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[2015-08-13] IP Blocks (self.ChillingEffects)

reddit が 投稿

This week, Reddit received valid legal requests from Germany and Russia requesting the takedown of content that violated local law. As a result, /r/watchpeopledie was blocked from German IPs, and a post in /r/rudrugs was blocked from Russian IP's in order to preserve the existence of reddit in those regions. We want to ensure our services are available to users everywhere, but if we receive a valid request from an authorized entity, we reserve the right to restrict content in a particular country. We will work to find ways to make this process more transparent and streamlined as Reddit continues to grow globally.

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トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]antipositive 154ポイント155ポイント  (200子コメント)

What defines a "valid legal request" from Germany? Were those requests by government authorities, law firms or another entity?

[–]ultio 94ポイント95ポイント  (100子コメント)

Yeah, it does not make sense. if that was the case, websites like liveleak.com would have been blocked in Germany years ago.

[–]Awsome_Pepper 326ポイント327ポイント  (78子コメント)

But the German government can not block websites, there is no legal basis for that and not the needed technical resources. The only reason /r/watchpeopledie is blocked in Germany is because the admins corporated. If they told the government to fuck of there would have been zero consequences.

Edit: Wow, thaqnks for the gold kind stranger. You popped my reddit gold cherry.

[–]ElectronicPotato 85ポイント86ポイント  (51子コメント)

Also I don't really understand which part of the german "Goverment" requested this take down? I'm a german myself and I have NO clue who would even bother with this stuff?

[–]Awsome_Pepper 44ポイント45ポイント  (49子コメント)

I'm not sure but it might be the "Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien"(Federal Department for Media Harmful to Young Persons)

[–]thekyshu 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

Nah, they don't bother with this, they test films and video games and, well, media, they don't block websites.

If it was even a government department (which I doubt), it would have been a department more specialized to web management (?)

[–]900PercentSaltIntake 40ポイント41ポイント  (32子コメント)

Fuck those overzealous assholes they ruin the fun for everyone.

[–]MyNameIsOP 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

The definition of "busybodies "

[–]Tischlampe 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

They ruined gaming ever since they existed. and why? Just. Fucking. Because.

[–]900PercentSaltIntake 9ポイント10ポイント  (7子コメント)

Didn't they try banning Counter Strike Source like 10 times or something (along with a load of other popular shooters) which would've cost the government a handful of 10s of millions of € in tax revenue?

[–]MagicalSpaceHoney 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

"ban" in this case means "only allow sales to adults" btw. it's also publishers who self censor their products in order to be able to sell to kids.

PS: kinda like the American self-censorship of nudity in games, the irony I mean seriously...

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    [–]ImAzura 8ポイント9ポイント  (7子コメント)

    Are you serious. Is that a real institution?

    [–]MartianSky 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Can confirm. This exists.

    (the "for" in the name is a bit misleading at first glance ;))

    [–]JustARandomGerman 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Yes. The sub was most likely blocked because of violation of §18 JuSchG (Youth protection law)

    This happened before on another german site, http://pr0gramm.com/top ; they were hosting a variety of cat c0ntent, g0re, and pr0n. BPjM saw it, and now you have to create a user account and accept the ToS (declaring you are 18 years old) to see NSFW content, which is not the case at /r/watchpeopledie. The thing that pisses them off most is that "a permanent loss of empathy towards the victims of excessive acts of violence is to be apprehended".

    This is the letter that probably arrived at Reddit HQ: http://full.pr0gramm.com/2013/09/zrnukba.jpg

    However, the situation here is different: There are no Reddit servers in Germany, so the BPjM can only ask the mods to take the site down. They can not block it, nor force american hosters to take it down, since it's out of their jurisdiction, and probably does not violate american law.

    [–]aqswdefrgthzjukilo 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Is the MPAA a real institution? The FCC?

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          [–]geraldo42 24ポイント25ポイント  (7子コメント)

          The only reason /r/watchpeopledie[1] is blocked in Germany is because the admins corporated.

          I think you mean capitulated, not corporated.

          Edit: or, as toasterforhire pointed out, "cooperated"

          [–]breadislive 31ポイント32ポイント  (3子コメント)

          There is no law at all in germany prohibitng us from visiting sites like r/watchpeopledie. Reddit is just a lazy shit and randomly accepts requests like this. Fuck them.

          [–]ToasterforHire 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Or cooperated

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            [–]breadislive 34ポイント35ポイント  (8子コメント)

            Unblock this shit now. This has NOTHING to do with german laws. I'd like to know which retarded fuckhead politician did this and burn their house down.

            First we have politicians supporting NSA spying in germany, trying to charge journalists for treason and now they block websites? Get fucking flying fucked in the face.

            [–]P9P9 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Art. 1 GG

            [–]yhelothere 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Die Bürde des Hensen ist unanmatschbar?

