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WikiLeaks whistleblower Chelsea Manning faces "indefinite solitary confinement" for charges including possession of Vanity Fair Caitlyn Jenner issue (theguardian.com)

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[–]Senecatwo 214ポイント215ポイント  (63子コメント)

"Medicine misuse" for having an expired tube of toothpaste. Typical army bullshit. If somebody in charge has it in for you, they'll make up reasons to mess with you.

[–]evanFFTF[S] 77ポイント78ポイント  (54子コメント)

Yeah, the toothpaste part is just over the top. The list of books and magazines they took is perhaps the most alarming part, though. Seems to point to blatant attempt to target Manning's freedom of thought and expression

[–]georgie411 18ポイント19ポイント  (9子コメント)

Unfortunately you have pretty much zero right to have books and magazines in prison. All you legally have a right to really is papers directly related to your case. It's quite common for prisoners to be punished by moving them into a cell where they can't have books or anything else beyond court papers and maybe a single religious text. The stuff about expired toothpaste sounds more like some weird hardass military mentality than civilian prisons would have.

Prison conditions vary relatively widely in the US. Some prisons let you have a TV,CD Player, and radio in your cell while others won't let you have any of that. There's some European prisons where inmates can have freaking Xboxes in your cell.

[–]hideisalive 10ポイント11ポイント  (6子コメント)

Well then make sure she doesn't have magazines then.

Indefinite solitary confinement isn't reasonable. It needs to at least be a defined term of confinement.

[–]pyr666 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

solitary in general is regarded as unethical in several countries.

[–]edjiojr 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Unfortunately you have pretty much zero right to have books and magazines in prison.

I think that someone's sanity would be in danger, looking at four blank walls all day long without something to read.

[–]Topyka2 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, and slavery is also legal in prison. That doesn't mean that it's okay, and it doesn't mean the people in charge aren't massive assholes.

[–]aksid 42ポイント43ポイント  (8子コメント)

no such thing as freedom in prison.

[–]NeonDisease 10ポイント11ポイント  (6子コメント)

you can confine my body, but you can never confine my thoughts.

[–]DrDougExeter 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

today's never is tomorrow's technology

[–]Skrp 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes you can. Through medication or surgery, or brainwashing techniques.

Some examples:

Give someone this

http://www.businessinsider.com/drugs-alter-prisoners-perception-of-time-2014-8

Then administer a powerful hallucinogen

Make sure they have a bad trip.

Give people an intense panic sensation / dread, and making sure it lasts a millennium from their point of view. Think that would fuck with your ability to think, a little bit? It's extremely illegal, but so is kidnapping and torturing people, which is being done already.

[–]o0flatCircle0o 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Have fun thinking while we blast Horrible music at you 24 hours a day. Welcome to gitmo.

[–]Kosh27 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

But I like Skinny Puppy...

[–]Tuokaerf10 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's no such thing as freedom in the military, and especially so in a military prison.

[–]lunartree -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honestly, you've got to be a moron to join the military these days.

[–]o0flatCircle0o -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

How much you wanna bet that corporations have worked a deal with the prison to force inmates to buy new products based on a set interval? Murcia.

コメントをもっと表示する (4 返事)

    [–]thebeardhat 35ポイント36ポイント  (5子コメント)

    I've heard the argument that Edward Snowden is a coward for leaving the country and refusing to do things "the right way" by facing the system and going through the proper channels. I'm not sure that would have been a good idea.

    [–]PingasPanther 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

    A lot of military people were vocal about having him executed, so it was for the best.

    [–]dramatrauma 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Fuck no. He needed to GTFO of here. Our govt would have dumped him in a black site somewhere and he would never have been heard from again.

    [–]MarshLurker [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    Those who say he should have stayed would never have had the courage to do what he did in the first place, so fuck them.

    [–]mytightpants -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Vodka and piroshki for him for a while..

    [–]WhompWump 22ポイント23ポイント  (4子コメント)

    this is so goddamn ridiculous

    [–]WolveyMcWolverine 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Welcome to the Army. My roommate once reeked to high hell, had piles of dirty laundry, and empty food containers all over the place.

    My side, spotless. Except for some Motrin on my table. "What if a pregnant woman broke into your barracks room and overdosed on this. You'd be guilty for leaving it unsecured. Leaving medicine unsecured is against UCMJ."

    [–]pBhKYV3GcMjL7zhW 18ポイント19ポイント  (7子コメント)

    This article and the headline here are not very clear.

    1. The recitation of the charges against Mannings actions are not (apparently) confirmed by the military, but rather, come from Manning's supporters. Take them with a grain of salt. They are portrayed in the most favorable light.

