全 194 件のコメント

[–]JonasTribbiani 369ポイント370ポイント  (69子コメント)

Complete your research and you'll learn that later in his life he became a very devout Muslim and wrote poetry along this line against those who doubted the existence of God.

[–]MoralisDemandred 37ポイント38ポイント  (0子コメント)

From what I read (on the wiki at least) it looks like he believes in god, just not religion.

[–]Footstompshonie 168ポイント169ポイント  (35子コメント)

Shhhhh you're going to ruin the /r/atheism circle jerk.

[–]critfist 46ポイント47ポイント  (4子コメント)

It's not a circlejerk. This is kind of interesting. It's not a prose you see from the time.

[–]Tewks44 60ポイント61ポイント  (3子コメント)

Shhhh, you're ruining the /r/atheism circlejerk circlejerk.

[–]MrMadcap 35ポイント36ポイント  (2子コメント)

*anti-r/atheism circlejerk.

[–]ObiShaneKenobi 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Psh, reddit in a nutshell

[–]boble64 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This group is bad, look at this fact.

Reddit in a nutshell

[–]xisytenin 15ポイント16ポイント  (29子コメント)

DAE think that religion is dumb?

[–]Zintao -4ポイント-3ポイント  (16子コメント)

Actually, religion is pretty fucking smart. It's the believing without evidence part that is... Well not so smart, yet I can see why people could find comfort in it.

[–]Traunt [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

A small part of my religious validity is Pascal's Wager, but yes, it does give me hope and comfort during the not-so-great times in my life, giving me strength and allowing me push through hardship.

[–]Kollektiv [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Pascal's Wager has an issue though because it only takes into account that there is a single faith.

What you actually have is a situation where you chose one faith among the thousands of existing ones and hope it's the right one.

That is if we describe the situation like a mathematical game as Pascal does.

[–]Cake451 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

Could I get a source in this, please?

[–]JonasTribbiani [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Since you said please :) Al Maari indeed criticized religions during most of his life, which is the main reason why, in most references, you are more likely to read about his skeptic beliefs. So, and before I go on, I'm amazed to read some replies that he only turned to Islam in order to save his life and spare his family. Firstly, I wonder where these people found their references since you'll have to know a lot about Al Maari in order to find what I'm talking about (which I doubt those people do). And secondly, Al Maari simply didn't have any relatives most of his life and the guy never married (huge facepalm then!). Now back to your question. As I said before, not easy to find references for that and one has to be almost a scholar and very familiar with Al Maari's works to be aware of this. You can find some elements towards what I said in his Arabic wikipedia page which quotes some of his verses. For example, in one of his poems, you'll read: الله لا ريبَ فيه Which means: There is no doubt about Allah/God (please use any translator to translate the Arabic wikipedia page and check what I'm telling you here). Or, for example: إذا قومُنا لم يعبدوا الله وحدهُ بنُصْحٍ، فإنَّا منهمُ بُرآءُ Which says: if our people don't worship Allah on his own after we advise them to do so, then we are innocent from their deeds. Or again (this one is from another source than wikipedia): يا طالب الطب من داء تخوفه إن الطبيب الذي أبلاك بالداء (To that who seeks the science of medicine to avoid an illness he is afraid of. The true doctor is the one who is testing you with the illness) Again: أدينًُ بربٍّ واحدٍ وتَجَنُّبٍ قبيحَ المساعي (My religion is one with one God and avoiding seeking what is evil).

I hope that I answered, at least, some of your questions. I learnt about Al Maari's poetry and life in Arabic and therefore, it is difficult for me to give you references in English in such a short time. But you are free to seek knowledge on your own, based on what I stated here :)

[–]Cake451 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Thank you for your reply. Your citations, though certainly interesting, seem insufficient to prove that he was, in later life, a devout Muslim. They could be interpreted as the words of a deist- a believer in a single, yet impersonal, god. Sorry to ask, but do you have, or can you link to, anything which could be considered proof of his Islamic faith? I have looked myself, to no avail.

