全 40 件のコメント

[–]smewchies 8ポイント9ポイント  (30子コメント)

Clearly you have been good mods, but all of this sounds like personal issues between you guys and not really user based.

Edited to add: all of your responses have been helpful and clarifying.

[–]Jollysaur[M] 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Nose has been holding off on getting us more mods for a long time. We have been drowning in modwork with no extra hands to get on deck for any reason.

And he has been constantly undermining the decisions of half the the mod team.

Not to mention the whole sexism problem of him insisting that using gendered slurs directed at men weren't something we were allowed to remove under our rules. The dick issue.

These are just a few of the complaints we have been trying to bring up with him over the last 6 months, but he has refused to listen and has now decided to demod us all.

We can't work under someone who constantly treats us badly and makes it more difficult for us to do our job.

The only reason the users haven't noticed this mess is because we have spent stupid amounts of energy trying our hardest to save our sub and work around the difficulties /u/Nosefetish kept giving us.

[–]smewchies 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for responding. All of this sounds more like reasons a user may want to follow you to another sub.

[–]PaganBacon 4ポイント5ポイント  (10子コメント)

While it doesn't seem like it has affected the user base, then, if true, it is really worrying that the head moderator blankly exclude white cis males as being potential moderators, and do not treat trans and non-binary moderators equally.

In particular, considering that female moderators are supposedly being treated favourably, one might worry that the sub could turn into a den of "whiteknighting". A place that brands itself on being free from prejudice and a safe place for all, but in actually is prejudicial itself and not a safe place for everyone. In fact, a lot of users outside the subreddit already see the /r/creepypms in that way (Though, I personally think that is a matter of people being prejudicial. Still, it is worth mentioning.)

All this said, I am not sure this has been handled in the right way (by any party in the drama). Though, of course, this is speaking as someone who doesn't know the details, or even have an inkling of knowledge as what actually occurred behind the scenes.

[–]IronTitsMcGuintyOn-fire pants are a dead giveaway[M] 5ポイント6ポイント  (7子コメント)

Yeah, this was handled awkwardly at best. For months we've been trying to get answers and solutions and we got frustrated. Hell, I quit when the Nose told me he micromanages the men who mod and wouldn't be adding more men as mods because we were supposed to be a space for women. It was rash and out of shock, I guess.

In the end, Nose doubled down and blatantly said our input is appreciated but unnecessary and he would continue to run the sub with prejudice. I guess we all got really frustrated by the fact that his disrespect for trans people and for men were going to continue.

I know this is rocky and sudden and clearly we were not prepared, but please stick with us. We're gonna do good things here. :)

[–]PaganBacon 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

Eurgh, that sounds really bad :x It sounds like he really bought into the idea of "the minority can't be prejudicial".

As for how to handle his issue, I don't know what is best for you to do. My gut reaction is to urge you to collect actual examples of Nose acting in the ways you complain about - so it isn't just a matter of "he said - they said". Whether that is actually a good idea, I don't know, it might make the issue explode in an unforseen way, but I guess without it, the user base as a whole won't know what has actually happened. An alternative tactic would be to stand back, and if your allegations are true simply let /r/creepypms destroy itself with poor (one-sided) moderation. I really don't know.

[–]IronTitsMcGuintyOn-fire pants are a dead giveaway[M] 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Please stand by for examples. I'm just editting out first names and usernames of uninvolved users now :D

Album 1: In which I quit because /u/NoseFetish states that he is more critical of men who mod. This also references how he misgenders /u/throwthathataway.

Album 2: This album is my formal resignation in which /u/NoseFetish tries to backpedal because his messages have been made public. I admit I get a little upset and I get a bit...errrr... vulgar. And to be fair, he did post a meta, two weeks later, which the mod team asked for more men as mods because they are underrepresented, as well as better communication. And three weeks later he responded saying what amounts to "Thanks but no thanks."

...I'd submit those screencaps but I got banned from the meta. :P

[–]UpsidedownTreetrunkʘ‿ʘ how about no[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

The problem is we don't want them destroyed. We love the community, we love the sub. That's why we're upset- it's fallen into this shitty state that all of us have tried to keep it from becoming. We want it how it was 18 months ago. We want the discussion (behind the scenes), we want our opinions taken seriously. We want the safe space it used to be.