            [–]VERTIKAL19 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

            Literally the first paragraph in our constitution says "Human dignity shall be inviolable"

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              [–]Rigolachs 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Maybe they could get google.de to remove reddit from the queries if they just put the whole site on the index? That'd be a pretty big consequence.

              edit for clarification: Sites indexed by the BPjM do not appear on google.de

              [–]GreyChillstep 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Shitty admins we have here. How about some fucking integrity.

              [–]ghotibulb 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

              There is, in a limited way. Stormfront would be an example, which is mentioned in the German wikipedia article about internet censorship: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sperrungen_von_Internetinhalten_in_Deutschland

              But I'd say chances that this would be used against reddit are zero...

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                [–]webhyperion 18ポイント19ポイント  (18子コメント)

                Generally the BPjM only removes results from google linking to these websites and does not actively censor content. As the law on what the BPjM acts says that content, books, movies, games etc. that are determined harmful to the youth etc. shall not be advertised for. Finding it in google would be advertisement.

                One example: bestgore.com is not findable in german google

                At the bottom of the page on google it says is:

                Aus Rechtsgründen hat Google 1 Ergebnis(se) von dieser Seite entfernt. Weitere Informationen über diese Rechtsgründe finden Sie unter https://www.chillingeffects.org/notices/9415.

                Which means:

                For legal reasons, Google has removed 1 result(s) from this page. For more information about these legal reasons, see https://www.chillingeffects.org/notices/9415.

                I can access bestgore.com though if I type it into my browser.

                [–]kyew 3ポイント4ポイント  (14子コメント)

                Was watchpeopledie not already quarantined? That would also remove it from Google

                [–]T_Dumbsford 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

                No, we're not quarantined.

                [–]kyew 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Ok. Wow. This is the moment I realize I have no idea what the fuck Reddit's new content policy means.

                [–]webhyperion 2ポイント3ポイント  (9子コメント)

                Idk, but that wouldn't change anything.

                Reddit admins would have to change the site so that this subreddit wouldn't be visible anywhere(what I said above, "shall not be advertised for") i.e. on searches, in posts etc. etc. which is technically not possible for them right now. That way you could still type it into the address bar above and access it, from an outside view though it wouldn't be visible (like on google). So reddit goes the simple road and just bans the sub entirely for everyone from a german IP.

                [–]IMissSplashyPants 5ポイント6ポイント  (8子コメント)

                Multireddits are not affected:

                https://www.reddit.com/user/politicbot/m/gasthesnoo (NSFW)

                My tor exit node is currently german and I can see the /r/watchpeopledie posts fine.

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                    [–]webhyperion 22ポイント23ポイント  (80子コメント)

                    It likely was BPjM.

                    See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Department_for_Media_Harmful_to_Young_Persons

                    These also daily remove results from Google.

                    [–]JoridDevlin 37ポイント38ポイント  (23子コメント)

                    Well, if Reddit wants to play nice with the BPjM, Germans will see a lot of banned subreddits soon. Strictly speaking, basically all 16+ content should not be accessible for minors during daytime, if Reddit considers to apply for German civil law.

                    [–]IMissSplashyPants 18ポイント19ポイント  (4子コメント)

                    NSFW: http://snew.github.io/#/nsfa

                    That's a live stream of all the nsfw content on reddit. Suck it German Government.

                    [–]wobinidan 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    Wow, I really kind of regret clicking on that link. Tits, tits, cumshot, pussy, brains, tits, cumshot.

                    I wish there was a clear line between NSFW and NSFL. Seeing a female nipple is not quite as disturbing as seeing the inside of someone's skull.

                    [–]ChefBoyAreWeFucked 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Thanks

                    [–]webhyperion 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

                    That's correct, if they don't play nice it means getting removed from google altogether which means losing revenue.

                    [–]humanlikecorvus 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    It means in the worst case to be removed from the lists shown on the German portal google.de. And google.de will show that search results are removed below the search.

                    From the lists shown by google.com (which is as usable from Germany as from everywhere else and which I and many other people from Germany use anyway) it won't be removed.

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                        [–]mi7ck 27ポイント28ポイント  (34子コメント)

                        While I, as a minor from Germany, do understand that the BPjM is supposedly trying to protect young people from stuff on /r/watchpeopledie. In the end the subreddit will be blocked for every 18+ person as well so instead of protecting the youth, they're censoring everyone, correct?

                        [–]Rigolachs 31ポイント32ポイント  (18子コメント)

                        Meh, German youth protection is out of hands anyway.

                        Examples:

                        Rambo (2008) was only shown in a cut version in Germany (1 minute cut) even though it was rated 18+ and cinemas have to verify the age. Still it was considered too "dangerous". In Austria: 16+ uncut.

                        Walking Dead season 4 3 aired in over 100 countries simultaneous. Only one to censor? Germany. Even though it aired in pay tv where you have to enter a pin code each time you want to see adult material.

                        Sleeping Dogs Definite Edition is unplayable on the PC because Square Enix thinks they have to block it for law reasons (which is their interpretation but oh well).

