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Changes in /r/Europe moderation (self.europe)

EnglandRaerth[M] が 投稿 - stickied post

There has been a lot of disagreement and anger with how certain topics and issues in the subreddit have been moderated. We're looking at how best to address this and will be making some changes.

End of the immigration megathreads

Immigration topics will be allowed as regular topics but please note these following two guidelines:

Please refrain from Agenda Pushing: Defined as an account which frequently and consistently submits articles on one subject, especially a controversial one.

Please refrain from Topic Flooding: If the front page contains numerous articles on one topic, please do not post any more unless it significantly adds to the conversation.

These are not firm rules which lead to an immediate ban if broken, but guidelines by which we reserve the right to use our mod tools if we feel something is getting out of hand.

Bans and Shadowbans

We feel the use of automoderator shadowbans has got out of hand. We will be immediately removing all shadowbans and using them more sparingly in the future.

We will also be removing over 1000 regular subreddit bans which were overzealous.

Comment Moderation

Racism and personal attacks on redditors are still banned, but we will be relaxing the moderation of people engaging in conversation that is critical without being racist.

We will also stop removing comments that criticise the mod team directly. This is unconstructive. Likewise Meta-threads about the subreddit are also allowed from the community.

Change in mods

We will shortly be recruiting a substantial number of new mods. We would like a good mix of people who are regular participants in /r/Europe, even if these people may have been critical of the mod team in the past. A history of modding a subreddit is not essential, but may be helpful.

This will be an ongoing process, and we welcome your feedback.

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トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]Fuck the EU.Arathian 92ポイント93ポイント  (8子コメント)

End of the immigration megathreads

YES

Please refrain from Agenda Pushing: Defined as an account which frequently and consistently submits articles on one subject, especially a controversial one.

Please refrain from Topic Flooding: If the front page contains numerous articles on one topic, please do not post any more unless it significantly adds to the conversation.

Very good, nobody likes flooding anyway.

We feel the use of automoderator shadowbans has got out of hand. We will be immediately removing all shadowbans and using them more sparingly in the future. We will also be removing over 1000 regular subreddit bans which were overzealous.

I trust that these were thought through. If there are some legit trolls unbanned, they will be swiftly banned again anyway.

Racism and personal attacks on redditors are still banned, but we will be relaxing the moderation of people engaging in conversation that is critical without being racist.

Thank fuck.

We will also stop removing comments that criticise the mod team directly. This is unconstructive. Likewise Meta-threads about the subreddit are also allowed from the community.

THANK.FUCK.

Great changes guys. Will we have a moderator Q&A now that the new changes are through?

[–]audi alteram partemIvashkin[M] 23ポイント24ポイント  (3子コメント)

i trust that these were throught through. If there are some legit trolls unbanned, they will be swiftly banned again anyway.

Essentially the list was unmanageable. We're going to shift to a different format which allows for comments (such as who made the ban and why) which will allow us to make limited use of the tool again. As it was, not damn clue why at least half of them were on the list.

Edit: I've used them hundreds of times before, but I've really grown to dislike automod shadowbans. They are so easy, but often get abused.

[–]This-Is-My-Truth [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

When are you going to stop abusing automod to shadowban people for expressing incorrect opinions over on /r/ukpolitics, Ivashkin?

[–]DrySkinAndLips [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I wish they'd stop banning UKIP supporters and Islamoskeptics over there. It was getting to be a decent sub up until the election when they started cracking down on them.

It's funny because r/unitedkingdom had already mass-exiled UKIP supporters to r/ukpolitics as it was a much smaller, less mainstream sub where they could still control them and these users, though they complained were happy enough with the situation but then as soon as election season got hot, it was ban-ban-ban. Now only r/ukipparty is safe.

They could at least advertise uncensored alternative subs in sidebar like r/gbpol But then all these subreddits have inter-connected mods and the like the control they exert on the site.

[–]audi alteram partemIvashkin [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Already have. I won't deny using and abusing them, but over the last few months I've started to see things where someone would be in the list (I'd see them in the spam queue) and I couldn't remember why they where there. There were still people who were gleefully posting away about how Muslims were subhuman savages or how there was a consented effort to destroy the superior white race, but they should have been banned rather the shadowbanned.

So, I'll still use shadowbans for cases where it's clear someone is evading a ban, or for spam, or for specific words or phrases. But they won't be my go-to for dealing with users who break rules.

[–]European UnionSpAn12[M] 15ポイント16ポイント  (3子コメント)

Great changes guys. Will we have a moderator Q&A now that the new changes are through?

Yes. You can query the mods and the moderation practices at any time.

[–]United KingdomNeversetinstone 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Could I ask if the mod team will be taking a look at the current community rules and guidelines. Some of them are very vague and open to widely differing interpretations in my opinion.

[–]European UnionSpAn12[M] 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

We do have plans to look at the community rules and guidelines for the very reason you describe.

[–]pies n gravySlyRatchet[M] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

We've already got a draft change ready. Just need to perfect it and go through the motions

[–]United KingdomGooseSpringsteen92 32ポイント33ポイント  (19子コメント)

Just wanted to say that I'm extremely glad to see the changes that are being made and I look forward to the future :)!

However, I hope that there may be some sort of disciplinary action taken against some of the more overzealous actions we've seen recently.

I'm not necessarily wishing for anybody to lose their position but it was a joke seeing mods deleting the comments of other mods etc and I think there ought to be some sort of calling to account in regards to this kind of unilateral action because it doesn't look good for this sub when the people who should be curating the place are instead seemingly indulging in their own personal agendas.

[–]AuntieJoJo 5ポイント6ポイント  (8子コメント)

I've been looking at the sidebar where the mods are listed for some hours now.

One is missing, it seems.

Relevant to your comment? Not sure, could be. I suspect so.

[–]Pretend-SwedeScanianMoose 15ポイント16ポイント  (7子コメント)

TheSkyNet left the team today.

[–]The NetherlandsPhalanx300 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

He is the mod which got drunk and starting banning people and closing down the sub, seems the logical outcome has occured.

[–]Indiaperseus0807 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't think he was actually doing any of that, just pretending.

