上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 319

[–]Enzo-Unversed [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

So the immigration crisis is in Eastern Europe too?

[–]throw3t2 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Being allowed to stay in Europe is undeniable an improvement for the people trying to come here. But what about the people left behind?

The traffickers demand exorbitant sums, so the refugees we are dealing with are probably already the ones better off than most. And the people who have nothing have no choice but to stay. If they try to immigrate legally they need at least a decent education. A doctor from Syria will most likely never be allowed to practice in Europe and even if it makes no difference for us but in Syria his/her work could save countless lives.

Is it wise to create a dynamic where people only work towards leaving their home instead of improving it? If every shop-owner closes up the moment he has made the necessary cash to travel to Europe the situation in these countries will never get better.

I believe we have to consider not only the people at our doorstep but especially the people we do not see on the news every day. And while being send back is bad for the people affected it may be better for their country and all the people left there as whole.

[–]Republic of MacedoniaXY100 13ポイント14ポイント  (9子コメント)

Do migrants think that they are entitled or in some way guaranteed european life?

https://youtu.be/OG8xmBR3nwg?t=66

[–]Portugalandy18cruz [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

"I don't want to stay in Greece, I wanna go to Europe". That sums it up perfectly.

[–]Macedonia, Greeceuserdx2a 21ポイント22ポイント  (6子コメント)

Picture of immigrants praying in a main street in Greece

I think this illustrates the situation somewhat.

[–]PM_ME_FIREARMS 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Are they seriously in the street? For fucks sake, keep it to the damn sidewalk at least.

[–]Benthetraveler 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

You know you are in deep shit when you pray towards a Greek flag.

[–]Macedonia, Greeceuserdx2a 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Towards?

[–]Benthetraveler 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I wasn't being serious.

[–]Macedonia, Greeceuserdx2a 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know :P.It doesn't make make sense otherwise.

[–]Audunis 9ポイント10ポイント  (6子コメント)

All the news I wanted to post has been. So I will just say, if you don't want Nazis don't make Weimar.

Never mind. Muslims on town council cancel decades old Christmas tradition: http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/11/denmark-muslim-majority-in-local-board-cancels-decade-old-christmas-tradition-finances-eid-party-wit

[–]suckstosuckdoesntit 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Are you serious, this is from 2012, and it was resolved, afaik. Just made both parties seem like fools, and now you for posting it.

[–]Belgiumtrop_commercial 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Weimar did nothing wrong.

[–]Audunis 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Weimar was pretty bad. It is not surprising the Nazis got traction in that environment.

"Make people desperate, get mad when they become extremists."

[–]come_visit_detroit 35ポイント36ポイント  (4子コメント)

I saw this somewhere earlier and I figured it would be of interest. Why a richer Africa means more migrants

Essentially, as the economy improves, Africans get more access to information (they see how much better off Europe is) and more people get the resources to leave. The truly destitute people can't afford to leave, so we're getting their 'middle class'.

This is a bit of a quandary for people who suggested helping Africans in Africa rather than letting them in and helping them in Europe.

Some want to cut foreign aid because we should take care of 'our own' first, but I've seen some argue that aid hurts the African agriculture industry, and that aid often ends up in the hands of warlords and such who distribute aid to their followers to increase the peoples' dependence on them. I'm sure this happens in some instances, but I'm not sure to what extent to happens.

In relation to the above, China is increasing its influence in Africa which still has significant economic potential (lots of people, lots of resources), so decreasing foreign aid may put Europe at a disadvantage long term compared to China, assuming Africa does grow. This whole thing is fairly complicated.

Finally, there's the brain drain aspect. The West takes in a lot of Africa's educated, and as the first link showed, we're taking their young men who can afford a relatively decent living too. This could hurt their long-term economic growth.

This article is one of the first that I found on the topic, which essentially suggests that we should educated them so that they have skills and a network, then encourage them to go back to Africa. The African Union has been trying to do this too, European countries could give them a big help here.

[–]United States of AmericaHRAustinTexx 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

What we should do is increase foreign aid and help develop Africa, and also have decently strict immigration quotas. At some point Africa will get to the point where people don't need to immigrate, and where people won't need to risk their lives to get to Europe. Also, we can more than afford to provide aid to Africa.