[–]PaganBacon 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sorry, poor choice of words, I guess a better way to phrase it would be to say something along the lines of 'let /r/creepypms alienate its userbase'. That said, I think being open about the specific issues (with concrete examples) is the better option. I simply listed the passive approach as the direct approach might also turn really ugly.

[–]IronTitsMcGuintyOn-fire pants are a dead giveaway 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Also, YES! The "Minority can't be prejudicial" is exactly what we're going through.

[–]UpsidedownTreetrunkʘ‿ʘ how about no[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not gonna lie. That happened a few times.

We tried to handle this more peacefully. We've been trying to discuss issues like these for months. We were ignored, the head mod would go quiet for ages at a time. Our requests and nominations for more mods were completely ignored. We've tried, we've tried, we've tried. The horse has been beaten as much as it can. This was our final option. None of us wanted it handled this way. We were silenced within an hour, making it clear our request was denied. So, here we are.

[–]throwthathatawayDrake and the Raccoons 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can attest to what /u/UpsidedownTreetrunk said. In fact, /u/IronTitsMcGuinty and myself originally quit quietly due to what we felt were irreconcilable differences after giving /u/nosefetish a solid lump of time to respond to our concerns, during which he was active elsewhere, but ignored our queries. And that is after he delayed bring new mods on board for a solid 4 months because he was too chicken to tell us that he wouldn't be modding someone we all recommended as an excellent mod because he was a cis white-passing guy (never mind that he's not even white) and then proceeded to come out with a set of restrictive rules on how we should behave.

[–]UpsidedownTreetrunkʘ‿ʘ how about no[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

The head mod blatantly disregarding their own rules doesn't impact the users?

He's shown he has no regard for calling people by their preferred pronouns, and with trans* users, that creates a problem. When he says he refuses to add male mods, displaying sexism, that creates a problem. Women are placed on a pedestal, and even though he may say "men can be creeped on/women can be creepers", his actions speak that he doesn't care. Body shaming isn't a priority unless it's directed at women, same with gendered slurs. The environment that creates is toxic, and does indeed affect users.

[–]smewchies 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

The average user? No, it doesn't affect me. I see the posts in my feed, and I see the mod team works hard to keep stuff in line. Then I move on to the next shiny thing that will interest me.

You, as mods, spend a lot more time in this subreddit, watching for infractions and keeping things calm. You see the little things that I don't, because you are doing your job well. If I don't know these things are happening, it is not affecting me.

[–]IronTitsMcGuintyOn-fire pants are a dead giveaway[M] 4ポイント5ポイント  (14子コメント)

I can see where you're coming from, really. I know I had and other mods had worked really hard to keep it away from the users. But in the end, instituting sexist policies may not be visible but they do damage and ring of hypocrisy. Its hard to stand by that, and it would certainly affect the users eventually.

[–]smewchies 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for adding context.

[–]_softie -1ポイント0ポイント  (12子コメント)

Agreed. I, too, would constantly feel uneasy with policies that wreak of hypocrisy. Can't we just have a safe, sexism-free environment where we can collectively ridicule and humiliate lonely men on the internet?

[–]IronTitsMcGuintyOn-fire pants are a dead giveaway 2ポイント3ポイント  (11子コメント)

Its not about humiliating lonely men. Its about shaming creepy people, and gender should not be a factor. That's a pretty big deal for all of us, that assumptions like that are not acceptable.

[–]_softie -1ポイント0ポイント  (10子コメント)

Gotcha. Collectively ridiculing lonely men AND women. Equality is great.

[–]IronTitsMcGuintyOn-fire pants are a dead giveaway 2ポイント3ポイント  (9子コメント)

I'm sorry, I just don't see what creepiness has to do with loneliness.

[–]_softie -2ポイント-1ポイント  (8子コメント)

I think loneliness breeds creepiness, or something like that. I don't know, it doesn't matter. As long as I still get to shame them. Like this one guy who called my body "insane" on OkCupid. What an incredibly ableist and equally creepy thing to say. I actually have over 2500 screenshots of other creepy things because I need to document every single time someone does this to me specifically for this subreddit. And then I need to post them one by one, regardless of how creepy that person actually was. Doesn't matter, they're fucking creeps! You agree with me, right? And you're not allowed to disagree with me. Give me my karma.

[–]IronTitsMcGuintyOn-fire pants are a dead giveaway 3ポイント4ポイント  (7子コメント)

I'm sorry you see it that way. Objectification can be very annoying to some, though perhaps not to you. You're allowed to disagree, of course.

