全 102 件のコメント

[–]websterandy42Cultural Marxism is just Cultural Hegelism flipped on its head 44ポイント45ポイント  (6子コメント)

I’m what is called, in technical terms, a masochist.

Truest words in /r/BadSocialScience history.

[–]TheZizekiest[S] 16ポイント17ポイント  (5子コメント)

Haha whoops. Getting my technical terms confused in sentence two not a good sign!

[–]gamegyro56 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

I’m what is called, in technical terms, a sadist

I'm a masochist, so this really got my hopes up for the rest of your post, but it ended up being a big let down. So...good job, I guess.

[–]interiot 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Muphry's Law: "If you write anything criticizing editing or proofreading, there will be a fault of some kind in what you have written."

[–]SinfulSinnerSinning 15ポイント16ポイント  (2子コメント)

The main claim of this book is that human genetic diversity has increased at a greater rate since some 10,00 years ago.

Found another typo (emphasis mine), so you must be wrong! Guess I'll sub to /r/CoonTown now.

And here:

(South American Explorers)[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_American_Explorers]

[–]TheZizekiest[S] 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's a lot of typos in there. I have this thing where when I finish writing something I don't edit it because I'm sick of the sight of it.

that there have between genetic changes

between should be been

Is another typo. The writing is also atrocious. There are some abysmal sentences in there. It really could have done with an edit. Maybe tomorrow.

[–]babyreadsalot -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

From what I know of studies on ancient DNA compared to modern, modern Europeans have been evolving rapidly since the Neolithic.

[–]SnugglerificThe archaeology of ignorance 33ポイント34ポイント  (2子コメント)

Cochran, Gregory and Henry Harpending. 10,000 Year Explosion. New York: Basic Books, 2010

This is actually a pretty bad book -- I did some posts on it here a while back. I don't know enough about genetics to evaluate the main claim that evolution has sped up over the last 10,000 years, but they don't make the case for it very well and the sourcing is pretty patchy.

I can’t actually access this article, my university has not subscribed to Mankind Quarterly

I doubt many do because it's a white supremacist journal and only "peer-reviewed" in the loosest sense. The outfit that publishes it is a eugenicist think tank set up by Roger Pearson and the editor is Richard Lynn, one of the poster boys for contemporary scientific racism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mankind_Quarterly

[–]TheZizekiest[S] 21ポイント22ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yea I figured it was a terrible book. I just wanted to make my claims as mediated as possible. By outright claiming the book as bad/wrong race realists can fall back on the lactose tolerance and sickle celled anemia claims, but by making a weaker claim and acknowledging that it might have some value gives them (should they ever see this) much less wiggle room.

I also didn't want to call the journal out too much. If I call it an echo chamber race realists would likely call academia an echo chamber, and that discussion goes nowhere. So I was as nice to it as I could be, acknowledged the potential bias and just moved on.

[–]SnugglerificThe archaeology of ignorance 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

This sub is already on the is_cuckbot shitlist, so I imagine it's not going to make much of a difference.

[–]kitcat_kittycat 53ポイント54ポイント  (27子コメント)

it is perfectly designed to convince people who value science/intellectualism but aren’t actually scientists or intellectuals.

Reddit in a nutshell.

[–][削除されました]  (25子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–][削除されました]  (24子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]nota999 22ポイント23ポイント  (0子コメント)

      The hero of badsocialscience

      [–]XRotNRollX 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

      good job, but none of it matters because they'll just claim that all peer-reviewed things are done by DA J00Z and that they censor THE PURE WHITE TRUTH, so that's why nothing is peer-reviewed

      [–]DanglyW 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Well done, good start! You might want to check the sidebar at /r/againsthatesubreddits where we link some other refutations of their sources or further explanations for their misinterpretations of things.

      Also worth looking into David Duke's so called 'PhD'. It's pretty hilarious once you see how he got his 'degree'.

      [–]TotesMessenger 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

      If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)

      [–]TwoFiveOnes 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

      You seem like someone that would be very interested in reading Richard Lewontin. The only "catch" is that some arguments are only fully understandable to a biologist, or more specifically someone versed in genetics. Still, I for example am neither and I find that I can understand his points (also, a lot of them don't refer to biology at all).

      Here are some (superb!) videos:

      What I said about being a biologist doesn't apply here, the lectures are very moderate in this aspect. Oh and spoilers, the answers are "probably not", and "...Yeah, OK", respectively.