[–]United States of AmericaMeatsim1 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

How do you define "need to immigrate?" A lot of these people don't strictly "need" to immigrate as in they aren't fleeing for their lives. And as long as economic differences remain, even if the degree of that difference is drastically reduced, there will be people who will feel the "need" to immigrate to make a better life for themselves economically.

[–]The NetherlandsXeran_ 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree with pretty much everything but the foreign aid. We could decrease the aid and still getting all the pros from it without losing out to China while helping Africa in a better way. It's quite simple, just do what China does and invest in Africa. It would also gives us more influence and we can more closely look at the results.

At the same time as should stop with taking in any migrants. That would be better for both Europe and Africa in the longer. At only the cost of a select few who can pay the journey and are in search of a better(economical) life.

[–]The NetherlandsXeran_ 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Frans Timmermans totally useless post about needing more coordination, EU and more refugees

~95% of the comments, including his own ' fan group' is totally calling him out for it. He spreads a lot of lies, useless promises, no actual policies nor actions and no solutions for the root problem.

[–]RudeBritannia 16ポイント17ポイント  (1子コメント)

Calais mayor threats to open France's borders and allow thousands of migrants into Britain.

Great to see two EU member states working together so well on this issue.

[–]G.P.R.H Glorious People's Republic of Hellasneutrolgreek 41ポイント42ポイント  (8子コメント)

The IKEA MURDERS WERE A TERROR ATTACK

It is being supressed not only here on this subreddit but on all media.

At least one of the victims was beheaded

NSFW - Picture of one lady with her head far away from her body

Another picture

This was not a "stabbing", 2 muslims entered an IKEA store and murdered a Mother and her son, the mother is confirmed to have been beheaded in this "stabbing".

[–]Englandsyuk 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why suppress it?

[–]OviLOL 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wait, that has to be photoshopped WTF.

[–]G.P.R.H Glorious People's Republic of Hellasneutrolgreek 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mirjam Tapper posts that she has seen photos sent to here from someone that was at the crime scene.

“Just seen a couple of pictures taken by a visitor at IKEA. The images and text to them had legs almost give way under me. If the photos are authentic (I have no reason to believe that they are not) it shows that what many long feared has now happened in Sweden. The murders appear to be sheer terror act."

[–]Switzerlandt0t0zenerd 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

Austrian treatment of refugees "scandalous" according to Amnesty International

  • 2'000 refugees left outside, with nothing to protect them from either storms our 40 degrees heat

  • No psychological care

  • No single-sex showers

  • Baby with a concussion left alone and untreated.

[–]chill1995 22ポイント23ポイント  (6子コメント)

We don't owe refugees anything.

[–]Cuen -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

You do. http://www.geneva-academy.ch/RULAC/international_refugee_law.php

EDIT; I get that everyone is all hot and bothered about the immigration situation, but don't have to downvote me for pointing out that there are international laws on refugees. That being said there is a difference between immigrants and refugees, but noone on this sub cares to make a distinction of that. Refugees are defined very specifically, but they are protected.

[–]chill1995 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

Cute. Here's a map showing you where Austria is geographically relative to the countries these people are fleeing. http://imgur.com/D7IuOcf Are you going to tell me there Austria was the first asylum these people could've reached?

If you're a genuine refugee, you don't get to shop around for the best country to go to. These people aren't Austria's responsibility.

I implore Amnesty International executives to house these people in their own homes.

[–]United States of AmericaMeatsim1 -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Here's another map showing where Austria is politically http://mapsof.net/uploads/static-maps/european_union_map.jpg

[–]MoraviaGNeps [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

To get to the EU they have to cross other countries first as well.

[–]Cuen -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for the map, but I'm quite aware of Austria's geographical position. Are you implying that refugees stop being refugees the moment they enter the first semi-stable nation bordering their own conflict ridden countries? Turkey has 2 million refugees, most of these people still live in camps or have spread to cities and struggle to survive, you're saying those two million people are exclusively Turkey's problem now solely through geographical location. It's not that simple, buddy.

[–]United States of AmericaHRAustinTexx -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, but there's no reason to be retarded assholes either.

[–]RiseUpEuropa 33ポイント34ポイント  (3子コメント)

[–]DenmarkChinggisKhagan -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

this is still the dumbest thing Ive ever seen in my life. Are we all just ignoring the fact that there are fewer and fewer really poor people in the world?

[–]European Union (HU)poteott 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thank you very much for showing us this clip.