[–]AuntieJoJo 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

It was for the best. He would have hated this mata thread anyway.

[–]United KingdomGooseSpringsteen92 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Ah fair enough this is interesting but I'd be very curious to (in the spirit of openness) know exactly what we were seeing when all these deletions were being made :/.

[–]European UnionSpAn12[M] 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

There were disagreements within the mod team over what posts should and should not be allowed.

The moderation policy has been clarified as set out in the above statement.

[–]United KingdomGooseSpringsteen92 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

But I mean they were removing the posts of other mods as part of their "disagreement" isn't that a red line of some kind? Surely that goes beyond a simple disagreement into something more combative?

コメントをもっと表示する (10 返事)

    [–]European UnionSpAn12[M] 51ポイント52ポイント  (11子コメント)

    [deleted]

    [–]EnglandRaerth[S,M] 57ポイント58ポイント  (4子コメント)

    USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST

    [–]DenmarkKaptajnKaffe 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Teamliquid user I presume?

    I miss the good old times on that board

    [–]Swedenrabbitlion 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The "User was banned for this post" has been used on at least 4chan and somethingawful long before teamliquid was created, and probably on a ton of other sites.

    コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

      [–]Fuck the EU.Arathian 21ポイント22ポイント  (0子コメント)

      [comrade sent to reeducation camp]

      [–]lost___soul 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

      [deleted]

      [–]European Uniongagatron 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

      [deleted]

      コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

        [–]Opressed heterosexual conservative Russian minorityParavin 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

        So can I be a mod? I don't know what I'd have to do, but if you send me pictures of cats in hats I'd moderate for that.

        [–]with an EU Passportmust_warn_others 29ポイント30ポイント  (13子コメント)

        First.

        But seriously I'm happy to see the mods are actively responding to criticism from the community.

        Also I don't think you guys should shy away from "experimenting" a little bit. Yes, the "immigrant megathread" experiment didn't go great but that should not discourage you from utilizing creative and/or unorthodox methods in the future.

        [–]Fuck the EU.Arathian 19ポイント20ポイント  (7子コメント)

        Canadians aren't real people.

        [–]ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐSuburbanturnip 17ポイント18ポイント  (6子コメント)

        pay debts

        [–]Fuck the EU.Arathian 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Ay ya cunt, ill fok u up real gud, fite me 1v1, no items, final destination.

        [–]Belgiumbal 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

        Who left Liz's prison doors open?

        [–]ɐıןɐɹʇsnɐSuburbanturnip 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Help mods! I'm being ethnically oppressed! Ban all news about Australia! /s

        [–]European UnionSpAn12[M] 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Help mods!

        Even if I help you the Australian wildlife will get you soon enough anyway.

        Lost cause.

        [–]Lower Silesiacrouchingtiger 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Wait, is that a Prisoner Cell Block H reference?

        [–]50% Sardinia 50% PiedmontElvishCopter [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        There you go.

        [–]HOLY SHIT WE FINALLY GOT A FLAG65117520180 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

        "Actively"

        They fucked around for a month before dissent became too overwhelming.

        Fucking Christ, my ISP has faster response times than /r/europe's mods

        [–]AustriaSaltySolomon 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Ping

        [–]United States of AmericaWispborne [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        Because the internet never knee-jerks and then settles down or even pulls a 180, right?

        [–]CroatiaBallander 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Is this Youtube?

        EDIT: Originally, the comment just said "First". It was edited since then.

        [–]Indifference is the best kind of tolerance (/s)Parabellum8g 18ポイント19ポイント  (4子コメント)

        Excellent solution: this is what we needed weeks back ago when the megatopics regarding immigration began! It ensures a healthy distribution of subjects across this subreddit, without too much particular attention to one certain thing. I applaud the mods for making this correct move: well done. It also removes this topic out of the realm of extremism in which it was kind of (forcefully) pushed in the last few weeks.

        edit: About the change in mods, why did /u/TheSkyNet leave the moderator team? I only just noticed.

        [–]BelgiumMadAce [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

        It ensures a healthy distribution of subjects across this subreddit

        That's simply not true. The moderators will have to constantly manage the frontpage to keep it from being flooded and there will be no discussion in the comment sections of these submissions. Anything that goes against the grain will be downvoted.

        There's no need to keep up appearances when the situation is blatantly obvious.

        [–]Indifference is the best kind of tolerance (/s)Parabellum8g [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

        Nothing is obvious, save what you perceive that way. Of course the guidelines above could be made more stringent for moderator comfort. For example: a minimum requirement of 200 link karma and an account being 6 months or older in order to post a topic, to prevent 'throw away accounts' being used to still push a collective agenda.

        A healthy distribution of subjects means that issues that are very alive in society should get the chance to be debated. That chance was taken away the past few weeks concerning this topic (and no, don't you dare argue that the hated megaposts allowed for discourse!) and subsequently restored today. For me, today, reason has prevailed.

        And really, given the limited resources that Europe has to shelter just about the entire impovirished part of the world, I understand that pro-immigration ideas are pretty impopular. A pro immigration stance is impopular for good reason, although it indeed shouldn't result in mass downvoting. Then again, as I argued elsewhere in this post, this is the result of the meta failure of the downvote/upvote system.

        [–]BelgiumMadAce [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

        The megathreads allowed for as much discourse as all threads dealing with non-whites: None whatsoever. The "consensus" is clear and those who go against the grain are downvoted. This happened in the past and will continue in the future.

        given the limited resources that Europe has to shelter just about the entire impovirished part of the world

        That's hyperbole bordering on mad hysteria. Europe is sheltering about 5% of the world's refugees, IIRC. That's not even remotely close to "the entire impoverished part of the world", no matter how you look at it.

        Your hysteria is very telling.

        A pro immigration stance is impopular for good reason

        No.

        it indeed shouldn't result in mass downvoting

        It was, it is, and it will.

        [–]Indifference is the best kind of tolerance (/s)Parabellum8g [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        Jesus Christ man, don't be so extremely salty about it. Of course the 'entire impoverished part of the world' is a hyperbole: a means for me to express that I believe we shouldn't use our limited resources to heal the entire world. Europe is still recovering from the largest and most widespread economic crisis of the past 80 years: we just cannot bring in everyone and turn Europe into a safe haven for each and all.