[–][削除されました]  (5子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]CannaK 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

    What might be creepy/annoying to some people might not be creepy/annoying to others. Perhaps you have a higher tolerance for what is/isn't creepy, which is perfectly fine, but it would make the content seem boring to you. What the mods can fix in the short term is the hypocrisy and whatnot. The less important aspect is the submitted content, which is perfectly fine in my opinion. And that's why rule 6 exists - if you don't think it's creepy, downvote and move on.

    [–]smewchies 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

    I just can't blindly get behind someone who says this other person is a meanie poo poo head without some proof, I guess.

    If he is doing these things, then sure I agree he is indeed the doodoo head. Otherwise, this is gossip. Probably true, but still gossip.

    I agree that this wasn't presented well, but it's early yet and I've had a couple of good responses.

    Edit: this was meant to be a reply to u/PaganBacon, not a separate comment.

    [–]IronTitsMcGuintyOn-fire pants are a dead giveaway[M] 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Give me a bit to edit first names out of the screencaps and I'll share something with you. :)

    Album 1: In which I quit because /u/NoseFetish states that he is more critical of men who mod. This also references how he misgenders /u/throwthathataway.

    Album 2: This album is my formal resignation in which /u/NoseFetish tries to backpedal because his messages have been made public. I admit I get a little upset and I get a bit...errrr... vulgar. And to be fair, he did post a meta, two weeks later, which the mod team asked for more men as mods because they are underrepresented, as well as better communication. And three weeks later he responded saying what amounts to "Thanks but no thanks."

    ...I'd submit those screencaps but I got banned from the meta. :P

    [–]UpsidedownTreetrunkʘ‿ʘ how about no[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    We tried. We were silenced. We've been trying for months and months and have been totally ignored. This was our last resort. It wasn't handled in the way any of us would like, but our only option.

    [–]PaganBacon 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Yeah, I definitely agree with you on proof being important. Otherwise it might just be a smear campaign based on personal issues. That's why I phrased myself conditionally on 'if these claims are true'. It's definitely worth remembering that, as you say, one shouldn't blindly follow this complaint. Sadly, I think we're somewhat prone to do so, as generally the underdog "whistleblowers" are more likable than "the established system".

    [–]mandas677 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

    http://imgur.com/HDiguRB http://imgur.com/7VxZTXs Those are where he admits he didn't consult, discuss, or warn us of the shutting down of the subreddit. http://imgur.com/3WlJ2De http://imgur.com/4HuwDUF Where he says he won't be modding anymore cishet white males. If a person is a good mod they're a good mod. Where he also confirms he sees this as a women's sub, not an inclusive, feminist, support sub for everyone. Women's subs have their place on reddit but I didn't sign up to mod one. I signed up to mod an inclusive sub for the harassed, anyone that has experienced harassment.

    [–]IronTitsMcGuintyOn-fire pants are a dead giveaway 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Ugh, and this bothers me so much, because the comment he's defending was

    The day I found out I could block straight men from writing to me on OK Cupid was a happy, joyous day. They seriously respect no amount of warning that you are not interested.

    And he tears into us for "responding to banned individuals" and yet he white knights me with personal attacks at a man and his family. I get it, trolls suck, but that white knighting was out of line, creepy, and just grotesque personal attacks.

    [–]mandas677 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    One main catalyst for me was shutting down the subreddit in support of fatpeoplehate getting banned. Now it all looked nice from the outside but the mods found out about the shutdown the same time the users did by people messaging us in modmail. He never said a word. Beyond that it was right after 2 mods had resigned and he kept saying emotions were too high, so while he wasn't explicit that he did it as a timeout for the other mods, it sure as hell felt like one. I'm getting screenshots together where he does admit that he never consulted or said anything to us prior to shutting us down.

    [–]TexasVendee 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Are you (the disaffected mods) going to start an alternative sub?

    [–]IronTitsMcGuintyOn-fire pants are a dead giveaway[M] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    We'd like to. We know it's a slow process and it will take a lot of time to build up (subs aren't built overnight), but we're trying for something more transparent and designed as a safe space for everyone.

    The fact is, CreepyPMs isn't just a great sub, it's a necessary one. With online harassment being commonplace, this sense of community is super important. But I can't abide hypocrisy and I guess a lot of other mods felt the same, so here we are.

    [–]UpsidedownTreetrunkʘ‿ʘ how about no[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This is it.