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Marine Winlink rig (self.amateurradio)

UncleAugie が 投稿

A little background, I am planning on sitting for my technician and general class licenses sometime around mid November if I feel ready by then. I am doing this initally for access to the winlink system while racing sailboats in the Great Lakes(chicago-mackinac, Pt huron-Mackinac, trans Superior, trans Erie) and some Offshore races(newport-bermuda). During the races access to weather data(GRIB files about 50k per) and tracking data(txt file 17k per) for the fleet. Currently we use sat phone(Texas$$$) or cell phone(spotty at best).

I would like to set up a lightweight(12v low draw) system for periodically downloading emails with these files attached. I am wondering if anyone has done something similar? Maybe a mobile setup for camping? Thanks, looking fwd to learning more as I get deeper into the hobby.

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[–]rem1473K8MD 8ポイント9ポイント  (8子コメント)

People are jumping down your throat over your specific use. What you're proposing is not illegal. It's just bad practice. It's kind of like shouting in the library. Prepare to get shhh'ed. You mentioned that you're not yet studying for your license. If you've never been in a library or don't really understand what a library is, then you don't know any better. Don't take it personally, that's the case here. Hopefully all this will become more clear to you after you have studied, passed the tests, and also spent some time in this community. You mentioned that you genuinely want to learn something new, so I take it that you're not just going to memorize the test questions. That you'll actually take the time to learn the materials. Which will make you a good operator in the future.

You also stepped on a land mine because of past abuses. There are many yacht owners that decide to use Winlink for email because they're too cheap to pay for a sat phone or other commercial services that are available. There are people out there that spend $20k/year to put fuel in a 60' yacht, and won't pay for a sat phone to keep in touch via email with the office. That's actually an illegal use, because the traffic has pecuniary interest. That doesn't sound like you, I'm simply explaining the past abuses that have caused people to be fed up with boaters in general. With many boaters abusing the system, many winlink sailors have been black listed for inappropriate use of the system.

Legitimate use is sending very small messages directly related to the operations of the boat. It's exactly like using the Marine VHF appropriately. You should not be talking about "what's for dinner" on 68, 69, 71, etc. Too often, people use these frequencies like FRS or CB. Which prevents the rest of us from using these channels for legitimate operational radio traffic. Using Winlink, you need to keep the messages very short and to the point:

I will arrive at this port at xyz date time. Everything is going well....

You don't want to be pushing attachments. It's important to learn to be a quality radio operator and learning to use the spectrum as little as possible to achieve your goals.

I would invite you to explore XM satellite weather for boaters. I have a friend that uses XM satellite weather that feeds data directly into his Garmin plotter, and it's quite excellent on the Great Lakes. In fact, it's going to be far superior to GRIB files for Great Lakes forecasts. If you do get licensed, consider using APRS on 144.39 mhz. You can use APRS for receiving current weather conditions. If you're sailing, I'd set the TX rate to 30-180 minutes so you're not tying up the APRS channel. There are plenty of Digi's and iGates in the Great Lakes Region, you should have nearly 100% coverage on the lower 4 lakes. Western Lake Superior will likely have decent coverage. I don't know about Eastern Superior. You can also send limited email and SMS messages with APRS. In the center of the lake you're going to have a great launch for getting yourself into 2 meter Digi's even if they're inland a little bit. The weather conditions are quite good and timely.

[–]AE5CP[E] [FBOM #2] 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

This mentality is what has turned APRS into a poor man's LoJack. No real useful information, it's just a great way to watch Jimbob drive to work and home every day, but what the hell, it's cheaper than paying LoJack to make sure his car isn't stolen.

[–]UncleAugie[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Have been messing with this to track boats during races as well.

[–]MyrddinWyllt[Extra][1 Land Best Land] 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Are those 50kB or 50kb? If it's kB, figure close to an hour if not more for a single GRIB file to come down. Worse if conditions are poor, and nearly impossible if the bands are busy. 300 baud, half that for half duplex, add in protocol overhead and error correction, you're in for a bad time. Even ignoring the fact that it's generally accepted that doing such things are against the spirit of being a good operator - is that data useful to you when it is at minimum an hour old? How fast does the weather on the Great Lakes change?

[–]adxW3 [E] 8ポイント9ポイント  (60子コメント)

Don't be that guy.

