them they didn't build them and instead they were build by giants.

http://manboyinthepromisedlanddotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/p1040769.jpg?w=500&h=375

This shows the two different stone styles. The big, near perfectly cut stones were made much earlier than the Incas. The simpler stone wall in the background is Inca.

This is another example:

http://www.cuscotravelguide.com/img/inca-water-source-of-ollantaytambo-093-004.jpg

My personal theory is that there was an ancient advanced civilization that spanned the world before the last ice age. When the Ice age ended they were mostly wiped out by floods. The survivors build these monuments around the world after. Many of these sites have star alignments which correlate with around 10000BC. The arcitecture of all these old civilzations are also extremely similar. Just look at the Egyptians and South American sites.

[–]sheldonopolis 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

It was built by the civilization before them that little is known about. When the Spaniards first came across these monoliths they asked the Inca about how they build them. They Inca told them they didn't build them and instead they were build by giants.

It wouldnt be the first civilization that forgot what previous generations were capable of and resorted to mysticism to explain previous archievements. Is there more evidence for an advanced, previous civilization other than reports like this?

Edit: From what Im reading, the Incas have been inspired in their masonry by previous cultures but seem to have been capable to produce comparable results.

[–]l3ol3o 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

They didn't forgot. The story they were told is they were built by giants.

" From what Im reading, the Incas have been inspired in their masonry by previous cultures but seem to have been capable to produce comparable results."

This is true. The stonework gets worse and worse as time passes though. This is true for almost all ancient civilizations. Look at the Egyptians. When they "first" started building pyramids they were amazing. They got worse and worse as time went on.

[–]SamuraiOutcast 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

They got worse and worse as time went on.

What would be the reason for this? Impatience, Skill, National Power?

[–]l3ol3o 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Think of our current civilization and if a great disaster wiped most of us out tomorrow. We would still hold most of the knowledge we currently have. We would try to preserve most of it. Some would be lost. Most of the tech we probably wouldn't be able to make anymore. Our priorities would also shift. Instead of living like we do today and developing new tech we would be focused on surviving and rebuilding. Slowly knowledge would be forgotten.

Just look at the fall of Rome. Many things the Romans did were forgotten during the dark ages. It wasn't until a few hundred years ago we "caught back up".

[–]Wennzo 13ポイント14ポイント  (8子コメント)

Do you have more info / sources that expand on this theory?

[–]TheHebrewHammer_ 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

The incas believed before they existed giants roamed the earth. Their god did not like the giants so he killed them all and made humans.

EDIT: Forgot to add. The were only around 100,000 true Incas, the rest of their empire was just conquered territory. It could of been from a civilization before them, or they just didn't want to make note of it.

I should add this about the Spanish. They wanted to learn about the Incas and their past and see how it fit within the Bible. The Incas learned this pretty quick and would let their stories fit to please the Spanish. They also had no concept of time. If you asked them how long ago something happened, they would just say a long time ago.

[–]wolscott 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah the Aliens VS Predator movie...

[–]Increduloud 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Graham Hancock, probably.

[–]hussbag 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Graham Hancock has compiled some fascinating evidence, check out "Fingerprints of the Gods"

[–]Mictlantecuhtli -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

"evidence"

[–]hussbag -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Megalithic structures off the coast of India, Japan, Indonesia, in the Caribbean...they're there, would only make sense to have been built during the last ice age when sea levels were much lower. The truth is out there.

[–]Mictlantecuhtli 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Those are natural rock formations.

[–]l3ol3o 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you are new to this subject I would start with Graham Hancock. Others have expanded on his work. There are also some other great books on the subject before Hancock.

Here is a video of Graham discussing this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuwQi91KQgk

Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings is a great read. It's about old maps that shouldn't be possible. The theory is these maps comes from much older maps that were created by a much more ancient civilization.

There are dozens of books on this topic. Unfortunately you won't learn any of this in School/University and "Ancient Aliens" has been used to discredit this topic.

[–]KingToasty 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's a crazy person theory with literally no backing.

Pyramids look similar because square rocks are relatively easy to stack on top of each other. These sites aren't even REMOTELY the same age- the Pyramids at Giza are upwards of five thousand years old, and these rocks are at best from ~900-1200BCE. Don't make up facts, people will believe them without knowing better.

[–]l3ol3o -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

There are dozens of books written about this theory. Ignorance of the topic doesn't mean lack of evidence.

Don't make up facts? Your trying to date rocks which can't be dated. The Pyramids are ATLEAST 5k years old. This is entirely based on what basically amounts to graffiti inside the Pyramid with the Pharaoh Khufu's name. This is like me tagging the Great Wall of China and three thousands years from now someone finds that and dates the wall to 2016.

What your missing is the astronomical alignments. All over the world many of these sites date back to around 10000bc.