        No, our focus should be on stabilizing our backyard, which includes northern Africa and Syria. Attack the problem at its root, instead of dealing with the symptomes. Our door should always be open to people in need of shelter, but not to those that seek economic opportunity. To the latter I am quite clear: they have nothing to look for here.

        This is no 'hysteria' but a rather cold appreciation of what we can do as of 2015, and what we can't. I know that ideology can make you think otherwise - and think that everything is possible. At some point in time a sobering thought will sink in that not all is possible, nor desirable in the long term. Call me a pragmatic cynic, but I stay far away from anything that is set in stone, including all the various -isms out there.

        [–]GogoGGK 12ポイント13ポイント  (4子コメント)

        Thanks Merkel...

        [–]The 4th Reich... I mean European Union.Kaiser_Angela_Merkel 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

        you're welcome

        [–]toppled maltaherr_wildow 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

        meh, 0 days

        [–]The 4th Reich... I mean European Union.Kaiser_Angela_Merkel -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

        damn

        you got me. :D

        No euromonies for you!

        [–]AuntieJoJo 19ポイント20ポイント  (21子コメント)

        Hallelujah

        Don't know what happened, but just fricking hallelujah, reading this is like looking at a brand new world! Seriously, thank you.

        I feel we, the users, should also start to help out more and an obvious way to do that would probably be by actively reporting stuff that clearly breaks the rules. With these new rules it could, at some point, be fruitful to have a discussion about that specifically, where the mods could clarify what it is that they specifically want reported.

        For now I'm just really thankful. These past few weeks in this sub have been a nightmare in many ways.

        I feel this highly encourages me to participate and comment more, as I don't need to constantly fear that all my typing will be in vain and just deleted within minutes.

        ps. This comment better not be deleted when I come back tomorrow..

        [–]ScotlandSkuld[M] 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I feel we, the users, should also start to help out more and an obvious way to do that would probably be by actively reporting stuff that clearly breaks the rules.

        That'd be smashing, we rely on many pairs of eyes for that and it helps a lot :)

        [–]pies n gravySlyRatchet[M] 12ポイント13ポイント  (16子コメント)

        With these new rules it could, at some point, be fruitful to have a discussion about that specifically, where the mods could clarify what it is that they specifically want reported.

        Just thought I'd say, if you suspect that something breaks a rule, don't sit on the fence thinking 'should I report it? shouldn't I report it?' just report it. It flags it up for moderator attention and we'll consult the rule book and make sure everything is done properly. I'd rather have loads of reports, even if a lot of them are wrong, then allow things which should be removed to slip through the net because nobody reported them.

        [–]DrySkinAndLips 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

        I reported u/dclauzel for breaking the rule about saying different cultures are incompatible as he said Libyans were not compatible with Malians and so they could not accommodate them as refugees.

        I was banned for being a troublemaker, not him for breaking a rule. Will I be getting unbanned and will you be removing this rule or banning dclauzel?

        [–]pies n gravySlyRatchet[M] 5ポイント6ポイント  (7子コメント)

        If you read some of our other replies in this thread you can see that the cultural relativism section of the racism rule has been dropped.

        [–]Romaniarraadduurr [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

        Can we have for a while a megathread(i know how it sounds) for mod criticism or even comunity management cryiicism, for last couple of weeks any attempt of communication was abruptly terminated(if you know what i mean) and I belive some of us would like to debate and even propose solutions for a better moderation.

        [–]pies n gravySlyRatchet [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

        There's two suggestions going on in the mod back room which we pivot between wanting to implement and then completely losing interesting in either.

        • Either have a thread every two weeks for all things mod related. It can basically be an AMA, or kind of like a version of Prime Minister's Questions in the UK :P

        • A separate subreddit for constant meta discussion of /r/europe

        No idea if either of these are good ideas

        [–]MoraviaGNeps [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        I think First Minister's Questions-like AMA would be the best and time tested way to go about this. The mods would obligate themselves to answer say 5 most upvoted questions every two weeks, and everyone would be happy.

        コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

          [–]AuntieJoJo 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Aye aye, captain. Will do.

          [–]EUkatarn86 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

          At least in my experience I usually stay on the fence because the reasons to report given by the "report" button fortunately aren't that common :

          spam
vote manipulation
personal information
sexualizing minors
breaking reddit

          And while there's always:

          other (max 100 character)

          ; things like personal attacks, obvious derailings of threads, low quality post or similar issues never seem as important as "sexualizing minors", so I end up not bothering the mods.

          [–]Greecegschizas[M] 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

          Some explanation on what the report reasons currently mean (at least until reddit implements custom report reasons for each subreddit):

          • spam: Although this should be clear on its own, it doesn't appear to be so. This is supposed to be used if somebody for example advertises their own site. If it's a comment, especially without a link, this is probably not the option you want to use. The only time it's acceptable is if the user is copy-pasting the same comment all over the place.
          • vote manipulation: I'm not even sure how you can tell. But in general, it means that this user appears to have a lot of upvotes within seconds of making a comment/submission. I don't think it's possible to tell, if you are an end user (and are not working at reddit inc.).
          • personal information: doxxing. If you see someone giving out some user's real name, their email, their IP address, their physical address, etc.
          • sexualizing minors: This means child pornography.

          • breaking reddit: Attempts to break/hack reddit's code. For example some comment that is too long in some way and makes reddit crash. I have never seen any use for that.

          • other: This is almost always the correct choice. Write a short description of what rule you think this comment is breaking (e.g. personal attacks, meme/low quality post etc.)

          To be honest, I don't think that the default 5 report reasons that reddit gives are really all that useful.

          [–]Englandsyuk 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Vote Manipulation - maybe this is where someone has seen the post linked to from elsewhere (another sub, twitter) with an invitation to influence it.

          [–]audi alteram partemIvashkin[M] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I've taken it to mean this.

          [–]BG Roses & Yoghurtgsefcgs [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          breaking reddit

          Isn't this one for when a user is breaking the rules under the reddiquette? Yeah, I mean the other options cover some of it, but I thought this one was added as a broad option that covers the other rules of the reddiquette, which are not already covered in the default options of the report menu.