[–]Audunis 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

My face when I got suspended for posting that too much

[–]andersonisgod 20ポイント21ポイント  (11子コメント)

Are there any interviews with immigrants where they are specifically asked: "why are you emmigrating when there is no war in your town? why are you coming to Europe when there are nearer destination where your life would be safe? why are you country shopping? why are there so much more working age men with you? do you understand that you might not be welcomed here?"

I only seem to find cliche reports about this topic but would like to hear what immigrants would have to say confronted with those questions.

[–]The NetherlandsXeran_ 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Their definitely are, but not really by normal journalists (don't ask the taboo questions...)

But this was a nice video with many of these things:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa80bT4LbxI

[–]CroatiaLangley_Bot 19ポイント20ポイント  (17子コメント)

Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq. Those are all american battlefields, therefore I propose to put all migrants on the orange juice tanker and send them to 'good 'ol' uncle Sam.

[–]Italycodexxxxxxxxxx -2ポイント-1ポイント  (5子コメント)

1) There are thousands of reasons for immigrants and for problems in those countries, and some of these are barely connected with each other;

2) "US battlefields", so basically you're saying that US came there and made all the shit up. Interesting. Because it's not true.

[–]CroatiaLangley_Bot 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

US geopolitical battlefields

[–]Italycodexxxxxxxxxx 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

They may be geopolitical battlefields, but they're surely not the cause of immigrants.

[–]Fuck the EU.Arathian 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

What would be a more plausible cause?

Who gave weapons to ISIS and iraqi forces that were so poorly trained that they retreated instantly?

Who gave weapons to terrorists opposing Assad? Who caused that stable middle eastern nation to collapse into a 5 years war?

Who invaded Iraq? Who invaded Afghanistan?

I am not in the anti-American train, I quite like Americans, but their foreign policy is shit and HAS caused most of the problems.

[–]Switzerlandchauceer [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The US did not at all cause the Syrian Civil War. That is patent bullshit. Barack Obama and the US have been very reluctant do much at all towards supporting the rebels, it has been France that has been much more hawkish. It has been Turkey, Qatar, and Saudi Arabia that have funded the rebels and ensured the continuation of the rebellion, but the very beginning was due to Sunni Islamist resentment against the Assad regime

If you'd like to learn more in lieu of 'muh american imeprialism' visit /r/syriancivilwar

[–][deleted] 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

FYI the U.S. already resettles more refugees than any other country.

http://www.unhcr.org/524c31a09.html

Plus European countries (and NATO in some) were involved in Libya, Afghanistan, and Iraq. Finally, the UK was also involved in Syria.

Don't act like Europe wasn't a part of these conflicts as well.

[–]JayOC 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Sweden took in more refugees than the US.

For Fiscal Year (FY) 2015, the ceiling is 70,000. Refugee Ceilings and Admitted Refugees to the U.S., FY 2009-2014.

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/refugees-fact-sheet

[–][deleted] 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

This link says nothing about Sweden.

Instead it says, "The United States resettles more refugees than any other country, and these refugees go on to contribute to our communities and our economy" in the first paragraph.

Resettling is not necessarily where a refugee first ends up - many of these folks will end up in the U.S.

[–]popadom4u -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is it per capita or another one of those stupid charts that fat americans jerk themselves over getting bigger numbers than iceland?

[–]European UnionIKraftI 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

lol, I'm sure Bashar al-Assads regime wasn't torturing people before the demonstrations got shot up (seems to be in the family huh?) and a third of the military deserted to the opposition which gets a few TOWs from time to time from the US. How the fuck is that an American "battlefield".

[–]FranceAntigoneInTheWall 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Because america fund the syrian rebels

[–]Switzerlandchauceer 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It does not fund any major rebels in Syria. The American funded rebels have been eliminated by Jabhat Al Nusra. All the powerful rebel groups in Syria are funded by Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Qatar.

if you'd like to learn more (in lieu of 'MUH AMERICAN IMPERIALISM') visit /r/syriancivilwar.

[–]European UnionIKraftI 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

You seem to miss the entire point of my comment

[–]Baguettegabechko 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

And we don't?

[–]Switzerlandchauceer 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Odd that this is getting downvoted. If anything France has been more hawkish towards Syria than the US.

[–]BelgiumTrickleDownHax 64ポイント65ポイント  (90子コメント)

The silence of the mods is starting to bother me.

[–]European UnionSpAn12[M] -36ポイント-35ポイント  (89子コメント)

Hi. What questions do you have?

