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[–]mEsjycCxNe8y7x -6ポイント-5ポイント-4ポイント 2時間前* (24子コメント)
His comics are pretty good, except for the ones that delve into durr hurr STEM is the only valuable pursuit humanities in schools are garbage
[–]MrWeiner 35ポイント36ポイント37ポイント 1時間前 (23子コメント)
Seriously, where the fuck are you getting this? I'm a goddamn Lit BA, and I wish the people in my community had some pride. The book I've most recommended this year is Beryl Markham's "West With the Night." Here's my, clearly humanities-hating, reading list for 2015:
Jan 1 - The Wal-Mart Effect (Fishman)
Jan 7 - The Island at the Center of the World (Shorto)
Jan 8 - The Iron Heel (London)
Jan 9 - The Splendid Outcast (Markham)
Jan 10 - Now I know (Lewis)
Jan 11 - The Copernicus Complex (Scharf)
Jan 12 - The Wonderful Visit (Wells)
Jan 13 - Lord Jim (Conrad)
Jan 14 - The Tao is Silent (Smullyan)
Jan 15 - The Island of Doctor Moreau (Wells)
Jan 16 - The Devil in the White City (Larson)
Jan 19 - The Swiss Family Robinson (Wyss)
Jan 21 - Robin Hanson Manuscript(Hanson)
Jan 21 - A Children’s Garden of Verses (Stevenson)
Jan 22 - Johnny Got His Gun (Trumbo)
Jan 23 - Mars Curiosity Rover (Manning, Simon)
Jan 25 - Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl (Jacobs)
Jan 26 - Ernest Hemingway Selected Letters 1917-1961 (Ed. Baker)
Jan 27 - Mathematics and Humor (Paulos)
Jan 31 - The Rush (Dolnick)
Feb 1 - The Perfect Storm (Junger)
Feb 2 - The Wizards Stay Up Late (Hafner, Lyon)
Feb 3 - Geek Physics (Allain)
Feb 4 - Rocketship Galileo (Heinlein)
Feb 7 - Heidi (Spyri)
Feb 9 - The Life and Times of Po Chu-I (Trans. Waley)
Feb 9 - My Early Life (Churchill)
Feb 14 - The Beak of the Finch (Weiner)
Feb 16 - Space Cadet (Heinlein)
Feb 18 - What the Dormouse Said (Markoff)
Feb 19 - The Bolter (Osborne)
Feb 20 - What Should We Be Worried About? (Ed. Brockman)
Feb 23 - The Story of My Life (Keller)
Feb 26 - Destined to Witness (Massaquoi)
Feb 26 - The New Jim Crow (Alexander)
Feb 28 - Tales of Soldiers and Civilians, and Other Stories (Bierce)
Mar 1 - In Defense of Flogging (Moskos)
Mar 2 - Red Planet (Heinlein)
Mar 8 - The British Sailor (Kemp)
Mar 9 - Political Order and Political Decay (Fukuyama)
Mar 17 - The Son Also Rises (Clarke)
Mar 18 - Between Planets (Heinlein)
Mar 20 - Consider the Fork (Wilson)
Mar 26 - The Wrong Stuff (Smith)
Mar 27 - The Puppet Masters (Heinlein)
Mar 27 - Huck’s Raft (Mintz)
Mar 28 - The Knowledge (Dartnell)
Mar 29 - Escape from Sobibor (Rashke)
April 3 - The Island of Reality (Gleiser)
April 5 - The Rolling Stones (Heinlein)
April 8 - Dead Wake (Larson)
April 8 - Lost Prophet, The Life and Times of Bayard Rustin (D’Emilio)
April 10 - The Residence (Brower)
April 12 - Ironweed (Kennedy)
April 13 - Dr. Tatiana’s Sex Advice to All Creation (Judson)
April 14 - Skeletons on the Zahara (King)
April 15 - Starman Jones (Heinlein)
April 16 - The Personalized Medicine Revolution (Cullis)
April 20 - The Philadelphia Chromosome (Wapner)
April 21 - The Starbeast (Heinlein)
April 22 - Mission to Mars (Aldrin)
April 25 - The Language of Life (Collins)
April 27 - Tunnel in the Sky (Heinlein)
April 28 - Asteroid Mining 101 (Lewis)
May 1 - Chinese Poems (trans. Waley)
May 2 - Thinking, Fast and Slow (Kahnemann)
May 3 - Uncommon Carrier (McPhee)
May 6 - Double Star (Heinlein)
May 9 - The Wright Brothers (McCullough)
May 12 - Waterloo (Cornwall)
May 19 - Reagan (Brands)
May 19 - The Selected Poems of T’ao Ch’ien (Trans. Hinton)
May 21 - Time for the Stars (Heinlein)
May 22 - The Arsenal of Democracy (Berkrot)
May 22 - The Wilderness World of John Muir (ed. Teale)
May 25 - The Door Into Summer (Heinlein)
May 27 - Philosophy of Law (Marmor)
May 28 - Have Space Suit - Will Travel (Heinlein)
May 29 - Buried in the Sky (Zuckerman, Padoan)
June 5 - The Autobiography of GK Chesterton
June 11 - Letters from a Stoic (Seneca)
June 20 - Action Philosophers (Van Lente, Dunlavey)
June 20 - The Power Broker (Caro)
June 25 - Podkayne of Mars (Heinlein)
June 30 - Logicomix (Doxiadis, Papadimitrou)