          [–]audi alteram partemIvashkin[M] 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Just enter something basic and descriptive. We're not always going to agree that action should be taken, but it alerts us to things which may be a problem down the line at the very least.

          [–]European UnionSpAn12[M] 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Sorry we didn't respond to your queries over the last couple of days - we were trying to get these changes just right.

          [–]AuntieJoJo 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

          No worries, mate. You did good.

          [–]Indiaperseus0807 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Reddit would be a much better place if users reported posts more, there's only so much mods can do.

          For the uninformed, reporting posts essentially just pushes it to the modqueue, so the mods can see it and take any action they think is necessary.

          [–]European Unionacolytee 13ポイント14ポイント  (2子コメント)

          I'm freeee!

          Raerth for Chancellor!

          [–]European UnionReilly616 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I have nothing to say other than that these are very sensible policy revisions. For what it's worth, I welcome them.

          [–]WalesRhy_T 19ポイント20ポイント  (13子コメント)

          Good to see but im not sure recruiting a "substantial" amount of new mods will mean much unless it's combined with certain current mods losing their positions.

          The sheer stupidity of the megathread, amount of trigger happy deletions/shadowbans and incompetence to let the situation drag on for several weeks should prove that certain people aren't fit to be moderators.

          [–]United Kingdomoccasionallyrude 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Good to see but im not sure recruiting a "substantial" amount of new mods will mean much unless it's combined with certain current mods losing their positions.

          Check the list of moderators... One fewer than there were yesterday.

          [–]Pretend-SwedeScanianMoose 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

          That was TheSkyNet. He left today.

          [–]European Unionacolytee 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

          unless it's combined with certain current mods losing their positions.

          Already happening.

          [–]Indiaperseus0807 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

          Good to see but im not sure recruiting a "substantial" amount of new mods will mean much unless it's combined with certain current mods losing their positions.

          I believe this is because the growth is quite unsustainable for the number of mods there are, and also time zones.

          [–]United States of Americaexecutivemonkey 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

          also time zones

          Once again, Europe needs us.

          [–]pies n gravySlyRatchet[M] 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

          Basically yeah. E.g. the megathread wasn't being updated because we were getting hundreds of stories per thread posted to it which would take hours of work to properly curate per day. It worked for a couple of days but when your mod team consists of ten odd people, there's just not gonna be the man power to spend a couple of hours every day on a very arduous task like that.

          So the lack of man power leads puts pressure on everything which leads to poor management.

          [–]United KingdomNeversetinstone 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Perhaps that could be noted as a question to be asked before future experimental moderation actions are implemented - "will this work with what we have?"

          [–]wuts 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

          You didn't need to update the main post in the megathread. You were trying to over do it.

          All you needed was to post 1 megathread a day and you could even get automoderator to do that. Then just let it be and delete any meta stuff on sight.

          It could have worked really well. I enjoyed the subreddit more in the last couple of weeks. It was refreshing and fun to see other topics instead of the far-right using the sub to promote their anti-immigration agenda. It was obvious to everyone they were brigading the sub and now they'll start again.

          What about limiting threads about immigration to monday - wednesday or something like that. I've seen a lot of subs do that and it works really well.

          [–]audi alteram partemIvashkin[M] 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

          It's not a bad idea, we need to have a round-table and go over some ideas of this nature.

          [–]auntieaggie [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

          Please don't give that guy a mod job. His ideas are awful and similar to what got us in this mess in the first place.

          [–]wuts 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Thanks. I'm happy to provide more ideas to try to make the sub the best it can be and would love to join the mod team too.

          コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

            [–]Hungarycrysis000 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

            You mean Mégathread?

            [–]SneakySnakeX [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            If this were American, any sign of discord against the mods would be immediately deleted with a permaban like every US site / forum.

            Great job guys!

            [–]WinlandMistahanghigh 8ポイント9ポイント  (8子コメント)

            Is there a possibility for some sort of a log for mod interventions? Something like a separate subreddit with a running comments when a thread is deleted, hidden etc. Just the other day I was commenting on a rising thread then few hours earlier the thread wasnt visible on /r/europe and no one has any idea what happened. Not knowing why something gets hidden or banned is annoying.

            [–]Confoederationis HelveticaeLejeune_Dirichelet 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I've suggested the same thing a number of times already. I know for a fact that some mods read my posts, but I never got a reply from them.

            Also, /r/europeundelete was recently created with what seems to be that same goal in mind.

            [–]FinlandSampo 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

            I believe anyone (with some programming skills) could set up such a thing, if they wanted to spend some work on it.

            コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

              [–]The NetherlandsPhalanx300 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Excellent, awesome news! This was much needed as things were really getting out of hand and I feel a lot of power was abused. Here's to a better future for /r/europe.

              [–]auntieaggie 8ポイント9ポイント  (15子コメント)

              Well done mods - this is great news and very welcome.

              How about the secret list of banned sources like Breitbart? Will this now be published or gotten rid of entirely?

              [–]Greecegschizas[M] 5ポイント6ポイント  (14子コメント)

              We are working on managing the sources in a more scalable way. Most of them are public anyway and you already know about them (e.g. wordpress, tumblr or straight links to Google Search). For obvious reasons, some of them will have to remain secret (spam sites). Others will probably be public. I don't know what to do with an extensive list of some 287 porn sites - which I'm not really sure were useful as an "avoid-spam" list to begin with (they were probably copy-pasted from some other subreddit in the first place).

              [–]Pretend-SwedeScanianMoose 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I don't think publishing the list of banned sources would make sense from a mod's standpoint. Those who don't post links to these sites get nothing out of it, while circumventing a ban by citing alternative sources would be made easier for those who want to post stuff from those sites.

              [–]GermanyPalypso 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I don't know what to do with an extensive list of some 287 porn sites

              Post em.

              [–]fuckTheSkyNet 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

              Why is Breitbart banned?

              [–]Greecegschizas[M] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

              We will be evaluating the whole list in the following days.