[–]UncleAugie[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (58子コメント)

Why? I am an amateur racer, winlink is set up for amateur use? Why is my use of the spectrum any less valid than that of someone just trying to get distance record or fill up their list of contacted countries?

[–]VAdeptKG6EYC [G] FBOM #0 7ポイント8ポイント  (21子コメント)

Because you're downloading 67k of data via a the equivalent of 300 baud modem. All during that time nobody can use that 2.8 khz of swath that you're taking up.

[–]popnfreshbroFBOM #1 [E] 7ポイント8ポイント  (5子コメント)

Because HF Winlink is like 300baud?

[–]tominabox1TX [E] FBOM 27 5ポイント6ポイント  (29子コメント)

amateur radio is not your personal email service

[–]VAdeptKG6EYC [G] FBOM #0 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Plus the fact that he's only getting his license to use Winlink. Not to 'foster international goodwill' or go experiment with radio, or even as a hobby. He's just using it to get out of paying for a commercial service for this data.

[–]tuoderKD9ECO [T] 3ポイント4ポイント  (7子コメント)

If your car broke down in front of your friend's house, then you might be able to put enough postage stamps on it that the USPS would mail it home for you, and it might be cheaper than hiring a tow truck, but your mailman will hate you.

[–]Kilocycles[E] [FBOM #4] 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

http://i.imgur.com/fkfApOb.jpg

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]array_repairmanKC9KHT [E] 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Why not use wher fax?

    [–]pmtech15 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Here you go, http://www.predictwind.com/iridium-go/ Read the comparison charts on the first page, if you can't afford a service that costs, you mentioned Texas$$$$, about the same as a shore based cell plan maybe you shouldn't be playing on the water. PredictWind meets all your requirements, low power drain, reasonable cost and you can even update your sailing blog.....legally. Depending on ham HF frequencies is a crap shoot, the other night the MUF was down in the dirt and you were lucky to get across town on anything above 40m. Do you want to spend time searching for an RMS to connect to or just punch a button to get the GRIBS?

    [–]UncleAugie[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Predict wind is shite, from someone who has used that data,

    [–]pmtech15 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Okay if you say so. Keep in mind we're on the downside of the solar cycle and HF comms are going in the dumper, be prepared for frustration with Winlink. You really need to study for the license and check out the sections on propagation to get an understanding of what this means. Good luck with whatever way you go.

    [–]TotesMessenger [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

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    [–]aquoad [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

    noisy opinions on propriety or whatever aside, I'd be surprised if winlink were fast enough to be useful for what you want. a 50kilobyte file would take so long to download the weather would be different by the time you got it. Though apparently there's a way to use it or something related over UHF/VHF which would be a lot faster, and might be an option on the great lakes? Not sure. But anyway, it's very, very slow.

    [–]UncleAugie[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    When I was informed about the speed I determined I could get my files size down to 2kb or less. Regardless a 60kb file is a forecast for 5Days on a 3hr increment. So even if it took 1hr I'm still ahead of the game.

    [–]aquoad [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    2k might be workable, actually. I've only played with it for stuff like emails but text is text. I'll leave it to other people to argue about whether it's Bad or not, but just always be careful to not transmit on top of other people's signals, and don't use the winlink stations that inexplicably chose to have their set frequencies right in the middle of where people traditionally/customarily do other stuff like JT65 or PSK, because that's just shitty.

    [–]tominabox1TX [E] FBOM 27 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

    This message serves as a notice that your post has been REGULATED by the Fine Business Old Man International Regulation Division. Enjoy your day.

    [–]hamsterdave[E]lmer -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

    OP, you've just discovered that Winlink gets a really bad rap in ham radio. I'm sorry that this occurred the way it did, and I'd remind everyone that, if you're going to make a criticism, be constructive.

    Constructive criticism is helpful. Criticism with no constructive input is also referred to as "being a dick". Don't be a dick.

    This bad reaction is partially knee-jerk because some really shady shit went down WRT winlink and regulation about 6 or 7 years ago, and partially a result of some fundamental misunderstandings regarding how winlink functions overall that have persisted following the aforementioned shady shit.

