Hello,

Without giving much detail away I am a young man who has been browsing quite a bit of the red pill and manosphere, and now have quite a good grasp of the philosophy. It still morally repels me but it makes some sense. could go into extensive detail about the science of this but it would give me away as I have a very obsessive personality.

I am looking for the blue pill perspective, bear in mind I have heard a lot of it over my time browsing and interacting with tohers. I used to have feminist sympathies but over the course of my time at uni I've had reason to feel some frustration with hypocrisy, especially of campus feminism.

Here are some of my assessments.

• I believe that the red pill is right about the existence of a 'sexual marketplace' although less socially awkward people would just call this dating, relationships and talking to the opposite/preferred sex

• I believe they are right about 'Sexual market Value' although again this is a cringey term for 'leagues', attractiveness, hotness etc. It is obvious especially in high school and uni that women treat hot, popular, successful guys differently if not downright better than they do less hot, less popular, less successful guys

• Although I very much dislike their shoddy use of evolutionary psychology or 'bio-troofs' and in all honesty I am not a scientist I'm a liberal arts student, we can't pretend that gender dimorphism is a thing. There is actually a difference between the average male and female brain. The extent to which it shapes our behaviour I cannot say, I would like to think we can both rise above it because we are more than just an amygdala and hippocampus. In any case it is obvious that there are plenty of smart, kind and successful women who have made great contributions to society, so they should have access to education and not be locked in the kitchen etc.

• I would not say there's a 'feminist conspiracy' and on paper I agree with gender equality, but I do believe that there are a lot of modern radical feminists out there who are disillusioning men from the movement. They seem to have a lot of hostility towards 'cis white males' in particular and sometimes even engage in double standards, perhaps they mean this to even the playing field but it is really just giving off anti-male vibes. In reality 'patriarchy hurts men too' so a poor white man is still fucked over by patriarchy as is a man not conforming to the masculine ideal, but nobody likes to talk about this

• I believe there are lots of laws in place which are unfair on men and not many women or even feminists in the mainstream trying to change this. I stress mainstream feminists or 'pop feminists' because I am sure that some are working behind the scenes.

• I believe the men's rights movement is unfairly satirised even though it has good intentions because of the misogynists in their ranks. They raise good points especially regarding divorce settlements and things

• I believe women can be just as shallow, selfish, cruel and manipulative as men, I also believe that some of the modern 3rd wave encourages this behaviour as being 'strong and independent'

• I believe many women, more than would let on want men to be locked into traditional gender roles even if it hurts them because of internalised misogyny, they view effeminate men as weak and can't deal with them being emotional or free to be their own person. I believe many women want strong masculine 'alpha male' types, at least when they first start dating him. To this extent 'frame' is a good idea and it is not so great to be very emotional around women i.e. 'she is not your shoulder to cry on', but in the long run this is damaging to a man's mental health and I would like to think that at least good women stop judging men for this as I get older

• I believe that there may be some sort of 'feminine imperative' at play at present, to compensate for women being screwed over by patriarchy for years. That is to say I still believe that many women expect men to 'man up' and put women and children first, to go out of their way to sacrifice themselves for others. This contrasts to pop-feminism's 'strong independent woman' and women being told they don't need to tend to men's needs. This results in men having to do things which will never be returned just to not be labeled a misogynist or bad person. I feel this is an unfair anti-male bias, it also might prevent women from growing into emotionally mature people

• For younger women especially in America and elsewhere in the western world, I do believe this is encouraging some degree of being a 'spoiled princess' with narcissistic and entitled tendencies. I don't think that every woman is like this or indulges in preferential treatment, but I won't pretend they're not there

• I have read all of No More Mr Nice Guy and I thoroughly agree with it. I think that the 'Nice Guy (™)' character presented by pop-feminism who is only nice to get in a girls pants is a caricature of these men with actual deep-seated issues, such as having a poor toxic upbringing, or being neglected by our education system and unable to learn in ways which better suited their needs. I also believe that Nice Guy ™ is used as a general shaming tactic for women who don't find these men attractive or just generally don't like them. I believe it's good to teach insecure men how to not be hurt, used, walked all over and generally put themselves first so that they have the confidence to walk from a bad relationship if necessary

• I have not yet read it but I hear good things about Mark Manson's Models. I'm not sure why the blue pill has anything against this book, in many ways it disagrees with some of the mainstream RP teachings but it's good insight from a 'purple pill' perspective into dating. I especially like when he talks about vulnerability which is not something which red pill usually commends

• This is where we run into problems. I am reading The Rational Male and I'm finding that I agree with some of that too. In particular 'Just Be Yourself' 'Just Get It' the entire section on the feminine imperative, etc. His section on 'Unplugging' is a bit silly since it basically describes insecure white knights or guys who bend over backwards to get laid and I'm not sure anyone needed a self-help manual to see why this wouldn't work.