                        I could go on. It pisses me off.

                        edit: Got the Walking Dead season wrong.

                        [–]wobinidan 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

                        I never go to /r/watchpeopledie because I see enough people dying on /r/wtf.

                        Hear that, German government? I see people dying on /r/wtf. Maybe you should ask reddit to block that. Oh wait, then there might be a shitstorm.

                        [–]metal_fever 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        The death metal band Cannibal Corpse was also banned from selling it's CD's in Germany because of the lyrics, try understanding the lyrics when you listen to it.

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                          [–]seewolfmdk 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          Might be paragraph 131 StGb, not youth safety reasons?

                          [–]niceworkthere 9ポイント10ポイント  (11子コメント)

                          What really bugs me about this: /r/holocaust is apparently ok despite being moderated by deniers since reddit's inception.

                          Sollte glauben die Behörden wüssten zumindest Prioritäten zu setzen.

                          [–]oldandgreat 3ポイント4ポイント  (10子コメント)

                          Holocaust Leugnung ist nur verfolgbar wenn es in Deutschland auf deutschen Servern passiert. Da können sie nichts machen.

                          [–]seewolfmdk 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

                          Anfragen könnten sie ebenso auch dafür bei reddit. Hätte reddit /r/watchpeopledid nicht selbst blockiert, hätte Deutschland auch keine weitere Handhabf gehabt.

                          [–]niceworkthere 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

                          Jein. Illegal und strafbar innerhalb Deutschlands ist was über ausländische Server gemacht wird genauso. Bei Anfragen an ausländische Hoster und ISP fehlt u. U. aber tatsächlich die Möglichkeit der Sanktion.

                          Ist bei r/watchpeopledie aber nicht anders.

                          [–]webhyperion 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          See my other post: https://www.reddit.com/r/ChillingEffects/comments/3gw9g1/20150813_ip_blocks/cu22onq

                          Generally the BPjM does not censor directly.

                          [–]GamerGateFan 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          Critics accuse the BPjM of de facto censorship, paternalism, and restricting the freedom of speech and of the press on the following grounds:

                          • After a work has been indexed, in practice it also becomes more difficult for adults to get access to it, as indexed works must not be advertised and may be sold by mail order only under strict conditions. The sale of such works is therefore often not profitable, and the work thus disappears from the market.
                          • Journalists may carry out self-censorship and choose not to mention the work to avoid possible legal trouble.
                          • Germany is the only western democracy with an organization like the BPjM. The rationales for earlier decisions to add works to the index are, in retrospect, incomprehensible reactions to moral panics. An example of this is the controversy about the computer game River Raid.

                          [–]IMissSplashyPants 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          Think of the children

                          [–]Patzfatz 5ポイント6ポイント  (12子コメント)

                          you don't know that. Could be a case of Volksverhetzung (IS recruitment videos)

                          [–]webhyperion 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          Not likely, they could just censor that specific post(s). Like they did with the russian post. Why then censor the whole subreddit? Doesn't make sense.

                          //edit

                          You are however correct that I don't know it exactly, so I slightly rephrased my post above.

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                              [–]CaptainDogeSparrow 16ポイント17ポイント  (8子コメント)

                              I was expecting Reddit admins to have balls, not take requests from those countries, let them block Reddit and then sit while watching the outrage from their citizens calling out their government.

                              But I guess monetization is more important to them.

                              [–]pWHOp_ 46ポイント47ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              I was expecting Reddit admins to have balls

                              LOLOLOL

                              [–]rr159 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

                              They officially rescinded their "free speech for everyone" policy a while ago. No reason to expect them to stand up against governments.

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                                [–]RMFN 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                International law is whoever has the biggest stick.

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                                  [–]alternateme 56ポイント57ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                  You should be using HTTP Error 451 Unavailable for Legal Reasons and it should contain the reason.

                                  451 Unavailable For Legal Reasons

                                  This status code indicates that the server is subject to legal restrictions which prevent it servicing the request. Since such restrictions typically apply to all operators in a legal jurisdiction, the server in question may or may not be an origin server. The restrictions typically most directly affect the operations of ISPs and search engines. Responses using this status code SHOULD include an explanation, in the response body, of the details of the legal restriction; which legal authority is imposing it, and what class of resources it applies to.

                                  [–]ViolinTakers 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  They have no real published legal grounds for their capitulation, they'd prefer not to draw attention to that fact.

                                  [–]h0uz3_ 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  451 is not a coincidence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit_451

                                  [–]T_Dumbsford 42ポイント43ポイント  (43子コメント)

                                  Can I ask what "local laws" /r/watchpeopledie violated in Germany?

                                  [–]seewolfmdk 16ポイント17ポイント  (23子コメント)

                                  Maybe paragraph 131 StGB.