    2. Facing "indefinite solitary confinement" means that that is (apparently) the maximum punishment. It is not the only option, nor even the most likely.

    3. The article does not point out the differences between the military justice system and the criminal justice system. Saying "I want my lawyer" certainly could be insubordination in the military justice system.

    [–]fargin_bastiges 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Soldiers always have access to JAG. Commanders can't legally stop that. That being said, I dont know what rights a Soldier already in jail has, but I can tell you it's fewer than in a civilian jail.

    [–]pBhKYV3GcMjL7zhW 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Soldoers always have access to JAG. Commanders can't legally stop that.

    Do you have a cite? I don't think this is true.

    [–]fargin_bastiges 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    (yeesh, mobile really fucks with my spelling)

    Source: I'm an Army officer and Army Brat. It's in every other AFN commercial that Soldiers and their Families have free and unlimited access to JAG and it's part of every Article 15 and court martial I've ever been a part of. Also you can just google "soldier and family access to legal advice" and see page after page about active duty benefits.

    I could try and find actual UCMJ citations but I'm on mobile and that's more effort than I'm willing to put in (unless you're a Soldier who needs legal advice; then I'll tell you to go up to your brigade legal office, or try another JAG office on post if that's unfeasible for some reason).

    Edit: to be clear, I mean that a Soldier getting court martialed always gets access to a JAG or can get his own civilian lawer (but he'll have to pay for that). Any other time you or your spouse can always schedule a time to talk to a JAG for any reason.

    [–]pBhKYV3GcMjL7zhW 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I think there is a difference between what you are saying, and the civilian understanding of "you can always get a lawyer".

    As far as I know, under the UCMJ, there is no right to a JAG or a civilian lawyer "on demand" once your Art. 15 is over and you have started your confinement.

    Certainly, there is no general right to remain silent or have civilian counsel in this situation, and demanding a lawyer in the way that Pfc. Manning did (allegedly) could be insubordination and/or disrespectful in tone or manner. There is a larger issue of civilian counsel being a sort of shield for Pfc. Manning, and part of that is due to publicity. I don't have an opinion on this, but it's certainly not something that the UCMJ has to endorse, so far as I can see.

    I asked about a cite out of curiosity.

    [–]fargin_bastiges 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That's a good point. Yeah, I have no idda what happens after confinement.

    [–]AdmiralAtLaw [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    Soldiers always have access to JAG.

    They most certainly do not.

    Soldiers have a right to an attorney during a court martial according to Section 838(b). Other than that, they're generally shit out of luck.

    [–]fargin_bastiges [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    There's absolutely nothing stopping them from making an appointment with their JAG at any time, training and availability permitting. The legal office is there to help Soldiers.

    [–]HaikuberryFin 31ポイント32ポイント  (27子コメント)

    Can you imagine

    being that stranded, alone-

    then... the brig- for life?

    [–]NeonDisease 10ポイント11ポイント  (10子コメント)

    I would kill myself.

    [–]HandsomeJackass 18ポイント19ポイント  (9子コメント)

    They won't let you.

    [–]DrDougExeter 6ポイント7ポイント  (8子コメント)

    You know, they say with enough practice you can enter trance like states through meditation, and you can go anywhere/do anything you want. Like dreaming. I'd get really good at doing that.

    [–]georgie411 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Manning is pretty young so unless she kills herself she'll most likely get out in her 60s. There's probably also a somewhat decent chance her sentence will get reduced or commuted at some point.

    [–]danman11 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Manning could get out after eight years.

    [–]ReverendEarthwormJim 41ポイント42ポイント  (38子コメント)

    Crimes against humanity.

    Love my country, but the government frequently fails to live up to our ideals. We should do better. Starting with a full pardons for Manning and Snowden.

    [–]Lucifer_L 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

    but the government frequently fails to live up to our ideals

    Now there's a mild, practically tripping over yourself bending backwards way of putting it.

    [–]941mk 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

    USA dont give 2 shits about crimes against humanity.

    [–]ReverendEarthwormJim -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

    We did back in 1946. In 2001 an idiot made torture our national policy, but it is still a crime against humanity.

    [–]scud_missile [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    We nuked a militarily insignificant area in Japan, and invaded the Philippines before and committed plenty of crimes against humanity if there, so way before 1946.

    [–]MarshLurker [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    There's been worse stuff in between. But yeah, it seems to have become more common now. Human rights violations and violations of the US Constitution seem to have become more frequent and much more public too. At least in the past they'd try to hide it and cover it up, which implies they feared the public's reaction. These days it's all out in the open with not even half-assed attempts to deny it.