July 1 - Goebbels: A Biography (Longerich)
July 3 - Glory Road (Heinlein)
July 7 - Project Plowshare (Kaufman)
July 13 - The Red Flag (Priestland)
July 13 - The Railway Children (Nesbit)
July 14 - The Shepherd’s Life (Rebanks)
July 15 - Farnham’s Freehold (Heinlein)
July 15 - The War That Forged a Nation (McPherson)
July 16 - Between the World and Me (Coates)
July 22 - I Will Fear No Evil (Heinlein)
July 22 - Moral Imagination (Bromwich)
July 24 - One Man Against the World (Weiner)
July 27 - Milestones to Disaster (Churchill)
July 28 - Ragtime (Doctorow)
July 30 - Seven Years in Tibet (Harrer)
July 30 - A Guide To the Good Life (Irvine)
Aug 1 - Alone (Churchill)
Aug 4 - A Man in Full (Wolfe)
Aug 5 - Black Like Me (Griffin)
Aug 8 - The Grand Alliance (Churchill)
Aug 8 - Fabricated (Lipson)
Aug 10 - A Primate’s Memoir (Sapolsky)
Aug 12 - Skunkworks (Rich)
Aug 13 - Cell and Organ Printing (ed. Ringeisen, Spargo, Wu)
Aug 15 - Triumph and Tragedy (Churchill)
Aug 15 - Fairy Gold (Rhys)
Aug 16 - A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur’s Court (Twain)
Aug 19 - Isaac’s Storm (Larson)
My lawn. Get thee off it.
[–]lilpetunia 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 12分前 (0子コメント)
Damn, that's a lot of Heinlein.
[+]mEsjycCxNe8y7x スコアが基準値未満のコメント-6ポイント-5ポイント-4ポイント 1時間前 (21子コメント)
Lol. I'm getting it from the various comics where you make those jokes, pal. I'd dig them up for you if I wasn't on mobile, though you surely know the ones I'm talking about.
[–]MrWeiner 20ポイント21ポイント22ポイント 1時間前 (8子コメント)
Careful. If you clutch those pearls much harder they might break.
[–]mEsjycCxNe8y7x -4ポイント-3ポイント-2ポイント 1時間前 (7子コメント)
Is that what you think I'm doing?
Could you explain this joke for me? Because I must not have gotten it--since you have a BA in Lit and read a lot of non-STEM books, you would never make a "humanities are bullshit"-type joke, right?
[–]MrWeiner 11ポイント12ポイント13ポイント 1時間前 (6子コメント)
I believe you're conflating the academic experience of learning non-STEM stuff with actually reading non-STEM stuff. I think you can claim the way lit theory is taught is generally bullshit without believing the humanities as a life pursuit (for instance, writing books and comics for a living) is all bullshit.
[–]FriendlyCommie 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 1時間前 (3子コメント)
I hate the way my classes are taught but I love the subject. I can relate.
[–]MrWeiner 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 1時間前 (2子コメント)
Bingo. Hamlet reads just fine without learning some bullshit Freud made up about it, thank you very much.
[–]Suddenly_Elmo 2ポイント3ポイント4ポイント 45分前* (0子コメント)
But the study of literature necessitates critical and theoretical discussion of literature, surely? "Reading books" is not a subject. Do you think that all lit theory is terrible and bad or just that it's taught in the wrong way?
Equally sociology and philosophy are not like arts subjects, where you can enjoy the object of study - films, books, whatever - without theorising about them. When you read Wittgenstein or Weber you are doing philosophy and sociology. So the same criticism doesn't really apply.
I'll certainly take you at your word that you don't think these subjects are nonsense and just dislike the teaching, but I don't honestly think that's what any reasonable person would take from this comic. Why would someone be happy to be taking an exam in a subject that's been taught horribly? I find it very hard to read it any other way than "you can just bullshit your way through these subjects without preparing because it's all vague made up nonsense anyway". And it's fine to make that joke - although there are some morons who genuinely believe that - but it's not the same joke you say you're making.
[–]mEsjycCxNe8y7x 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 50分前 (0子コメント)
What did Freud say about Hamlet, again?
[–]mEsjycCxNe8y7x -1ポイント0ポイント1ポイント 28分前* (0子コメント)
So what was the joke in the comic, again? That humanities in education are all bullshit, or what?