                                  [–]brombaer3000 6ポイント7ポイント  (22子コメント)

                                  §131

                                  I am embarrassed to live in a country that has laws like this one. This practically makes me a criminal e.g. just for possessing some Metal music whose lyrics glorify violence against humans (I reckon about half of all Metal lyrics glorify violence in some way).

                                  This law is an obvious violation of freedom of thought and freedom of speech and has no right to exist.

                                  [–]seewolfmdk 19ポイント20ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                  Inform yourself. Music is art. Art isn't touched by this paragraph.

                                  [–]brombaer3000 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                  Thanks for the info! There may be a potential problem with the definition of art, though. This is very subjective. Police and lawyers can just claim that something is not art, thus making this law applicable, can't they? (granted that they are convincing enough).
                                  Especially art containing excessive violence is often regarded "not art / just 'violence porn'" by more conservative people, who could be the judges in such cases. Where do you draw the line?

                                  (Again, I am not very informed in this matter, so I would be happy to be corrected if I am misunderstanding something/everything.)

                                  [–]seewolfmdk 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                  Not really.. If someone tried to ban a song because of the promition of violence, it wouldn't work. However there are possibilities to ban songs, but afaik it can just be funded on youth safety reasons (which means the ban doesn't work for adults) and in case the songs are volksverhetzend.

                                  [–]brombaer3000 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                  Do you have a source that this law does not apply to art? I can't find it right now, but you sound like you know what you are talking about.

                                  [–]seewolfmdk 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                  It's in Art. 5 GG, Kunstfreiheit.

                                  I am no expert in this, either. I just know that it's not as easy to ban certain things.

                                  [–]LittleOmid 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  Yet some albums from cannibal corpse were banned a couple years ago.

                                  [–]brombaer3000 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  Kunstfreiheit (freedom of art) is only a positive statement that grants you the right to express yourself freely if your expression does not violate another law.
                                  Quoting from the Grundgesetz:

                                  (2) Diese Rechte finden ihre Schranken in den Vorschriften der allgemeinen Gesetze, den gesetzlichen Bestimmungen zum Schutze der Jugend und in dem Recht der persönlichen Ehre.

                                  (3) Kunst und Wissenschaft, Forschung und Lehre sind frei. Die Freiheit der Lehre entbindet nicht von der Treue zur Verfassung.

                                  This says that you are granted the freedom of expressing yourself only in cases where the law does not state otherwise, and in this case, it does.

                                  [–]redinzane 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                  The interpretation is usually left to the BPjM, the Federal Examination Agency for youth endangering Media.

                                  [–]RobbyLee 13ポイント14ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                  " (2) Absatz 1 gilt nicht, wenn die Handlung der Berichterstattung über Vorgänge des Zeitgeschehens oder der Geschichte dient."

                                  I think that means you can still watch gruesome videos, talk about and share it, song as it's some kind of news, like current ISIS beheadings, the deaths in China and stuff like that.

                                  [–]kaalaaaa 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#p1265

                                  English translation of the law in question.

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                                    [–]shitterbug 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                    None that make sense. But it's really just to shield minors from possibly harmful content. Total fucking bullshit. At least goregrish, documentingreality, and the like are still fully accessible.

                                    [–]T_Dumbsford 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    So stupid. The majority of content on the sub comes from livelink and imgur. It's not like it still can't be accessed.

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                                      [–]IAmAnAnonymousCoward 2ポイント3ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                      My bet would be it has to do with Article 1 of their Grundgesetz.

                                      [–]alayne_ 7ポイント8ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                      "Human dignity is inviolable", if anyone is wondering.

                                      [–]Bohzee 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      i feel violated in my dignity as an adult to be not able to watch adult videos.

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                                        [–]escalat0r 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        No, likely not since this is a basic law and not an 'operative' law.

                                        [–]kushangaza 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        The Grundgesetz is not directly enforcable by government agencies. That's what all those other laws are for.

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                                          [–]IamTheBeardedOne 39ポイント40ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                          So...essentially if other governments step in and make similar requests, Reddit becomes a different website for different countries. At what point do we no longer have 1 Reddit website, but many versions of Reddit, each one with it's own flavor (Reddit RU, Reddit US, Reddit BR)?

                                          It just seems like this is the start of a very slippery slope, and it's going to get a lot uglier before all is said and done.

                                          [–]MrEManFTW 61ポイント62ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                          What happens when Russia wants to ban any of the "Gay Propaganda" subs?

                                          [–]IAmAnAnonymousCoward 57ポイント58ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                          They will be blocked. Next question!

                                          [–]F0X0 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                          Oh no, I can see where this is going. Any opposition to anything can be just made invisible for the target audience. This will harm the functionality of reddit greatly.

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                                            [–]maripool 88ポイント89ポイント  (38子コメント)

                                            As a result, /r/watchpeopledie was blocked from German IPs ..... in order to preserve the existence of reddit in those regions.

                                            Germany does not ban any websites. And reddit has no offices in the EU - unlike Google or Facebook - , right? So why care?

