3115
3116

Lives matter (imgur.com)

Loud_law が 投稿

並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A
あなたは単独のコメントのスレッドを見ています。

残りのコメントをみる →

[–]fade_like_a_sigh 64ポイント65ポイント  (24子コメント)

Social studies have shown that any time you form an organisation or movement around one specific group of people, it predisposes followers to alienate anyone not in that group, going back to tribal instincts. "My group is good, people not in my group are bad".

In this case, this would suggest Black Lives Matter is doing far more to champion racist black people than it is to advance the cause. The same is true of feminism and men's rights activism where people who subscribe to one belief almost always discriminate against the other.

If you want to make an equality movement, it has to be about equality. Targeting it on advancing the rights of any one specific group creates a discriminatory environment that does exactly what Black Lives Matter has been doing. I don't know of any good that group has done so far, but I've seen plenty of examples of its members being racist and making themselves and the group as a whole look like fools.

[–]boxofcookies101 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Tbh additing a too to the end of that hashtag would disperse any of the alienation. Better fit the agenda of being a victim and evoke sympathy from the masses.

[–]jtj313 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

What would be the alternative? Making groups with ambiguous demographics about even more ambiguous issues?

[–]TheIcelander [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

All I know is my gut says maybe

[–]iaglia [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Occupy Wall Street brah, total hit

[–]jtj313 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

All I want is a catch-all movement which doesn't actively cause any specific group to feel pressure:

People In Disagreement with Some Things.

[–]beatsbyandre [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Have your special interest groups, but recognize extremism can happen and take steps to prevent it.

[–]AnusAnusAnusHole -5ポイント-4ポイント  (2子コメント)

We're going ignore the part that shows that when it's a goal that both are trying to achieve, they work together.....

Black lives matter isn't, "I'm going to take resources from you". It's is, I'm going to make the resources equal for everyone, since you know, it hasn't been b/c of racism.

The framing of that conversation has always been an all lives matter thing, where it's only been "oh why do only black lives matter?"

[–]ShrimpSandwich1 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

The whole argument is flawed though because if the "movement" is really about "getting equal resources" then you might as well disband because there will always be someone who has more than you or your group.

Don't you realize that? That is how our system was created. Is it 'fair' maybe not but it gives every person from birth the same chance of becoming something. Sure some people have a harder path in achieving that but that's not an excuse to just give up and burn your city down.

And before you say the system is systematically racist, has any person of color ever started from poverty and become rich or famous? The answer is yes. So there can't be this vast conspiracy to hold all people of color back when people of color are actually pulling themselves out of poverty, or whatever situation they are in, and making something of themselves. That's the whole idea of USA, make something of yourself. It's basically the entire foundation of our country from the earliest settlers to the CEOs of today.

[–]AnusAnusAnusHole -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Your argument is "well life isn't fair."

coool.

And then follow it up with

"that person did it, why can't they"

.....which isn't the argument I'm trying to make.

[–]Spriq -2ポイント-1ポイント  (7子コメント)

If you want to make an equality movement, it has to be about equality. Targeting it on advancing the rights of any one specific group creates a discriminatory environment that does exactly what Black Lives Matter has been doing.

Huh? Are you saying that the movements for gay rights in the 80s and 90s, civil rights in the 60s, and Women's suffrage movements would have been more successful in establishing equality if they focussed their efforts not on their group but on everyone?

Like this?

Women in the 1910s: "Women should have the right to vote! Oh, and dudes should be continue to be allowed to vote!"

Black people in the 60s: "Black people should be allowed to sit anywhere on any bus, to use the same water fountains, to send kids to the same schools as white people! Oh, and white people should totally be allowed to sit in the back of the bus if they want to and send their kids to inferior schools, too!

Gay people: Stop thinking of our sexual orientation as a disease! Let us serve in the army, and let us get married! Oh, and, straightness isn't a disease either. Straight people should totally be continued to be allowed to marry and serve in the army!

Seems pretty ridiculous, doesn't it? But that's what you're proposing! Stop pretending that you don't understand this: when one group is being discriminated against, the removal of that discrimination is what creates equality.