              コメントをもっと表示する (10 返事)

                [–]HOLY SHIT WE FINALLY GOT A FLAG65117520180 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Defined as an account which frequently and consistently submits articles on one subject, especially a controversial one.

                Will you apply this rule equally, or are some agendas more equal than others?

                [–]_pm_me_your_worries_ 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                This is hilarious. Some posts are more equal than others. But really, this sort of thing has been a thing since the first forum moderator was born. Not many mods can be fair when they should be and nobody is fair on 100% of issues, because they happen to be people.

                [–]IrelandRekdAnalCavity 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                That's nice to see

                That's nice to see

                [–]Jakala223 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

                Please refrain from Topic Flooding

                I agree it is annoying when one topic floods the page, but how will you decide which posts to remove?

                [–]European UnionReilly616 10ポイント11ポイント  (3子コメント)

                What is standard in /r/worldnews seems like a good policy to me. Once three posts are on the same story, further posts will be removed. If one post on a story reaches the front page (maybe edit that to top of the font page for /r/europe) then further posts are removed. To be fair, only posts that are on the exact same story should be removed, whereas substantial updates, or news on the same topic, but a different event, should not be.

                That's how I would handle it. But I'm not a mod, so just take this as a suggestion. It would certainly require both diligence and restraint on the part of the mods.

                [–]geoffry31 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                If there is a particular topic that appears and is expected to spawn alot of articles (e.g. terrorist attack/big EU law change etc) it would probably be beneficial for one of the mods to create a daily self-post containing links to all the new articles people have posted in an effort to aggregate the discussion. However in practise that's hard to consistently manage without an ultra-active mod (or one with access to pre-publication news bulletins), because no one wants to lose a 100+ comment thread due to a 'megathread' being created late.

                [–]Jakala223 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                But that is on particular stories, not general topics

                [–]European UnionReilly616 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                To be honest, I think a 'topic' is too broad a term to base removals on. If there are several legitimate posts all within the one 'topic', but not significantly overlapping in content, I see no reason to remove them.

                [–]United KingdomNeversetinstone [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                I would just like to say that, to me at least, it feels a hell of a lot better being a part of this community now than it has for a while.

                Thank you to all the mods for addressing our concerns in a productive manner.

                [–]European UnionFlorisV [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                This'll get buried but it is amazing how well you guys have reacted to the criticism. Seriously it says a lot about your offline capabilities as well.

                Thumbs up!

                [–]LithuaniaSielgaudys 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Looks like I'm late into the train but..... Freeeeeedooooom!

                [–]Lithuaniaeisenkatze 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Can Europe take this much FREEDOM??

                [–]50% Sardinia 50% PiedmontElvishCopter [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                Good boss mod team.

                [–]geoffry31 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                As someone who never subbed to /r/europe due to it's reputation for censorship, I've now subbed in hope that what's being said is actually carried out.

                [–]Confoederationis HelveticaeLejeune_Dirichelet 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

                These are not firm rules which lead to an immediate ban if broken, but guidelines by which we reserve the right to use our mod tools if we feel something is getting out of hand.

                Your first mistake, buddies.

                What you need are clear rules that don't leave room for interpretation. Or else, nobody knows exactly where the limits are.

                [–]audi alteram partemIvashkin[M] 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Sounds good but in practice doesn't work. Although it's obviously going to need a leap of faith, having less tight rules and sensible mods is a better solution.

                [–]ErynaM 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                There's no such thing as clear, un-interpretable rules. The existence of lawyers, Supreme Courts and Constitutional Courts in pretty much every democratic country is a testament to that.

                [–]Confoederationis HelveticaeLejeune_Dirichelet 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                True, but a judiciary's decisions are public, which means precedents are built that help people understand and predict if a certain action/content will be considered legal or not. Here, nobody (except the mods) can see the previous decisions, so we're all left in the dark as to how strict these "rules" will be interpreted.

                It's also rare to find laws that use such vague terms as "numerous", "significantly" or "frequently". Or if they do, it's precisely because they have a judiciary body that sets precedents, or an executive power that decides the technicalities.

                [–]ErynaM 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                rare to find laws that use such vague terms as "numerous", "significantly" or "frequently"

                You should read the Romanian, Greek or Bulgarian constitution...and the family code...and parts of the civil code....yep, we're an absurd factory.

                [–]fuckTheSkyNet 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

                I am very glad /u/TheSkyNet is gone, he was cancer. Also, since it's allowed now, question for /u/dClauzel. How does it feel to admit you were wrong with your censorship? How does it make you feel to realize you can't just push your agenda down people's throats? Do you get angry when you see immigration news, especially those putting immigrants in a bad light? How does it feel to have your precious "megasujet" gone?

                [–]Czech Republicvenacz 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

                He was wrong? How can you be wrong about an opinion? Don't get me wrong, I am not saying I agree or disagree with /u/dClauzel, but how can you possibly say he was wrong just because the other moderators have a different opinion?

                [–]fuckTheSkyNet [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                How can you be wrong about an opinion?

                If my opinion is the earth is flat, my opinion is wrong.

                The same applies here. The censorship and megathread madness cause community divide, anger among the users and made this sub worse in fulfilling it's stated purpose: "A forum for discussion about Europe and its neighbourhood." Because of this, he was wrong.

                [–]Czech Republicvenacz [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                Opinion that the earth is flat is based on an erroneous fact, but it is still just an opinion and therefore it cannot be wrong. If I say that green is the best colour, can someone say that my opinion is wrong? Nope, that just wouldn't make any sense.

                We often say that someone's opinion about a fact is wrong, but what we usually mean is that the fact is wrong. In these cases I think it's OK to say that an opinion is wrong, because it's just a shortcut. But what you are saying is wrong is literally just an opinion, because it's not an opinion about a fact, it's an opinion about something that is very subjective.

                [–]fuckTheSkyNet [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Opinion that the earth is flat is based on an erroneous fact, but it is still just an opinion and therefore it cannot be wrong.

                First of, "erroneous fact" is nonsensical. A fact is something known to be true, therefore, it is without error. For example, the earth being sphere-like is a fact, a known truth.

                An opinion contradicting something that is objectively true is a wrong opinion.