      Not to mention his books (of which I've read just a few chapters):

      Keep up the good writing!

      [–]SnapshillBot 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Snapshots:

      1. This Post - 1, 2, 3

      2. Human Biological Diversity resource - 1, 2, 3

      3. Gish Gallop - 1, 2, 3

      4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South... - 1, 2, Error

      5. http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Steve_... - 1, 2, 3

      6. Here is an article, of at least the... - 1, 2, 3

      7. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB11504... - 1, 2, 3

      8. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB12344... - 1, 2, 3

      9. http://infoproc.blogspot.co.nz/2008... - 1, 2, 3

      I am a bot. (Info / Contact)

      [–]thor_moleculez 2ポイント3ポイント  (10子コメント)

      If you haven't read Gould's Mismeasure of Man, do it! The arguments he makes can be eaisly aimed at HBD spouting race realists.

      [–]SnugglerificThe archaeology of ignorance 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Gould has a lot of things of historical interest in there, but the book still has a number of problems. It's dated so it obviously doesn't cover recent advances in areas like genomics and medicine. It also doesn't cover some of the more contemporary racialists like Rushton or Lynn. James R. Flynn writes with greater fluency on psychometrics. Most importantly, though, the section on Morton's skull measurements has been discredited.

      [–]thor_moleculez 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

      If the discrediting you're referring to is Lewis et. al. 2011, Gould may have survived the criticism somewhat intact. Fair point about the contemporary racialists though.

      [–]SnugglerificThe archaeology of ignorance 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Interesting article, thanks. I've never seen this conflict as being particularly important outside of historical interest. People are really missing the point if they think contemporary biological debates hinge on 19th century skull measurements. There's a century-and-a-half's worth of research to consider!

      [–]thor_moleculez 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Well, as the article says racists still earnestly reference Morton to back up white supremacist arguments. Morton is uninteresting from a scientific perspective, but he's a political football that's worth deflating.

      [–]babyreadsalot -4ポイント-3ポイント  (5子コメント)

      If you haven't read Gould's Mismeasure of Man, do it!

      Gould got exposed as an outrageous liar recently. He made up a story about Morton faking the crania data (which all turned out to be accurate when remeasured recently). He was not a reliable source, and was happy to lie to get people to support his ideology.

      [–]thor_moleculez 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

      You're probably referring to this:

      In 2011, a study conducted by six anthropologists reanalyzed Gould's claim that Samuel Morton unconsciously manipulated his skull measurements,[83] and concluded that Gould's analysis was poorly supported and incorrect. They praised Gould for his "staunch opposition to racism" but concluded, "we find that Morton's initial reputation as the objectivist of his era was well-deserved."[84] Ralph Holloway, one of the co-authors of the study, commented, "I just didn't trust Gould. ... I had the feeling that his ideological stance was supreme. When the 1996 version of 'The Mismeasure of Man' came and he never even bothered to mention Michael's study, I just felt he was a charlatan."[85]

      ...which is somewhat mitigated by this:

      The group's paper was reviewed in the journal Nature, which recommended a degree of caution, stating "the critique leaves the majority of Gould's work unscathed," and notes that "because they couldn't measure all the skulls, they do not know whether the average cranial capacities that Morton reported represent his sample accurately."[86] The journal stated that Gould's opposition to racism may have biased his interpretation of Morton's data, but also noted that "Lewis and his colleagues have their own motivations. Several in the group have an association with the University of Pennsylvania, and have an interest in seeing the valuable but understudied skull collection freed from the stigma of bias."[86] The group's paper was also criticized by philosopher of science Michael Weisberg, also of the University of Pennsylvania. Weisberg argues that "most of Gould's arguments against Morton are sound. Although Gould made some errors and overstated his case in a number of places, he provided prima facia evidence, as yet unrefuted, that Morton did indeed mismeasure his skulls in ways that conformed to 19th century racial biases."[87] Biologists and philosophers Jonathan Kaplan, Massimo Pigliucci, and Joshua Alexander Banta also published a critique of the groups's paper, arguing that many of its claims were misleading and the re-measurements were "completely irrelevant to an evaluation of Gould's published analysis." They also argued that the "methods deployed by Morton and Gould were both inappropriate" and that "Gould's statistical analysis of Morton's data is in many ways no better than Morton's own."[88]

      You can say he was wrong about Morton in certain ways, sure, but it's not really clear Gould was an "outrageous liar."