    [–]D4rthR3van [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Love my country

    Why? You do realise that when Yellowstone cooks off you'll have ticked all the boxes;

    Huge military industrial complex?

    Vast brainwashed population of expendable drones?

    Terror and repression meted out at random?

    Race based caste system?

    Ruined ecosystem?

    And finally a fucking active volcano right in the middle?

    Face it dude, you live in Mordor.

    [–]janethefish 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

    ITT: People who think this is somehow her fault.

    This is obvious bullshit to fuck with her. Even if you aren't taken aback by the "expired toothpaste", the reference to a request for a lawyer makes it damn well clear these are absurd.

    [–]viveislife 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

    My only issues with it is if you are going to say a guy can't have certain things in jail, why are you not charging the people who smuggle it in?

    [–]janethefish 28ポイント29ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Because they don't actually give a fuck, they just want to fuck with Manning.

    [–]jdw101 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Honestly sounds like a fate much worse than death to me.

    [–]RollerRagerMD 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Pants-on-head retarded, how's the IT industry in Antarctica these days? I'm fixing to get away from everything.

    [–]rddman 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    indefinite solitary confinement

    How is that not cruel and unusual?

    [–]8milestyle 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    the govt is torturing some kid to death

    [–]moxy801 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'm ashamed of how poorly President Obama and his DOJ have done in regards to whistle-blowers.

    [–]fuckyoumartinez [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    I follow her twitter page... so tweeting, okay... magazine, not?

    [–]guitarist_classical [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    what kind of "secret documents" does the US have, anyway? Our military is a tool for those that want to abuse power. They deserve to be "exposed."

    [–]buzzlite 0ポイント1ポイント  (24子コメント)

    The government is really making an example of this dude. First the gender bender skullfuckery, now infinite solitary. We get it, mess with U.S. secret shenanigans and get chopped and screwed.

    [–]superspeck 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Unless you're a higher up. Petraus or Clinton. Then you get probation or no one cares.

    [–]_Insert_Name_ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    What happened in regards to her gender?

    [–]MaxFreedomMoussa 0ポイント1ポイント  (20子コメント)

    Meanwhile Jonathan Pollard, who stole 1.6 million targeted documents and covertly gave them to Israel is being released this year. Yet this man who leaked information to the American people, even with the military admitting no deaths were caused by his leaks, will rot there for the rest of his life being psychologically tortured.

    [–]lordderplythethird 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    When Pollard was sentenced, the length of a Federal life sentence was 30 years. As long as there were no major infractions in jail, you were released after 30. The length has since been changed, but because Pollard was sentenced before that change, he was grandfathered under it. 2016 is 30 years in jail for Pollard, meaning he served the maximum amount of time he could, under the laws present at the time....

    Fuck and I tired of this ignorant fucking comment

    [–]Ryand-Smith 0ポイント1ポイント  (17子コメント)

    He was in jail for 30 years, that is forever time.

    [–]MaxFreedomMoussa -5ポイント-4ポイント  (16子コメント)

    That's half Manning's sentence, and in any case he requested and has been granted his Israeli citizenship so he'll have his hero's welcome in Israel soon enough.

    [–]Sympathy_for_the_FO 1ポイント2ポイント  (15子コメント)

    That's half Manning's sentence,...

    Bullshit.

    Manning was sentenced to 35 years with the possibility of parole after 8 years. He's paying the price for being a traitor.

    [–]Jive_Ass_Turkey_Talk 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    But but but, Israel is so helpless, and god and... Stuff

    [–]lispm 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    The prison and justice system in the US is seriously fucked up.

    Recently some people from the US toured prisons in Germany...

    https://www.themarshallproject.org/tag/how-germany-does-prison

    Germany had to learn democracy with help of the US, maybe it's a good time to give something back.

    [–]specofdust [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Germany had to learn democracy with help of the US, maybe it's a good time to give something back.

    W0t? That's ridiculous.

    [–]Codoro -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It's funny to see this story right next to the Clinton e-mail one.

    [–]one_in_the_mind [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Manning was a self-righteous ass when she knowingly violated the regulations governing the handling and distribution of classified information. Further, Manning released it with the intent of doing harm to the government of the United States, the military, and our international relations. Manning didn't do it to be a whistleblower, he/she did it to be some wannabe folk hero rebel. There are legal means out there to be a real whistleblower, Manning instead opted for the wanton release of info vital to national security. Manning is a traitor and it's really hard for me to feel bad about his situation, it's not like he/she didn't know how shitty the brig was.

    [–]Bettendorf [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    DUDE can't follow simple rules? No way!

    [–]bbelt16ag -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Even in military prison there are things they can punish you with.