                                            The most to happen would be that Germany would ask Google to de-list reddit from its search results (EDIT: De-listing from search results is our only method of censorship so far).

                                            [–]Greedeater 64ポイント65ポイント  (33子コメント)

                                            Mod at WPD here. Drunk, and pissed off at this.

                                            Myself and fellow mods at WPD have had a few messages from Deutschen users asking for a 'please explain' with zero word from admins as to the actual situation.

                                            Hitting them up now, watch this space.

                                            [–]westborn 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            What did you expect, it's not like Reddit pledged to improve communications with the mods recently...

                                            [–]I-fuck-horses 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                            Solution to advertise:

                                            Enter any blocked URL here:

                                            https://proxy-nl.hide.me/

                                            You find such websites by googling for "online proxy". It's much more convenient than having to change the browser settings, even if there are browser add-ons for that.

                                            [–]T_Dumbsford 20ポイント21ポイント  (16子コメント)

                                            This. It would be helpful if we knew what to tell our subscribers. They have a legitimate question/concern and we have nothing to offer them.

                                            [–]Greedeater 7ポイント8ポイント  (14子コメント)

                                            And we can't put it in the sub cos they won't be able to see it....

                                            [–]webhyperion 19ポイント20ポイント  (13子コメント)

                                            It works with reddit.com/r/+watchpeopledie or over the mobile site. m.reddit.com/r/watchpeopledie

                                            Source: am German

                                            [–]wobinidan 7ポイント8ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                            reddit.com/r/+watchpeopledie

                                            I felt like a super hacker when I copy-pasted that into my url bar. And it works. Amazing.

                                            [–]IMissSplashyPants 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            But you can't tell the subscribers that don't know that how to do it.

                                            [–]I-fuck-horses 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            Or google "online proxy". Keyword is "Online" - you get a website where you enter the blocked URL, no need to change browser settings. Easy, convenient.

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                                                [–]BikerMouseFromMars 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                .... they banned a country from your subreddit without telling you why? oO

                                                [–]IMissSplashyPants 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                смотреть Reddit умереть

                                                [–]Greedeater 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                Этот подпункт умрет, я умру вместе с ним.

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                                                  [–]IAmAnAnonymousCoward 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                  The most to happen would be that Germany would ask Google to de-list reddit from its search results.

                                                  Which would lead to less revenue for Reddit.

                                                  [–]maripool 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                  Perhaps. But I would think reddit's success comes from word of mouth or media articles and not by high rankings in search engine results. Meaning: They could perhaps care less.

                                                  [–]l23r 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                  The only thing trying to block that subreddit did was make more people aware of it. I had no clue it existed until earlier today... Good going R****t!

                                                  [–]farbenwvnder 94ポイント95ポイント  (18子コメント)

                                                  Was really hoping for more info on the german one. You don't operate in Germany, you don't have to take down sites for them. If they want it they'll have to do it themselves like Russia threatened and eventually did for a short bit. Only Germany wouldn't block entire reddit over this

                                                  [–]Lord_Doener 68ポイント69ポイント  (11子コメント)

                                                  Only Germany wouldn't block entire reddit over this

                                                  My (german) goverment woudn't even know how to do that...

                                                  [–]BikerMouseFromMars 89ポイント90ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                  #neuland

                                                  [–]wobinidan 14ポイント15ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                  Maybe we could just remove the 'R' key from everyone's keyboard, then they won't be able to go to that bad reddit site anymore.

                                                  [–]weedmonkey 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                  More like fascism with a friendly face....

                                                  inb4 "what about the children?!"

                                                  absolutely digusting

                                                  [–]Varkolac 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  They aren't even allowed to do that.

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                                                    [–]notoriousmoonman 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                    Reddit admins must think governments enforce laws the way they enforce site rules, so they don't want to risk losing the German user base.

                                                    [–]Rigolachs 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                    Man, imagine Germany would block every site that violates the site rules here. Half the internet would be gone. And that half would be just the porn...

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                                                      [–]yhelothere 14ポイント15ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                      As a German, I'm shocked. Don't know if I should get angry at Reddit or my government now. Maybe both. Fucking assholes.

                                                      Are there any cheap US proxies you guys could recommend?

                                                      Edit: Use that link: https://www.reddit.com/r/gore+watchpeopledie

                                                      [–]matrisylva 28ポイント29ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                      Would be interesting to know on which grounds /r/watchpeopledie was banned. Was it requested by the Bundesprüfstelle für jugendgefährdende Medien (BPjM)?

                                                      [–]SirCaladin 12ポイント13ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                      ... which would be kinda half-assed considering other 'questionable' subreddits are still reachable without problems.

                                                      [–]maripool 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      Well, they gotta start somewhere. Be patient. :-/

                                                      And now the door is open for all sorts of requests for local bans, not only from Germany.

                                                      [–]alayne_ 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                      It's more probable that it was banned on the grounds of paragraph §131 StGB. That would explain why picsofdeadkids or cutefemalecorpses (don't ask me why I know these subreddits) for example weren't banned, as they only show well, dead people and no violence itself.