• More on Rollo, I'm not sure if every woman engages in it but I do think 'Alpha Fucks, Beta Bucks' is an actual thing. Not as a 'sexual strategy' but just because young attractive women are more likely to be horny and want to have fun, then settle down with a good husband when a bit older and no longer wanting sex. Sometimes with 'bad boys' but generally with hot guys. I have observed this with friends. I can understand guys feeling insecure about a girlfriend or wife who's had lots of partners, especially if she seems to give off the air of having one foot in the door, but the bitterness about her 'riding the cock carousel' seems a bit much.

• I believe that Hypergamy might be real. I believe there could be evolutionary incentives, but it's probably more like social economics. the fact that when young girls and women are generally considered more attractive than boys and young men, so the latter are desperate for validation from the former whereas the former take it for granted. Again not all women but a fair few. Given this I think that even though both sexes generally pine for people above their 'league', I generally see that women are more successful at getting dates with men above their league and holding relationships. You only have to go on Tinder or online dating for a minute to see that young women have high standards and more luck getting dates

• I believe 'male disposability' is real in that generally a woman only has to look pretty to be considered valuable to society, and the state will look after her even if she's not, but a man has to work for it every day of his life and society is quite brutal to him, the state will not provide for him etc. The value of a man is also generally determined by women, and the women that men approve of, so basically if women don't like a guy then anything he does for society can be discarded as worthless and so he too becomes worthless in the yes of those around him. I believe this is a toxic expectation for men to have to strive towards

• However this then backfires if a woman does not fit the media mould for attractiveness. So this could be considered part of patriarchy. With this said I think it's more common for men to be objectified, but only to call it oppression or misogyny when women are objectified, so another double standard

• AWALT troubles me but I might go as far as to say MWALT especially again in modern America etc.

• I believe that actually women DO cheat a lot and many are good at hiding it. I think it's more common to forgive women for cheating than men too. I have even read articles on Psychology Today where it basically boils down to "if a man cheats, he is a selfish asshole. If a woman cheats, she should feel a little bit bad about herself, but let's not forget she had unmet emotional needs that her man should have took care of" I believe this is grossly unfair

• Another double standard I see is with regards to dismantling the virginity complex. Now obviously red pill saying that you're a loser beta if you can't get laid is not very healthy for a man's self esteem especially young vulnerable men who come to the red pill for help. But sometimes even feminists and I have to say lots of young women will resort at the last minute to saying that 'you're just a bitter virgin'. If a man is not defined by his sexual partner count then why is virgin an insult here?

• I think that certain types of pop-feminists or militant feminists refuse to engage with any of the red pill material. I rarely post here because quite often people use ad hominem, straw man arguments and generally below-the-belt knee-jerk reactions of hostility to any discussion of the red pill which isn't solidly against it. This has not been my experience with people who would call themselves 'blue pill' pro 'anti red pill' elsewhere and perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised today.

• Despite all this I do think there is something very sinister and almost cult like about the red pill. It seems to be damaging to both men and women, lure in vulnerable young men and make them feel insecure about being 'beta' and not fulfilling the masculine ideal. It's toxic also to women who don't fit the conventional mould of femininity or attractiveness, and obviously I despise that there are whole sections on marital rape being OK and that

• So in short I see the value of this self improvement sub, teaching men how radical feminism is a problem and how not to get hurt by bad shallow women who could use them (because some women are bad just as some men are) but the extent of the misogyny and paranoia on there is really troubling and it is in fact making me ill

Can anybody help and chip in with their perspective, and also why they think the red pill is generally bad for both men and women, and a good alternative which is actually egalitarian? Thank you

Please note I am aware of the grammatical inaccuracies in my post as well as it sounding a little young and that there is a reason for that