[–]JonasTribbiani [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

As I said, I was only giving you some elements taken from his poetry hinting to what I claimed earlier. To constitute a full proof, you have to give the full poems (so that it's not quoted out of place) and the dates of these poems relatively to his more skeptic works (that's why I said scholars are more familiar with this). As to whether he was a Muslim or a deist in general, well, you can of course study the full poems, or just refer to a bit of a verse that I stated earlier where he names God "Allah" as it is the custom in Islam, whereas in other poems, he used the word "god" (I'm aware this is not a full proof again). I really appreciate you going the full length and checking my claims or the others' rather than commenting without knowledge and based on your feelings as some trolls kept doing.

[–]RatchetPo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Allah also refers to preislamic arabian deistic god, is there any source that specifically mentions islam?

[–]bobsp [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

And? Does that detract from the legitimacy of the proposition?

[–]Dutch_X -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fucking pussy. Galileo Galilei is the man you all are looking for. He did not give a fuck.

[–]Footstompshonie 105ポイント106ポイント  (19子コメント)

This is stupid, later in his life he became religious.

It actually ironically gives MORE credence to religion seeing as he was a hardcore skeptic but changed his views over time as he learned more and developed.

This would be like doing a "TIL: President Obama was against gay marriage" when we all know eventually he changed his views and is now in full support of gay marriage.

This post isn't a lie but isn't exactly the truth either, as I said before his death Al-Ma'arri was a monotheist and believed in God, just not some of the tenants of Islam or the other organized religions. Sort of like how religion has developed today and everything isn't taken word-for-word from holy texts as it was back then.

[–]Partypants93 13ポイント14ポイント  (15子コメント)

Obama was against gay marriage at one point?? How long ago?

[–]cromagnum_android 28ポイント29ポイント  (12子コメント)

He was officially against it but no one actually believes he was personally against it. Much like no one believes he is actually religious.

[–]10097338 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's a Muslim from Kenya what are you talking about?

[–]CourageousKoala 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

I don't know a lot about Obama or U.S. politics, but I'm wondering if you could tell me some more about why some people believe he isn't religious.

[–]Kaboose666 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

There is religious and then there is "religious". He might put on a show for the masses but by and large I doubt he is particularly devote and could even be non-religious privately. The same is true for many elected officials, when asked about religion of course you say yes because otherwise you're ostracized from the start.

[–]paul_vapes 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

because he's a black man who is a liberal and christian conservatives don't see many people like that and they believe they are the only people who are christian.

[–]unquietwiki [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

He has attended both Muslim + Christian establishments; doesn't pepper his speeches with religious overtures the way the last few presidents did; and he took his time finding a church in DC to attend after becoming President.

[–]OfficerMudkip 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Lots of people believe he's religious

[–]Misspells_Stuff -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah. clearly a moozlim

[–]computer_d [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Sounds like people are telling themselves things to comfort themselves.

[–]Beat9 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's pretty difficult to know what any politician really believes.

[–]mr_poppycockmcgee -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh yeah well of my conservative family members know for a fact that he is Muslim so there's that

[–]Footstompshonie 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Since he was a politician he was against it. In 2004 he outright said he was a Christian and against same-sex marriage and continued this stance through his first election and presidency.

In 2011 he started to lessen a bit stating he was "working on it" and "evolving".

Really he's been against gay marriage the vast majority of his career and most of his presidency.

[–]Macismyname [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Just like Hillary Clinton. In 2004 she gave a big speech supporting traditional marriage values.

There is this other candidate though that was supporting marriage equality since the 70's. Good Ol Bernie Sanders.

[–]BedriddenSam 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why is it stupid? it was a great TIL when L Ron Hubbard wrote that starting a religion was a great way to control people and all that. This is too.

[–]Jolly_Hyena 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

It seems like you should look at his actual reasoning, irrelevant of whether he used to be skeptical.