                                                      [–]RobbyLee 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      Why on earth would anybody want to look at pictures of dead people, especially kids. I mean, I can understand spacedicks, they post obscene stuff, including gore and sex, sometimes both at the same time, like people on 4chan.

                                                      But solely pictures of dead children in a whole subreddit. That's disgusting. I found my line. This is the line I will not cross, I do not want pictures of dead children in my brain.

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                                                          [–]Lut0x 14ポイント15ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                          Are you kidding me??

                                                          Edit: /r/petgirls was also banned (a bdsm sub). It seems like the mods have no overview of the whole Situation.

                                                          [–]BikerMouseFromMars 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                          it is one thing to block a country from accessing a subreddit. It's debatable if that's a good idea or not. But who the fuck thinks that it is a good idea to show an HTTP Error instead of a meaningfull message? Why not show a message that due to a takedown request of [insert organisation here] you don't allow access from the country?

                                                          [–]AgentOmega 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                          I wasn't aware that Reddit.com was headquartered in both Russia and Germany at the same time so that they were required to comply which such valid requests.

                                                          they should move to the US, maybe someplace like San Francisco where the law says they don't need to comply

                                                          [–]person594 18ポイント19ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                          Russian law prohibits the promotion of homosexuality. Would reddit block such content from Russian IP addresses if it were requested by the Russian government?

                                                          [–]l23r 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                          I'm really hoping Putin asks Reddit to block LGBT content from Russia.

                                                          munches on popcorn

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                                                            [–]guebja 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            Absolutely disgusting.

                                                            The biggest obstacle to censorship is public opinion, and for public opinion to be mobilized, it needs to be obvious what's happening.

                                                            If popular sites refuse to comply with demands for censorship, then governments are forced to take obvious, highly visible, unpopular and deeply inconvenient measures to enforce it. That has a chance to mobilize public opinion, and thus provides governments with a disincentive against censorship.

                                                            But if sites simply cooperate, then it becomes easy for governments to inconspicuously enforce censorship with most of the population having little idea of what's going on. That makes censorship more convenient and attractive to governments because there's little chance of there ever being any significant backlash, and will ultimately lead to an increase in censorship.

                                                            In other words, by complying with censorship requests without any legal need to do so, you're actively contributing to the rise of further censorship.

                                                            And beyond that, having established that you're willing to help countries enforce their censorship policies, many more such requests are sure to follow.

                                                            [–]kushangaza 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                            We will work to find ways to make this process more transparent

                                                            That sounds like an empty phrase when you are telling us nearly nothing. Legal requests from which authorities, regarding which local laws? People in this thread are making good guesses, but we shouldn't have to guess if you want to make this transparent.

                                                            [–]Craftkorb 24ポイント25ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            This is censorship in its pure form. Fuck you Gov. Fuck you Reddit for complying.

                                                            [–]pWHOp_ 18ポイント19ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                            will there be "valid legal requests" which you refuse to comply with? or is the new policy to roll over on command?

                                                            [–]glyxbaer 38ポイント39ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                            You're kidding right? I'm honestly really really pissed of right now.. I don't frequent that sub, nor do I ever intend to.. but outright censoring it in Germany? With what "valid legal request"? Do you have any information other than that?

                                                            I am actually really pissed of by that. What are the next subreddits you're going to censor in Germany because of that?

                                                            [–]rotorfan 21ポイント22ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            Very good work reddit, you let countrys that have nothing to do with you censor reddit ... pretty strange things happen at reddit in the last weeks, this is one of them!

                                                            [–]Calimore 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            I am sorry Reddit but this does not suffice. Who was asking for that block and where is the legal basis for it? Do you host your servers in Germany?

                                                            At least make this information public so that people that have to live under censorship may do something against it...

                                                            [–]Panzerlurch 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            Man, that's some BS post.. You just repeated what we already know..

                                                            Who was this "authorized entity" and based on what laws was this ban demanded? Is it about the entire sub or was it one specific post? Why was wpd and petgirls banned, but not similar other subs?

                                                            [–]TotesMessenger 21ポイント22ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                            I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

                                                            If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)

                                                            [–]doubleunplussed 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            Haha, /r/watchredditdie.

                                                            Subreddit created:2015-08-14 (1 day)

                                                            Clever.

                                                            [–]BertBrecht 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            Oh, please reverse this bullshit. What the fuck?

                                                            [–]28DansLater 14ポイント15ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                            Thank God! Now the people of Russia and Germany are safe from harm! It's all rainbows and unicorns for them now.

                                                            [–]_DasDingo_ 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                            I am fairly sure there are no rainbows for Russians

                                                            [–]antihexe 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            This is wrong. It's standard practice in the tech world, but I still think it's wrong.

                                                            You should not be complying with foreign legal requests. Don't do their censorship dirty work.