As for the similarities of rock work between SA and Egypt:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRQdUNxaB5jHScyI3D8YpN9dPFTop6z7LHde9284kzA_C3B7dKwMA

Same style of "locking system" http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-bPHAWYuEyDY/VO9aV-shY7I/AAAAAAAAQn8/5GIiqXPWKSs/s1600/054D-Image%2BStone%2BWork.jpg

So before you lecture me about making up facts please research the topic.

[–]Divineo 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

I looked through the comment to find this. It is correct.

[–]Logi_Ca1 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hello, can you elaborate more on this? I have never heard of this earlier civilization before. I did a quick Google search and apparently the predecessors of the Inca were the Wari. Is that the group in question?

[–]throwback2001 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

good sources good sources

[–]cakeerdeath 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I looked through the comment to find this. It is incorrect

Source: Same as yours.

[–]DoubleJesusPower 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

So it was aliens!

[–]l3ol3o 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No no no. It was just an older advanced HUMAN civilization that got wiped out by floods from melting ice at the end of the last ice age.

[–]Valdincan 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Any credible sources for this?

[–]JuryDutySummons 3ポイント4ポイント  (11子コメント)

This isn't Inca work.

Modern archaeology disagrees with you.

The construction of this amazing city, set out according to a very rigorous plan, comprises one of the most spectacular creations of the Inca Empire. It appears to date from the period of the two great Incas, Pachacutec Inca Yupanqui (1438-71) and Tupac Inca Yupanqui (1472-93). http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/274

[–]LaV-Man 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

That is because they attribute the ruins to "the most likely" civilization. While they are aware that it was probably built by a previous civilization they disregard that proposition due to Occam's Razor. Until there is direct evidence of a previous civilization it is dismissed, like hearsay.

[–]JuryDutySummons 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Until there is direct evidence... it is dismissed...

lol right, exactly.

[–]l3ol3o -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Modern Archaeology only uses archaeology to date. They need to combine all the sciences including geology, astrology, hydrology, and other related fields.

Let me give you an example. Fast forward five thousands years. Humans suffered a great disaster in the year 3000 and archaeologists have discovered the ruins of Hoover Dam. So they dig to try and date the site. The find a bunch of crap from the year 3000 so conclude it was built that year.

You can't date rock so they date items found around these sites. This is why the word APPEARS is used in your reply. They have no idea. It's an educated guess. Astronomical alignments are the best way of dating. This is why there is a star map on the Hoover Dam. Most of the old sites were aligned to stars and when you plug them into computer programs they date to around 10000bc or older.

Here is a video of the alignments of Tiwanaku.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFyWDaDUdMM

[–]TepidToiletSeat 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You can't date rock so they date items found around these sites.

LOLWUT

You most assuredly can date rocks. They've been doing it with rock layers and fossils for years.

[–]pab_guy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, clovis people were 15000BC, and some of those artifacts survived to present day, so it seems like there would be more evidence of a more advanced civ.

Also, those extremely straight cuts on those stones in the first pic would be extremely unlikely to look that way after 12000 years, though I don't know what stone they are, so maybe I'm wrong.

[–]Gockcoblins 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Seriously! When you have stones this hard (andesite is a 7 on the hardness scale, diamonds are 10) cut to such precision - so close to perfectly flat surfaces - next to walls constructed of loosely fitting rocks and clay, it is glaringly obvious that two different cultures constructed them. But muh ansesters r smart two!

[–]aycoolsport 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This exactly!! For some interesting reading to expand on this subject, I recommend reading Graham Hancock's "Underworld" and "Fingerprints of the Gods". (for starters)

[–]Wanderer_Takezo 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

I have heard a similar account. Supposedly before westerners arrived in the America's there was a plague or drought or something that caused some 80%-90% to die. When westerners arrived most of the natives were already dead.

[–]Mictlantecuhtli 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

No, that didn't really occur. /u/anthropology_nerd over at /r/AskHistorians has discussed in great detail the epidemics that struck Native Americans prior to and after European contact. In fact, we have a whole section in our FAQ on the topic.

[–]Wile-E-Coyote 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Wasn't that from the Vikings visiting and bringing old world diseases? Took a while to percolate and spread but left the Europeans with a land ripe to take over.

[–]Wanderer_Takezo 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's what I assume, but it could have also been pacific islanders or even africans. There is evidence of several sea faring communities making contact with the Americas, well before the cataloged accounts.

[–]Wile-E-Coyote 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Africans sure, but pacific islanders didn't have the right diseases. Anthropologists have traced most of the deaths to European diseases.

[–]Wanderer_Takezo -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

There is also a theory the greeks made their way to america as well. Although most the accounts seem to stem from platos record of Atlantis. It is thought the land beyond the straight of Gibraltar was in fact south America or the Caribbean.

[–]OpaqueOffset -1ポイント0ポイント  (10子コメント)

My personal theory

It's a very personal theory indeed. A scenario like that would be written into our genetic code.

[–]terlin 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

A scenario like that would be written into our genetic code.

huh?

[–]OpaqueOffset 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We know to a high degree of accuracy how populations moved across the earth, and when.