                Regarding facts, there should be no opinions. The facts themselves should be open for research, in order to ensure they are truly facts, but if they are established through the scientific method to be facts, objective thruths, there should be no opinion on them. They are simply true. And saying they are not is wrong.

                If I say that green is the best colour, can someone say that my opinion is wrong?

                Oh boy. Ok, to answer your question, no. This opinion is neither correct nor wrong. It is a opinion. Actually, this is what an opinion is. Opinions concern subjective matters. Something that cannot be objectively quantified is subjective. Your metric is different than mine, therefore we arrive at different conclusions, but since we both pulled our definition of "best colour" out of our asses, both results are valid. They are opinions.

                We often say that someone's opinion about a fact is wrong, but what we usually mean is that the fact is wrong.

                Facts are not wrong. A fact is "A thing that is known or proved to be true". If you believe against a fact, that belief, or opinion, is wrong. Again, this is assuming that fact is indeed a fact. Research into the veracity of claims, even those currently considered facts, should be allowed and encouraged.

                But what you are saying is wrong is literally just an opinion, because it's not an opinion about a fact, it's an opinion about something that is very subjective.

                I have given my argument why I believe /u/dClauzel is objectively wrong. The stated purpose of this subreddit is, according to the sidebar: "A forum for discussion about Europe and its neighbourhood." By limiting the topic of immigration, he hindered discussion about Europe. His actions have impacted negatively the stated purpose of this forum.

                [–]Indifference is the best kind of tolerance (/s)Parabellum8g [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Very heroic of yours, using a throw away account that is about 2 hours old ;).

                [–]Indiaperseus0807 3ポイント4ポイント  (9子コメント)

                Great changes, I initially was a fan of the megathread but it was becoming quite unsustainable. Can we expect a comprehensive flair system anytime soon? Because that would be cool.

                Edit: could we also get a nice qualifier on what counts as racism and what doesn't? I know what it says in the sidebar, but to be honest, that's pretty vague, and I think it'd be nice to have a clear outline of what's okay and what's not.

                [–]Indifference is the best kind of tolerance (/s)Parabellum8g 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                The thing is that it seemingly differs by culture. I can remember an argument I had with a German guy some time back, in which he started to say that not respecting someone else his/her culture, or his/her religion, amounts to racism. And that wasn't the only person: a lot of people all across Europe seem to interpret that infamous word in varying ways.

                As for me: I limit its definition to discriminating someone on the basis of his/her skin colour or nationality. And I even consider the latter part a bit too vague to use in a credible manner, as it is hard in itself to divide people in 'races' on the basis of nationality in the 21st century. The entire word is backwards really, and kind of self defeating when using it to shut someone up - as it makes you reaffirm the existence of 'races' in the first place. Better to use discrimination as an umbrella term if you ask me.

                [–]Indiaperseus0807 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I agree with you.

                Although, my perspective on why saying "X culture is better than Y culture" is a bad thing - saying that implies that everything that people from X culture do is better than everything that people from Y culture do. It's infinitely more palatable, and sensible, when people criticise an aspect of a culture, which is absolutely okay (and needs to happen more to a lot of cultures, IMO). Not that I think blanket statements about culture should be delete/bannable, because let's be realistic, people are going to make blanket statements.

                [–]European UnionSpAn12[M] 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Discussing cultural difference and the economic impact etc - that is fine.

                Using race itself in the discussion is not allowed.

                [–]Russian Far WestCoffeh 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Are lizard-people a race? I ask for my friend Davidicke

                [–]European UnionSpAn12 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Only on the Isle of Wight.

                [–]pies n gravySlyRatchet[M] -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

                Yeah, even I have to acknowledge that, however much I thought megathreads were necessary in principle, they weren't working in practice. They did some good, but now is the time for finding other solutions. I can't say for certain, but I see no reason why we wouldn't implement a flair filter. It does depend on the immigration threads work now that they're going back to the main subreddit area.

                [–]Indiaperseus0807 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Again, I'd like to plug /r/india's flair system, I'm a big fan.

                [–]Flanders, Belgium, Europe, Western spiral arm of the Galaxyrobbit42 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                The hardest part of implementing a flair system is choosing the categories, you know. What does "[R]eddiquette" over at /r/India mean?

                [–]EU/Hungarypolymute 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                The reason we were so inundiated with migration posts is that 400000 subscribers' front pages make for a terribly effective place to push propaganda. This has not changed and the filter system wouldn't change it. I wish you good luck in trying to fight the flood of racists and bigots in any way though.

                [–]United Kingdomvereonix 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                This sounds great, the only thing I want to ask about and maybe have issue with is how will you be defining what is "controversial". Its one of them weasel words, which can be anything to different people.

                Recently on here basic news of stabbings, or explosions, or whatever are marked as "controversial" when its just BBC news reporting whats happened.

                Also by "Change in mods" does this mean some annoying mods will be removed, or simply new ones added?

                Aussi par "changement de mods" ce que cela signifie quelques mods gênants seront enlevés , ou tout simplement de nouveaux ajoutés?

                -.-'

                [–]FranceJacksambuck 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Mods: "Let a hundred flowers bloom"

                It's a trap, abort thread!

                [–]European UnionSpAn12 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Let a hundred flowers bloom

                For those unaware of the reference.

                [–]BulgariaAgentGotse 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                There's an easy way to see deleted comments by simply visiting a few websites. Comments linking to these websites got nuked all the time. What's the point of this? People will learn of this anyway because you can't stop the word of mouth. Will this continue in the future?

                Personally, I think transparency is nice and deleting comments who point this out is a bit too authoritarian for my tastes.

                [–]CuilRunnings 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                /u/lordvinyl this is what good moderation looks like.

                [–]fuckTheSkyNet 2ポイント3ポイント  (8子コメント)

                Quote from /u/SlyRatchet, in response to /u/DrySkinAndLips asking about /u/dClauzel saying Libyans are incompatible with Malians.

                If you read some of our other replies in this thread you can see that the cultural relativism section of the racism rule has been dropped.

                So, it's ok to say that I believe Europeans are incompatible with non Europeans?