                                                            [–]gwswk 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            Shouldn't it be enough to have the per subreddit 18+ warning? That's after all what porn sites etc have too and they are unrestricted in Germany.

                                                            [–]phycologist 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            Reddit has a pretty reliable censorsbip infrastructure, it seems.

                                                            [–]pwnies_gonna_pwn 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            in order to preserve the existence of reddit in those regions

                                                            i call bullshit regarding germany. there is no legal way for the state to make reddit disappear in germany.

                                                            [–]lolonaut 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            It would have been completely sufficient if you added an "Internet Age Classification"-label 18+ to the subreddit, if it's for youth protection. But if it is about §131, then it's about criminal law, and you should have told them that german criminal law doesn't apply to you.

                                                            [–]meatspin27 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            Who requested this (which government agencies)? Which laws were said to be violated? Did you put up a fight (if so what did you do to try and stop it)? What happens when governments ask you to take stuff down because it makes them look bad? These are all questions that need answering!

                                                            [–]Klathmon 8ポイント9ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                            Why was an entire sub blocked in one case, and just a post in another?

                                                            [–]Rigolachs 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                            I suppose because the whole concept of the sub violates German laws.

                                                            [–]SkaveRat 5ポイント6ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                            arguably. But even if: reddit is not hosted in germany. And germany has no legal way to block reddit in any way (even if they really would like to)

                                                            [–]Rigolachs 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                            The BPjM indexes websites and then requests google.de to not show them in search queries. If they put the whole of reddit.com on the index, no reddit site would show up on google.de. And that's quite the problem.

                                                            That's most likely the reasoning behind it. Chilling effects at their finest.

                                                            [–]Vik1ng 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                            And that's quite the problem.

                                                            Reddit is pretty much the last page that I know that relies on google.

                                                            [–]Flaiware 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            For you personally maybe.

                                                            But reddit shows up a lot if you google various things. I'm sure reddit gets a lot of hits from google.

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                                                              [–]maripool 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              Because we Germans like our censorship efficiently. /s

                                                              [–]Enshag 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              but if we receive a valid request from an authorized entity

                                                              Who was that mysterious German entity?

                                                              [–]Godzilla0815 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              and next week they ban /r/Music from Germany....

                                                              [–]rsocfan 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                              Maybe you should at least place some info on how to bypass censorship instead of non-informative looking-like-server-error 403 page? It's not a violation of Russian nor German law. I can help you with Russian-language page.

                                                              [–]IMissSplashyPants 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                              That's a great idea.

                                                              You should suggest it at /r/ideasfortheadmins there is already a suggestion to return a 451 error instead of a 403.

                                                              [–]deKay89 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              What the hell /u/spez ? Show us that "valid" request.

                                                              [–]internetperson0180 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              Yo reddit you don't have to comply with any demands from the german government because they can't block the site like the russians did

                                                              [–]IAmAnAnonymousCoward 11ポイント12ポイント  (16子コメント)

                                                              I'm really surprised the Germans went after /r/watchpeopledie first and not some Nazi stuff, but likely that's just the beginning.

                                                              [–]Hubinator 3ポイント4ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                                              Nazi stuff is pretty much okay on the internet, as long as a German citizen isn't posting it to glorify the Nazis.

                                                              [–]udontneedme 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              Bravo Reddit , continue like that ! Soon you will become history !!!!

                                                              [–]IMissSplashyPants 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              Shameful.

                                                              http://bits.are.notabug.com

                                                              http://blogoscoped.com/archive/2007-05-07-n78.html

                                                              Were you surprised when Google announced they enter China, with all the censorship compromises that brings?

                                                              Yes, I think it was quite disappointing. I wasn’t as surprised as many commentators, but I wasn’t very happy about it.

                                                              The old Google would have said “We don’t compromise on free speech” and started investing in software like Tor so that people in China could reach whatever web sites they pleased.

                                                              Now they’ve also added a self-censored Google Maps search, image search, books search and so on... and the censorship in some of these is very implicit (e.g. they don’t even add international publishers to the book search on Google.cn). What do you think is the right reaction from people to online censorship?

                                                              I think all censorship should be deplored. My position is that bits are not a bug – that we should create communications technologies that allow people to send whatever they like to each other. And when people put their thumbs on the scale and try to say what can and can’t be sent, we should fight back – both politically through protest and technologically through software like Tor. (Tor is a program that allows for completely anonymous Internet use, by routing your traffic through dozens of other machines.)

                                                              But most technology makers today seem to go a different route. They compromise, and they might defend this compromise by saying it will bring greater freedom in the long run. What do you say to this argument?

                                                              How is compromising supposed to bring greater freedom in the long run? That’s like saying “I’m going to beat you up now so that you don’t have to be hit as much in the long run.” The right answer is to stop beating people up.

                                                              [–]Muaddibisme 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                              How does a US company receive a valid legal request from Russia?

                                                              If those countries don't want that content the they can block it. Or, rather, try miserably and fail since circumventing such content blocking is very easy to do.