As to 'Black lives matter', let me quote CNN political commentator Donna Brazile:

Of course ALL lives matter. But there is no serious question about the value of the life of a young white girl or boy. Sadly, there is a serious question -- between gang violence and this police violence -- about the value of the life of a young black girl or boy. So those who are experiencing the pain and trauma of the black experience in this country don't want their rallying cry to be watered down with a generic feel-good catchphrase.

Let me try and give you an example:

Imagine you're a freshman in high school again. You and some of your friends are members of an after-school computer club. Let's say you do some coding in the computer lab after school every day. But after a while some asshole seniors take note of your little club and they begin waiting for you guys in the parking lot most days, harassing you and your friends and eventually even beating on you. It's always the same group of guys and as far as you can see they're assholes to pretty much anyone, but they only beat on you. For a while you take this in stride but when the harassment doesn't let up you decide to go talk to the principal about it. The principal listens to your complaint and once you finish your account he looks at you and says. "I hear you. This needs to stop. But let's not focus on your situation. Instead we need to stop all violence everywhere."

Do you feel like that principal is taking your plight seriously?

[–]clowntears 4ポイント5ポイント  (6子コメント)

The problem with each of your examples and with every other example any blm supporter gives is that it suggests only black people get beaten and killed by police which is blatantly false

American police aren't some nazi black genocide group that your Facebook friends and CNN would like you to believe. Absolutely there are plenty of racist police, just as there are plenty of racist people in our country. Unfortunately you can't make it illegal to be racist.

So instead of running around yelling at white people that blacklivesmatter, which seems to imply we think they don't, the movement needs to be more focused on making an actual difference. Body cameras on police, youth programs in big cities, locking up the black gangs that kill thousands of black kids every fucking year.

Stop blaming all white people. Stop claiming white privelidge. Stop posting that stupid picture about "white moderates" being the biggest hindrance to black people. Start making as big of a fuss about every black kid killed in downtown Baltimore as you do about the occasional kid killed by police (gonna be spending a lot of time in baltimore). Start fucking voting for politicians who will further your cause. Instead of yelling at Bernie sanders about fucking Michael brown the criminal for 5 minutes ask him about body cameras and his education policies.

As long as blm continues to focus on blaming white people and racism instead of things that could actually make a difference like police regulation and youth education then they will continue to alienate themselves and be perceived as a fucking joke

[–]Spriq 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Of course they're not the only ones, but let's not pretend that their treatment at the hands of police is the same as the treatment of white people:

'Black Americans killed by police twice as likely to be unarmed as white people killed by police'

DOJ report: 'The harms of Ferguson’s police and court practices are borne disproportionately by African Americans, and there is evidence that this is due in part to intentional discrimination on the basis of race.'

It's not just the police, either: The Urban Institute estimates that white-on-black homicides in states with Stand Your Ground laws are 354% more likely to be ruled justifiable than white-on-white ones.

[–]blueguy2 -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

Correct, but what race gets beat disproportionately is the question?

[–]clowntears 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Have you ever seen the crime statistics based on race? When they commit that much more violent crime they're going to be treated more dangerously by police

[–]blueguy2 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Yes I have. Doesn't change the fact that black people are the ones getting killed. That's the point of black lives matter, blacks keep getting killed and they want to stop and solve it (whether it's by police or by others). They are trying to do something about the black lives being taken, but no one is going to listen because apparently two people hurt some feelings. America had always has always been racist, more specifically strongly anti-black

[–]clowntears [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Yes a country as diverse as America has plenty of racists. That is consistent among diverse countries around the world. That won't change so stop trying to fight "racism" as if it is quantifiable. The movement needs to target specific laws or goals

[–]blueguy2 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The problem is that our whole society is built on cheap and poor labor, with the blacks being on the bottom of the totem pole, it causes a blur and mix of classism and racism. When the police force makes ridiculous amounts of money of the poor, when prisons make ridiculous amounts of money of the poor. This isn't just an issue of just sticking down/passing laws..this is built into our society, those laws are going to be hard to change. There is going to be a lot of pushback of people who don't want these changes to happen.

[–]Mulsanne -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh so now reddit gives a shit about the "soft" sciences? Soon as they can use it to support a shitty point, it's fair game.