    There was an attempt made by the ARRL to influence the FCC to change how Part 97 handled Winlink and similar 'robot' stations like Pactor II/III to give them a considerable amount of free reign over the HF bands, and those robots had already earned a nasty reputation for stomping all over other stations on HF. It was revealed that members of the ARRL leadership had considerable conflicts of interest, and there was little or no large-scale input sought by the ARRL prior to launching this campaign, so a Category 5 Shit Storm ensued. There was a lot of butthurt on both sides, and a lot of bitterness has persisted.

    Now, the interference complaints were largely a result of people either not knowing how to properly operate their winlink stations, or not giving a shit that they weren't operating them in a considerate manner. It was probably mostly the former, but after the aforementioned underhanded BS, most hams automatically default to figuring any Winlink user is a self-entitled jerk, and you get what you just experienced as a result.

    I don't know a tremendous amount about winlink on the user end, so I can't tell you what 'proper operation' really looks like in regards to nitty gritty settings, but I do know it is capable of being utilized in a responsible manner, and it is currently used in such a manner by a number of emcomm groups as well as plenty of private users. I can also assure you that receiving weather reports when other sources are overly expensive or unavailable is most definitely within the scope of ham radio, so long as you aren't using them for a money making venture.

    Ignore the stupid butthurt you might encounter (but listen to valid criticism and suggestions), do your research, operate responsibly, and you'll be fine.

    I'd like to apologize for your less than friendly reception, but the admonition goes for you as well:

    Remember kids. Don't be a dick.

    EDIT: Changed some wording and removed my moderator flair to make it more objective, since OP may misconstrue my post.

    [–]UncleAugie[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Thanks, attempting not to ba a dick is sometimes a struggle when the Internet lynch mob sees a target. I wish your email was the first I had gotten, it leaves me much more at ease with the community of Hams than the other responses I have gotten.

    [–]hamsterdave[E]lmer 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You waded in to the deep end, you made some assumptions, and when those assumptions were challenged, you reacted poorly. That was something akin to kicking a nest of fire ants.

    I would encourage you, right now, to look at the rules on the side bar and clean up your posts accordingly, or I'll be forced to.

    Some of the folks you're tangling with are among the most knowledgeable hams on the internet, and they have a reputation for being very welcoming to newbies. Just keep in mind that you are entering a hobby that has probably one of the most cohesive and established social systems of any hobby you will ever encounter, and fashion your expectations accordingly.

    This social network has been around for 105 years.

    [–]VAdeptKG6EYC [G] FBOM #0 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    And on behalf of the moderating team here, and the hobby at large, I'd like to apologize for your less than friendly reception. Remember kids. Don't be a dick.

    1. Post to sub asking for advice for something you know nothing about
    2. When hams who have been in the hobby for a while say "dont do this" and give pretty good reasons why this is bad, argue with them about legaleese and regulations prohibiting said activity, for a hobby you dont know anything about.
    3. Call everyone whiny and elitist.
    4. ???
    5. Profit!

    For the record, we arent "kids". Second fact its better that he learn this NOW before spending the time/effort to get his ticket/gear before he realizes that winlink is complete ass for what he's going to do, or have some OM/OO nail him to the cross for doing what he wants to do. Emails, harassment, QRM'ing, etc. Not to mention having the bands be so shitty he can't get anything and just wasted money/time.

    He came here for advice, made his post sound like all he wanted his ticket for was free shit, and he got dogpiled (because who hasn't gotten hosed by a winlink station?). If I went to a boating forum with something socially unacceptable to boaters, then ARGUED with them about showing me the legal code saying I cant do it, I'd be shown the door. It was less of "Oh shit, can you explain to me what the issue is, I didnt know there was one" and more of "Well it doesnt say in the rules I cant do it, you can all piss off you elitist bastards"

    [–]hamsterdave[E]lmer 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I won't defend /u/UncleAugie for his later devolution in to name calling and the like. That's unacceptable.

    However, I expect more than "Don't do that, lol" from those of us who know enough to make a meaningful contribution, and you're not just teaching OP. You're speaking to an audience of at least 3,000 people that visit this sub every day.

    Had he gotten something with technical merit at some point before 3 hours in to the discussion, perhaps this entire fuckarow could have been avoided.

    Or, even if OP had reacted in the same way, you could have come out looking like a saint, instead of just one more person in the pit, slinging mud.