                [–]European UnionSpAn12[M] 6ポイント7ポイント  (7子コメント)

                So, it's ok to say that I believe Europeans are incompatible with non Europeans?

                If you specify culture, then yes.

                Saying that people are incompatible simply because of their place of birth or race is, obviously, not acceptable.

                [–]segelah 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                very happy to hear this. looking forward to seeing these changes. thanks for taking our, sometimes pointed, criticisms seriously.

                [–]The 4th Reich... I mean European Union.Kaiser_Angela_Merkel 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Ah finally.

                [–]Brexit_Brutal_Jerk_Off_ 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Please refrain from Agenda Pushing: Defined as an account which frequently and consistently submits articles on one subject, especially a controversial one.

                Hmm, is there any specific frequency? Say something like no more than 3 article posts per day on a single subject? For example, one user has posted this many posts about Russia within the span of an hour. I'd assume something like this is a breach of the rule, but I'd like to know where the boundary is drawn?

                Anyways - the changes are a positive step forwards.

                [–]DenmarkIndsaetNavnHer [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Any chance a mod can look into the "what happened in your country this week" thread and kindly explain certain people that the country they talk about isn't real?

                [–]s4embakla2ckle1 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                I'm impressed.

                [–]IMissSplashyPants [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Wow, I'm impressed.

                It's too bad this never happened with /r/politics back in the day.

                Good move guys.

                [–]NotASpambot354812 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                After seeing subredditcancer paint you guys with a bad brush, I am happy to see that they were jumping the gun. Many perceived problems throughout reddit, but I'm glad to see that you're not one of them&it's just butthurt guys trying to stir non-existent trouble.

                [–]bahhumbugger [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Define what you mean by racism. Specifically.

                You have no trust left, as some of your fellow mods are pushing agendas which is apparently a ban? Oh right, no for mods?

                Je ne parle Francais?

                [–]GermanyABoutDeSouffle [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                Well, so basically, /r/europe will descent into the same casual racism as /r/worldnews? Where anti-immigration threats dominate and drown out all the other discussions?

                Can't help it, this here sub needs a stricter moderation, not some misguided attempt to please the masses.

                [–]BelgiumMadAce [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                This is how they'll do it:

                http://i.imgur.com/eRvaXsp.png

                They'll just barely rephrase their racism.

                This was to be predicted.

                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                  [–]PortugalPepeLinux -3ポイント-2ポイント  (36子コメント)

                  Please refrain from Agenda Pushing: Defined as an account which frequently and consistently submits articles on one subject, especially a controversial one.

                  Please refrain from Topic Flooding: If the front page contains numerous articles on one topic, please do not post any more unless it significantly adds to the conversation.

                  Well, I support your decision to end the megathread, but these general guidelines will do nothing to stop racism and general agenda pushing as you put it. Do you have any plans to stop these things in the future (without resorting to censorship-like tactics that generate a lot of controversy)? Or is this problem a problem with the community and not with the moderation (in which case, I'm afraid I'll choose to frequent this sub much less frequently)?

                  [–]Fuck the EU.Arathian 2ポイント3ポイント  (32子コメント)

                  My understanding of it is that being racist is bannable but stating ideas (even if the ideas can be racist) is not.

                  So, for example:

                  "Fucking sandmonkeys should get out of Europe" = banned

                  "I don't believe Europe should accept non-white immigrants" = not banned, but probably downvoted to hell

                  A mod can correct me if I am wrong.

                  [–]European UnionObliviuns 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  It seems to be the best way to go about it. I'm against racism and that kind of /r/european angry language is harmful, but cultural criticism should be valid. After all culture and ideals is half of what makes humans go to war and as such it's a fact that must be addressed and discussed.

                  [–]audi alteram partemIvashkin[M] 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  It is valid. It's the biggest issue with immigration, the people making the policies don't take culture into account.

                  [–]BelgiumMadAce [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                  They shouldn't. They should take individuals into account in stead of assuming how a person will behave based on a subjective interpretation of a flawed perception of "culture."

                  [–]BelgiumMadAce [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

                  "I don't believe Europe should accept non-white immigrants" = not banned, but probably downvoted to hell

                  Huh? That would be upvoted.

                  [–]Fuck the EU.Arathian [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

                  Not in my experience. Racism is downvoted in this sub.

                  [–]BelgiumMadAce [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

                  This is /r/europe.

                  [–]Fuck the EU.Arathian [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                  yeah, I am aware. Racism is heavily downvoted in this sub.

                  [–]BelgiumMadAce [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                  I beg to differ.

                  [–]Fuck the EU.Arathian [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                  Well, there is a very easy way to disprove me.

                  Show me a heavily upvoted racist post from...let's say, maximum 2 weeks ago.

                  [–]pies n gravySlyRatchet[M] -1ポイント0ポイント  (13子コメント)

                  I'd say that bringing race (e.g. black, white, Inuit, Roma, etc) into it at all is not okay. You can talk about culture just fine, like "I don't believe Europe should accept people of X culture" is okay or something like that, but you can't say "Black people should be sent to prison" or "white people deserve better than other races".

                  [–]Fuck the EU.Arathian 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Thanks for the clarification!

                  [–]The NetherlandsPhalanx300 3ポイント4ポイント  (10子コメント)

                  How about religion?

                  [–]България на три океана!RammsteinDEBG 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Orthodox Chistianity is the bestest religion

                  [–]pies n gravySlyRatchet[M] 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

                  Criticism of religion is mostly fine. If it's something super extreme like "let's kill all sikhs" or anything with a tinge of violence in it then I don't think we'd allow it. Violence is basically the definitive limit. As far as I'm concerned religion is just like any other political creed.

                  [–]BelgiumMadAce [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                  Advocating to use the monopoly of violence the state has (including imprisonment, ...) to curtail the religious human rights of minorities, is that allowed?

                  コメントをもっと表示する (7 返事)

                    [–]BelgiumMadAce [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                    So culturism is acceptable?

                    Advocating discrimination based on culture is no problem? Besides being no different in practice from racism (people generally don't do a thorough check for culture before discriminating) it literally has all the issues racism has. And it's also illegal in more than one European country.

                    [–]GogoGGK -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Fucking olivemonkey, pay dbnts, the aryan people of Bulgaria deserve the money you have.