[–]Rightful Argentine clayAugusto_Franco 44ポイント45ポイント  (22子コメント)

So mods, this is an immigration thread.

I assume you will remove it? Or will you let it stay because it fits with leftist narrative and makes immigrants look good?

Edit: The thread was removed!

[–]Audunis 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

[–]Italygoerz 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was skeptical initially, but I'm finding that sub more and more interesting. Probably that's what the mods want: all immigration debates moved out of r/europe.

[–]European UnionSpAn12[M] -35ポイント-34ポイント  (19子コメント)

I did look at that thread and did nearly delete it earlier - until I read the article.

While the survey questions German Muslims it does not differentiate between those who were and those who were not born in Germany. It is not about immigration, rather, the social composition of Germany and the views of a specific social group.

In the same way I would not remove a post about the views of Christians, Jews, Sikhs or Buddhists etc in any country.

Or will you let it stay because it fits with leftist narrative and makes immigrants look good?

It doesn't make immigrants look good. Because the article was about Muslims, not immigrants.

[–]Rightful Argentine clayAugusto_Franco 36ポイント37ポイント  (18子コメント)

[–]European UnionSpAn12[M] -49ポイント-48ポイント  (17子コメント)

Now I will be honest. I would judge on a post by post basis, however, in your case I would be far more likely to remove them. I do not believe that you are interested in an open discussion on this issue. Largely due to your posting history.

You are also moderator of a subreddit which, in the side bar states:

A place to discuss the loathsome, goat-fucking, clit-cutting, murderous Muslim menace.

So I say again. In your case I would be far more likely to remove them.

[–]United KingdomBenKerman 23ポイント24ポイント  (0子コメント)

How very tolerant of you

[–]Україна!Kuklachev 33ポイント34ポイント  (5子コメント)

hypocrit

[–]European UnionSpAn12[M] -35ポイント-34ポイント  (4子コメント)

I don't think so. I said above:

In the same way I would not remove a post about the views of Christians, Jews, Sikhs or Buddhists etc in any country.

This includes both positive and negative posts about particular groups. I would apply this equally across the board.

Expect in instances where I think a particular user is using such posts to break the following two rules:

  • It is not ok to suggest that members of different cultures or races are incapable of cohabiting.

  • It is not ok to suggest that some races or cultures are inherently better than others.

[–]IrelandAl_Cohol 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

It is not ok to suggest that members of different cultures or races are incapable of cohabiting.

I am from a culture called ZynoRaxism we believe that only people who follow our sect deserve to live and all others must be "Removed"

are you sure it's not ok to suggest different cultures are incapable of cohabiting because that goes against my religion/culture and I'll have to report you to the admins.

It is not ok to suggest that some races or cultures are inherently better than others.

In my culture, Women have sex with relatives at the age of 18 for 7 days to coincide with the days of the week and the blood moon prophecy Of walakin-do eye-rubani the blood god of the planet Zx-21 (Andromeda Galaxy)

at the age of 20 we twist cut and break off boys fingers to accept them into man hood and when a person reaches 70 they are tied to a bed and set on fire. (all of this has been agreed to upon accepting ZynoRaxism)

We believe that by it's sole existance our culture is inferior to every other culture.

Are you going to tell me that say, American modern culture is possibly worse than mine? if so I think the Admins will need to see this.

[–]The NetherlandsXeran_ 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

Except those rules aren't exactly applied equally. Rather comments got removed which pointed out that fact

https://np.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/3fbp1f/immigration_megathread_part_iv/ctnfgkj?context=1

Others get removed which say the exact same thing. Only with some names changed to change side in the debate

[–]Україна!Kuklachev 28ポイント29ポイント  (0子コメント)

You said that you did not delete an article that said that "60% of German Muslims support same-sex marriage" but you would delete and the submission about the fact that in UK "61 per cent think homo‐sexuality should be made illegal".

These submissions are identical in context. They are different in resulting content - one is good for your narrative. Another is bad. One would be deleted. And you let another be as it was.

This is hypocrisy. You claim to be neutral and obeying whatever rules you impose on others. In fact - you don't.

[–]Rightful Argentine clayAugusto_Franco 47ポイント48ポイント  (7子コメント)

If you're going to be honest then you might as well admit that you only left the thread up because it made Muslims look good.