Along with the archeological record, genetic studies show the lineage of populations.

If there was a global civilization before the last ice age (whatever that means — I'm not sure how a civilization spanning say, central America and Eastern Europe could be called one civilization), and then been largely wiped out, we'd know about it by way of genetics.

This interactive timeline gives a fascinating overview of the spread of humans across the planet:

http://www.bradshawfoundation.com/journey/

[–]deadpear 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

What you would expect to find and compare it too?

[–]OpaqueOffset 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't quite get the question.

But what we can piece together is what we know so far. What I expect has nothing to do with it.

[–]deadpear 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

What, in human DNA, are you seeing that excludes the possibility that a species diverged from a common ancestor and advanced somewhat faster than homo sapiens but were subsequently wiped out and their existing settlements and buildings repurposed? I don't see how that can be excluded outright, but I agree it simply is not currently supported by the evidence we have. However, nothing in that scenario would be written in our code, nor would we know about such a species from just our own code.

[–]OpaqueOffset 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree that your example scenario would leave no trace in our DNA.

The only way that narrative could be true is if 1) that civilization completely vanished without leaving any survivors, 2) that global civilization never interbred with any of our ancestors.

There would have to have been such a utter elimination of human populations (but of just one "civilization"), because the genome project reveals a highly detailed account of the progeny of the rest of us.

But I think I've gotten into the neck of the thread where people are really passionate about ideas because they're nifty, rather than because there's some basis for believing them.

[–]l3ol3o 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

No it's no personal. I got it from Graham Hancock and other authors. There are many many people that believe this.

[–]OpaqueOffset 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Ah. You said it was your personal theory, which I guess I took that literally!

Anyway, it would require a colossal disregard for the evidence on the scale of creationism to elect to believe that. It's just not what happened.

[–]l3ol3o 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I did say it was a personal theory didn't I? My apologies. It is based on established theories though.

The current accepted academic stance on these ancient sites are THEORIES also. The truth is we don't know. Also I suggest you look into this deeper. It's a fascinating mystery. There is just as much evidence for the theory that an ancient civilization existed than the theory that we went from cavemen and started making massive pyramids overnight. One is taught in schools and the other is only known by those looking for it. Both are theories though and both have evidence to support them.

It's also important to note that when talking about ancient sites many people think that rocks can be dated. They can't. How many of these sites are dated is by digging and dating objects found around the site. I used the example early. Lets say most humans get wiped out in the year 30000. In the year 5000 humans rediscover the ruins of the Hoover Dam. They want to date the site so they dig around it and find objects from the year 3000 and conclude the Hoover Dam was build in the year 3000. This is basically what archaeologists do today. All they are proving is these sites are ATLEAST "xxxx" years old.

The big problem is the old theories are built around primarily archaeology. They are missing the very key science of astronomy. The computer programs didn't exist until a few years ago where you could look at the stars thousands of years ago. Now that we can do that we can see what these sites were aligned to and date them accordingly.

One theory incorporates mainly one field of science while the ancient civilization theory is based on many sciences and not subject to academic taboos.

[–]OpaqueOffset 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The thing is, the enthusiasm people have for these alternative theories vastly outstrip any data that might back it up.

They read a few books which are very liberal with unsubstantiated, but highly nifty ideas, and they think that their knowledge outstrips tens of thousands of PhD theses, countless archeological studies, the sciences of geology and archeology, history, etc.

I won't be beguiled by any theory more than another. But I'll certainly have my skeptic's eye on full alert when people talk about nifty ideas (did you know that you swallow 7 spiders in your sleep in your lifetime?). It's just human nature to fall in love with such ideas for reasons other than rigorous evidence.

The current accepted academic stance on these ancient sites are THEORIES also.

This is a vast generalization, and a misuse of the world "theory".

The truth is we don't know.

You say that, but that's one of the little brain tricks people use on themselves to throw out ideas that have a basis in real findings.

Look: given the vast amount of coherent information on the broad brushstrokes of history, it's just highly unlikely that hordes of extremely intelligent, inquisitive, and industrious researchers over the years have been going entirely down the wrong track.

These people are rigorous, empirical thinkers. What they don't know, they know they don't. There are plenty of mysteries without having to add some whole new nifty story about global civilizations which have vanished with no trace but some funky architecture.

[–]8tx 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Feigning ignorance to prevent more slavery and desecrating other temples seems more reasonable than an ancient global civilization.

[–]Pand9 -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

Woah dude.

[–]PeruvianHeadshrinker -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or it could be European bias that the ignorant locales they asked this question of would know something that might only be exclusive knowledge of skilled masons.

Confirmation bias was undoubtedly at play:

Spaniard thinks: "These guys are savages"

Spaniard asks: "How could you have possibly done this?"

Native thinks: "Not sure I understood with this guy said"

Native says: "I don't know what you're talking about"

Spaniard concludes: "It must be aliens"

[–]Sashoke -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The only answer is ancient dwarves.