                    コメントをもっと表示する (8 返事)

                      [–]WalesRhy_T 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      If frequently submitting articles and links on one subject is not enough for you how would you define "agenda pushing"?

                      [–]PortugalPepeLinux 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      I wasn't arguing with it. I agree with the definition.

                      [–]CAPS_4_FUN [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                      stop looking at everything as "racism", and your imaginary racism will stop existing. Being against mass immigration is not racist. People can't say this in the real world, so they post about it on the internet on sites like this. Deal with it.

                      [–]Romaniacbr777 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      This is very good news, moderation on this sub has been running wild for some time now. I'm glad to see that changes are being implemented to address the rampant power abuse by some moderators on this sub.

                      When exactly will the recruiting for new mods happen?

                      [–]European UnionAreat 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      I think you took the right decisions on these topics. It was getting ridiculous, and counter productive.

                      Je pense que vous avez pris les bonne décisions sur ces sujets. Ça commençait à devenir n'importe quoi, et contre productif

                      [–]Perfidious AlbionSpecsaversGaza 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Thanks for the positive changes.

                      [–]MrBigScissors 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Glad to see a change in moderation policy, sounds like sense has finally prevailed.

                      Good to be back after being banned for unexplained reasons. Would be nice to see the more bonkers mods taken to task for their behaviour as well.

                      [–]Croatiabadblueboy146 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Great, good for you mods. It did take you some time but the important thing is those megathreads are gone.

                      [–]Noltonn 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      We feel the use of automoderator shadowbans has got out of hand. We will be immediately removing all shadowbans and using them more sparingly in the future.

                      Shadowbans should be restricted to spambots. They shouldn't be used because you dislike people or disagree with their opinions.

                      [–]AustriaSaltySolomon [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                      I agree with you but would add alt accounts which are obviously just created to push an agenda. It is sad but if they only get banned another one will pop up.

                      [–]European Unionremiieddit 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Really good to hear

                      [–]BelgiumMadAce -2ポイント-1ポイント  (7子コメント)

                      I disagree with this policy change. Here's why: In the immigration mega-threads every submission and most comments that were critical or against a certain stance towards asylum were heavily downvoted while they didn't break any rules whatsoever.

                      If it's impossible in this sub to even have submissions that go against the grain stay above 0 then any kind of discussion will remain impossible and whether or not people intend it, a certain agenda/viewpoints will be mercilessly pushed.

                      An actual discussion will continue to be impossible.

                      Let's see how well this comment does.

                      [–]AuntieJoJo 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

                      I disagree with you..

                      .. but I don't want to shove you in a megathread, and I don't want you to disappear down below a comment treshold, so I'm upvoting you.

                      I never wanted people like you gone from sight, I just wanted a little freedom of expression for my side, too.

                      [–]pies n gravySlyRatchet[M] 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      Please do more of this. I've actively upvoted posts I disagree with in the past because they were interesting. Each person who does this makes the subreddit just ever so slightly a better place.

                      [–]European UnionxNicolex 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      Each person who does this makes the subreddit just ever so slightly a better place.

                      I can't wait for the wonderful moments when we see anyone presenting a non anti-immigration comment in an immigration thread going -20 like it was for the past few months.

                      [–]European Unionemk2203 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                      Maybe if you wouldn't denounce everyone with a different opinion as a racist asshole, you wouldn't have -20 karma for each comment.

                      [–]BelgiumMadAce [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                      I just wanted a little freedom of expression for my side, too.

                      Oh puhlease. The anti-asylum stance is the default narrative in this subreddit. You know that.

                      [–]Indifference is the best kind of tolerance (/s)Parabellum8g 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      The thing is that what you describe is rather innate to Reddit instead of /r/europe. Granted, the people that read a certain subreddit can wildly differ from another subreddit (and the subjects they consider 'more important'), yet what you basically complain about is the meta failure of the upvote/downvote system. Downvotes should be removed using an overlay or something, to at least limit the number of downvotes issued out of revenge or sheer disagreement. I think /r/europe would be a better place for discourse if such a change would be made.

                      And true thrash comments (for example discriminatory comments, respectless ad hominem behavior that lowers the standard, etc) can be removed by using the 'report' button anyways.

                      [–]BelgiumMadAce [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                      The issue is inherent to reddit, but worse in subreddits that are an active campaigning ground for certain groups.

                      [–]European UnionSenseiSwag -4ポイント-3ポイント  (25子コメント)

                      Just make sure the front page and comment sections don't turn into the cesspool they were before the megathreads. I posted in /r/european for a while because I couldn't distinguish it from /r/europe.

                      [–]ProfessorZ00M 4ポイント5ポイント  (11子コメント)

                      When you say the front page was a "cesspit", do you mean it talked about things you don't like?

                      [–]wuts 4ポイント5ポイント  (8子コメント)

                      He means there were obvious news-stories being posted and brigaded by racists who were trying to push their agenda. And now they'll be doing it again.

                      The megathread was a decent idea that helped curtail that except it wasn't implemented properly.

                      All off-topic meta posts should have been deleted on sight and there should have been a clear way to submit stories - Title, link, opinion.

                      Also they should have had one megathread a day. They didn't need to update the top post. It could have worked really well if the just did that.

                      [–]ProfessorZ00M 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

                      So why do you think topics that were pro immigration were allowed outside of the mega thread?

                      Link related for example.

                      https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/3gz73r/60_of_german_muslims_support_samesex_marriage_and/?

                      Meanwhile topics that were negative about immigration were relegated to the mega thread?

                      https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/3f1uh6/immigration_megathread_part_iii/?

                      Seems pretty obvious some mods just wanted to push their agenda themselves.

                      [–]European UnionSenseiSwag 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      Because it has nothing to do with immigration that Muslims in Germany support gay marriage. Muslims have been in Germany for decades and are a set part of our society.

                      [–]European UnionSpAn12[M] 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

                      Your first link makes no mention anywhere in the article that any of those surveyed were immigrants. It couldn't possibly have been added to the megathread.

                      It requires the assumption that those who are Muslim are automatically immigrants, which is clearly untrue.

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