Based on /user/Hulgerx4's posting history, it's obvious he has an agenda too. His entire posting history consists of only pro-Islam comments.

So we can promote our agenda so long as it aligns with what the mods beleive

[–]European UnionSpAn12[M] -30ポイント-29ポイント  (5子コメント)

If you're going to be honest then you might as well admit that you only left the thread up because it made Muslims look good.

I frankly don't care if a post makes whatever group look good or bad. What matters is how each is discussed.

[–]IrelandAl_Cohol 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'll probably get banned for this but you're a real weasel.

[–]chill1995 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

So, you're essentially tone-policing?

[–]ÖsterreichRedKrypton 25ポイント26ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, currently you don't even try to let it get discussed, but tucked away in the Immigration Thread. These get very cluttered and confused. Trying to discuss one single article is made unreasonably difficult.

Also the exposure is very different. While the the pro muslim article was allowed to be paraded on the front page, articles which show that a lot of migrants aren't really integrated and are far more conservative are deleted instantly.

This currently is the biggest talking point in the EU right now and you try to make it disappear from conversation or at least try to minimise it.

[–]BelgiumTrickleDownHax 29ポイント30ポイント  (7子コメント)

Well mainly that huge amounts of comments get deleted, just today a meta post about the megathread also got deleted and that not one mod takes the time to tell us why they're deleting so much comments/threads.

I would get it if those comments were all racist, but tell us that's why you deleted them. Also about that meta post that got deleted today, deleting a thread that criticizes the mega-thread (with valid points imo) and thus criticizing the mods seems like a very questionable move at best, especially when they give no explanation. To me (us?) it seems like you guys are trying to bury the topic of immigration in a dark hole and that nobody can speak about it, expect in that dark hole.

So what my question would be I guess is: Why are you guys not telling us why you're doing all these things.

Note: You may have mentioned somewhere why you're doing all these things, but in that case it's not very visable and it definitly wouldn't hurt to repeat it from time to time, instead of giving us an eardeafening silence.

Edit: spelling

[–]European UnionSpAn12[M] -30ポイント-29ポイント  (6子コメント)

Hi. Good and fair question.

The meta-thread and other comments were removed, I think, because there is a grey area in the subreddit rules over whether meta posts are allowed or not see section 4 of the Community Rules and Guidelines. We are currently discussing as a mod team how best to proceed with that.

I have said elsewhere in this thread that I believe such posts should be allowed to stay up and that is what I will push for in these discussions. I also think meta-threads can provide a space where the admins can engage in dialogue with the user-base.

There is frankly no excuse for a disconnect and that is what I am trying to address.

[–]Slovakiaunicycling_dinosaur 19ポイント20ポイント  (4子コメント)

If you're not sure if they should be removed, why are you removing them? Shouldn't you keep them up unless you've decided they are against the rules?

[–]European UnionSpAn12[M] -11ポイント-10ポイント  (3子コメント)

I am personally not removing them. Hopefully after we reach a decision nobody else will be either.

[–]ヽ(◉◡◔)ノkabav 27ポイント28ポイント  (2子コメント)

Someone banned a user for posting this:

Can we have a meta Megathread since the current megathread is not about immigration and the community deserves some answers?

I think there really needs to be correlation between the community rules and the actual moderation, because at times it seems more like arbitrary actions by some emotional guy, than actual moderation.

Btw. thanks for engaging in constructive dialogue, it's exactly what we need more of!

[–]European UnionSpAn12[M] -13ポイント-12ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think there really needs to be correlation between the community rules and the actual moderation

We are trying to get this sorted ASAP. There has been a disconnect between the two and different mods have been applying different standards. Greater clarity and guidance is needed.

[–]BlueSparkle 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

what happened to updating the thread are getting posted ? i personally would think its needed for megathreads to work properly. whats your opinion on that if you don't mind me asking.

edit: nevermind, you answered it below, but if you don't have enough manpower, then maybe getting extra mods could be a solution? also thank you work.

[–]ThisIsAUsRNaame 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah so thats why my meta thread was removed. Kinda sad I need to find a comment explaining why since moderators refuses to respond to my modmails.

[–]EUIt_Is1-24PM 20ポイント21ポイント  (6子コメント)

  1. An chance we can have filters rather then magathread? Under 1st megatread we were told that setting up filters take time - how much more time you need..?

  2. Do you really think all deleted comments, documented here should be deleted, so the thread now looks like this ?