And thanks for the tweet about me, ooo la la
[–]TheInsecureGoat 5ポイント6ポイント7ポイント 1時間前 (11子コメント)
I don't think those would necessarily reflect his views. When a character says something it doesn't mean that the author agrees with it.
Edit: obviously it would help for you to point some out.
[–]mEsjycCxNe8y7x 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間前 (10子コメント)
A recent one. I guess someone might say that the joke is simply the inversion of the exam nightmare trope, but that doesn't really explain what seems to be a few pretty cheap potshots. So I'm confused as to what we're supposed to laugh at here, if not that part. Especially given the extra panel. Maybe that someone thinks that theory et al is bullshit, so the trope inversion is funny? Maybe that people might tend to write confident bullshit in classes like that? I don't know. Either way, humanities isn't exactly respected here, which is different from his other comics, where-in the joke is more focused on the person.
You'll note that I didn't say shit about him personally, which makes his defense--that he would never make those jokes since he has a Lit BA and reads a lot of nonSTEM books--strange, if not grasping.
[–]pompouspug[S] 3ポイント4ポイント5ポイント 1時間前 (9子コメント)
I think there is a noticable difference between taking a lighthearted jab at something and
durr hurr STEM is the only valuable pursuit
I mean, maybe you're just taking that a bit too seriously since you are probably in that field?
[–]mEsjycCxNe8y7x 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 1時間前 (8子コメント)
You're right, I shouldn't have conflated the whole thought. But the joke reflects a pretty proSTEM only attitude towards the humanities.
[–]pompouspug[S] 1ポイント2ポイント3ポイント 52分前 (3子コメント)
You know, this isn't really a fight between humanities and STEM. Reddit loves to jerk on that, but (I can only judge from my experience here) STEM-people in the real world don't really think of humanities as lesser subjects.
I work in STEM and everybody there makes jokes about everybody else. We basically just hate everyone.
Mathematicians and theoretical physicists are often the butt of "DAE 99% USELESS" jokes, while more practical stuff (engineering, CS, biology) are often jokingly reduced to "nice how you research/do stuff you don't really understand".
If you actually ask people in STEM what they think of sociology, history, literary, theology etc. students, you will find that most people (there are always assholes) think it's important that these subjects exist and that humanity delves into these subjects.
[–]mEsjycCxNe8y7x 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 40分前 (2子コメント)
Again, I shouldn't have made that leap, like I said. But the joke in the comic linked is exactly the same one those Reddit jerks make. "You can just bullshit your way through the subject." You see something that looks pro-STEM circlejerk, reads pro-STEM circlejerk, smells pro-STEM circlejerk, you might think it's more pro-STEM circlejerk. I guess it's just anti-humanities circlejerk. But that's just as stupid.
[–]pompouspug[S] 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 22分前 (1子コメント)
Just because an anti-humanities circlejerk exists doesn't mean that every joke at the expense of humanities is part of that circlejerk, even if it's a parody of the same stereotype.
Example: If a US-American makes a stereotypical joke about how americans are all uncultured and fat then that doesn't necessarily mean he agrees with that stereotype. Such is the nature of self-deprecating humor.
[–]Roxinos 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 58分前 (3子コメント)
I actually think it reflects more on your perception of value than it does on Mr. Weiner's. Even if Zach is saying that the humanities are easier than the STEM fields (which he isn't), that doesn't mean that he's saying the STEM fields are better. It's only "pretty pro-STEM" if he's both stating that they're easier than STEM fields and that difficulty of a field directly corresponds to its value.
And I'm pretty fucking sure that he's not saying either of those things.
[–]mEsjycCxNe8y7x 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 48分前* (2子コメント)
What does it say about my perception of value?
He's anti-humanities in education, which is clear from the comic. Usually the next thing people say is that they're pro STEM in education. I made that leap myself, since I've read a lot of his other comics. Maybe that's not fair. But when you make the exact same joke as the kind of person who would say something like only STEM stuff is valuable, and when you share the exact same attitude towards humanities in education as that person, it's easy to think someone is a part of that pro-STEM only group. In that same thread he says even more stereotypical anti-humanities stuff, to the point where he's operating against lazy stereotype. I'm not sure what theory education he got for that BA, but it must've been much worse than mine.
[–]Roxinos 0ポイント1ポイント2ポイント 43分前 (1子コメント)
If you read what he said and understood "I don't think humanities should be taught" then let me be clear here that you completely misunderstood him. Zach is not saying and has never said that humanities is less valuable than STEM fields, nor has he suggested that it should not be taught in schools.
What he has said is that the way the humanities are taught in schools is utter bullshit. There is a very marked difference between the two and you are reading way too much into it especially considering you have spoken directly to him and he has told you blatantly that you're being fucking ridiculous.
π Rendered by PID 20810 on app-190 at 2015-08-19 17:01:21.972969+00:00 running e7ae411 country code: JP.
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