[–]BlackPenGuy 44ポイント45ポイント  (19子コメント)

"TIL there was an ancient philosopher who thought religion was silly." Just like many, many other ancient philosophers we know of. Was this really TIL worthy, or were you just trying to start something?

[–]ugotamesij 15ポイント16ポイント  (6子コメント)

It panders to reddit's pro-atheist tendencies. Upvotes guaranteed.

[–]xXx420FGTNOSCOPExXx 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

It's actually funny because al-Ma'arri disavowed a bunch of his views later on in life and became a devout believer in God and Muslim.

[–]agomezian 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

"Believer in God and Muslim"

L M A O

[–]sushibowl [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

became a devout believer in God and Muslim.

Phrasing is maybe a little awkward:

became a devout (believer in God) and (Muslim).

And there's a bit of redundancy, but seems a reasonable sentence otherwise?

[–]agomezian [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

For a comment thats regurgitating info from other comments on this thread, its pretty funny. I know what he meant

[–]Tiresias3000 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I think it probably is pretty funny. It seems pretty likely that it may be at least.

[–]Tarathe [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Then you also know that comments circlejerking about reddit's atheist circlejerk are also guaranteed upvotes. Hypocrisy is fun!

[–]Atanar 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's not really a good question. Those things are identical.

[–]OfficerMudkip 2ポイント3ポイント  (7子コメント)

What are the requirements for being TIL worthy besides learning something today?

[–]BlackPenGuy 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

Well for one, the rules do state that "misleading claims" aren't allowed. This title leads us to believe that this philosopher is historically known for being a champion for atheistic thinking, although as stated elsewhere in the comments, he actually converted later in life and became an outspoken critic of atheists. And besides the rules, as I said, there are many, many philosophers who didn't like religion. This one isn't commonly known, and doesn't particularly stand out in any way. Just another faceless philosopher who had an idea that many others shared. So to me, no, this isn't really TIL worthy.

[–]OfficerMudkip [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Unremarkable garbage is posted here all the time. I don't see what makes this any different

[–]theconnorparty [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Because this is unremarkable garbage with an agenda

[–]OfficerMudkip [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Yeah, everything that has to do with atheism is part of an agenda. Reddit's userbase is ridiculous. Even if OP has an agenda, who fucking cares? Oh no, another pro-atheism post! Better get upset about it!

[–]theconnorparty [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

You asked.

[–]OfficerMudkip [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Actually I didn't

[–]theconnorparty [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Ah sorry. Well you said "I don't see the difference". Clearly you understand the difference. So why did you say it?

[–]mr_poppycockmcgee 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Definitely trying to start something. Every once in a while a TIL post does that or plays to somebody's circlejerk. 'Tis the way of the Reddit.

[–]nivekpsycic [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

"TIL anti-theists existed in the past."

Front page.

I need a break from reddit.

[–]Karl_Satan 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Maynard Keenan of tool said this at a concert almost word for word before playing the song "opiate"

Wonder if this guy had anything to do with it

[–]atla [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'd guess it have more to do with Marx...

[–]Sandvicheater 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Talk about a man with steel Cojones.

[–]TomtheWonderDog 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

Early Islam supported this notion, too.

Mecca was holy to the Arabs since before the Romans and Mohammed knew his people would always feel veneration for such a religious place so he incorporated many of the old pagan beliefs of the city into his new religion. Islam believes that all religious knowledge was handed down from their God and that Mohammed was simply the last and most honest prophet.

Despite current affairs, Muslims had a lot of respect for Christians, Jews and even Arab pagans.

[–]Atanar [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

and even Arab pagans.

Wait, what? When? The entire non-spiritual part of the qur'an is war against idolatry (i.e. paganism).

[–]DarthBowser [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

From my understanding, the Quran is referencing those who are attacking the Muslims.