      [–]babyreadsalot -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Well, that's not what the anthropology field thinks of what Gould did. Statistically, enough of Morton's data was sampled to show no malfeasance on his part, the same cannot be said of Gould.

      John Hawks in particular was pretty scathing, and I agree. Essentially, what is posted up in wikipedia is not the consensus opinion. The only real explanation is that Gould knew he was fudging the data. In fact, he was challenged a few times about when he had ever checked Morton's data himself (he never responded to this, and no one can find a record of him ever examining the crania himself) and was also asked for his source story about Morton fudging the data, and again wouldn't respond. Modern work has also backed up the Morton work on cranial capacity.

      Essentially, that wikipedia entry text is a pretty lame attempt to explain away a really obvious lie by a well meaning but dishonest man who thought the ends justified the means. I don't know an anthropologist who came out in support of Gould when that story broke.

      Hawks said:

      Gould systematically selected data from Morton’s tables that tended to inflate the measured volumes of Native American crania. He did so by averaging some group means instead of overall means (although Lewis and colleagues show that Morton himself had used group means for many comparisons, contrary to Gould’s claims), by excluding some small-skulled groups entirely (claiming sample size as a criterion), and by omitting crania that had not been measured in the earlier, seed-based analysis. There is no logical reason for these choices other than selection bias – Gould began with a conclusion about Morton’s unconscious motivations, and worked to confirm that conclusion by selecting some data and omitting contrary data.

      This stuff really ticks me off. I don’t think that Gould’s errors can be written off as “unconscious bias”. Reading back over his 1978 article, I cannot believe that Science published it.

      Also Dienekes comment:

      Lewis et al. pretty much demolish both claims. By remeasuring almost half the original skulls studied by Morton, they show that Morton did not inflate "Caucasian" cranial volumes at the expense of non-"Caucasians". Indeed, most of his measurements deviated only a little from those done today, and, in the few cases where large discrepancies were discovered, they were in the opposite direction of Morton's perceived bias.

      Weisberg:

      Gould's critique of Morton ought to remain as an illustration of implicit bias in science.

      Ralph L. Holloway, an expert on human evolution at Columbia:

      "I just didn’t trust Gould,” he said. “I had the feeling that his ideological stance was supreme. When the 1996 version of ‘The Mismeasure of Man’ came and he never even bothered to mention Michael’s study, I just felt he was a charlatan.”

      Gould's name is currently dirt.

      [–]thor_moleculez 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

      You should read citation 88 from the article I linked, it actually responds to many of the criticisms you mentioned. Again, it's simply not clear from a full assay of opinions that he was an "outrageous liar," or that his "name is dirt"; you can only really say that if you cherry pick the criticisms and ignore the defenses.

      [–]cestlavie22 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      "The lack of references to this text, and the possibility of bias is, however, sufficiently damning as one of these factors likely explains the other."

      Maybe for humanities. Not in real science.

      [–]dgerard 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      (Here is what RationalWiki which is a pretty terrible source, but whatever) has to say about him

      Well well well ... we have bits that don't suck!

      This is likely to be material for Racialism. Which is not very good either (it's rambling, repetitious and ill-structured), but ehh it'll get there.

      [–]babyreadsalot -3ポイント-2ポイント  (4子コメント)

      Moreover, its writer Peter Forst is not an academic,

      Last time I had an argument with him, he had a PhD in anthropology, I'm fairly sure that means he's an academic of some description.

      [–]TheZizekiest[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

      I couldn't find on his website, or the NatGeo website, his qualifications. So if he has a PhD he doesn't heavily advertise it. He definitely studied Anthropology, but to what level I'm not sure.

      [–]babyreadsalot -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Evo and Proud.

      He's well enough known that I knew his name without looking it up

      [–]TheZizekiest[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I know what his blog is, I just can't see anywhere on there that it says he has a PhD.

      He publishes with Harpending, and his blog links to Sailer's. He also often publishes through open psyche, which is open access, free to publish, and "open peer review."

      One journal he publishes in has an impact factor of 0.575. Another journal he publishes in Advances in Anthropology has an impact factor of 0.65. THe best impact factor I could find was 1.74. Honestly, I have friends doing Masters looking to publish in more important journals. He is an academic only in the loosest sense of the term.

      [–]babyreadsalot 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I know him as a publishing anthropologist, although we have had some hilarious disagreements: he has a PhD from Quebec. Lets just say his work on colouring and sexual selection by males made me laugh a bit. But he is pretty well known.