                                                              If you're going to continue to take these sorts of censorship actions (and the several recent ones that we all know about) then at least stand up and openly say that you don't give a shit about free speech or individual rights to choose their own content.

                                                              [–]IMissSplashyPants 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              at least stand up and openly say that you don't give a shit about free speech or individual rights to choose their own content.

                                                              /u/spez kind of already did:

                                                              Neither Alexis nor I created reddit to be a bastion of free speech

                                                              https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/3dautm/content_policy_update_ama_thursday_july_16th_1pm/

                                                              [–]vbde 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                              Were these requests for the whole subreddit or just a specific post?

                                                              If they were for just one post, that would mean you would also ban / ip block /r/funny, /r/all/, /r/whatelsesomelegislationrequests, for just one post...

                                                              [–]Streichholzschachtel 6ポイント7ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                              In Germany the whole /r/watchpeopledie subreddit is not reachable.

                                                              This is what it looks like for us.

                                                              [–]vbde 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                              I am also German.

                                                              The question for me is if a subreddit gets censored / blocked because of one post or of the ideas that it represents.

                                                              [–]IAmAnAnonymousCoward 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              Russia demanded the removal of one post, Germany wanted the whole subreddit gone.

                                                              [–]einfachKarl 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                              Thank "god" I'm in Austria. :D

                                                              [–]l23r 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                              Add a plus, like this: /r/+watchpeopledie

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                                                                [–]_DasDingo_ 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                We will work to find ways to make this process more transparent

                                                                Could you tell me which one of my fucking officials I should thank for that shit?

                                                                [–]Rat-Tat-Tat-Tat 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                Reddit is being a little bitch.

                                                                [–]ImAKidImASquid 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                Or just allow them to block it themselves...

                                                                [–]IAmAnAnonymousCoward 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                Germany doesn't even block websites.

                                                                [–]Hubinator 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                And that's the stupid thing about it: The worst that could happen is that /r/Watchpeopledie doesn't show up on Google in Germany. No websites have been banned at all.

                                                                [–]Fenrir2401 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                All those people in an uproar should know 2 things imo:

                                                                1. German law views violence kind of like the US views sex and nuditiy: Extremly restricted and prone to be censored. E.g. movies or games are banned for violence here or cut. But it's not illegal to pocess stuff like that, it's "only" illegal to sell it. I bought F.E.A.R. 2 at Amazon UK and they shiped it to Germany - no problem.

                                                                2. German laws/censorship habbits got WAY laxer in the past couple years. Stuff that was banned back in the '90s is now free access and movies, which would have been cut back then are now released uncut.

                                                                So while it's still an issue, things are moving in the right direction imo.

                                                                [–]Darji8114 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                You still can not buy these old games on platforms like steam for example. Censorship in Video games in Germany is ridiculous. You can not buy one Zombie killing game here. Dying light is just one example for PC. Half Life Soldiers were replaced with robots etc.... And then let us not start about WW2 games even South park was heavily cut while there was no problem with the south-park movie.

                                                                As an adult German I am heavily restricted through censorship and It is really annoying.

                                                                [–]Leandros99 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                Most likely a BPjM request, it's not allowed to advertise this, hence the removal.

                                                                I'm pretty sure about it, due to the fact that I can still access single posts (example: First person view of explosive death - TianJin explosion http://reddit.com/r/watchpeopledie/comments/3gtww1/first_person_view_of_explosive_death_tianjin/).

                                                                [–]ordinary-people 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                this is bullshit

                                                                [–]Nachtkater 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                Fun thing is - if they hadn't banned it, I had probably never learned that such a sub existed...

                                                                It's not like using a proxy was such a hard thing.

                                                                [–][deleted] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                this is it. I'm done with reddit. I don't even feel the need to visit /r/watchpeopledie but this is just a bullshit excuse and filtering subs by geo-ip is a whole new level of fuck up. kthxbye

                                                                [–]Merari01 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                So first you're all hot and bothered about SOPA and now you just bow to whatever any petty little nation demands of you?

                                                                Mmkay.

                                                                [–]dGlitch 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                As far as I know a simple page with

                                                                "Only persons over 18 may enter. Press this button to ensure that you are 18+ and enter this subreddit"

                                                                is enough to bypass such a "Youth Endangering Content"-claim by german authorities.

                                                                But reddit is just surrendering ... /r/WatchRedditDie

                                                                [–]pinnickfan 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                Reddit is getting worse. Go tell the Germans to fuck themselves.

                                                                [–]Darji8114 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                As a German I find this absolutely disgusting. I never went to these places but this kind of censorship is utter bullshit. How can the EU allow such a censorship?

                                                                [–]arcticblue 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                I'll save you guys the effort and close down my sub for you with a redirect to Voat. This isn't the Reddit I signed up for so many years ago. Even though my sub doesn't have any objectionable content, I can't support this caving in to foreign government requests. Grow a spine.

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