[–]TomtheWonderDog [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This. So long as other faiths let them live in peace, Mohammed was very accepting. While the Rashidun were certainly very aggressive, their early wars were for primarily secular concerns.

There are even instances in Iraq and Iran after the Arabs conquered the crumbling Persian Empire of them constructing Muslim only cities (really more like forts and barracks) just outside large population centers from which they could keep the peace and collect taxes without interfering with the locals and their increasingly unappealing Zoroastrian ways. Islam has always tried to convert through example rather than force.

[–]ShortyRed -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Shhh, you're speaking too much truth. These people need their prejudiced 1- liners so they stay online all day and not make a difference in the world. Which in their case it's better for us that they just stay online and talk like a parrot.

[–]apex8888 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

If he said that today he would be jailed in many Islamic predominant nations. Or worse.

[–]Don_BobaFetticcini [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If you plan on looking at the comments now then welcome to the circlejerk.

[–]Maps_and_Ass [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Think about his statement, and tell me if you still think he's wrong.

[–]jokersleuth [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

He had a negative view on life, not just exclusively religion.

[–]OhHiGCHQ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The Islamic Golden age shows how things can change for the worse.

[–]elmarko44 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

In other words, atheism and religious cynicism has been around for centuries. You hipster atheists aren't as novel or clever as you thought...

[–]netakomega [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Al-Maʿarri held an anti-natalist view, in line with his general pessimism, suggesting that children should not be born to spare them of the pains of life.

He's my hero now. That's like me. Only, I don't necessarily think people shouldn't have children, just that I consider myself too evolved to want children, but for the savages (the masses) it might be the right thing perhaps, I don't know.

[–]YearOfTheChipmunk 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think this guy was around when the middle east was the centre of knowledge and trade for the world. They were a very forward thinking people at the time, and were pretty accepting of different religions.

Though to be honest, I'm not 100% sure this is the right time period.

[–]TotesMessenger 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

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[–]black_flag_4ever -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yesterday I discovered that Muhammad allegedly had a talking donkey. I think this al-Ma'arri might be on to something.

[–]enfiel 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

Woah, so Muhammad was like Shrek?!

[–]Tewks44 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Prophets are like onions.

[–]beard_of_ages 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's like the buzzfeed of years gone by.

[–]cool_slowbro -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Least he was right that time.

[–]Yamoner -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Religion: give me everything you have in this life, and I'll promise your next life will be better.

[–]The_mayan_warrior -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, he wasn't wrong.

[–]tanstaafl90 -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

That this was known and understood then isn't surprising. Trying to build a cohesive society from bands of people organized into clans of one form or another isn't easy. It allowed for the community to form around shared morals and philosophy. Then, as now, some choose not to believe, but that doesn't diminish it's importance for the larger mass of people then.

[–]xXx420FGTNOSCOPExXx 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

He disavowed most of his ideas later in life and became a devout religious Muslim. OP's title is misleading.

[–]haole1 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Do you have a source that confirms your statement?

[–]GoodguyGabe -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

al'Maari should be highlighted and celebrated more often. Good find OP.

[–]Dookiestain_LaFlair 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

There used to be lots of Muslims like him, or at least people that thought there were other explanations for things in life besides "Allah did it". Most of these people were killed in the 12th century.

[–]PM_ME_A_CREEPY_THING -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Funny because in his time, religion was based on pretty recent stories. Islam only begins in the 600s A.D., so to al-Ma'arri these stories were like the founding fathers' stories are to us.

[–]AlericTheDrunk 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well....some of the stories. They were waxing on about Adam, Eve, Noah and Abraham too.

[–]touchthisface -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's always one.

[–]KoolAsBlue -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Little known fact; "Al-Ma'arri" means: "One how exposes (or make naked) of things" mostly used for "expose" as in "Naked Truth"

[–]throwawayswede123 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

huh... and when you squint, his turban looks a little like a fedora....

[–]Tarathe [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Clever meme! I sure do love coming to reddit to read all these regurgitated jokes